Ok I have had it come up about the coloring of the chokes. I will be the 1st to say that it has been something that I have been working on. The 17-4 we have used for years but never had to color it. I know of one more company that has had this problem. I will refund the money to anyone that has purchased one and is not happy with the way the choke shoots or looks.
We color the part that is out of the barrel now and that is all. That is all you see. I spend time on what makes a choke shoots not if it will win a looks contest. The target guns will be the shinny ones that will do that. I know that you will always have some folks that you can not make happy. So that is why I say I will just refund money but WILL NOT GIVE STUFF to folks just to keep them from running me or my product down.
Had a member that has not got a choke from me tell me not to post about my chokes. I don't take threats to good. You try to get me to copy a star dot choke. I say no. You say if I give you one or a good deal on one you would help me sale them. This is a problem that started on another web last year. Then came back a month ago. GON.
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I think you need to tell the facts here instead of trying to mislead members here. The choke you sold a member here I wouldn't give you $5 for it. And I think you need to rethink what you try and put words in others mouths and post it here. Like I said, make your chokes right for finish and machining first before you try and push them on members here. The choke you sold a member here was terrible for appearence and finish.
Why would you even think about selling a choke for $65 that looked like this to anyone let alone ask that kind of money for it?
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/001-2-1.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/002-1-1.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/003-2.jpg)
The one I saw on the chain beards-n- bones tv shows looked good..the worked pretty well too! I also saw a slide show of them elsewhere that showed some very nice looking chokes.
That's all fun and games..yea, I've seen some chokes that flat out looked" cooler" , but were just not worth it..cause looks don't kill nor make em pattern any better.
Its all about the patterns :you_rock:.. :z-guntootsmiley:
:goofball:& :anim_25: to the rest!
The part that is out of the barrel is black. Not but about a 1/2 inch that is out of the barrel. The steps they told us to go by to put it on will make it look good. Then you take a rag it will wipe off and be silver. I found that you could do it the way we do it now and it stay. We get the part that is out of the barrel black and the rest is not worked with. It can be turned but I did not do it. One think it will do by leaving it silver you will know it is SS. I will refund his money if he wants not if you want. You jump form choke to choke on this site and all others. One day it is IC then Star Dot then Prue Gold. You cant make your mind up who you want to support or run down.
I will fix the problem on the looks when we find a step that will change the SS. Until then I will sale chokes to folks that know what they want and will get.
Funny thing is that now you have one.
Ilikehevi...im not gonna post mine..but if u think that one looks bad..u should see mine..its turned just like a choke should be, but not knurled completely on the outside. WHY? cause I bugged William all day with a gun that never shot great and he had to go to work ..he also never complained one bit about me taking up all his time and trying and shooting HIS shells and building several chokes. He turned my choke like any other on the inside, but the outside he just didn't have the time to fully machine it like he wanted to..and u know what..I don't care. It shoots like hell any way.
368 in a 10" circle at a lasered 40 is why people are gon a buy Sumtoy chokes. I have not seen very many shoot that high. This was in a 20" bbl to boot that was dirty as crap. The internals of sumtoy chokes is where its at.
If u want looks go to jebs..cause they look neat..
I want what will shoot the best and somebody that I can work with as well and who stands behind their product. Sumtoy will do that for anybody..try him instead of bashing. If u wanna, try to outshout him..
I buy what shoots good. At the same time they look good too. My Pure Gold choke put up great numbers as well as the Star Dot and it didn't need Nitro loads to do it. Heck the Tru-Glo SSX looks a lot better and cost about half as much as what your asking.
If people want to pay you for a choke that looks like that then that is their business. I know I won't nor could you give me one that looked like that let alone ask the money you are asking for them.
Quote from: SumToy on April 24, 2011, 04:46:15 PM
Well like I said we stand behind what we sale like all the other companies will do. Now if any one wants to know about my product feel free to ask me or someone that has one.
Now the 835 is not machined on the outside. It is .875 OD and the stock is .875. So we sand the OD of the choke. Most all of it is one the inside of the barrel with our choke. We have looked into the one inch bar just for the 835. Now with just the small amount that is out the barrel I did not think would make a big deal. If CUSTERMERS want me to make them that way I will. I go on feed back form the guys that shoot them not from folks that just looking for something free. I will be doing a PINK one for a few folks.
I feel that if you dont have one dont talk about one.
Well I now know why you didn't post pictures of your chokes. But now it is out in the open for all to see and if they want one then they now know what they are getting and what to expect. But I know a little about what chokes shoot especially in the 835's. You got a long way to go to beat the Star Dot or the Pure Gold. And that ain't just on appearence either.
Like I said..I ain't seen any match my numbers yet. Im gon.a get the hevi 7s and shoot again. I will let all know how they do. Looks are one thing, but if there are better shooters out there, that's what im going with. Im not in the woods competing with anybody to see who can look good..im out there to kill a gobbler and I want the best products I can get to help me do so. Yea, shooting good, high patterns is fun for internet bs..but it all boils down to killing.
I know Sumtoy is not as know..yet..as others, but he produces top quality stuff. U need to reconsider your decisions here..and don't base it on what was sent to the other guy, although im sure it performed top notch. Not sure on the story of that choke and don't really care..but he can make one look as good as u want ..I've seen em..but again ..it don't matter in the end as long as it shoot good.
Btw..my nitros were triplex loads and not straight 7s
Why is because I have never needed to post. All mine in the past have been silver. All the folks that have got them in the past like them silver. Now that is folks around GA. Now we have had to try to turn them black. We will have them in the silver or this black until we find another process to change the color.
One more thing that we would like to let folks know that is if you are going to put them in a O/U let me know. We will need to trun the O.D. of the choke down.
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Quote from: fountain on April 24, 2011, 04:55:17 PM
Like I said..I ain't seen any match my numbers yet. Im gon.a get the hevi 7s and shoot again. I will let all know how they do. Looks are one thing, but if there are better shooters out there, that's what im going with. Im not in the woods competing with anybody to see who can look good..im out there to kill a gobbler and I want the best products I can get to help me do so. Yea, shooting good, high patterns is fun for internet bs..but it all boils down to killing.
I know Sumtoy is not as know..yet..as others, but he produces top quality stuff. U need to reconsider your decisions here..and don't base it on what was sent to the other guy, although im sure it performed top notch. Not sure on the story of that choke and don't really care..but he can make one look as good as u want ..I've seen em..but again ..it don't matter in the end as long as it shoot good.
Btw..my nitros were triplex loads and not straight 7s
Your nitros were about $8 a shell and probably has more 7's and 8's than anything. The Hevi-13 straight 7 loads run less than $5 a shell. And they are factory loads and not reloads just so you know.
And I would only hope for his part that he starts pretty quickly by making them look a whole lot better than this one. That choke wouldn't bring $5 on gunbroker.
U right..it wouldn't cause its in the gun and not coming out. It shoots too good to sell. I see nothing wrong with the numbers he is getting. I'll get the hevi 7s and show u that it will shoot with the star dot or pg. I consider a gun shooting 300+ to be super...a 20" bbl doing it is even better.
Yep the nitros were high..that's fine by me..and why is my shot different that your hevi..same stuff..same inconsistency in shot in both loads. Yours were still all little stuff with mine having 4s and 5s humming around in it. Its still a good high count and very even to boot. Get some and try them in your chokes for comparison.
wtf does it matter what it looks like.does it shoot??? if so paint it what ever fricken color you want.if not return it.if you dont like the way it looks dont buy one its that simple.no need to bash the guy who is trying to work with you to get what you need instead of mass produceing ones that work in some guns not others.to me i dont care what it looks like if it shoots wal mart has 100s of colors.
No bashing just posting pictures of what your going to get. I don't see nothing wrong with doing that. If you think that a choke that looks like that for $65 is a bargain then buy all you want.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on April 24, 2011, 06:29:08 PM
No bashing just posting pictures of what your going to get. I don't see nothing wrong with doing that. If you think that a choke that looks like that for $65 is a bargain then buy all you want.
i will thank you.customer service makes it a bargain.
Quote from: pitjeep on April 24, 2011, 06:10:38 PM
wtf does it matter what it looks like.does it shoot??? if so paint it what ever fricken color you want.if not return it.if you dont like the way it looks dont buy one its that simple.no need to bash the guy who is trying to work with you to get what you need instead of mass produceing ones that work in some guns not others.to me i dont care what it looks like if it shoots wal mart has 100s of colors.
MINE SHOOTS GREAT
i believe william said that he recognized that he had a problem with the coloring of his chokes and was working on fixing them, so why not give him a chance to try and fix the problem before you bash his product, if you dont like the product then dont buy it and if you bought one and aren't satisfied with it then like he said he offers a money back guarantee so get a refund
stainless isnt easy to color ...walmart makes it easy.
Quote from: pitjeep on April 24, 2011, 07:15:55 PM
stainless isnt easy to color ...walmart makes it easy.
Pure Gold is using the same exact stainless and they look great and shoot great.
If I remember correctly this thread isn't much different than the Indian Creek split chokes that were being posted here. People were needing to know and there apparently was a problem. I didn't start this thread here, but I felt the need to defend myself since I knew it was me he was referring too.
Maybe all the other choke makers can start giving us chokes that look like this one here for the same price if that is what you guys are wanting in a choke. Not many turkey calls would be sold by the callmakers here if they made them like that for sure. But again looks are skin deep I guess.
I said what I needed to say, and unless my reputation is questioned again here I now feel better knowing that this is out in the open.
I like killing tukeys i dont think a turkey can see the choke.
JUST SAYING
nothing to see here....move along....lol
Not that it matters any and I'll probably get hammered on for saying so, but I'm sort of with Hevi on this one. When I buy a product I expect it to perform well and be easy to look at as well. Kind of like women I guess.... :z-guntootsmiley:
Quote from: lking on April 24, 2011, 07:45:36 PM
Not that it matters any and I'll probably get hammered on for saying so, but I'm sort of with Hevi on this one. When I buy a product I expect it to perform well and be easy to look at as well. Kind of like women I guess.... :z-guntootsmiley:
Im with ya. The ladies like a man with a sexy gun. :jackson:
I have 2 of Sumtoys chokes and i nor a bird cares what they look like although they look fine to me. a bird is only worried about shot coming out of it not appearences. i had 5 other chokes and Sumtoy is the only one that worked for me. i know of no one else that will take the time to custom make you a choke that you will be happy with. i don't bash others products that is not what this forum is for but i will tell it if something works great for me. as for as looking good you may have a great looking woman who is a great cook, cleaner and mate but what if she gets sick or has a wreck that changes her looks do you bash her or get rid of her or do you appreciate whats underneath, i have shot archery tournaments for years and knew a guy that always dressed toi the teeth, sharp dresser , had the best cloths, best flashest bow arrows etc. but couldnot hit the broad side of a barn but he looked great missing. my point it don't matter what it looks like only how it works and Sumtoy chokes work!
GET CHOKED
GET U ONE OR TWO
ILIKEHEVI13 needs to have some respect. You guys need to realize starting a company is not easy. I am proud for a small company such as Sumtoy!!! Made in USA, money back guarantee, great customer service, what more do u want? Ever dealt with poor customer service from some Damn tongue stumbling foreigner? Ever dealt with Rhino customer service?
Lastly, if I wanted a pretty turkey gun, I would carry a Damn over/under that cost $5000!!!
Keep up the American Dream Sumtoy. As for ILIKEHEVI13, go shoot a big gobbler. You will feel better.
God Bless.
Quote from: spursandbeards on April 24, 2011, 08:33:55 PM
I have 2 of Sumtoys chokes and i nor a bird cares what they look like although they look fine to me. a bird is only worried about shot coming out of it not appearences. i had 5 other chokes and Sumtoy is the only one that worked for me. i know of no one else that will take the time to custom make you a choke that you will be happy with. i don't bash others products that is not what this forum is for but i will tell it if something works great for me. as for as looking good you may have a great looking woman who is a great cook, cleaner and mate but what if she gets sick or has a wreck that changes her looks do you bash her or get rid of her or do you appreciate whats underneath, i have shot archery tournaments for years and knew a guy that always dressed toi the teeth, sharp dresser , had the best cloths, best flashest bow arrows etc. but couldnot hit the broad side of a barn but he looked great missing. my point it don't matter what it looks like only how it works and Sumtoy chokes work!
GET CHOKED
GET U ONE OR TWO
I couldn't agree more BUT for $65 there are a ton of great performing chokes out there, just as good as SumToy chokes, that don't look like $10 chokes
That's the best part about our country....to each their own..... :smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an
Spursandbeards - you are using an analogy that is not relative. Purchasing something firsthand that looks poor vs. having the appearance change over time are 2 completely different situations. Personal expectations in each situation are quite different.
Anywho, enough said for me.
To be quite honest, I respect William's action in his offer of refund. In his very first post, had he simply stopped after paragraph one, I don't think there would be a negative post in this entire thread. Good to see someone stand behind their product.
Quote from: K9-Doc on April 24, 2011, 08:50:41 PM
ILIKEHEVI13 needs to have some respect. You guys need to realize starting a company is not easy. I am proud for a small company such as Sumtoy!!! Made in USA, money back guarantee, great customer service, what more do u want? Ever dealt with poor customer service from some Damn tongue stumbling foreigner? Ever dealt with Rhino customer service?
Lastly, if I wanted a pretty turkey gun, I would carry a Damn over/under that cost $5000!!!
Keep up the American Dream Sumtoy. As for ILIKEHEVI13, go shoot a big gobbler. You will feel better.
God Bless.
I feel fine, and again I didn't start this thread nor did I make that choke and try and sell it to a member here. I did feel the need to tell him that chokes like that won't go over good with most members here. And I would be willing to bet most members won't want to get a choke like that in the mail unless they knew they were buying it like that beforehand is all. That choke for that price and appearence better shoot 400 in a 10" at a true 40yds. Then I might think about buying it if it was maybe half the price and about 75% better finish. But if I got that choke in the mail from any maker it would for sure be going back regardless of how it shoots for that price.
I've shot a lot of different chokes and loads through mossbergs over the years..rhini, kicks, pg, lohman, jh, etc..I was after PERFORMANCE and killing ability. The star dot chokes are ugly to me. Good looking chokes hung out the end of the bbl on some of the above mentioned..but they don't mean jack squat when they can shoot with another. Get what u want..I want what's gonna get me the best I can het along with somebody that will stand behind the products and is open to entertain customer suggestions. William/Sumtoy does that and that's just as important as the function of the product to me.
For me, supporting the local guy is important. I dont know his backing and its none of my business, but I support locals over larger companies when they have products that are competitive. The same goes for turkey calls with me. i use only rut n strut game calls by tim sanford. i met tim a few years ago and got some of his calls and also got to know him personally and the calls sound awesome and i can run them well. there are many good call companies as well as individual call makers like tim out there..but i know him personally and he is good to me and i help him as well..the exact way i feel about william. i called him and then went too meet him and ended up aggrevating him alll day! he knows his stuff and i choose to support his product, again cause i know him personally and he is local for me ..supporting the "little man" in the world helps a lot in my mind.
ilikehevi..if the guy that owns the choke is unhappy with it i will buy it myself if he doesnt send it back. has he even shoot it to see how it shoots or is he just looking at it and turning up his nose? not sure why you are "warning" the people..its nothing like the indian creek thing..its not a quality control thing with them cracking or any malfunctions like that cause these things are very sturdy and are not gonna have any issues like that. i just dont see the price being high..its right in the range of the other companies other than rhino..it outshoots just about them all from MY testing..and i was pretty dern close to 400.. ;D
good night guys, let all go kill turkey with our respective chokes and go home happy.
Well good luck with your choke. I'm glad your tickled with it. But like I said, people needed to know about Indian Creek chokes splitting and the same can be said for these chokes here knowing what your buying beforehand. Like I said most wouldn't pay $65 for that choke for appearence alone forget the way that it shoots. It looks like a hacksaw job to me.
William, might want to clean up some of that spelling on the choke package for future use as well. Mossberg, ulti-mag, choke, and others. Not trying to be disrespectful, just offering a consumer's view.
Well, here are my 2 cents. My best pattern to date is 161 in 10" at 40 yards. I have shot all the popular shells...I have the bruise marks on my shoulder to prove it :). I have used the stock choke, jellyhead, kicks, stardot, indian creek, tight wad. The 161 was with the IC and HS 3.5 #7 (this years lot). Purchased at SumToy. !st shot was 220 in 10" at 40 yards. Talked to William and he said I should be getting better numbers than that and he will send me a couple of other chokes to try in my gun. I don't know ANY other company that would do that. I'll take that kind of service every time over looks. If Pure Gold will keep working with it's customers that don't get the great patterns with their stock chokes, then my hat is off to them too, but I have not heard of that happening.
That choke wouldn't even make it on a Walmart shelf for $5 the way it looks.
And 220 isn't anything to write home about.
And if members now that see this thread and the pictures are content on buying a choke from him and will be happy knowing this is the kind of quality you are going to get in your mailbox then have at it. But my guess is most will be just like me and think what was he thinking.
I still can't believe he would even think about sending that choke out to a member here.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on April 24, 2011, 09:30:52 PM
That choke wouldn't even make it on a Walmart shelf for $5 the way it looks.
And 220 isn't anything to write home about.
Please read the whole post before you reply. William wasn't happy with these numbers either and he is going to continue to work with me and my gun. Would any other company do that?
Quote from: paturkeyhntr on April 24, 2011, 09:38:50 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on April 24, 2011, 09:30:52 PM
That choke wouldn't even make it on a Walmart shelf for $5 the way it looks.
And 220 isn't anything to write home about.
Please read the whole post before you reply. William wasn't happy with these numbers either and he is going to continue to work with me and my gun. Would any other company do that?
Yes.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on April 24, 2011, 09:39:31 PM
Quote from: paturkeyhntr on April 24, 2011, 09:38:50 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on April 24, 2011, 09:30:52 PM
That choke wouldn't even make it on a Walmart shelf for $5 the way it looks.
And 220 isn't anything to write home about.
Please read the whole post before you reply. William wasn't happy with these numbers either and he is going to continue to work with me and my gun. Would any other company do that?
Yes.
Who?
Well after reading all the bs I am going to order a choke from sumtoy real soon here for my sbe 2 and try it out . If it shoots good I will keep it, if it looks good or not... by the way my turkey calls can look like crap also just as long as they sound good...
Pa Turkey,
IC does the same thing. I had a .665 that was only getting in the 230-232 range my JH was getting 302. Stuart said to send it back because it should be over 300 no problem. He is sending out a couple others for me to try so yes there is another company that has excellent service.
Lots of good chokes out there to choose from......pissing contests like this on a public forum really don't enhance a company image or the other parties. I would suggest that the main parties take a step back and deal with this via PM's.
I don't know the back story and generally the truth is somewhere in the middle, the choke pics speak for them self, not pretty. I would personally work on QC and finish work. Image and customer service are key.
Quote from: clg9mm on April 24, 2011, 09:49:01 PM
Pa Turkey,
IC does the same thing. I had a .665 that was only getting in the 230-232 range my JH was getting 302. Stuart said to send it back because it should be over 300 no problem. He is sending out a couple others for me to try so yes there is another company that has excellent service.
Lots of good chokes out there to choose from......pissing contests like this on a public forum really don't enhance a company image or the other parties. I would suggest that the main parties take a step back and deal with this via PM's.
I don't know the back story and generally the truth is somewhere in the middle, the choke pics speak for them self, not pretty. I would personally work on QC and finish work. Image and customer service are key.
x2 pure gold also works well with their customers
Quote from: clg9mm on April 24, 2011, 09:49:01 PM
Pa Turkey,
IC does the same thing. I had a .665 that was only getting in the 230-232 range my JH was getting 302. Stuart said to send it back because it should be over 300 no problem. He is sending out a couple others for me to try so yes there is another company that has excellent service.
Lots of good chokes out there to choose from......pissing contests like this on a public forum really don't enhance a company image or the other parties. I would suggest that the main parties take a step back and deal with this via PM's.
I don't know the back story and generally the truth is somewhere in the middle, the choke pics speak for them self, not pretty. I would personally work on QC and finish work. Image and customer service are key.
Thank you. And that is what I was trying to do until this got posted here.
I just spoke with the guy that bought that choke, and he isn't happy. I don't blame him. That choke is going back as it should.
Now let's wrap this thread up.
iking yes the analogy does fit it can look good and not shoot worth a crap i think every ones point has been made and some people just want to have the last word some say black some say white but gray works for everyone shoot what works for you.
GET CHOKED
GET U ONE OR TWO
Quote from: spursandbeards on April 24, 2011, 10:21:28 PM
iking yes the analogy does fit it can look good and not shoot worth a crap i think every ones point has been made and some people just want to have the last word some say black some say white but gray works for everyone shoot what works for you.
GET CHOKED
GET U ONE OR TWO
You may say it does but here is a better one.
Up for sale are two brand new Diesel Trucks. Same horsepower same overall performance.
One has been through a hail storm, scratched by a tiger, sat on by an elephant, and parked under a tree where 100 birds live.
The other looks great brand new no elephant dents, tiger scratches or 40 pounds or bird crap.
Both cost the same.
Which would you choose?
Sure some will say give me the bird crap one it adds character but most will take the one that looks the best.
Gobble I have not idea what is going on with you. I really don't care. I have said I will refund the money for a choke. Now I can make it look how you want it to look. I know it will not make a few happy.
:emoticon-animal-005:
The guys/gals that had them in the past want them with the silver finish folks on this site want them dark.
Now with a truck, car, gun, choke or a person we will have to deal with a piece of alot of times.
I have said what I will say and that is all.
Quote from: SumToy on April 25, 2011, 08:06:14 AM
Gobble I have not idea what is going on with you. I really don't care. I have said I will refund the money for a choke. Now I can make it look how you want it to look. I know it will not make a few happy.
:emoticon-animal-005:
The guys/gals that had them in the past want them with the silver finish folks on this site want them dark.
Now with a truck, car, gun, choke or a person we will have to deal with a piece of alot of times.
I have said what I will say and that is all.
I have wished you luck since the beginning and I still hope you do well. You seem to be great with your customers and I hope that continues. All I am saying is that looks over priced for $65.
Let me start off by saying I am not the turkey choke police , and either are any of the members here too- hint to those who have nothing better to do that insert themselves intentionally in a avoidable issue that is of no concern of theirs -
a few things that are of greatest concern to any sensible turkey hunter
1) safety
2) performance
3) price if that is of concern
You shoot what you want
be nice - Shannon
ILIKEHEVI-13,
The choke in the picture isn't pretty. You're right about that. How did it shoot?
SumToy,
Good Luck with your chokes. Since you know how to make a choke shoot, you've already conquered the biggest challenge. Now you need to work on the appearance and packaging. I worked in outside sales as a Regional Sales Manager for 7 years. Appearance and Price are important, because if a person doesn't buy the product to start with, they'll never know how great it performs.
Go easy guys.
The guy that bought that choke here didn't want to shoot it. Like I said he is sending it back as would 90% of the folks here. I'll leave it at that for I've already expressed my thoughts.
I have talk to the guy. He called me before I could call him. I will not get into what was said. I will say that he is going to shoot the choke. He has a new one that is one inch OD ready to mail. Now the out side of that choke is not like the other chokes we make. I will post new pic like I was told. The line in it that is being miss represented is strait rifling that has been in the target world for years along with the wad stops. Now the hand engraved numbers will show you that it was in someones hand at some point.
Now some of the stuff in the PM's that have been sent is slander so beware.
QuoteThe line in it that is being miss represented is strait rifling that has been in the target world for years along with the wad stops.
I recognized that. Those are good design choices.
I believe that this thread has outlived it usefulness and the matter has been handled with the original purchaser and any other comments added from this point on are nothing but everyone wanting to get the last word in.
Time for us all to move on to bigger and better things.
bird