Two years ago I made the switch from regular Winchester Supremes to Winchester XR.
Pattern density increased a lot with the XRs and I bough several boxes of them.
Here is where my problem started.
Last year I shot a bird at 30 yards. I shoot, the bird does a black flip, and runs like 10 yards and folds up. I go pick it up and move it to take a picture and it pops back up and runs off and I have to shoot it another time to kill it.
Fast forward to Kansas last week. I have a bird come into 30 yards again. I shoot him and he just hits the dirt and starts flopping. I run up there and he pops up, I shoot again, he rolls, as I try to get up there again he pops up and runs off.
My pattern is pretty darn good and I can/have rolled birds at 50 yards. For example the next afternoon I shot a longbeard @ 45 yards and just swiss cheesed his face.
I called Winchester and explained my story to them and they were pretty snoody to me saying that they aren't there shooting with me so they don't what to say.
I will be changing ammunition, but still can't figure out why I would have this problem.
I have found it to be the most consistent on the pattern board of any factory load available and lethal on turkeys. If they made XR-7's or 7.5's, it would be incredible!!! If a turkey flips, I think it is a body shot.
Whole pattern was in his head.
Different lot #'s, maybe? I don't know. I experience weird things like that every once-in-a-while, but every time I go back and double check my patterns, they look just fine. I chalk it up to my pounding heart and the adrenaline rush affecting the shot. My knee ain't very steady. ;)
I have had nothing but good luck with Winchester XR's so far. I do check my pattern every spring and they are still loading the pattern sheet up!
Quote from: gatrapper on May 12, 2011, 11:53:35 AM
Whole pattern was in his head.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you had to shoot one again and the other one ran off, how do you know the whole pattern was in the head? Lead kills them easy at those ranges it should be over with XR?? You have had some good experiences with them and know what they can do. Were the shells from the same box?
Just like you I switched from Win HV to XR when they come out, but now I'm shooting Hevi - 7's for higher pellet count. I didn't have any bad experiences with XR's, but that doesn't mean there's not some bad ones out there.
This seems like the pattern is hitting the head fully, doesn't it?
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/0501000959.jpg)
What about another?
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/Screenshot2010-03-28at112010PM.png)
I would say to check the gun on paper with some junk shells at 50 feet. Try a few shots to see if it hit same spot. Then try the gun with the tk load. I think it was something off in left field that happen that you have over looked. That shell in any gun with about any choke at 30 yards should be DOA. Check everything out before you buy new shells or buy anything. May be just something easy to fix.
I've done all of that. My pattern is still good, but what it seems like is the pellets aren't penetrating deep enough. I may have 25 hits in the head, but it seems that the majority of them are just under the skin.
It's not the plane, but the pilot. :happy0064: :lol:
It only takes a little wiggle here or wobble t :z-guntootsmiley:here to make a bad shot.
I missed a standing, head erect gobbler at 40 yards this year. I have killed well over a hundred mature gobblers and everyone excites me!!!
It's not the plane, but the pilot.
I've killed birds @ 50 yards with XR 2oz #5's but don't know if I could do it every time. The problem with them is not killing power it's pattern density, which shouldn't be an issue at 30yds. I switched over to Hevi 2.25oz 6's and then again to Hevi 2.25oz 7's and have had great success with both.
Did I over look what kind of gun this is. I ask this because I have saw this with buck shot before.
lol @ you being sure that the pattern was centered on the head of the one that ran off.....really?
and the one you recovered, if you shot him a second time, don't you think THATS when you might have hit his head?
my buddie just smoked a beauty this morning with xr at 50 yards.
Quote from: knotheadedfool on May 12, 2011, 02:59:08 PM
lol @ you being sure that the pattern was centered on the head of the one that ran off.....really?
and the one you recovered, if you shot him a second time, don't you think THATS when you might have hit his head?
2nd shot was a body shot. How do I know? Because I shot him at about 8 ft and blew a hole threw him.
Thanks for the comment.
I havent had any issues with a winchester shell . If they are 3" 6s send them to me and Ill send you two boxes of Hevi 13 2oz 6s.
I prefer winchester XR over everything else. I have killed about 10 birds with them and they were all hammered.
Also just because it is centered on the head doesnt mean pellets hit vitals spine and brain....It is highly unlikely, but could happen that you hit nothing but skin
Like I said they pattern great, but seem to not penetrate good.
I have talked to a few other folks and they have mentioned similar.
Quote from: gatrapper on May 12, 2011, 03:43:50 PM
Quote from: knotheadedfool on May 12, 2011, 02:59:08 PM
lol @ you being sure that the pattern was centered on the head of the one that ran off.....really?
and the one you recovered, if you shot him a second time, don't you think THATS when you might have hit his head?
2nd shot was a body shot. How do I know? Because I shot him at about 8 ft and blew a hole threw him.
Thanks for the comment.
If they didnt penetrate how would it be possible to blow a hole through him?? Xr's will hammer him if you do your part.
Im pretty sure any shot will punch a hole through a turkey @ 8ft.
sounds frustrating and I feel for you with the bad luck, but in my experience there is no problem with penetration with the Winchester XR's. Ive killed several birds with them. One on the run was shot low in the neck and high in the breast at 37 steps. Pellets went through the breast and were stuck on the inside on the skin on the side of the body the shot exited. Who knows why the birds you were shooting at didn't die on the first shot? I do know that I quit aiming at heads after I missed one a few years ago and have since aimed at the neck with zero problems. There's a lot of neck to hit and pellets over the head do nothing. Hope your luck improves.
I shot one with 6s at 45 yards on a dead run and put 25 in his head. Rolled him up with no flopping. The other two I shot this year got hammered too.
You think maybe your powder got wet or something. Maybe your not getting full velocity?
I am with Jay on this one. I started shooting base to the middle of the neck and have not had a problem in years. I know with the head shots just a slight wiggle on his part and the mass of pellets can be off to one side or the other.
Ok back to it what gun do you shoot. Now could be wet or damp. Now I think you have other problem if the shell not wet. I have video of them and they will smack a bird. Look like he hit with a truck. Is this a scooped gun or rifle sights. Like said above put you hunting gear on and shoot the gun.
Change ammo get confidence back.eventually the problem will show itself.
QuoteLike I said they pattern great, but seem to not penetrate good.
Are you seriously saying that Winchester Extended Range 6's lack the penetration power to effectively kill turkeys at 30 yards? Regular lead 6's will kill turkeys at that range. So how could it be that shot which is both harder and denser than the lead shot launched at the same speed won't kill turkeys at that range? It defies the laws of physics. I have no idea what your true problem is; poor shooting, bad patterns, etc, but I know the following to be a fact; you center a turkeys head and neck in a good pattern of Win Ext Range 6's at 30 yards and that's a dead turkey. He may flop but he won't run.
I've killed plenty with XR 5's and 6's never an issue, I'm Saying operator error,I shot one a few years ago at about 8 yards that only caught the fringe edge of my pattern and had to choke him to death but other than that they've been DRT with a little floppage.
QuoteWho knows; maybe you got a crazy lot of shells without enough powder
It would have to be something of this nature if the patterns are good and his shooting is on the mark.
I use Nitro Ray's duplex loads now because they pattern best in the shotgun I currently use. But several years ago I used a little short barreled Mossberg 500 for turkeys. It would put about 140 pellets inside 10 inches at 40 using 3 inch Win Ext 6's. Nothing to raise an eyebrow here but more than good enough to shoot out to 40 yards. I killed 3 turkeys the first year I used that combo. No problems at all. The first bird I shot was at 40 yards. Not only did it kill him cleanly but some of the pellets in the lower half of the pattern hit him in his upper left breast. They went through the feathers; through the left breast meat; through his breast plate; and half way through the meat of the right breast. I'd say that would qualify as "More Than Adequate Penetration". LOL! And that's from a shotgun with a 20 inch barrel that had to be costing me some velocity vs a longer barreled gun.
I've killed 20 + longbeards with W-ER 5&6's and have nothing bad to say about them,do a test with the shells if you dont feel confident with them and see what the results are.I like believe this is a POI issue.
Are you bore snakein you barrel after every shot? Not sure if thats the problem or not. Some guns like to be a little fouled, and some like a slick bore from my experience.
Ya'll can keep them Winchester shells, I have no doubts they can kill but man do the pack a woop on the other end. :bike2:
Winchester XRHD's in 5's or 6's at 1300+fps at 30yds!!!! If he moved from the spot you missed. Plan and simple.
Easy penetration test is to take 2 soup cans. Tin ones not aluminum. Empty them, stack them one on top of the other and duct tape them together. This will give a close approximation to the size of the head and neck.
Shoot it at thirty yards, you should get majority of the pellets passing through both sides. That will prove that penetration is not a factor.
Dissecting the head / neck is also something else that helps. Surprising how many holes you cannot see until you peel the skin off a gobblers head. Amount of blood doesn't always mean a lot of pellets hit the noggin.
GATRAPPER when you said the next afternoon you shot a gobbler at 45yds and swiss cheesed his face he took a strool out of the woods with you I assume.Ive shot a few gobblers with Winnies HV/ER #6 shot and never had any problems.
GATRAPPER
are you goofin on everybody maybe
right now I'm shooting hevi 13 for turkeys - however I have shot Winchester XR's before, I've shot a lotta shells in my life, as to my knowledge I have never shot a Winchester shotshell or a shotshell with Winchester components that I would consider to be junk. Remington shotshells -- now thats another story
The bird I pole-axed at 43 yards yesterday was very, very dead thanks to 2 oz of XRHD 6s.
Yeah they're junk..... :you_rock:
When I bought an Indian Creek Choke for my Browning about 4 years ago, I picked up a few rounds of every type of 3" turkey loads that I could find from my buddies so I could determine the best ammo pattern. In some cases I bought whole boxes.
I went to the range and spent the afternoon shooting over 20 3" rounds back to back in my BPS pump. I shot so many I got nauseated. But what I found was the Win XR, hands down, gave me the best most consistent pattern of them all. And since, I have laid down a gobbler at 53 yards. Win XR has served me well.
And the worst pattern for my gun and choke....Hevi-Shot.
GunRunner
:smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an
Quote from: boyhowdy on May 14, 2011, 07:52:03 AM
I have never shot a Winchester shotshell or a shotshell with Winchester components that I would consider to be junk. Remington shotshells -- now thats another story
I have to fully agree with that statement...
Quote from: Mild Bill on May 15, 2011, 11:01:00 AM
Quote from: boyhowdy on May 14, 2011, 07:52:03 AM
I have never shot a Winchester shotshell or a shotshell with Winchester components that I would consider to be junk. Remington shotshells -- now thats another story
I have to fully agree with that statement...
+1000