After attending the national convention for 12 straight years and being a small time vendor for two of those 12, I am disappointed with NWTF now more than ever.
First of all this convention is set up for the big time corporations to succeed and for the small guys/gals to be pushed by the wayside.
After the last show I attended as a vendor I made a personal decision to stop supporting NWTF with my membership. This was a small statement but the only thing a poor man can afford to do. It is my personal opinion NWTF is a money grubbing organization with very high paid upper management.
However with all this being said. Over the last several years I have still attended the show as it is only 2 1/2 hours from me and I have made several friends from other states over the years and the show serves as a great gathering place to catch up and tell lies ever year. During these years I have chose to pay the $20 day pass and not pay a membership.
After making the drive today with my father and two brothers, we braved the line only to be informed the cost is now $35.00 and a $20.00 day pass is not an option... probably much to the surprise of the young man at the desk I politely informed him we would not be bullied into buying a membership even if they have a gift card to hand us.
For a minute during my walk to the truck I started feeling like this could just be me? About the time I reached my truck we encountered 5 guys on their way home for the same reason!!!!!
It wasn't the money let's get that straight! It's the forceful tactics NWTF is using to sell memberships.
At the very least this should have been disclosed....
The more money it cost me to get in just to spend my money is just gonna cause me to spend less at these over priced booths these poor suckers have paid for with turkey calls their trying to sell to break even.
This is an end of an era for me.. unicoi here I come..!
I agree with everything you are saying about the NWTF. It was started with great intentions and they were one of the main reasons the wild turkey was brought back to huntable populations and restored in some areas. Over the years though there seems to be less focus on habitat and care of the bird and more about fattening up executives pockets and funding their life of luxurey. Very sad.
I was a long time member and let my membership lapse and back in 2012 I rejoined and got involved in getting a local chapter back on its feet. The experience was less than pleasurable as the focus was selling tickets for a banquet to raise money that the majority of the $$ raised went into the "Super Fund". All the work that was put into selling tickets for a banquet and my time spent attending meetings to plan it and to see that tiny check cut for the chapter left me wondering why in the hell did I do all this. I walked away and haven't looked back. Save the Habitat, Save the Hunt is a joke in my book. I'll attend local wild game dinners to benefit scholarships for local kids before I give the NWTF a dime. Andrew McKean with Outdoor Life became fed up as well and worked to put together a local rod and gun club rather than seeing local money shared nationally rather where it should be.
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I really enjoyed NWTF functions when the organization was a grassroots movement that you could feel good about being associated with....but when the focus evolved into a $$$$ Wild Turkey money machine my eagerness to support them changed....Chapters in every corner and memberships and sponsorships being the ultimate goal.Watching NWTF staff go get another grand slam isn't exactly progress. Every time you turn around it seemed like the organization was preaching moneymaker.... not the original goal of the group that started the thing.
I didn't have a problem with attending the Convention and paying my 35 dollar's and meeting lot's of vendor's and friends and got deals on calls from some of the best in the business of building turkey calls. And now i have a 25 dollar gift card to Bass Pro .. You can look at any show or convention and find problem's if you look for them. I got deals from most all of the same vendor's that attend Unicoi each year ... Take for instant Nomad camo , was gifting away free Tee Shirt's to anyone who wanted one , it was 20 dollar value for free .. Lot of vendor's were giving away free stuff or having drawing , like if you bought a pot call from them your name went into a drawing for Savage 301 turkey in 410 .. I saw a lot of small vendor's and big vendor's having a great time. So i have different opinion myself .... Everyone i saw was having a blast and enjoying the show and meeting new and old friends ... They added another room this year with another 150 vendor's with over 200 on a waiting list , so i don't think them miss one vendor is a big problem... Looking forward to next year with my room already booked ...
Where was this other room? And what was in it? Thanks
Quote from: treein dixie on February 15, 2020, 11:23:50 PM
Where was this other room? And what was in it? Thanks
I'm wondering the same.. there was 2 rooms last year and all I saw was 2 this year.
I see all sides of this conversation. The convention is a great avenue for turkey hunters from across the country to get together. From that standpoint, I applaud the NWTF for putting it together every year. If anybody is a serious turkey hunter, the cost to get in is a bargain, whether or not an NWTF membership is required as part of the deal.
From the other perspective, however, there is no question that the NWTF has strayed far away from its initial mission of helping wild turkeys. Now the focus seems to be on keeping the dollars flowing in at whatever cost. Unfortunately, that cost has been what appears to be a significant loss of focus on that original mission.
There is a way to bring both perspectives together. That is for those that have to pay for that membership to get into the party to make sure they use that membership to speak up and let the NWTF leadership know in no uncertain terms that they want the focus of the organization to get back to helping wild turkeys and, by association, wild turkey hunters.
Quote from: Roost 1 on February 15, 2020, 11:30:00 PM
Quote from: treein dixie on February 15, 2020, 11:23:50 PM
Where was this other room? And what was in it? Thanks
I'm wondering the same.. there was 2 rooms last year and all I saw was 2 this year.
I was lost after i when thru the Ryman room ... lol... it was so big .. that was probably the part i like the least the entrance how it's setup... did you all fine the room with all the camo discounted with great deals , i didn't find it either , but i heard about it ..
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 15, 2020, 11:36:14 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on February 15, 2020, 11:30:00 PM
Quote from: treein dixie on February 15, 2020, 11:23:50 PM
Where was this other room? And what was in it? Thanks
I'm wondering the same.. there was 2 rooms last year and all I saw was 2 this year.
I was lost after i when thru the Ryman room ... lol... it was so big .. that was probably the part i like the least the entrance how it's setup... did you all fine the room with all the camo discounted with great deals , i didn't find it either , but i heard about it ..
You did not find it because it was camouflaged silly.
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 15, 2020, 11:42:05 PM
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 15, 2020, 11:36:14 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on February 15, 2020, 11:30:00 PM
Quote from: treein dixie on February 15, 2020, 11:23:50 PM
Where was this other room? And what was in it? Thanks
I'm wondering the same.. there was 2 rooms last year and all I saw was 2 this year.
I was lost after i when thru the Ryman room ... lol... it was so big .. that was probably the part i like the least the entrance how it's setup... did you all fine the room with all the camo discounted with great deals , i didn't find it either , but i heard about it ..
You did not find it because it was camouflaged silly.
:TooFunny: you know your probably right .. but room or no room, it was blast at the show if you had the right attitude to have a good time ...but I'm still looking for the camo... BUT I DID FIND THE FREE NICE TEE SHIRTS .. :TooFunny:
I missed this camo room you speak of. Also missed seeing the taxidermy stuff.
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Quote from: aclawrence on February 15, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
I missed this camo room you speak of. Also missed seeing the taxidermy stuff.
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Did you get the free Tee Shirt form Nomad ? Wife and i both got one of those ... You could have you pick green or gray color ..
Taxidermy was at the other end of the watering hole
I played a ton of the contest calls and thought that alone was worth 35 dollars ! We had a blast but I can see the other side of the argument.
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 16, 2020, 12:06:05 AM
Quote from: aclawrence on February 15, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
I missed this camo room you speak of. Also missed seeing the taxidermy stuff.
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Did you get the free Tee Shirt form Nomad ? Wife and i both got one of those ... You could have you pick green or gray color ..
Nomad also had their camo in the event turkey shop BOGO and marked down. Got two very nice came dri-fit material shirts for $20 total no tax.
Sounds like a great show put on by a great organization!
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 15, 2020, 08:34:07 PM
It was started with great intentions...
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I would love to attend the convention someday, but that would require me to take a couple days off from work...and I like to save those for turkey season! Maybe I will go when I retire.
WOW! I've never been to any of the conventions, just because of the travel time but it sounds like another Strong Armed tactic to gain membership and put money in their coffers. QDMA did this several years ago and I dropped them. Seems as if Bass Pro and NWTF have teamed up with the $35 promo, to make you think you are only paying $10 but in fact BP's prices are so high for stuff, they will get that $25 back and tons more. Marketing Bait and Switch! Just read where Disney was raising their One day passes to $200 per day, ARE YOU KIDDING, to stand in line all day and pay even higher prices for food and drinks. Not me! I'm wondering how BAD the vendors got gouged for their individual tables? Was there a fee to Park as well? I'll continue to purchase from the guys here on OG and skip the lines along with the Marketing Bait and Switch.
My GF and I spent two days there. I missed the free t shirts I guess. Paid $5 a piece for them. Also didnt realize the Taxidermy was in a different location ? I got to attend the Seniors division prelims and finals for the first time. Got to watch Dave Owens take home the Reserve Championship. We got to meet him and his GF Courtnay. Both extremely good folks and down to earth. We got to see some wonderful ppl get into the Hall of Fame. Overall I guess the show was pretty good. Also renewed my NRA membership while I was there. I look at it this way, $35 spent looking at TURKEY STUFF is better than going out to eat.
I have expressed my displeasure with the NWTF here before and got hit pretty hard with criticism, but I see that others are feeling like me now. I was on board at the inception and actually met or knew many of the "old guard" officers. I remember when Rob Keck was just some young upstart guy. I actually called in an a amateur competition with him once, where he mentored the contestants with tips. He was a very personable guy. A friend of mine became a regional director and he often called me to take people they wanted to impress on hunts. Mostly these were pheasant hunts and he always joked he didn't want me he just wanted my dog. Anyway, I met a lot of the top people and they were great. As time went on, I saw less and less of these guys as "money men" took over. My friend told me once, "I can't get these new guys to come hunt with us we're not important enough". Since I also worked for DNR I saw how money was spent and that soured me too. All I will say is it wasn't spent wisely on the local chapters. I also contend that the states done most of the hard work and would have done it without the NWTF. What NWTF done best was put more idiots in the woods. OK, I'm starting to rant so I'll quit.
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 16, 2020, 12:06:05 AM
Quote from: aclawrence on February 15, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
I missed this camo room you speak of. Also missed seeing the taxidermy stuff.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Did you get the free Tee Shirt form Nomad ? Wife and i both got one of those ... You could have you pick green or gray color ..
Nope dang it! I carried my little girl this time so I was doing more of a speed walk through anyway. I think she was running out of steam. Sounds like I missed out on some clothes deals.
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i work my butt off to be able to find time and afford to hunt and fish all year round. i always feel a certain disconnect when i page through the latest ducks unlimited magazine and see all the big wigs in tuxedos and ball gowns at their "events"
trout unlimited left an even worse taste in my mouth. bunch of tools
work local and on a personal level with people to make a difference in the world. more fulfilling than just writing a $35 check once a year
I feel the same way as you do, but I saw this 20 years ago. NWTF is all about $$$ and they will never get another cent from me.
There are people at the convention I would love to go shoot the bull with, but I have no other interest in it. Unicoi is where I have been going the last few years and the show I will continue to attend. It is made for the everyday turkey hunter without all the gimmick/commercialized crap.
Quote from: bigriverbum on February 16, 2020, 08:39:26 AM
i always feel a certain disconnect when i page through the latest ducks unlimited magazine and see all the big wigs in tuxedos and ball gowns at their "events"
DU was the worst when I was involved with them. Every meeting was about how to make more money. At banquets it was push, push, push to get money from folks. Dropped them years ago.
Sad
We parted ways many moons ago. If I ever do go to another N"WTF" sponsored event it will be to give them one last moon.
Quote from: eggshell on February 16, 2020, 08:11:44 AM
I also contend that the states done most of the hard work and would have done it without the NWTF.
I'm sure this is true in some states, but here in NM that was certainly not the case. Without us turkey hunters organizing under the banner of the NWTF here, I believe very little would have been done in terms of turkey management or for turkey hunters. Our organized persistence with our Game & Fish Department back in the 80's and 90's is THE factor that put turkeys on the map here. Without our insistence that turkeys be managed as a species worthy of their true value as a premier game animal, they would still probably just be a consolation prize for big game hunters.
Having said that, however, we watched over those decades as the emphasis at NWTF headquarters went from being about supporting sound wild turkey management and projects to benefit them to that of feeding the growing corporate machine and the greed that naturally accompanies that. That transformation is truly unfortunate,...both for wild turkeys,...and wild turkey hunters.
Regardless of all of the above, I hope those that attended the party had a great time!
The need/push for more money seems to be a consistent theme for all these organizations. At various times I have been a committee member for DU, NWTF. Mule Deer and RMEF, along with attendance at their various events and events for other organisations I was not a committee member. I worked on a DU committee for several years and what really soured me was I was giving free labor to an organization that was paying one of it' chief executives $350000 per year when I was making about 20K per year. As has been stated all these organizations seem to start with good intentions and then deteriorate to a money generator for big salaried individuals..
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 16, 2020, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: eggshell on February 16, 2020, 08:11:44 AM
I also contend that the states done most of the hard work and would have done it without the NWTF.
I'm sure this is true in some states, but here in NM that was certainly not the case. Without us turkey hunters organizing under the banner of the NWTF here, I believe very little would have been done in terms of turkey management or for turkey hunters. Our organized persistence with our Game & Fish Department back in the 80's and 90's is THE factor that put turkeys on the map here. Without our insistence that turkeys be managed as a species worthy of their true value as a premier game animal, they would still probably just be a consolation prize for big game hunters.
Having said that, however, we watched over those decades as the emphasis at NWTF headquarters went from being about supporting sound wild turkey management and projects to benefit them to that of feeding the growing corporate machine and the greed that naturally accompanies that. That transformation is truly unfortunate,...both for wild turkeys,...and wild turkey hunters.
Regardless of all of the above, I hope those that attended the party had a great time!
The best post in this thread.... I agree 100%!!!
They went up on booth rent $300 at once, they are moving the smaller guys around next year after having the same spot 10+ years for commercial accounts that rent more booths. They had husband and wives split up seating at the dinner. The auction on line and in person was horrible. They couldn't manage the auction on line at all. Last year they used EBAY this year they wanted all the funds and screwed it all up spite all the hard work. The admission marketing deal is BS just to get more money. They moved Thursday for Sunday that a lot couldn't take off for.
Once they knock the smaller dealers out of the show the show will SINK. I can go to Bass Pro any day of the week they must had 20 booths, Its OK looking at guns but I can go to the local gun store 5 days a week and look at guns. I can buy a primos calls any day of the week at bass pro or on line, another 10 booths gone. I believe we all go for the turkey items, hand made calls, cloths specials, taxidermy, etc what original made the show!!
The custom call makers originally made the show now they can't afford to buy a booth... These days it reminds me of an indoor, upscale, flea market. I can buy soup mixes, honey, dips, etc at the grocery store. I don't go there to see ATVs, wood carvings, cheap jewelry, lawn mowers, etc.
Quote from: Roost 1 on February 16, 2020, 10:22:01 AM
The custom call makers originally made the show now they can't afford to buy a booth... These days it reminds me of an indoor, upscale, flea market. I can buy soup mixes, honey, dips, etc at the grocery store. I don't go there to see ATVs, wood carvings, cheap jewelry, lawn mowers, etc.
You see it too! Yes I know several dealers not going back next year because they can't afford the prices jumps! Pushing the call makers out!
Quote from: Brwndg on February 16, 2020, 09:01:19 AM
Quote from: bigriverbum on February 16, 2020, 08:39:26 AM
i always feel a certain disconnect when i page through the latest ducks unlimited magazine and see all the big wigs in tuxedos and ball gowns at their "events"
DU was the worst when I was involved with them. Every meeting was about how to make more money. At banquets it was push, push, push to get money from folks. Dropped them years ago.
Sad
then they take that money and spend a ton of it on "habitat". which often involves helping private land owners flood crops and run "pay to play" operations......that you can experience on youtube when the DU "stars" get to hunt there for the tv show
Regardless i go to support the call builders who are at the show and will be returning next year.. the other vendors at the show , just help in making it something for everyone .. Some call builders may leave and I'm sure others will give it a first time try at the show, it's all part of the game .. Getting upset , doesn't help anyone , my suggestion is call the NWTF headquarters in Nashville and voice your opinion about how you feel about the show and booth prices etc .. that's the only way we may get it change for the future and help these call builders ....
Wish I could have experienced the convention years ago when it was more intimate and affordable for smaller vendors. Commercializing events is a sad trend nationwide. Love em or hate em, if these events indoctrinate the youth to our great sport its a win for us all.
This was my first show, and coming from afar, I took in the whole experience going all 3 days. Commercializing aside, its still an amazing opportunity to run calls, watch the best compete and learn a thing or two about turkey hunting. I spent a lot of time in the custom call room. These are contest calls and should be considered their best work. Where else besides Unicoi can you run calls from the best at your leisure. They were available on silent bid and some sold at a steal imo. I was also kindly taught how to run a few that were new to me. Thurs was the best day to meet, greet and hear the calls above the crowd. Friday double the crowd and some vendors were gone or low on stock. Sat is a circus and best spent watching the finals or in the custom room. Which day you decide to attend will most impact your overall experience. Meeting some great call makers, turkey industry icons and playing their calls was priceless for me.
I do wish they had done a better job at signage to the seminar and taxidermy rooms. I had to ask directions and went the wrong way on several occasions.
I hope to make Unicoi some day but for now I got a Glenda satchel full of amazing calls to practice and hunt!
Do people not realize that the more members an organization like this can report can greatly increase the amount of support and pull they can get for fighting for the things we all deem important.
And conservation projects on the number of acres the nwtf has affected and renting the opryland hotel with an extra room this year, is not free.
Look up sometime the $ amount the nwtf has put on the ground and how many turkeys they have spread across the country.
If you have had the chance to hunt turkeys in the last 20 years, you should buy an nwtf membership every year.
I have paid $15-20 to get into gun shows that i can walk through in 15 minutes and see everything. But the nwtf costs $35 now and they give you a $25 gift card, and you guys want to complain?
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Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 03:37:51 PM
Do people not realize that the more members an organization like this can report can greatly increase the amount of support and pull they can get for fighting for the things we all deem important.
And conservation projects on the number of acres the nwtf has affected and renting the opryland hotel with an extra room this year, is not free.
Look up sometime the $ amount the nwtf has put on the ground and how many turkeys they have spread across the country.
If you have had the chance to hunt turkeys in the last 20 years, you should buy an nwtf membership every year.
I have paid $15-20 to get into gun shows that i can walk through in 15 minutes and see everything. But the nwtf costs $35 now and they give you a $25 gift card, and you guys want to complain?
Your points are well taken. We all have our own expectations for the organization. As one who joined NWTF in 1975, what I deemed to be important was putting dollars on the ground for wild turkeys. From my own perspective, that is still the vision I have for the organization, but I have watched as it has morphed into what it is today. ...Not saying it is good or bad,...just saying it is not what it was when I joined "way back when",...and I wish it still was.
There is no doubt in my mind that the NWTF was instrumental in the explosion of wild turkey populations and the popularity of turkey hunting across the country a half century ago. By the same token, we have watched turkey numbers plummet in a significant number of places in recent years. The NWTF of old would have been on the cutting edge of doing something about that. Question is,..."Where are they now"?
To paraphrase the old saying, as far as I can tell..."they are fiddling while Rome burns"!
Goodtimekiller, Most of us aren't complaining. We have seen the NWTF grow on the backs of small call makers, small donations from small companies and individual memberships. When these organizations start getting larger, they overpay the top 1%, get their hands on corporate money and forget about the people that got them started. IT'S GREED, pure and simple. And with that greed, comes the need for more and more $$$. Local chapters of NWTF are the Grass Roots of this Org. not the BIG SALARIES paid to the top 1%. Yes, NWTF has done some Great work for this sport but GREED will bring them to their knees very quickly, as so many other organizations have witnessed. And the Turkeys will be the ones that suffer. I would really like to see what % of the money they take in each year, ACTUALLY gets put back into the turkey population. I'll bet it's less than 50%.
NWTF greeter: "Here have a glass of cool-aide. you'll feel a whole lot better in just a little bit.....it'll be just like heaven. Oh let me hold your billfold it looks awfully heavy".
I used to know an old Wildlife Biologist who worked a lot of the turkey trappings and restockings. He had a saying, "it's picture day, it ain't a work day" . If you knew him well you knew he meant that his crew was the ones baiting sites for two months, setting up and mending cannon nets, sitting in blinds at 20 degrees at 6:00AM, and wresting turkeys into boxes only to drive them to a dog and pony show in fancy NWTF boxes and all the suites getting a picture with them releasing a turkey. The crew was 2 miles down the road releasing the main group.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 16, 2020, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 03:37:51 PM
Do people not realize that the more members an organization like this can report can greatly increase the amount of support and pull they can get for fighting for the things we all deem important.
And conservation projects on the number of acres the nwtf has affected and renting the opryland hotel with an extra room this year, is not free.
Look up sometime the $ amount the nwtf has put on the ground and how many turkeys they have spread across the country.
If you have had the chance to hunt turkeys in the last 20 years, you should buy an nwtf membership every year.
I have paid $15-20 to get into gun shows that i can walk through in 15 minutes and see everything. But the nwtf costs $35 now and they give you a $25 gift card, and you guys want to complain?
Your points are well taken. We all have our own expectations for the organization. As one who joined NWTF in 1975, what I deemed to be important was putting dollars on the ground for wild turkeys. From my own perspective, that is still the vision I have for the organization, but I have watched as it has morphed into what it is today. ...Not saying it is good or bad,...just saying it is not what it was when I joined "way back when",...and I wish it still was.
There is no doubt in my mind that the NWTF was instrumental in the explosion of wild turkey populations and the popularity of turkey hunting across the country a half century ago. By the same token, we have watched turkey numbers plummet in a significant number of places in recent years. The NWTF of old would have been on the cutting edge of doing something about that. Question is,..."Where are they now"?
To paraphrase the old saying, as far as I can tell..."they are fiddling while Rome burns"!
There is an old saying, "those that refuse to change, die." Look at the groups that refuse to pay high administration fees, they go under. You can do it 2 ways, pay more for great administration and be successful or pay little and not grow/succeed.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200216/38deac45d80d3f924c1685675bda78e7.jpg)
Less than 10% of nwtf money raised goes to administration.
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For a comprehensive evaluation
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4201
They do get a high score as charities go, but accounting can be pretty creative. The most glaring thing I see in the graph goodtimekiller posted is only 22%+ went to conservation and 52%+ to program and fund raising, program means any expense not attributed to direct mission. That may include salaries. Overall aprox. 77% went to things other than direct Turkey conservation. I concede thay have done a lot of good in the past. They helped fund land and research, but they have also evolved into a corporate beast. The link I gave shows >40 million in revenue and ~39 M in expenses. Divide that by 49 states with turkeys = ~795,000 dollars per state meant to help turkeys. In my home state of Ohio 1.7 M +/- hunting license were sold. That equals 45 cents per license holder spent by the NWTF on turkeys. If we each donated $1.00 extra on our license purchase we'd bury their contributions. Ohio allow you to do that and I have. I'll spnd my money at home thank you.
I was part of an NWTF chapter for a while and finally realized that I really didn't agree with what was happening. I think the organization was beneficial to the wild turkey at one time, but I have never seen their presence or evidence of their presence anywhere that I personally hunt or have hunted, and populations seem to be falling everywhere. Where are they doing anything to help a single turkey?
I will go as far as to say that the NWTF's promotion of the sport for monetary gain is doing our precious turkeys more harm than good.
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I just attended it for the 1st time. I was already a member, but 35 dollars to talk with top names in the industry, see the best calls in the world and hear the best callers. 35 bucks is a drop in the bucket. If you haven't been its worth it...
Quote from: eggshell on February 16, 2020, 07:02:03 PM
For a comprehensive evaluation
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4201
They do get a high score as charities go, but accounting can be pretty creative. The most glaring thing I see in the graph goodtimekiller posted is only 22%+ went to conservation and 52%+ to program and fund raising, program means any expense not attributed to direct mission. That may include salaries. Overall aprox. 77% went to things other than direct Turkey conservation. I concede thay have done a lot of good in the past. They helped fund land and research, but they have also evolved into a corporate beast. The link I gave shows >40 million in revenue and ~39 M in expenses. Divide that by 49 states with turkeys = ~795,000 dollars per state meant to help turkeys. In my home state of Ohio 1.7 M +/- hunting license were sold. That equals 45 cents per license holder spent by the NWTF on turkeys. If we each donated $1.00 extra on our license purchase we'd bury their contributions. Ohio allow you to do that and I have. I'll spnd my money at home thank you.
Their goals have changed and this is one reason why the programs % is higher, spreading turkeys is now not a major concern as recruiting and keeping hunters, obtaining land we can all use, lobbying for gun rights, etc etc etc.
Conservation is not the huge issue for turkeys today as it was, but if you recruit and keep hunters in a conservation minded organization, then conservation by default grows.
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Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 07:51:29 PM
I was part of an NWTF chapter for a while and finally realized that I really didn't agree with what was happening. I think the organization was beneficial to the wild turkey at one time, but I have never seen their presence or evidence of their presence anywhere that I personally hunt or have hunted, and populations seem to be falling everywhere. Where are they doing anything to help a single turkey?
I will go as far as to say that the NWTF's promotion of the sport for monetary gain is doing our precious turkeys more harm than good.
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If you have hunted turkeys, are able to have guns, seen more abundant wildlife, you have definitely seen the presence of the nwtf, whether you knew it or not.
And, the nwtf id helping fund and provide personnel to several states to study the decline in turkeys.
If you think that anyone promoting hunting is hurting the sport, when hunter numbers are falling drastically on a national level, you are selfish or ignorant.
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Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 07:51:29 PM
I was part of an NWTF chapter for a while and finally realized that I really didn't agree with what was happening. I think the organization was beneficial to the wild turkey at one time, but I have never seen their presence or evidence of their presence anywhere that I personally hunt or have hunted, and populations seem to be falling everywhere. Where are they doing anything to help a single turkey?
I will go as far as to say that the NWTF's promotion of the sport for monetary gain is doing our precious turkeys more harm than good.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you have hunted turkeys, are able to have guns, seen more abundant wildlife, you have definitely seen the presence of the nwtf, whether you knew it or not.
And, the nwtf id helping fund and provide personnel to several states to study the decline in turkeys.
If you think that anyone promoting hunting is hurting the sport, when hunter numbers are falling drastically on a national level, you are selfish or ignorant.
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Well I guess I struck a nerve. They must sign your check.
I can agree with your first paragraph. Although I was not aware they have helped us maintain our 2nd amendment in anyway.
Where are the hunter numbers dramatically falling? I've heard this before but have never seen proof, but I have not looked for it. I don't think they falling one bit. Definitely not in the SE. I believe they are more turkey hunters in the woods now than ever before. I would like to see the numbers. We are all selfish to some existent when it comes to turkey hunting. Ignorant nah I don't believe so. That's all I have to say about this topic.
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Number of people hunting squirrels, doves, rabbits, raccoons, etc may be dripping but I firmly believe their are more turkey hunters today than ever before....
I'm one of the ignorant ones I guess. The best turkey hunting I ever experienced was pre N"WTF". I also remember the FG&FWFC trapping and trading turkeys for deer way before the N"WTF" was even a thought.
And I wish someone would send me a map of all this property they purchased that we can hunt I'd appreciate it. I called them a few years ago and they couldn't point me toward any property they acquired for us hunters to enjoy. If someone wants to support them, more power to you, but They got my last dollar years ago. I'll give them credit, they are great at taking advantage of photo opportunities.
Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 07:51:29 PM
I was part of an NWTF chapter for a while and finally realized that I really didn't agree with what was happening. I think the organization was beneficial to the wild turkey at one time, but I have never seen their presence or evidence of their presence anywhere that I personally hunt or have hunted, and populations seem to be falling everywhere. Where are they doing anything to help a single turkey?
I will go as far as to say that the NWTF's promotion of the sport for monetary gain is doing our precious turkeys more harm than good.
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If you have hunted turkeys, are able to have guns, seen more abundant wildlife, you have definitely seen the presence of the nwtf, whether you knew it or not.
And, the nwtf id helping fund and provide personnel to several states to study the decline in turkeys.
If you think that anyone promoting hunting is hurting the sport, when hunter numbers are falling drastically on a national level, you are selfish or ignorant.
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Well I guess I struck a nerve. They must sign your check.
I can agree with your first paragraph. Although I was not aware they have helped us maintain our 2nd amendment in anyway.
Where are the hunter numbers dramatically falling? I've heard this before but have never seen proof, but I have not looked for it. I don't think they falling one bit. Definitely not in the SE. I believe they are more turkey hunters in the woods now than ever before. I would like to see the numbers. We are all selfish to some existent when it comes to turkey hunting. Ignorant nah I don't believe so. That's all I have to say about this topic.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200217/92e708e91a66edb1d059275985032f77.jpg)
The fact that you say you had no idea that the nwtf helped maintain our 2nd amendment right is proof of ignorance by definition.
I have never received a penny from the nwtf but i have been given much more than that because I can remember hunting when it was rare to hear or see a turkey, much less have a limit of 4/season.
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Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Their goals have changed and this is one reason why the programs % is higher, spreading turkeys is now not a major concern as recruiting and keeping hunters, obtaining land we can all use, lobbying for gun rights, etc etc etc.
Conservation is not the huge issue for turkeys today as it was, but if you recruit and keep hunters in a conservation minded organization, then conservation by default grows.
Conservation of wild turkeys, their habitats, and the myriad issues that affect them is just as big an issue, if not more-so, than it has ever been. There are plenty of places where the money that is being spent on these other programs could be put to much better use (in a lot of folks opinion) by spending it on trying to resolve current turkey population problems.
Simply put, the reason that it is not is because turkeys don't give dollars to pay for salaries and infrastructure. Granted, there is a balance between helping turkeys and finding the financial resources needed to accomplish that. Unfortunately, it appears to many of us long-time supporters that the balance has tipped too far to the side of raising dollars at the expense of helping turkeys.
....Just the view from a long-time NWTF volunteer/leader that witnessed the changes take place over several decades. If others are happy with the current status quo of the organization, that is their prerogative. Again, I just think it is unfortunate that helping wild turkeys has become secondary to putting dollars in the NWTF coffers.
My comment was from experience at the local level seeing first hand how the hard work you put into organizing and getting people to attend a banquet and then seeing finances divided up and a tiny check cut for a local chapter compared to what went to the national organization was mind boggling. You can access the "Super Fund" but you have to ask for the money if you have a project you want to work on. If that's the case just start your own rod and gun club and make an impact locally where it matters. If you want to enact change then bend your representatives ear and let them know how you feel about a conservation/access issue, enough people bending the same ear gets results. We need to fight our own fights, not depend on others to do it for us.
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LOL...I swear...some of you guys are DRINKING the koolaid... you are also the same guys working your tails off at your local chapter to send NWTF a fat check...????
It's ok though..call it charity. I mean when Mr Keck resigned in 2008 he was only pulling down $360,000 a year...
Keep your money in your pocket boys. The real turkey men are at unicoi. I could care less about seeing Michael Waddell and his roadies...
I mean come on.. take a blue collar man that has 3 boys and works for a living. It cost him $80 bucks to take his boys last year. That same show this year cost him $140...
I'm a call maker..I have been right there on the front row. Most of you have probably walked past my booth. I know how it works as an attendee and a vendor.
I can tell you one thing for sure... I never even had one of those fat cats with the $400,000 salaries stop by my booth and thank me for being there....
Boys if you want someone to fight for your guns join the NRA.
Quote from: Kystrut on February 16, 2020, 09:57:10 PM
I mean when Mr Keck resigned in 2008 he was only pulling down $360,000 a year...
Actually, I think that was just his base salary. With "perks" I believe it was pushing half-a-mil. ....Anyhow, way too much for a non-profit that was primarily being supported by a bunch of folks making 10% of that or less a year. Some folks just don't get the concept of working for the resource because you love the resource,...money be damned.
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4201
One of the highest rated conservation nonprofits.
Funny, if i had walked by your booth and tried your calls and didnt like them, i would not post on tndeer about how bad they are. I guess some people just like to gripe and complain while the rest of us keep working hard to keep hunting and conservation going.
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Quote from: Kystrut on February 16, 2020, 09:57:10 PM
It cost him $80 bucks to take his boys last year. That same show this year cost him $140...
That same man now has $100 in Bass Pro gift cards that he wouldn't have had last year paying $80. Not sure if you're against Bass Pro, and their higher than most price point, but surely $100 back to spend there could get something useful for you and your boys. A couple boxes of shotgun shells at least, they're only a couple dollars higher than Wally World.
I don't see the big gripe many are having, seems like it was really put together this year. Sure it's not the same show it used to be, but as times change, businesses and orginazations have to adapt and revolve around those changes or they won't survive.
Quote from: eggshell on February 16, 2020, 08:11:44 AM
I have expressed my displeasure with the NWTF here before and got hit pretty hard with criticism, but I see that others are feeling like me now. I was on board at the inception and actually met or knew many of the "old guard" officers. I remember when Rob Keck was just some young upstart guy. I actually called in an a amateur competition with him once, where he mentored the contestants with tips. He was a very personable guy. A friend of mine became a regional director and he often called me to take people they wanted to impress on hunts. Mostly these were pheasant hunts and he always joked he didn't want me he just wanted my dog. Anyway, I met a lot of the top people and they were great. As time went on, I saw less and less of these guys as "money men" took over. My friend told me once, "I can't get these new guys to come hunt with us we're not important enough". Since I also worked for DNR I saw how money was spent and that soured me too. All I will say is it wasn't spent wisely on the local chapters. I also contend that the states done most of the hard work and would have done it without the NWTF. What NWTF done best was put more idiots in the woods. OK, I'm starting to rant so I'll quit.
AMEN!.... not to say the convention isn't cool, I went a couple years ago and had a decent time , but I agree with the last part of your statement . Everybody is a turkey hunter now days.
QuoteThe best turkey hunting I ever experienced was pre N"WTF". I also remember the FG&FWFC trapping and trading turkeys for deer way before the N"WTF" was even a thought. .
Actually that is a good point. Here in Ohio our first modern day season was late 60s, I believe maybe 1967. I do know that reintroduction started in the late 1950s and I actually knew the people who done it. The NWTF didn't start until 1971 or 72 (maybe someone remembers which year). They were pretty small until the 80s. So most of the turkey populations were well on their way before the NWTF was a significant organization....this is why I have stated several times, "the states done the work" at least for the most part. Now I will concede the NWTF in it's most effective time brought a lot of light to turkey huunting and yes they actually did provide a lot of money for land and thousands of boxes. Yet just as a train was built to haul freight and is valuable when it's doing that, it's no good when it runs down tracks to the wrong destination. I once was all in on NWTF, but I am convinced they are on the wrong track. I will say if you enjoy the show and all the trappings then support what you believe in. When I worked for Wildlife I had many organizations approach me wanting to know what they could do. The ones who done the most for me were the local or state groups, the big national Organizations done very little. I always made time and created the avenues for these groups. They were salt of the earth and sportsmen and women are some of the most dedicated and generous in the world, corporations are not. The NWTF now works more like a corporation. What I'm sayiing is I think they have lost some of their humanity.
One point I hope we can all agree on by reading through this thread.....The NWTF has an image problem
GTK,
Please tell me what your local chapter is doing to help the turkeys in the Clarksville/Montgomery Co area? With all the money that is raised by that chapter, along with the way you are defending the NWTF, it must be something good going on over there. I'd like to come see the local dollars at work.
Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 07:51:29 PM
I was part of an NWTF chapter for a while and finally realized that I really didn't agree with what was happening. I think the organization was beneficial to the wild turkey at one time, but I have never seen their presence or evidence of their presence anywhere that I personally hunt or have hunted, and populations seem to be falling everywhere. Where are they doing anything to help a single turkey?
I will go as far as to say that the NWTF's promotion of the sport for monetary gain is doing our precious turkeys more harm than good.
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If you have hunted turkeys, are able to have guns, seen more abundant wildlife, you have definitely seen the presence of the nwtf, whether you knew it or not.
And, the nwtf id helping fund and provide personnel to several states to study the decline in turkeys.
If you think that anyone promoting hunting is hurting the sport, when hunter numbers are falling drastically on a national level, you are selfish or ignorant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well I guess I struck a nerve. They must sign your check.
I can agree with your first paragraph. Although I was not aware they have helped us maintain our 2nd amendment in anyway.
Where are the hunter numbers dramatically falling? I've heard this before but have never seen proof, but I have not looked for it. I don't think they falling one bit. Definitely not in the SE. I believe they are more turkey hunters in the woods now than ever before. I would like to see the numbers. We are all selfish to some existent when it comes to turkey hunting. Ignorant nah I don't believe so. That's all I have to say about this topic.
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turkey hunter numbers have not fallen in the southeast. At all......
There's definitely more turkey hunters around here (NC) these days. I barely used to hear a shot or see many turkey hunter's trucks parked beside the road when I first started. Though the other side of that coin is that there's quite a few more turkeys to hunt now than it used to be. Now a days, I hear two other hunters calling near one of my better spots when there used to be none...thankfully they tend to push turkeys towards me.
I've never been to the Convention...maybe one day? It sounds like UNICOI is the way to go anyway.
I didn't like when NWTF switched from Turkey Call to Turkey Country magazine. It kinda changed from a more dedicated turkey hunter's publication to a family oriented magazine. I don't want this to be taken the wrong way & my desire is not to offend or sound sexist. I have absolutely nothing against women hunting & enjoying outdoor pursuits. I think it's cool when they make the effort to get good at it. But, the next woman I see out on her own turkey hunting will be the first. Anytime I see a female turkey hunting, she is the significant other or spouse of a guy who hunts. I look forward to the day when I meet a dedicated female turkey hunter, but my point is; I believe Turkey Country magazine has gone over the top promoting women hunters and I just don't see 'em out there. It doesn't feel like the volume of articles/content aimed at the female readership of Turkey Country equals that number of participants. Maybe I'm ignorant & wrong, but you can't prove that by my observations.
Jim
The Rob Keck salary was a shock to me and even at state levels there are 6 figures.
Any conservation organization is better than not being a part of one.
Maybe you guys are new to the sport but....
By 2000 the NWTF goal was to be done with stocking of turkey.
Now they have the save the habitat save the hunt. Get it?
Look around, all wildlife is losing habitat.
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Save the Habitat -Follow this link:
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/index
CRP has 22 million acres enrolled, but the 2018 Farm Bill lifted the cap to 27 million acres. This means farmers and ranchers have a chance to enroll in CRP for the first time or continue their participation for another term.
One stroke of the pen in Washington DC and more habitat is created than the NWTF could ever hope to. Not saying their mission isn't admirable, but on the big picture not a significant impact. Probably the best part of what they do is lobby for bills like these programs. My family has over 200 acres in CREP, and 1,000 more in managed forest programs, don't tell me I don't get it.
I will say that my cousin, who owns the 1,000 acres, invited the NWTF to consult on his land and they sent a forester. He looked around and asked if he could turkey hunt, then he recommended a USDA program my cousin was already signed up for. When asked if they could provide any funding for any projects the answer was "no". I have literally spent thousand of hours on this land doing what I can. Some of it is the home farm and I have a management plan on my own land which I didn't even include in the 1200. I have turkeys on my farm annually and they do well.
Quote from: fallhnt on February 17, 2020, 07:09:18 AM
The Rob Keck salary was a shock to me and even at state levels there are 6 figures.
Any conservation organization is better than not being a part of one.
Maybe you guys are new to the sport but....
By 2000 the NWTF goal was to be done with stocking of turkey.
Now they have the save the habitat save the hunt. Get it?
Look around, all wildlife is losing habitat.
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I was also shocked when I saw Keck was making almost 400K. and most under him were making 200K. All for the $$ of the members. Funny how most resigned when that news got out.
Quote from: fallhnt on February 17, 2020, 07:09:18 AM
Any conservation organization is better than not being a part of one.
By 2000 the NWTF goal was to be done with stocking of turkey.
Now they have the save the habitat save the hunt.
Look around, all wildlife is losing habitat.
Again, I have no problem with anyone wanting to support the organization. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that being part of an organized voice that supports pro-conservation and hunting positions is a good thing.
However, from my perspective, all of the latest catch-phrases ("Save the Habitat, Save the Hunt") and the magazine changes, etc. have basically been initiated to raise dollars rather than help the resource. Maybe I have been out-of-the-loop for too long, but I see fewer and fewer on-the-ground projects and research being done to solve the current problems that are decimating turkey populations in some areas,...while more and more fund-raising events occur that pretty obviously are just done to increase that funding base.
Once again, there is a balance to be had between actually helping wild turkeys and raising the dollars to do that. That balance, in many of our opinions, has shifted way too far to the dollar-sign side with less and less focus on the original mission of the organization. As you can see, that has really left a sour taste in the mouths of an awful lot of folks that would otherwise be onboard.
Postscript: I am off to go huntin' (Yea!) for a couple of days,...will catch up when I return. ...Good discussion going here. Keep it civil and constructive. See-ya!
I hate it took you so long to see what the N WTF is really all about. Some people saw it long ago when Keck was living life to the fullest with his flock of feather preeners huddled around. For those of you who haven't realized it yet, it's coming. Just keep that wallet out and keep on "saving those turkeys". You're getting "clucked" and don't even realize it.
I'm not a member, haven't been for years. However, the CEO salary doesn't surprise me. They bring in roughly 40 million a year. That salary (379,000) is less than 1%. Considering the position manages $40 million, that doesn't seem too bad to me as far as CEOs go.
The RMEF brings in a little over 50 million and pays 300,000.
I'm a Callmaker some may know me other may not. So i will attempt to give you may take as a Callmaker. IF i care to meet customers and share a passion we all have for hunting turkeys. I must attend shows to do so. If i intend to establish myself in the call making world I must attend shows. The price for this is high at the Convention but it is paying dues. I started attending the show 15 years ago as a vendor. I was driven out due to cost. So here is my take.
There are two main events. NWTF Convention and UNICOI Callmakers Show. I set up at Unicoi and this year help establish the Turpin Box Call Category which I also completed in at the NWTF. I GOT TO MEET GREAT PEOPLE in both places. Hunters like me, collectors, people from all over the world. These are people whom i would have never meet Without the NWTF and UNICOI. I wouldn't know near as many of Ya'll. Most of Ya'll wouldn't ever see nor play a Turpin Style Hen Box. I enjoy both events but for different reason.
My time here on earth is limited. I give my time to building calls because i enjoy it. If you think you are going to make money as a call maker you are in for a rude awakening. Do or can i afford to buy better guns more shells YES but you are the reason i share my abilities and knowledge.
No where else can you have as much fun for $35 dollars. You are going to meet some of the best people who all share one thing in common. Turkey hunting. Nothing in this world is free except GOD.... If the RICH ever QUITE hunting, we will be screwed. Do you think the Governor of VA cares what a Poor Redneck in the country thinks. No he does not. He only cares about the people who put money in his bank account thinks. The NWTF, DU, RMEF, NRA and QU put money into their pockets. We as hunters need these type of people because they don't care what you as a individual thinks.
Has the NWTF went left? IMO, YES Is it still a Great Organization YES in it's own right. You can be two ways a FOLLOWER or a LEADER it's up to you. Remember your time is LIMITED. How do you want to be remembered? I choice to leave a little behind for others to enjoy. The NWTF allows us to to do this as a Callmaker.
Remember: If you step on a snake it will bite you. So don't step on the snake... BUT if you stay out of the woods sooner or latter someone will cut the woods down and we will lose them forever.
Now: I would like to THANK everone who supports us as a callmaker. The Hunters, the Judges, the Collectors and the Volunteers UNICOI is in January, NWTF is in February hope to see you at both great events..... But don't be fooled without these you could loose out on the great thing of all. FRENDSHIPS
As far as the NWTF is concerned, I am an ignorer. I just wish they would stop filling up the woods in which I hunt with the wannabes.
I used to be a NWTF member for many years, and hunted WMA's in FLA that had food plots and burns done for the turkeys that were paid for by the NWTF. These days those are getting harder to find, and you're right, the NWTF has become a money making machine.
I used to watch their TV show, until it became a bragging session for the NWTF big wigs to go hunt at elite lands owned by big time donors who managed their lands with NWTF funds. So several years ago, I let my NWTF membership go the way of my Ducks Unlimited membership. I didn't renew them.
It's a shame that con men get into positions of power in these once useful organizations, and use them for their own personal pleasure and profit, and ruin what the organizations were set up to do. The same thing is going on with the NRA right now. Wayne LaPierre and his group of elitist scumbags are living like royalty off of the member dues. It disgusts me. >:(
Sorry but as far as I am concerned , the NWTF of today can go pound sand. Like anything else , some sleaze bags take a good thing and turn it into their personal life of luxury. I have not seen them do a thing in my area since the early 90's. Sure the local chapters have banquets and youth hunts but as far as habitat and the birds themselves... nada.
"N"ow "W"here's "T"hose "F"unds
I enjoy both Unicoi and NWTF convention .. glad to have them , agree it could be a lot worst , but we all need to protect our heritage and our 2nd amendment. I will continue supporting these organizations, that support what i love doing and that's hunting in general .. small game , deer , turkey etc... I'm disappointed to see some of use bickering over the NWTF ... regardless they still stand for US .. not liberal's or socialist who want to take our rights away everyday .. YOU NEED TO THINK....
On a local level our chapter does some great things. Spring turkey clinic for youth and interested non hunters, women in the outdoors activities, buying trees for some of the local public lands, college scholarships, youth hunts for doves, ducks and turkeys.
I will say I get tired of them whoring out Kansas as a mecca when numbers have dropped precipitously. I contacted the biologist several years and they kept saying they would come back. Now that they havent guys are hitting the panic button. I hadnt been to a banquet in a couple years. Amazing how few people go anymore, and how little stuff goes for at the auction.
Quote from: nativeks on February 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
On a local level our chapter does some great things. Spring turkey clinic for youth and interested non hunters, women in the outdoors activities, buying trees for some of the local public lands, college scholarships, youth hunts for doves, ducks and turkeys.
I will say I get tired of them whoring out Kansas as a mecca when numbers have dropped precipitously. I contacted the biologist several years and they kept saying they would come back. Now that they havent guys are hitting the panic button. I hadnt been to a banquet in a couple years. Amazing how few people go anymore, and how little stuff goes for at the auction.
We have the oldest Chapter in Tennessee and every year we have 250 - 325 people attend the banquet .. great showing and lot's of local support form the community ...
I've been a NWTF member since 1979. Back in the day, I hunted with Rob Keck and a few other officers, and knew them quite well. All good people and dedicated to the betterment of the wild turkey. Now...over the years, did they benefit financially from their positions? Yes they did! But show me any LARGE conservation organization whereas the upper echelon isn't compensated with high salaries, perks etc. Take the NRA. Yes, LaPierre has become a multi-millionaire as a result...and I imagine some of the other higher-ups in the NRA as well. But let's do away with the NRA...where do you think you'd be? You're firearms would have been ground up as they were in England and Australia! Don't kid yourself.
Yes, I'm jealous of the salaries, perks et al of NWTF, NRA, SCI etc. but it is what it is. If these conservation organizations didn't exist we'd be in a heap of dodo...again, don't kid yourself.
Man all this salary talk about what Non profit officers make is making me feel like a borrowed mule. I have served 5 years as Chairman of the board and chief fiscal officer of a charity and I ain't made a dime, but I have spent a few hundred dollars for administrative expenses out of my own pocket. I guess I'm just not smart enough to get paid.
On the serious side, I believe in what I'm doing and never took it on for anything other than to serve a need. Of course we are pretty small and it only requires about 8-10 hrs a week of my time.
Serving a need is what people in non profits should be about. If your heart is in the cause should you expect pay equal to Corporate leadership for profit. I am first to say if a person devotes full time to a job they deserve to be paid, but wouldn't it be reasonable to take less for a good cause? I think 6 figures is not unreasonable for the lead of a 40 million organization, but $350,000 plus perks might be a tad high. Here's an example that is comparable, Chief of the Ohio Division of Wildlife made $99,142.00 (per Ohio's treasurers transparency web page) in 2018 with no perks. The ODW annual budget is around $60 million annually. I guarantee you that person is doing more for sportsmen/women than the NWTF CEO. Seems a little unfair to me.
Quote from: nativeks on February 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
On a local level our chapter does some great things. Spring turkey clinic for youth and interested non hunters, women in the outdoors activities, buying trees for some of the local public lands, college scholarships, youth hunts for doves, ducks and turkeys.
I will say I get tired of them whoring out Kansas as a mecca when numbers have dropped precipitously. I contacted the biologist several years and they kept saying they would come back. Now that they havent guys are hitting the panic button. I hadnt been to a banquet in a couple years. Amazing how few people go anymore, and how little stuff goes for at the auction.
Thats great. How are they helping the birds again? As far as trees , our state gives them out freely to anyone who will plant them. Pines that is. Instead of focusing on clinics and hunts for everyone , how about spending some on getting rid of nest predators , protecting hardwood forest , re stocking and just wild turkey habitat in general. When they started , populations exploded and expanded. Fast forward and turkey populations have been dwindling nation wide as a whole. Just my opinion.
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 17, 2020, 04:03:58 PM
I enjoy both Unicoi and NWTF convention .. glad to have them , agree it could be a lot worst , but we all need to protect our heritage and our 2nd amendment. I will continue supporting these organizations, that support what i love doing and that's hunting in general .. small game , deer , turkey etc... I'm disappointed to see some of use bickering over the NWTF ... regardless they still stand for US .. not liberal's or socialist who want to take our rights away everyday .. YOU NEED TO THINK....
I really dont think no one is bickering really. I just think we are all giving our opinions. Hope no one gets their feathers ruffled over a post that we are having an adult conversation. Every topic here is based on opinions really. Just my thought.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 17, 2020, 04:43:34 PM
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 17, 2020, 04:03:58 PM
I enjoy both Unicoi and NWTF convention .. glad to have them , agree it could be a lot worst , but we all need to protect our heritage and our 2nd amendment. I will continue supporting these organizations, that support what i love doing and that's hunting in general .. small game , deer , turkey etc... I'm disappointed to see some of use bickering over the NWTF ... regardless they still stand for US .. not liberal's or socialist who want to take our rights away everyday .. YOU NEED TO THINK....
I really dont think no one is bickering really. I just think we are all giving our opinions. Hope no one gets their feathers ruffled over a post that we are having an adult conversation. Every topic here is based on opinions really. Just my thought.
I agree it's all about opinions , but in the end , we all need to stand together .. and not lose these organizations that stand for US ... I supported these organization for years for others to enjoy and NOW, I'm still going to support these organization for my grandkids and i hope they do the same one day for their kids.
I don't feel like we've been bickering. I think it's been a pretty civil discussion and at worse a healthy debate. I hope no one ever took that I was personally criticizing them for defending the NWTF.
Also, I have not called for them to disappear. What I have been saying is that there are better places and ways to spend my conservation dollars and that they have strayed from the primary mission. This does not detract from what good the NWTF may do towards education, recruitment and defense of our sport. I choose not to pay high salaries and operational cost for a group that has seemed to have lost focus on what sportsmen expect of them. What would bring me back is for them to reorganize and realign. It's not that I don't support conservation and even political action, I just don't do it through the NWTF. I do think that the NWTF (in it's present state) could disappear and the Wild Turkey populations would see zero impact from their demise. I don't even think turkey hunting would suffer. Do I hope that happens, absolutely not. I may be totally wrong, but that's what this discussion is about, our disappointment.
Quote from: eggshell on February 17, 2020, 06:53:53 PM
I don't feel like we've been bickering. I think it's been a pretty civil discussion and at worse a healthy debate. I hope no one ever took that I was personally criticizing them for defending the NWTF.
Also, I have not called for them to disappear. What I have been saying is that there are better places and ways to spend my conservation dollars and that they have strayed from the primary mission. This does not detract from what good the NWTF may do towards education, recruitment and defense of our sport. I choose not to pay high salaries and operational cost for a group that has seemed to have lost focus on what sportsmen expect of them. What would bring me back is for them to reorganize and realign. It's not that I don't support conservation and even political action, I just don't do it through the NWTF. I do think that the NWTF (in it's present state) could disappear and the Wild Turkey populations would see zero impact from their demise. I don't even think turkey hunting would suffer. Do I hope that happens, absolutely not. I may be totally wrong, but that's what this discussion is about, our disappointment.
You hit the nail on the head!
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Quote from: eggshell on February 17, 2020, 06:53:53 PM
I don't feel like we've been bickering. I think it's been a pretty civil discussion and at worse a healthy debate. I hope no one ever took that I was personally criticizing them for defending the NWTF.
Also, I have not called for them to disappear. What I have been saying is that there are better places and ways to spend my conservation dollars and that they have strayed from the primary mission. This does not detract from what good the NWTF may do towards education, recruitment and defense of our sport. I choose not to pay high salaries and operational cost for a group that has seemed to have lost focus on what sportsmen expect of them. What would bring me back is for them to reorganize and realign. It's not that I don't support conservation and even political action, I just don't do it through the NWTF. I do think that the NWTF (in it's present state) could disappear and the Wild Turkey populations would see zero impact from their demise. I don't even think turkey hunting would suffer. Do I hope that happens, absolutely not. I may be totally wrong, but that's what this discussion is about, our disappointment.
I understanding what your saying .. But 35 dollars year is not going to break me either way.. that's less than what most spend on carton of cigarettes ever week... But i will agree if you don't want to support the NWTF , then that's your choice. Good post either way .
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 17, 2020, 08:13:38 PM
Quote from: eggshell on February 17, 2020, 06:53:53 PM
I don't feel like we've been bickering. I think it's been a pretty civil discussion and at worse a healthy debate. I hope no one ever took that I was personally criticizing them for defending the NWTF.
Also, I have not called for them to disappear. What I have been saying is that there are better places and ways to spend my conservation dollars and that they have strayed from the primary mission. This does not detract from what good the NWTF may do towards education, recruitment and defense of our sport. I choose not to pay high salaries and operational cost for a group that has seemed to have lost focus on what sportsmen expect of them. What would bring me back is for them to reorganize and realign. It's not that I don't support conservation and even political action, I just don't do it through the NWTF. I do think that the NWTF (in it's present state) could disappear and the Wild Turkey populations would see zero impact from their demise. I don't even think turkey hunting would suffer. Do I hope that happens, absolutely not. I may be totally wrong, but that's what this discussion is about, our disappointment.
I understanding what your saying .. But 35 dollars year is not going to break me either way.. that's less than what most spend on carton of cigarettes ever week... But i will agree if you don't want to support the NWTF , then that's your choice. Good post either way .
It's not about the 35 dollars so to speak, it's about what they are doing with it.
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Quote from: Gentry on February 17, 2020, 09:15:13 PM
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 17, 2020, 08:13:38 PM
Quote from: eggshell on February 17, 2020, 06:53:53 PM
I don't feel like we've been bickering. I think it's been a pretty civil discussion and at worse a healthy debate. I hope no one ever took that I was personally criticizing them for defending the NWTF.
Also, I have not called for them to disappear. What I have been saying is that there are better places and ways to spend my conservation dollars and that they have strayed from the primary mission. This does not detract from what good the NWTF may do towards education, recruitment and defense of our sport. I choose not to pay high salaries and operational cost for a group that has seemed to have lost focus on what sportsmen expect of them. What would bring me back is for them to reorganize and realign. It's not that I don't support conservation and even political action, I just don't do it through the NWTF. I do think that the NWTF (in it's present state) could disappear and the Wild Turkey populations would see zero impact from their demise. I don't even think turkey hunting would suffer. Do I hope that happens, absolutely not. I may be totally wrong, but that's what this discussion is about, our disappointment.
I understanding what your saying .. But 35 dollars year is not going to break me either way.. that's less than what most spend on carton of cigarettes ever week... But i will agree if you don't want to support the NWTF , then that's your choice. Good post either way .
It's not about the 35 dollars so to speak, it's about what they are doing with it.
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Look if they take 10 dollars of my 35 dollars and help the youth or anyone for that matter it's a win for me .. now what they do with the other 25 dollars , i hope they help us anyway they can.. omg... If you don't want to support them , don't .. it's your choice..
Quote from: fallhnt on February 17, 2020, 07:09:18 AM
The Rob Keck salary was a shock to me and even at state levels there are 6 figures.
Any conservation organization is better than not being a part of one.
Maybe you guys are new to the sport but....
By 2000 the NWTF goal was to be done with stocking of turkey.
Now they have the save the habitat save the hunt. Get it?
Look around, all wildlife is losing habitat.
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I do agree...habit loss is substantial, and with rising turkey hunter numbers in big time turkey hunting states, it doesn't go well with habitat loss and peoples inability to not kill every turkey they encounter. its a doomed situation for sure.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 17, 2020, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: nativeks on February 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
On a local level our chapter does some great things. Spring turkey clinic for youth and interested non hunters, women in the outdoors activities, buying trees for some of the local public lands, college scholarships, youth hunts for doves, ducks and turkeys.
I will say I get tired of them whoring out Kansas as a mecca when numbers have dropped precipitously. I contacted the biologist several years and they kept saying they would come back. Now that they havent guys are hitting the panic button. I hadnt been to a banquet in a couple years. Amazing how few people go anymore, and how little stuff goes for at the auction.
Thats great. How are they helping the birds again? As far as trees , our state gives them out freely to anyone who will plant them. Pines that is. Instead of focusing on clinics and hunts for everyone , how about spending some on getting rid of nest predators , protecting hardwood forest , re stocking and just wild turkey habitat in general. When they started , populations exploded and expanded. Fast forward and turkey populations have been dwindling wide as a whole. Just my opinion.
would be nice to get some legislation to make foresters keep some limited amount of hardwoods on timber company land. nothing necessarily excessive or anything that would cripple loggers but dagnam a little more timber on the creeks wouldn't hurt them at all and would vastly help wildlife.
Quote from: dzsmith on February 18, 2020, 02:03:30 AM
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 17, 2020, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: nativeks on February 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
On a local level our chapter does some great things. Spring turkey clinic for youth and interested non hunters, women in the outdoors activities, buying trees for some of the local public lands, college scholarships, youth hunts for doves, ducks and turkeys.
I will say I get tired of them whoring out Kansas as a mecca when numbers have dropped precipitously. I contacted the biologist several years and they kept saying they would come back. Now that they havent guys are hitting the panic button. I hadnt been to a banquet in a couple years. Amazing how few people go anymore, and how little stuff goes for at the auction.
Thats great. How are they helping the birds again? As far as trees , our state gives them out freely to anyone who will plant them. Pines that is. Instead of focusing on clinics and hunts for everyone , how about spending some on getting rid of nest predators , protecting hardwood forest , re stocking and just wild turkey habitat in general. When they started , populations exploded and expanded. Fast forward and turkey populations have been dwindling wide as a whole. Just my opinion.
would be nice to get some legislation to make foresters keep some limited amount of hardwoods on timber company land. nothing necessarily excessive or anything that would cripple loggers but dagnam a little more timber on the creeks wouldn't hurt them at all and would vastly help wildlife.
Many timber company's have adopted a SMZ (stream management zone), but I'm 100% in agreement with you that it should be mandated by the state. I've always said there should be a 100' buffer along upland drains and a 300' buffer along creeks/bayous.
But I'm from AR and anything that could slow down logging is like spitting in mammas face.
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 03:37:51 PM
Do people not realize that the more members an organization like this can report can greatly increase the amount of support and pull they can get for fighting for the things we all deem important.
And conservation projects on the number of acres the nwtf has affected and renting the opryland hotel with an extra room this year, is not free.
Look up sometime the $ amount the nwtf has put on the ground and how many turkeys they have spread across the country.
If you have had the chance to hunt turkeys in the last 20 years, you should buy an nwtf membership every year.
I have paid $15-20 to get into gun shows that i can walk through in 15 minutes and see everything. But the nwtf costs $35 now and they give you a $25 gift card, and you guys want to complain?
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Exactly! Well put...The habitat development doesn't come free. Try to buy a couple of acres these days.
That and representatives of NWTF coordinate with state wildlife agencies to get things done that the depts., frankly, don't have much interest in doing.
I understand some of the frustration but if not for NWTF, I don't believe turkeys would be in the places they are. That's an indisputable fact here in South Jersey.
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Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on February 16, 2020, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: Gentry on February 16, 2020, 07:51:29 PM
I was part of an NWTF chapter for a while and finally realized that I really didn't agree with what was happening. I think the organization was beneficial to the wild turkey at one time, but I have never seen their presence or evidence of their presence anywhere that I personally hunt or have hunted, and populations seem to be falling everywhere. Where are they doing anything to help a single turkey?
I will go as far as to say that the NWTF's promotion of the sport for monetary gain is doing our precious turkeys more harm than good.
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If you have hunted turkeys, are able to have guns, seen more abundant wildlife, you have definitely seen the presence of the nwtf, whether you knew it or not.
And, the nwtf id helping fund and provide personnel to several states to study the decline in turkeys.
If you think that anyone promoting hunting is hurting the sport, when hunter numbers are falling drastically on a national level, you are selfish or ignorant.
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Well I guess I struck a nerve. They must sign your check.
I can agree with your first paragraph. Although I was not aware they have helped us maintain our 2nd amendment in anyway.
Where are the hunter numbers dramatically falling? I've heard this before but have never seen proof, but I have not looked for it. I don't think they falling one bit. Definitely not in the SE. I believe they are more turkey hunters in the woods now than ever before. I would like to see the numbers. We are all selfish to some existent when it comes to turkey hunting. Ignorant nah I don't believe so. That's all I have to say about this topic.
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Don't know about other states but here in N.J, hunter numbers have declined dramatically.
I recall, as a young man, most kids wanted to hunt and a good number of them did.
Now hunters are fairly uncommon. Kids are plugged in and have little interest in hunting.
Gun laws and loss of habitat have contributed even more to the decline.
I can envision a time in the not too distant future when, here in N.J., hunters will have such a diminished presence that they will be politically extinguished.
We need all the organizations that are pro hunter/pro gun rights that we can get.
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Do I believe the NWTF could be better stewards of their funds? Yes I do. I'm just a regular joe who hunts some small private lands and public land where the birds could not be pressured any harder. But as long as I can go to the convention and run into the likes of Clay Townsend, Matt McClain, and Richard Hudson, there will always be a place for me there.
Quote from: Spurs on February 18, 2020, 08:12:28 AM
Quote from: dzsmith on February 18, 2020, 02:03:30 AM
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 17, 2020, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: nativeks on February 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
On a local level our chapter does some great things. Spring turkey clinic for youth and interested non hunters, women in the outdoors activities, buying trees for some of the local public lands, college scholarships, youth hunts for doves, ducks and turkeys.
I will say I get tired of them whoring out Kansas as a mecca when numbers have dropped precipitously. I contacted the biologist several years and they kept saying they would come back. Now that they havent guys are hitting the panic button. I hadnt been to a banquet in a couple years. Amazing how few people go anymore, and how little stuff goes for at the auction.
Thats great. How are they helping the birds again? As far as trees , our state gives them out freely to anyone who will plant them. Pines that is. Instead of focusing on clinics and hunts for everyone , how about spending some on getting rid of nest predators , protecting hardwood forest , re stocking and just wild turkey habitat in general. When they started , populations exploded and expanded. Fast forward and turkey populations have been dwindling wide as a whole. Just my opinion.
would be nice to get some legislation to make foresters keep some limited amount of hardwoods on timber company land. nothing necessarily excessive or anything that would cripple loggers but dagnam a little more timber on the creeks wouldn't hurt them at all and would vastly help wildlife.
Many timber company's have adopted a SMZ (stream management zone), but I'm 100% in agreement with you that it should be mandated by the state. I've always said there should be a 100' buffer along upland drains and a 300' buffer along creeks/bayous.
But I'm from AR and anything that could slow down logging is like spitting in mammas face.
we have smz here to....its only a suggested action...they don't technically have to leave 50ft....and typically if its not a flowing creek they don't. but 50 ft is nothing, its an insult at best. 16 yards of trees on creek bank. I think it should be a 50 yard minimum personally. that would be awesome. and the timber people love to argue about it...."we plant more trees than we cut" yeah you do because you harvest them at younger ages than you ever have so we are planting trees faster so we can cut them faster. The timber on a lease im in gets gut before the canopy thickens up enough for the woods to be open enough for a turkey to even use.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 17, 2020, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: nativeks on February 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
On a local level our chapter does some great things. Spring turkey clinic for youth and interested non hunters, women in the outdoors activities, buying trees for some of the local public lands, college scholarships, youth hunts for doves, ducks and turkeys.
I will say I get tired of them whoring out Kansas as a mecca when numbers have dropped precipitously. I contacted the biologist several years and they kept saying they would come back. Now that they havent guys are hitting the panic button. I hadnt been to a banquet in a couple years. Amazing how few people go anymore, and how little stuff goes for at the auction.
Thats great. How are they helping the birds again? As far as trees , our state gives them out freely to anyone who will plant them. Pines that is. Instead of focusing on clinics and hunts for everyone , how about spending some on getting rid of nest predators , protecting hardwood forest , re stocking and just wild turkey habitat in general. When they started , populations exploded and expanded. Fast forward and turkey populations have been dwindling wide as a whole. Just my opinion.
Hardwood forests are not natural here. We did have a native grass drill people could use. Ive used it. Also used to donate to prescribed fire on a local public lands.
Turkey numbers exploded like you see when a new species comes in. Much like zebra mussels the population exploded, plateaus, and then declines to a new baseline as predators and such learn to utilize it as food. You can transplant all you want but if the habitat isnt there it does no good. There are more creeks and fencerows being pushed out in the name of production right now than you can shake a stick at. Fescue invasion is taking over pastures as is the eastern red cedar. We have conservation programs available already that producers dont want to utilize, so getting the nwtf into the game when this state is 97% private is moot.
That type of land use change isn't going to happen for the turkey. It didn't happen for the ringneck pheasant. Exactly right, without habitat, then trap/transfer, etc. is useless.
For example, it took a significantly impaired Chesapeake Bay and its low dissolved O2 and elevated N2 levels, and the resulting decline in economic and recreation value, to have some measurable success making such changes in the huge, multi-state watershed. And the path forward to restore the bay to water quality / biodiversity health its still not easy as it costs money and requires changes in land use habits.
The NWTF isn't fixing that problem.