This is kind of related to a thread I did a couple days back about declining turkey population in my area.
If you for roughly 5 straight years saw no more than 2 toms in the flock, and some times only ONE, would you ever consider skipping a season? This is assuming this property is the only one you hunt?
I wrote my situation in that thread so I won't ramble on about it again, but this has crossed my mind as I have not seen more than 2 toms since last spring, and now I'm only seeing one, and significantly less hens.
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Nope, I'd hunt him them look for green pastures.
Quote from: kdsberman on April 02, 2018, 08:52:50 PM
This is kind of related to a thread I did a couple days back about declining turkey population in my area.
If you for roughly 5 straight years saw no more than 2 toms in the flock, and some times only ONE, would you ever consider skipping a season? This is assuming this property is the only one you hunt?
I wrote my situation in that thread so I won't ramble on about it again, but this has crossed my mind as I have not seen more than 2 toms since last spring, and now I'm only seeing one, and significantly less hens.
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That would be a tough decision. You could always hunt them with a video camera and if you got him with in 40 yds you pretty much know you could have killed him. Maybe you would wise them up and and they would be harder for someone else to kill.
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Missing a season NO, but I would do everything I could to find a better place to hunt, in state or out!
Missing a season NO, but I would do everything I could to find a better place to hunt, in state or out!
X2
IF I could hunt another piece of property I'd consider it, but as of now this is all I have.
Trust me, I don't WANT to skip a season as turkey hunting is my favorite thing in the world, I just thought maybe it would be smart in the long run?
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I would leave those birds alone and find elswheres to hunt personally
Go somewhere else. Public if necessary.
There are usually more birds around than what you actually see. And 1 Tom can breed quite a few hens. One thing you could do this fall to help is set some traps for predators. Opossum and Raccoons are hard on nests and coyotes and bobcats are superb turkey killers.
I wouldn't give up the hunt, but would definitely be on some other ground, private or public whatever it need be.
MK M GOBL
Quote from: Chris O on April 02, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
There are usually more birds around than what you actually see. And 1 Tom can breed quite a few hens. One thing you could do this fall to help is set some traps for predators. Opossum and Raccoons are hard on nests and coyotes and bobcats are superb turkey killers.
I started doing this last year, and got roughly 20 raccoons. Hoping this is a good start.
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Nope. It's also strange that when you kill a gobbler , another takes his place. As long as you have hens , there will be a gobbler close by.
Never. I only have one piece of family owned private land in the state I live in, at sometimes there's no birds around it. I hunt public land lots and lots of scouting goes into this I also hunt out of state every year both private and public.
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Quote from: kdsberman on April 02, 2018, 09:25:49 PM
Quote from: Chris O on April 02, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
There are usually more birds around than what you actually see. And 1 Tom can breed quite a few hens. One thing you could do this fall to help is set some traps for predators. Opossum and Raccoons are hard on nests and coyotes and bobcats are superb turkey killers.
I started doing this last year, and got roughly 20 raccoons. Hoping this is a good start.
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I am sure you saved a few eggs. If you want to learn more about trapping check out Iowa trappers talk.com and look through some of the archives. There are some really good trappers on there that catch incredible amounts of predators. I know quite a few of them. You will probably have to register and join but it's no big deal.
I think it depends on the land. If there had been 5-6 regularly hanging out in past seasons and now 1, i would not hunt him, unless i was seeing some jakes. But there probably are more than you actually see unless its a pretty small farm. On my farm i usually see 2-3 every year. I take 1 occasionally 2, the next year there are 2-3 again. Like others said, i would hunt public and take some time to go to another state if i was worried.
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I missed 17 seasons due to a car accident and last year due to a shoulder surgery, there is no way I am willing to miss any more. That said I would try some other spots for a season though.
Hunt somewhere else or leave the gun at home
I left local birds alone back home when they were just getting established but it was legal to hunt them. However, I never missed a season. Ive never put all my eggs in one basket and relied on one small piece of property for something I enjoy so much.
With that said, turkeys aren't isolated to one property. How are the regional numbers? If there are birds in the region, another tom will gladly take the place of the one you kill. Also, as long as those hens are bred, that tom alone has little to do with turkey numbers.
I might not hunt that bird but I'd find one to hunt somewhere else. To big of a word to limit myself to a single location.
I've backed way off hunting one small farm for a couple of years and let the jakes pass (Jakes always get a free pass) to help the population recover. It definitely helped, as I killed a nice 3 year old and saw some jakes out there last year. Scouting there this year showed some great sign.
Jim
Thanks for the help guys. This is the only farm I have access to hunt around here. I probably should have re-worded the question instead of skipping hunting altogether would you take a year off THIS property?
As far as if there's hens they'll be toms, I usually would agree with this. But I remember a couple years ago there was ONE tom in this flock, and no matter how much I watched I never saw another tom around. Well, I shot him. (At the time never thought if I did more harm than good). My dad continued to hunt the same property and always saw hens but never a single tom nor jake.
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Quote from: kdsberman on April 03, 2018, 07:35:35 AM
Thanks for the help guys. This is the only farm I have access to hunt around here. I probably should have re-worded the question instead of skipping hunting altogether would you take a year off THIS property?
As far as if there's hens they'll be toms, I usually would agree with this. But I remember a couple years ago there was ONE tom in this flock, and no matter how much I watched I never saw another tom around. Well, I shot him. (At the time never thought if I did more harm than good). My dad continued to hunt the same property and always saw hens but never a single tom nor jake.
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Yes I'd skip that property and hunt else where with more birds and work to improve the property for turkeys.. maybe chufa food plots would draw birds to your area and hold them
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As stated previously: "what are the regional numbers?" I find that in the early season flocks are still together to some extent and concentrated. Where they concentrate is the question. Is your neighbor feeding them.
Turkey hunting has changed and you need to adjust. As you have one band of turkeys and see one to two gobblers I would be sure there are some sub dominate birds around as well as a few groups of jakes. I run cameras all year around and hunt coyotes and any turkey egg eating critter that comes my way. You need to spend time observing to get a really good feel for whats going on.
Turkeys travel and I pull many birds off neighboring land by calling. While I have not noticed any decline in turkey numbers some parts of the country are said to be in decline. This makes it even more important to observe and manage your property. Just my 2 cents.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on April 03, 2018, 09:10:00 AM
As stated previously: "what are the regional numbers?" I find that in the early season flocks are still together to some extent and concentrated. Where they concentrate is the question. Is your neighbor feeding them.
Turkey hunting has changed and you need to adjust. As you have one band of turkeys and see one to two gobblers I would be sure there are some sub dominate birds around as well as a few groups of jakes. I run cameras all year around and hunt coyotes and any turkey egg eating critter that comes my way. You need to spend time observing to get a really good feel for whats going on.
Turkeys travel and I pull many birds off neighboring land by calling. While I have not noticed any decline in turkey numbers some parts of the country are said to be in decline. This makes it even more important to observe and manage your property. Just my 2 cents.
Regional numbers? DOWN
I've always pulled birds off the neighboring properties as they don't roost on the 40 I hunt.
No, neighbors don't feed them. And as far as I know, I'm the only one that turkey hunts within the 3/4 - 1 mile radius.
There isn't much "adjusting" I can do. I have this 40 acre farm to hunt and that's it. There's no moving around. It's either this property's birds or nothing.
Sounds like all your eggs are in one tiny basket. I believe in conservation so if you feel the need to lay off do so but why on earth not hunt elsewhere??
No excuse would get me to stop.
One year I tore my shoulder. It was hanging yet I still duck hunted one armed while I was off work healing. Years ago some medicine burned the skin clean off my crotch. Had to hunt wearing overalls and no underwear but I went. This year I had brain surgery. Had to learn everything over. Balance was off and my dominant eye was sewed shut. Still killed 4 deer, 2 decent bucks.
Do what you have to do if it's a lifestyle for ya. You'd kind of have no choice. If it's a passing hobby and you're ok w missing a season you could do that too
Quote from: Bowguy on April 03, 2018, 09:30:58 AM
Sounds like all your eggs are in one tiny basket. I believe in conservation so if you feel the need to lay off do so but why on earth not hunt elsewhere??
No excuse would get me to stop.
One year I tore my shoulder. It was hanging yet I still duck hunted one armed while I was off work healing. Years ago some medicine burned the skin clean off my crotch. Had to hunt wearing overalls and no underwear but I went. This year I had brain surgery. Had to learn everything over. Balance was off and my dominant eye was sewed shut. Still killed 4 deer, 2 decent bucks.
Do what you have to do if it's a lifestyle for ya. You'd kind of have no choice. If it's a passing hobby and you're ok w missing a season you could do that too
Trust me - I don't want to SKIP a season. To be honest, I was gonna be limited this year anyway due to work/newborn and the reason I'll be able to go is because of the short, convenient drive to the property. Having to go find state land is not going to be practical "right now" due to my at home situation. That's why I'm just concerned about this particular area.
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Quote from: Bowguy on April 03, 2018, 09:30:58 AM
Sounds like all your eggs are in one tiny basket. I believe in conservation so if you feel the need to lay off do so but why on earth not hunt elsewhere??
No excuse would get me to stop.
One year I tore my shoulder. It was hanging yet I still duck hunted one armed while I was off work healing. Years ago some medicine burned the skin clean off my crotch. Had to hunt wearing overalls and no underwear but I went. This year I had brain surgery. Had to learn everything over. Balance was off and my dominant eye was sewed shut. Still killed 4 deer, 2 decent bucks.
Do what you have to do if it's a lifestyle for ya. You'd kind of have no choice. If it's a passing hobby and you're ok w missing a season you could do that too
I think kdsberman says it better then me. No matter where you live there are tons of opportunities. I would motivate myself. Focus on what you have and develop plan B it that does not work out. One thing turkey hunting has taught me is to be innovative and to never give up. That's a common trait among most turkey hunters. Good luck!
Quote from: 3bailey3 on April 02, 2018, 08:58:33 PM
Missing a season NO, but I would do everything I could to find a better place to hunt, in state or out!
+1
Quote from: Chris O on April 02, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
There are usually more birds around than what you actually see. And 1 Tom can breed quite a few hens. One thing you could do this fall to help is set some traps for predators. Opossum and Raccoons are hard on nests and coyotes and bobcats are superb turkey killers.
My thoughts exactly! Even a jake will get the hens bred. Passing on gobblers where I hunt is an open invitation for a trespasser to come on in and kill him/them. If you've got hens then you'll have gobblers at some point in the season.
Trap those predators if you want to save the turkeys. They do more hen, nest, and poult damage than most other problems combined.
Quote from: dublelung on April 03, 2018, 05:55:23 PM
Quote from: Chris O on April 02, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
There are usually more birds around than what you actually see. And 1 Tom can breed quite a few hens. One thing you could do this fall to help is set some traps for predators. Opossum and Raccoons are hard on nests and coyotes and bobcats are superb turkey killers.
My thoughts exactly! Even a jake will get the hens bred. Passing on gobblers where I hunt is an open invitation for a trespasser to come on in and kill him/them. If you've got hens then you'll have gobblers at some point in the season.
Trap those predators if you want to save the turkeys. They do more hen, nest, and poult damage than most other problems combined.
Not all Jakes have viable sperm to breed
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Quote from: davisd9 on April 03, 2018, 06:04:11 PM
Quote from: dublelung on April 03, 2018, 05:55:23 PM
Quote from: Chris O on April 02, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
There are usually more birds around than what you actually see. And 1 Tom can breed quite a few hens. One thing you could do this fall to help is set some traps for predators. Opossum and Raccoons are hard on nests and coyotes and bobcats are superb turkey killers.
My thoughts exactly! Even a jake will get the hens bred. Passing on gobblers where I hunt is an open invitation for a trespasser to come on in and kill him/them. If you've got hens then you'll have gobblers at some point in the season.
Trap those predators if you want to save the turkeys. They do more hen, nest, and poult damage than most other problems combined.
Not all Jakes have viable sperm to breed
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I bet there is at least a 2year old hanging close by on the outskirts at least
If I was worried about the population then no I would not hunt it. I am fortunate to have a few spots, but there is plenty of public land as well. I would prefer to give the birds a chance to do their thing and one good recruiting cycle can do wonders. Just my opinion.
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Quote from: davisd9 on April 03, 2018, 06:04:11 PM
Quote from: dublelung on April 03, 2018, 05:55:23 PM
Quote from: Chris O on April 02, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
There are usually more birds around than what you actually see. And 1 Tom can breed quite a few hens. One thing you could do this fall to help is set some traps for predators. Opossum and Raccoons are hard on nests and coyotes and bobcats are superb turkey killers.
My thoughts exactly! Even a jake will get the hens bred. Passing on gobblers where I hunt is an open invitation for a trespasser to come on in and kill him/them. If you've got hens then you'll have gobblers at some point in the season.
Trap those predators if you want to save the turkeys. They do more hen, nest, and poult damage than most other problems combined.
Not all Jakes have viable sperm to breed
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The hens are going to get bred regardless. Matter of fact they've probably already been bred by the time the only known longbeard is killed. Most jakes will be mature enough to breed and have viable sperm count before the hens become less receptive.
Thanks for all the help guys. Like I said, I should have worded my original post differently. I don't want to skip turkey season. That's for sure. And I understand there could be toms around that I'm not seeing. It just looks really bad that for the past 5 years I've seen the total number of turkeys decline, and consistently seen no more than 2 toms and very few jakes each year - within the mile. And during deer season seeing one tom by himself or 2 max, where you'd normally see several. It just doesn't look good. And it used to be the complete opposite. So much where I was upset that Michigan only has a 1-bird limit. Right now, I'd NEVER want the limit to be raised, or at least would never consider taking more than 1.
So again, not necessarily worried about skipping hunting altogether, just more of should I not take a tom on this particular property.
I'll continue doing predator control, especially the raccoons and opossums.
On a side note, maybe it's a good year to be limited on hunting time?
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I will add this though - every year my father in law gets 5-6 toms on his trail cam during deer season, and he only hunts about a half mile away. When spring comes those birds are no where to be found.
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Quote from: bobk on April 02, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
Missing a season NO, but I would do everything I could to find a better place to hunt, in state or out!
X2
X10...I can't imagine not turkey hunting... I would travel
Once i took to the ground that i Turkey hunt with my hounds, i have seen a huge increase in Turkey population. On my farm, i took 46 coon with my hounds from September-January. And shot every possum i seen in the process because my dogs never tree possums :TooFunny:
Dublelung said it perfectly. I do agree with predator control. Turkey populations have dropped where I hunt in WV and VA because no-one coon hunts or fox hunts any longer. In the 70's during the high prices for fur even lazy guys hunted and killed coons and good dogs were sold at premium prices. During that period turkey populations exploded.
Quote from: ThunderChickenGetter on April 03, 2018, 08:09:20 PM
Once i took to the ground that i Turkey hunt with my hounds, i have seen a huge increase in Turkey population. On my farm, i took 46 coon with my hounds from September-January. And shot every possum i seen in the process because my dogs never tree possums :TooFunny:
I've been doing as much trapping as I can for coons, but this most (and others as well) is really motivating me to kick it up a notch with these raccoons.
Wonder though, if I can only hunt/trap them on my 40, how much of a difference can it make overall? This is assuming the neighboring properties are loaded with them too. Do raccoons travel a lot?
Thanks
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Does your state have laws limiting you to only trap your ground? Many people grant permission for raccoon trapping because they can be destructive to property. Just learn your states trapping laws and abide by the law. It only takes a mistake and catch a non target species and it can put a hurt on trapping in your state so just use caution on where you set traps.
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Most seasons are set to allow the receptive hens to be bred before hunting starts, so I doubt harvesting toms this year will affect the future population dramatically, just the present.
Another tom may move in this season, if not, then next year. Toms will travel quite a distance to get with hens for breeding purposes.
Find someone in your area that you can trust that has decent, non trashy coon hounds and grant them permission to hunt your place. Speaking from experience, any coon hunter would be more than willing to come and hunt for no charge because most of us want more ground to run our hounds on. Trapping works well, i also trap but i have much better luck with my hounds than i do trapping. Last year in total, i trapped close to 70 coon but i treed close to 200 between my hounds and my buddies. Of course we didn't kill them all because we like to leave some to run the next night but by thinning the coon, possum, and skunk population i have seen a definite increase in Turkey population. Also i don't what kind of ground you have but my farm used to be all big hardwoods and hay fields and there weren't a ton of birds in the spring. We did some select cutting and allowed some undergrowth to form and create some thicker, more ideal nesting habitat and the number of turkeys increased also. Hens need somewhere to nest and will go to where they can, the longbeards will follow.
Quote from: ThunderChickenGetter on April 03, 2018, 11:41:04 PM
Find someone in your area that you can trust that has decent, non trashy coon hounds and grant them permission to hunt your place. Speaking from experience, any coon hunter would be more than willing to come and hunt for no charge because most of us want more ground to run our hounds on.
That wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe I'll get into raccoon hunting - never done it, don't know anyone that does. Sounds fun though.
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I was not really gonna add anything, but a smallish farm I hunt (300 acres with a creek running through it) does not always hold birds all season. But on years when the numbers are down, I lay off it and hunt elsewhere until the last week of the season. I figure that gives Tom as much times as he needs to breed every hen he can get to. I kind of hold that place in reserve and take one at the end. A few years I did not kill one and was left with an empty tag, but plenty of years I have killed one in the last week. And then there were birds again next year.
It's getting bad enough in my area of TN to consider skipping and going elsewhere. We just don't have very many turkeys left, used to be great years ago.
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I appreciate all the help guys. Learned a lot from this thread and gives me a better idea what to do going forward. Maybe instead of doing the early season every year and harvesting one I should do the later season, giving the toms more breeding time.
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