I'm wondering if it's possible for a muzzleloader to fire while loading without a firing cap when using the original rod that came with the gun? Im curious because I occasionally use a muzzleloader and have never had a problem,but I know someone that says theirs did and has the hand to prove it. The person said absolutely they didn't load with the firing cap on the gun first. B.s. or not???
VERY POSSIBLE The issue often comes about by hot powder residue/embers in the bottom of the barrel or maybe part of a patch that did not leave the barrel all the way and is still hot. This is why you never point one in the direction of your body or face when reloading. This can happen with all forms of muzzle loaders including inline.
I'll have to ask him ,but I think it was just loading it up right before hunting. Hadn't shot it recently before that or since after the incident...
Quote from: Sir-diealot on March 31, 2018, 02:40:06 PM
VERY POSSIBLE The issue often comes about by hot powder residue/embers in the bottom of the barrel or maybe part of a patch that did not leave the barrel all the way and is still hot. This is why you never point one in the direction of your body or face when reloading. This can happen with all forms of muzzle loaders including inline.
I agree! Gotta have your wits about you when shooting a muzzle loading gun. Ever see someone leave the ramrod in the barrel, then fire a shot? It's was funny, only because no one was hurt and a lesson was learned. (No, not me.)
Quote from: 2eagles on March 31, 2018, 02:51:59 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on March 31, 2018, 02:40:06 PM
VERY POSSIBLE The issue often comes about by hot powder residue/embers in the bottom of the barrel or maybe part of a patch that did not leave the barrel all the way and is still hot. This is why you never point one in the direction of your body or face when reloading. This can happen with all forms of muzzle loaders including inline.
I agree! Gotta have your wits about you when shooting a muzzle loading gun. Ever see someone leave the ramrod in the barrel, then fire a shot? It's was funny, only because no one was hurt and a lesson was learned. (No, not me.)
I hate to admit this but yes and it was me. I thought the shot sounded strange because there was a whistling sound and found it even more strange that there were 3 holes in the bullseye and it was my first shot on a new target. Then I went to reload for a second shot and figured it all out!
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on March 31, 2018, 02:44:10 PM
I'll have to ask him ,but I think it was just loading it up right before hunting. Hadn't shot it recently before that or since after the incident...
Okay there are 3 possibilities and the third is an incredible long shot. First would be he forgot to remove the primer from it after he used it last if if it was a standard percussion or an inline, the second is that it was a flintlock and it was cocked and he did not realize it and the third which I find very hard to believe and am not even sure if it is possible is if it have been left in an extremely hot vehicle (And I am talking down South hot vehicle) that maybe it ignited it but again I do not see this likely. Actually a fourth just came to mind, if it was what he was loading powder from. Most people use brass powder "horns" or a special kind of plastic one as other materials can cause black powder to spark and I see this as much more likely than the third.
Seems unlikely that loading a muzzleloader for the first time which would not have any hot embers should ignite. Using mostly nonferrous metals there should not be any kind of catalyst to cause combustion. If the powder was contaminated it may be possible to create some kind of reaction. My TC Prohunter has a steel ram rod and I have always wondered if it could ignite the powder however it seats on the bullet. I have shot muzzleloaders thousands of times with no issues.
If there was a cap already in place I have little doubt that pressure could set it off under the right circumstances. Putting a cap on first falls in line with shooting your ramrod or loading a bullet in backwards. When using a muzzle loader or really any equipment one should be alert and knowledgeable in the procedures required. Just my musings.
Quote from: Sir-diealot on March 31, 2018, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on March 31, 2018, 02:44:10 PM
I'll have to ask him ,but I think it was just loading it up right before hunting. Hadn't shot it recently before that or since after the incident...
Okay there are 3 possibilities and the third is an incredible long shot. First would be he forgot to remove the primer from it after he used it last if if it was a standard percussion or an inline, the second is that it was a flintlock and it was cocked and he did not realize it and the third which I find very hard to believe and am not even sure if it is possible is if it have been left in an extremely hot vehicle (And I am talking down South hot vehicle) that maybe it ignited it but again I do not see this likely. Actually a fourth just came to mind, if it was what he was loading powder from. Most people use brass powder "horns" or a special kind of plastic one as other materials can cause black powder to spark and I see this as much more likely than the third.
I too think there was probably a cap in place.
I believe it was a T/C . It was in the Spring loading right before heading to the woods. He's a competent honest guy. I even asked the question twice are you positive you didn't have a cap on it and his answer was absolutely not. I do know he doesn't muzzleload anymore after several months of physical therapy and lost wages.
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on March 31, 2018, 04:30:12 PM
I believe it was a T/C . It was in the Spring loading right before heading to the woods. He's a competent honest guy. I even asked the question twice are you positive you didn't have a cap on it and his answer was absolutely not. I do know he doesn't muzzleload anymore after several months of physical therapy and lost wages.
He may still have left one on even if he did not put one on that day. It does happen. I am not calling the man a liar but everybody makes mistakes, my parents had me! :P
I was just curious because he said someone even checked after the fact and it didn't have one. He's the type of guy he would call himself a dumba__ and I believe would tell the whole story,but I wasn't there and use a muzzleloader once in awhile so was wondering.
I hunt flintlock and other that having a cap on or hot embers right after a first shot I don't see how it's possable.
I was wondering also like mtns2hunt if with the ram rod being made of metal if a possible spark could happen?
I was taking a family members child to hunters safety and the instructor mentioned this happening. I want to say his explanation was the person loading shoved the ramrod down too fast and pressure set the powder charge off. I thought seemed far fetched but he swore they could replicate it.... sometimes. My theory was the new steel ramrod can cause sparks but I honestly don't know.
If anything at least anyone reading this should be aware and always load with CAUTION....if he would have accidently had his face or chin over the barrel it would have definitely been a lot worse...
Quote from: Happy on March 31, 2018, 06:44:43 PM
I was taking a family members child to hunters safety and the instructor mentioned this happening. I want to say his explanation was the person loading shoved the ramrod down too fast and pressure set the powder charge off. I thought seemed far fetched but he swore they could replicate it.... sometimes. My theory was the new steel ramrod can cause sparks but I honestly don't know.
Maybe the steel causing a spark but no way the pressure would do that, some loads are to go in pretty tight.
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on March 31, 2018, 07:16:44 PM
If anything at least anyone reading this should be aware and always load with CAUTION....if he would have accidently had his face or chin over the barrel it would have definitely been a lot worse...
Agreed, I was taught, mostly from reading but also in two hunter safety classes to always have the barrel pointed away from my face and body.
Now if there was no cap I would consider contaminated powder. What if there was metal left in the barrel from cleaning especially if he was using a steel brush. What if he had poured smokeless powder in the gun as well. There could be several variables at play here including pressure and old or deteriorated powder. I never throw away my muzzle loading powder because it never gets a chance to deteriorate. I shoot all year around and always start out with a fresh bottle at the start of the hunting season. However, in my opinion, the most important variable is the person loading the gun. Something was done incorrectly, certainly not on purpose, that resulted in such a catastrophic accident. I wonder what the police report said. I know that all such accidents are investigated buy conservation officers or local police.
Finally, I like this post because it raises awareness of possible risks and should be enough to insure everyone reviews their procedures: especially if they only shoot their muzzle loaders just before and during hunting season. Be safe!