You need to take this survey and pay close attention to the last few questions.
https://www.research.net/r/KYSpringTurkey
I don't live in KY but hunt there occasionally every few years. I filled it out I don't support reducing the spring limit but highly support extending the legal hours later than 1pm and reducing the fall harvest from 4
Quote from: bghunter777 on May 09, 2018, 03:34:55 PM
I don't live in KY but hunt there occasionally every few years. I filled it out I don't support reducing the spring limit but highly support extending the legal hours later than 1pm and reducing the fall harvest from 4
Legal hrs haven't ended at 1pm in several yrs. not sure what you meant.
I wouldn't expect anyone who doesn't live here to support any proposed changes.
Us local guys have realized there is serious problem.
Completed my survey already.
I would hope that a residents opinion would matter much more than a nonresidents.
Done
Done
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If they offer the survey to Nonres hunters then they want the feedback. I agree that they should listen to the local hunters, but all info no matter where it is from helps with the process. Just my :z-twocents: Al Baker
I think most study's will support spring seasons impact the population minimally with the harvest of only male birds the fall seasons however can have an impact when hunting pressure reaches a heightened level
Spring seasons impact the population negatively when they are held too early IMO. I've listened to OH hunters whine for years that they wanted an earlier season but so far ODNR has held firm on a later April opener. Good for them. Later seasons allow the available hens to be breed before the gun play begins. Anyone else notice how so much late season success occurs throughout the country? KY could start with a 7 to 10 day season adjustment (later) plus pray for a few good hatches. Fall either sex hunting in a crashing population is indefensible. Again IMO.
filled mine out
::) filled mine out done deal
Done
I live in Ohio, but I have hunted Ky both spring and fall every year. I have done this for 35+ years and average probably 14-18 days a year turkey hunting there. I do care and appreciate having a voice as a non resident. Also, I pay a heck of a lot more to hunt those birds, my license for spring and fall cost me $290.00 and I have no problem spending it. So I am glad they allow non residents to comment.
Research has shown that gobbler populations are severely impacted by spring hunting, bu the over all population will remain stable. A hen only needs to be breed once to lay a full clutch of fertile eggs. This happens very early in the breeding cycle for most. If they lose a nest they will breed again to lay another clutch. That hen will find a gobbler even if there is only one left, they'll most likely find each other. There are more gobblers out there then we ever realize. Poult survival is the biggest issue, in my opinion. It is very hard to effect that. I have seen a decline in Ky. birds in the last 5-6 years, but it is more due to a leveling off of the population to carrying capacity. This stabilization happens everywhere after reintroduction. When new birds are released in void areas the population explodes to the point of saturation then declines to a stable carrying capacity that holds. This is what is happening for the most part. I've watched it happen here in Ohio. After that you have fluctuations due to poor or good poult years. Much of Ky has had a series of bad poult years, but I think last year was better and I have seen a bit of recovery the last two years. I say don't panic Ky.
As for fall hunting, I have fall hunted Va, West Va, Ohio and Ky. I have yet to see fall hunting kill off a population. In Ky. and Ohio I see very light fall hunting pressure. Look at the kill records, they are a extremely small part of the harvest and most likely inconsequential to the over all population.
State agencies have a tendency to react to sportsman's pressures even in spite of sound science. I know I spent 31 years in the Division of Wildlife, politics sometimes influence this as well. I do not see a crisis in Ky. and after taking the survey all I see is an agency that is reaching out to it's clients to see what hunter's preferences are. I do not see them thinking there is a crisis. They simply realize the biology of a stabilizing population and want to know how hunters want it managed. Actually I think that is a responsible agency doing it's job.
With your background I'm surprised at a few of the statements you made. It's absolutely not true that a hen only needs to be bred once to lay a full clutch of "fertile eggs". This is a myth. Hens store seman but it only remains fertille 7-8 days. I can assure you in western KY our populations are declining and to say that 4000-6000 hens killed every fall makes no difference doesn't make any sense. Used to be the brood surveys were made public but if they are still being done I haven't seen one in years. The brood surveys should determine the hunting regs and harvest limits. KY has managed turkeys the same way for last 15-20 yrs even tho the number of turkey hunters has increased significantly and hunter effectiveness due to blinds, decoys, HTL shells, etc has increased tremendously. All this means that less gobblers are carried over from year to year. Thro in 2-3 bad hatches in a row and it's doesnt take long for populations to decline.
Quote from: Roost 1 on May 17, 2018, 08:40:32 AM
With your background I'm surprised at a few of the statements you made. It's absolutely not true that a hen only needs to be bred once to lay a full clutch of "fertile eggs". This is a myth. Hens store seman but it only remains fertille 7-8 days.
Myth... I guess Lovett Williams and every other Turkey biologist has it wrong.
I do agree killing even one hen per year is counter productive.
I stand on the hens only need bred once point....
From Pa Game commission site: When do turkeys in PA breed, nest and hatch? Breeding can begin as early as the end of March, when winter flocks disperse. This is the time when hens seek a nesting area and gobblers begin gobbling in earnest. A hen can be bred by the gobbler daily, but the sperm is held in the hen's oviduct for up to four weeks. One successful breeding is sufficient to fertilize the eggs for an entire clutch (sometimes two clutches, if the hen loses her first nest and successively re-nests).
There are other references, but this one was easy to find.
Where did you get 4,000 -6,000 hens killed? here is a link to Ky harvest for fall 2017
http://app.fw.ky.gov/harvest/turkeyharvest.asp
Male Female Total % Male % Female Adult Sub-Adult Archery Firearm Muzzleloader Crossbow
Total 705 1193 1898 37.1% 62.9% 545 160 645 1007 2 244
Here also is a link to the study that explains the reason for the survey and population trends
https://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Documents/2018_KY_Turkey_Report_Pre-Season.pdf
So a total of 1898 turkeys were killed during fall of 2017 of which 1193 were hens. with a population of approx 350,000 turkeys .54 % or 1/2 of 1 percent of the population was harvested....that in my book is statically inconsequential
I understand the leveling off argument and have heard it from several people, but if that's the case then why are populations declining in areas that have had good turkey populations since the 90's? I would have thought they would have leveled off a long time ago...
The leveling off can take place over - 20-30 years. The population builds for many of those then gradually declines to a carrying capacity. Also carrying capacity changes as habitat changes