So this past Saturday I was able to harvest a gobbler. I was so excited. I shot him at about 30 yards. He was faced directly away from me but I shot the top of his back and tore up his head (actually did a front flip). When I got to the bird the first thing I saw was his beard. It was about 8 to 10 inches which isn't bad for an Eastern Turkey here in the state of Kentucky. Then I looked for his spurs and didn't see any. I looked at them closely and to my suprise didn't even have nubs or anything on either leg. So I then looked at his head to make sure that I shot a gobbler. He had a big ole head and at this point, I'm possivitve that shot a gobbler. But I've got a couple of questions which are, has anyone else seen this before? How in the world do you age a bird like this?
Seen it several times. If he has Amber colored tips on his beard he's more than likely a 2 year old. If the tips are black, his age is nothing more than a guess. Any pictures of him?
I shot a two year old merriams last year with no spurs. Definitely a surprise!
Never heard that before. I didn't know you could age a bird by his beard.
Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 12:02:14 PM
Seen it several times. If he has Amber colored tips on his beard he's more than likely a 2 year old. If the tips are black, his age is nothing more than a guess. Any pictures of him?
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I killed a big MO Tom last year with nubs that didn't go past his skin. You could kid tell where the spurs were supposed to be but they just never grew in it looked like. Also heard of guys that've killed complete no spurred gobblers similar to what you're describing.
Like double beards and such I'm sure they're just a genetic thing.
I do have pics of him on my phone. I'm trying to upload them now. But that's crazy that you mentioned Amber as his beard for the first inch is black then turns brown or amber then black again and then amber with black mixed in it.
I'll try to post the pics as soon as they go through from my phone to email.
Quote from: BigSlam51 on April 23, 2019, 12:06:31 PM
Never heard that before. I didn't know you could age a bird by his beard.Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 12:02:14 PM
Seen it several times. If he has Amber colored tips on his beard he's more than likely a 2 year old. If the tips are black, his age is nothing more than a guess. Any pictures of him?
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Lovett E. Williams, Jr. talks about it in his book "The Book of the Wild Turkey" Lotta neat stuff in that book.
Here it is without any spurs.
Congrats. A trophy none the less.
Quote from: BigSlam51 on April 23, 2019, 12:06:31 PM
Never heard that before. I didn't know you could age a bird by his beard.Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 12:02:14 PM
Seen it several times. If he has Amber colored tips on his beard he's more than likely a 2 year old. If the tips are black, his age is nothing more than a guess. Any pictures of him?
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They have Amber tips until the beard gets long enough to drag the ground while feeding. Once the ground wears away the Amber tips it becomes a guessing game. There are exceptions like beard rot in older birds that will give off colored tips, but that's usually pretty obvious.
Quote from: uk.turkey.hunter on April 23, 2019, 12:15:06 PM
Here it is without any spurs.
Do you have pictures of his head and beard?
Just got it downloaded to the computer but here it is. I really like the colors in the beard like that. I personally haven't seen that in a Tom before.
Definitely a turkey that I'm super happy about. To me it's a very unique bird. I'm going to hang his beard an legs on a painted white board with a date above it as a way to remember it by. Will always have a story about this bird. lol
My buddy shot a Merriams in North Dakota this year and it had no spurs. 9 inch beard and weighted 28 lbs. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/38ccd62c8bbd584eedb04b3928ea7b84.jpg)
Thanks for the pictures. Looks like you shot a bearded hen, at least a he/she.
I'd do a display with the beard and legs, fan, wings and all. A unique bird for sure, yes it happens and I have killed one, wish I would have kept them....
MK M GOBL
It was a crazy Saturday to say the least. That morning I saw 2 bobcats. One of those bobcats came within 10ft of me. While I'm doing my rounds after seeing those 2 bobcats, I saw a coyote. I decided to hunt that coyote and cut him off. I ended up shooting the coyote at about 30 yards.
Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 12:02:14 PM
Seen it several times. If he has Amber colored tips on his beard he's more than likely a 2 year old. If the tips are black, his age is nothing more than a guess. Any pictures of him?
X2, though I have never killed one with no spurs, but know of a few that have
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Quote from: davisd9 on April 23, 2019, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 12:02:14 PM
Seen it several times. If he has Amber colored tips on his beard he's more than likely a 2 year old. If the tips are black, his age is nothing more than a guess. Any pictures of him?
X2, though I have never killed one with no spurs, but know of a few that have
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Even being a hen it's still a legal bird in KY. Some states it's illegal.
Yep that appears to be a bearded hen.
Quote from: POk3s on April 23, 2019, 01:11:45 PM
Yep that appears to be a bearded hen.
But the head doesn't appear to be a hens head. Would you agree?
From the picture it resembles a gobblers head, that's why I said he/she. Look at the breast feathers of a gobbler compared to yours.
Sure looks like a bearded hen to me, based on coloration and lack of spurs. No evidence of any strutting wear on the primaries either. Might find some eggs when you clean her up. Largest beard I've seen yet on a bearded hen. Could definitely be having some hormonal issues.
Quote from: uk.turkey.hunter on April 23, 2019, 01:16:17 PM
Quote from: POk3s on April 23, 2019, 01:11:45 PM
Yep that appears to be a bearded hen.
But the head doesn't appear to be a hens head. Would you agree?
Looks like a hen's Head to me. The head is thin and drab in color, along with the body being brown. The only thing that doesn't look hen like is that big ol beard! Hahaha
That's a Caitlyn Jenner
Quote from: turkey_slayer on April 23, 2019, 02:15:53 PM
That's a Caitlyn Jenner
I thought the same but did not want to say it lol
So I've sent pictures and information to the Kentucky Fish and Wildlife to see what they have to say about it. We shall see.
Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 01:27:42 PM
From the picture it resembles a gobblers head, that's why I said he/she. Look at the breast feathers of a gobbler compared to yours.
My thoughts exactly. Face of a male, body of a female but bearded. Caitlin Jenner turk for sure.
I have killed one with a double beard and no spurs.
Quote from: uk.turkey.hunter on April 23, 2019, 02:49:42 PM
So I've sent pictures and information to the Kentucky Fish and Wildlife to see what they have to say about it. We shall see.
I'd be interested in their reply.
First long-beard I ever shot here in MS had an 8 1/2" beard and not even bumps on his legs. Called one up for a friend in TX this year - same thing. Not even a bump. His bird had a 10 1/2" beard.
Yours in definitely unique with the color of that beard.
I've seen a couple hermaphrodite ducks. I actually have one mounted. Never heard of a hermaphrodite turkey, but who knows.
So this is the Kentucky Fish and Wildlife reply:
Based on your picture I would "guess" you have a bearded female turkey (unless it was gobbling). I say this due to the complete lack of spurs (not even bumps) and due to the breast color of the feathers. On females the breast feathers have buffy tips, males have black tips on the breast feathers.
That is just my guess. Males can be missing spurs, although this is rare. Females can have beards, also rare. And to make it even more confusing you could have a bird with male and female genes/hormones that are equally expressed.
Very interesting stuff for sure.
Enlarged caruncles is correlated to a sign of testosterone in a turkey, the larger the "neck balls" are, the more testosterone they have.
Seems to be a hen that definitely had male genes and hormones.
Quote from: HookedonHooks on April 23, 2019, 04:45:49 PM
Very interesting stuff for sure.
Enlarged caruncles is correlated to a sign of testosterone in a turkey, the larger the "neck balls" are, the more testosterone they have.
Seems to be a hen that definitely had male genes and hormones.
I know! This is just so crazy. I wish I had it mounted now! This is just such a unique bird.
I asked a wildlife biologist in NC. At a wildlife meeting. He said it was not that rare.
Quote from: Clydetaylor1 on April 23, 2019, 06:59:03 PM
I asked a wildlife biologist in NC. At a wildlife meeting. He said it was not that rare.
He may have been talking about bearded hens, which isn't that rare. This bird may be a step above that.
I shot a Gobbler in 2016 with a normal beard and fan not a hint of a spur on either leg no bump nothing. Haven't seen anymore so hopefully he didn't spread the defect.
I shot one last year like that....decent beard, not real thick....but no spurs whatsoever...not even a bump.
He spent 10 mins trying to have sexy time with my hen decoy before i shot him....dont think his gender was in question.
I killed one Monday that only had one spur and the one it had was loose like it wasn't attached to the bone.
Nice beard for a hen.
Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 07:05:18 PM
Quote from: Clydetaylor1 on April 23, 2019, 06:59:03 PM
I asked a wildlife biologist in NC. At a wildlife meeting. He said it was not that rare.
He may have been talking about bearded hens, which isn't that rare. This bird may be a step above that.
I'm talking about a Tom with no spurs. This Tom was boss of the group. He was fighting and strutting.
Looks like a bearded hen bro
Quote from: Clydetaylor1 on April 23, 2019, 06:59:03 PM
I'm talking about a Tom with no spurs. This Tom was boss of the group. He was fighting and strutting.
Got it. I'm sure he's knows more than I do, but based on my past experience I would consider a totally spurless gobbler a bit of an oddity. I've only seen a handful in over 50 years including what myself, friends and family have killed.
The Tom I killed last year did not even have a bump. My buddy killed one with an 11 inch beard in the same spot two days later and it also did not have any spurs.
Congratulations
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Quote from: guesswho on April 23, 2019, 12:36:40 PM
Thanks for the pictures. Looks like you shot a bearded hen, at least a he/she.
It's a weird one for sure. Head looks somewhat gobblerish, and it's got a gobbler-looking beard. ...but the feathers say hen.
True that some toms are spurless. I have seen one. I have seen a handful of bearded hens. I would say I am 90% certain that is a bearded hen. Congrats on the bird.
I've killed 2 completely spotless gobblers and know of 2 others.
Quote from: appalachianassassin on April 25, 2019, 07:55:48 PM
I've killed 2 completely spotless gobblers and know of 2 others.
You kill em in a carwash?
Only second bird I've killed in this area. Both were spurless
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190430/fd6d0cc730e1d82f1625d91689aad228.jpg)
Spurless gobblers aren't that rare. I know of several killed in several states that have slight bumps or nothing at all to resemble a spur. It sucks, but it happens. However, I believe the one posted is a freak hen.
Def not rare. I've killed 3 and know of several others. The original bird I believe has male and female genetics. Gobbler head, hen plumage
You certainly have an interesting bird uk.tutrkey. I would say bearded hen, but there are other interesting things about your bird.
The 2 different colored areas on the beard are from a lack of melanin. Since there are 2 distinct discolored areas there werre 2 periods of stress on the bird. A lack of melanin suggests the turkey was stressed when that portion of the beard was growing. The stress could come from severe weather or disease.
The large (for a hen) caruncles don't seem quite normal (for a gobbler) and I am wondering if it isn't from disease, which would correlate with the beard stress. I know some diseases will make the caruncles on the head swell, but I am not very knowledgeable on turkey disease and how the different diseases might affect a turkey.
Some FWIW's...
Melanin is in feathers too, a beard is a form of a feather. If a birds feathers are growing during a period of melanin deficiency there will be light colored areas in the feathers also. If the lack of melanin is severe enough the feathers/beard can break off.
There was a mention of the tips of the primaries not being worn down from strutting signifying it was a hen. This is not always true. Some hens will have their primary tips worn like a gobblers. Hens will strut or posture for dominance and wear the tips off. Especially the more aggressive hens.
No spurs on a gobbler can be very rare or just a little rare, as can bearded hens or multiple bearded birds. That is genetic and can be more common in one area and extremely rare in another.
Congrats to you. Not commenting at all on what or why you shot it. In SC it's illegal to shoot a bearded hen. Hasn't always been but has been for a good many years now. I can see where a situation with that head poking up and a glimpse of that beard could easily cause that bird to get shot. If it were me and here I'd surely claim entrapment lol.
Bearded hens are fairly common here locally but a big fleshy head with tom sized caruncles on them sure ain't. I've seen the reverse though, a bearded hen with gobbler plumage, shiney black tipped breast feathers but a fuzzy hen head and body size. No idea if there were spurs on her but saw her for a couple years numerous times. Have also killed a full fanned 9" bearded tom with no spurs. This year I called in a tom for a fella that was completely missing one back toe as if there never was one there. Same bird had odd symmetrical creased lines all throughout it's breast feathers. Have also killed a erythristic tom with solid black primaries a few years back. The point is, odd ball turkeys are out there. Just another thing that makes them so interesting.