This is my initial post on OG after a lot of reading. I have killed a lot of turkeys with an 870 SM topped w/Kick's GT 0.655" choke shooting Winchester 3.5" XR #6's sighted with a red dot scope. I never shot it past 30 yards for pattern analysis and only did 30 yards to zero the red dot POI. In the last five years I have killed many more turkeys with a Mathews. After some reading on this forum I patterned the 870 at 40 yards and was not impressed. I had been itching to try a turkey choke in my new Benelli; so after some research I ordered the Rhino 0.660" and two different varieties of #4x5x7 HS blend 3.5" loads from Nitro. The better of the two placed 203 in a 10" and another 204 in the 20" circle at a lasered 40 yards. This circle was centered on POA rather than center of pattern, but POI appeared to only be a couple inches high.
I was hoping for better, but looks deadly enough. BTW, barrel was squeaky clean. Does anyone have pointers or tips. I am going to KS and NE in late May and would like to have 60+ yd capability.
I will handload TSS after reading here, but not sure I can pull it off by next month.
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It might help us to know which 4x5x7 shell, as the oz loads are different.
You might as well try the Hevi 13 #7 3.5" shells as well.
I can't chime on on the SBE, as mine is a I, instead of the II.
God Bless,
David B.
That is a great 40 yd. pattern. I would be very happy with that. At 60+ yards you will have way to many variables to count on any shot. I know others will disagree but this is my opinion. You could kill a bird, I personally would not take the chance of wounding one. Good luck on both hunts. Hope you tag out!
(Just realized this was 30 yards. Still pretty nice/even. Should be nice at 40 also.)
With factory ammo or Nitro, you will have to go with straight 7s to get to longer ranges. Don't let the triplex fool ya, the smaller shot do the work and the larger pellets are just a marketing scheme. There's not enough of the larger pellets to even come close to a reasonable chance of actually connecting with them. The larger pellets will merely hurt your numbers, hence shortening your effective range.
Shot some H-13 3.5" 2 1/4 #7's last weekend out of my SBEII with a Rhino .660. 267 pellets in the 10" circle lasered at 40 yards. Shot some 3.5" magnum blends as well and was pleased with the pattern. Had hoped that I could use them interchangeably, but their POI was about 6 inches higher than the #7's. I may adjust my scope for the magnum blends before the WV season starts next week because they really seem to reach out there before dropping off.
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Quote from: Reloader on April 19, 2011, 09:57:51 PM
With factory ammo or Nitro, you will have to go with straight 7s to get to longer ranges. Don't let the triplex fool ya, the smaller shot do the work and the larger pellets are just a marketing scheme. There's not enough of the larger pellets to even come close to a reasonable chance of actually connecting with them. The larger pellets will merely hurt your numbers, hence shortening your effective range.
That was well said, Reloader.. :z-winnersmiley:
jfair - it was at 40 yards, the 30 yard reference was to previous 870 testing - sorry to be confusing.
reloader - I can't tell much difference in the #7's and the tri-plex loads when cut open. Big variance in shot size in both. What is your experience?
ntlchamp - great pattern! I will try the H-13 #7's. Good luck in WV!
boff - It was H-517, 2-7/16 oz. I also shot the H51013, 2-1/2 oz with a good even pattern, but 15 - 20 less pellets in the 10" and 20" rings.
Thanks for all the input! I took my first bird of the Spring here in Arkansas this morning at a whopping 23 yards. He gobbled at first light in a 25 mph wind. I would not have heard him except he was only about 75 yards from the truck! It was the off the limb hunt we all deserve from time to time. Killed him at 0630 hrs. With the overcast skies, it took me a little bit to verify it was a longbeard and not a jake. It is fun to have a turkey in the truck before sun-up once in a great while!
23 lbs, 9.5" beard, 3/4" spurs.
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jfair - I have never taken a shot over 40 yards - I agree there are a ton of variables at longer distances. I have increased my max range with a bow significantly over the last five years and I just think there is room for improvement with a shotgun?
I have two boxes of hevi-13 3.5" #7's on the way. I will post results.
I have seen the benelli put up good patterns with sumtoy chokes and the hevi 7s. William does a lot of testing with a benelli since he shoots one a good bit. 280s are capable out of the gun.
You're not the only one noticing lower patterns from the nitros this year..they are the 2011 loads, correct? The loads from last year put up great patterns but this year they have fallen some. Im alls with reloader..the 4s and 5s don't justify a triplex much..straight 7s seem the way to go. Im still a little skeptical about the knockdown power at linger distances tho. Tss seems the way to go for high patterns, consistent loads and if they hit as has as some say, the power is there to 60 yards easy.
Quote from: drenalinld on April 19, 2011, 11:35:53 PM
jfair - I have never taken a shot over 40 yards - I agree there are a ton of variables at longer distances. I have increased my max range with a bow significantly over the last five years and I just think there is room for improvement with a shotgun?
I have two boxes of hevi-13 3.5" #7's on the way. I will post results.
Great bird! Congrats! We don't start here in PA for another week or so. Can't wait. Always room for improvement, and this site is a great place to help that process. You can absolutely extend your range with the Hevi's. I believe that I could shoot a bird at 60 yard with my set up, and he would be dead 90% of the time. I hope I don't sound too righteous here but.... I have shot 20+ birds in the Spring season and never had one get away. I plan on keeping that streak alive, so I will not shoot past 40 yards. We could only shoot one a year for a long time in PA, now it's up to two, and we have a month to do it so I don't feel the time pressure. I say shoot to a distance you feel 100% confident and stop there. Good luck!
I guess I should fess up. I have missed with my Mathews!
I really like my IC .665 in my SBE2 shooting TSS
Quotereloader - I can't tell much difference in the #7's and the tri-plex loads when cut open. Big variance in shot size in both. What is your experience
Hevi varies in size, in all sizes. The straight 7s will have more pellets, which in turn places more pellets in your core. While most of the lots I buy have pretty consistant sizes, some do have more egg shaped and snowmen shaped pellets. That said, the patterns are always very nice.
I wouldn't worry about the energy, worry about the pattern density. Keep your shots less than the max distance of where you can consistantly get 100 hits in the 10. Also remember that consistant 100 in the 10 on a calm warm day is much different than a windy or cold day.
We've knocked out two at 53&55yds and three at 50yds with the hevi 7s this year at 1200fps. The 55yd bird's head was riddled with holes and his neck was broken at the waddles. One of the 50yd bird's wing was broken.
Pattern density is the key with turkey ammo. Patterns play out before energy becomes a concern with every factory shell on the market.
You may possibly make 60yds with h13 7s or Nitros, but the only sure fire way to get to 60+ is with handloading. TSS is the easiest for extreme range patterns, but not as friendly for short range.
Good Luck
Reloader
Quote from: Reloader on April 19, 2011, 09:57:51 PM
With factory ammo or Nitro, you will have to go with straight 7s to get to longer ranges. Don't let the triplex fool ya, the smaller shot do the work and the larger pellets are just a marketing scheme. There's not enough of the larger pellets to even come close to a reasonable chance of actually connecting with them. The larger pellets will merely hurt your numbers, hence shortening your effective range.
Guys, Ronnie is exactly right what he is saying. It took me a long time to realize it, but the straight 7's are the way to go. You'll get a lot more hits, and they will kill as far as they will pattern.
The Nitro loads are this year's.
I will try a JH 0.660" as well b/c it is inexpensive and available locally. Probably invest in IC and SumToy at some point b/c I like to experiment.
TSS is in my future, just not sure I can pull it off this Spring? If ordered today, how quickly might one expect to get the components to roll crimp TSS? I have never loaded shotgun ammo, but have quite a bit experience with centerfire rifle handloading. I am itching to try it.
I believe what you guys are telling me about pattern density being more important than energy. I just have to get some #7's in my hands.
jfair - I didn't totally miss with my Mathews, but a gobbler flew off with my arrow in him never to be seen again.
drenalinld, you will be happy with the JH .660 in your SBE 11. I have one in mine and love it. It outperformed a kicks .655, pure gold .670 in my gun. I have not tried anything in a .665 yet but I will before next year. Oh, this was with straight 7's, 6straight 6's and mag-blends.
Quote from: drenalinld on April 20, 2011, 11:39:45 AM
jfair - I didn't totally miss with my Mathews, but a gobbler flew off with my arrow in him never to be seen again.
Yep, me too. Did it a few years back and haven't tried again. He got into the air ontop the hill of a gas line, and locked his wings for a 300 yard coasting pattern. Saw him flop at the bottom of the hill and I sprinted there. No luck finding him. Searched that mountain for two days. Made me sick to my stomach. Someday I may try again.
Hey buddy, why don't you try some Hevi-13 3.5" 2 and 1/4oz #7's? You may just beat out the Nitro shells. I got 360 and 357 out of the Star Dot and Pure Gold chokes for my 835 last week on the very first 2 shots of the day. With numbers like that, why buy Nitro? :lol:
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on April 20, 2011, 12:05:29 PM
Hey buddy, why don't you try some Hevi-13 3.5" 2 and 1/4oz #7's? You may just beat out the Nitro shells. I got 360 and 357 out of the Star Dot and Pure Gold chokes for my 835 last week on the very first 2 shots of the day. With numbers like that, why buy Nitro? :lol:
I have two boxes ordered. I will let you know how they shoot. Agreed on the why buy Nitro. Those Mossy's sure put up some sick #'s!!!
Was that with this year's batch?
Quote from: drenalinld on April 20, 2011, 12:19:12 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on April 20, 2011, 12:05:29 PM
Hey buddy, why don't you try some Hevi-13 3.5" 2 and 1/4oz #7's? You may just beat out the Nitro shells. I got 360 and 357 out of the Star Dot and Pure Gold chokes for my 835 last week on the very first 2 shots of the day. With numbers like that, why buy Nitro? :lol:
I have two boxes ordered. I will let you know how they shoot. Agreed on the why buy Nitro. Those Mossy's sure put up some sick #'s!!!
Was that with this year's batch?
All I know is I bought them in Dec of 2010. I bought some form Cabelas and Mid South Shooters Supply. The lot # I have on the 2 boxes and one is part empty is 300325. So I'm gussing that has to be the lot number I was using I am almost positive.
Quote from: Reloader on April 20, 2011, 11:07:36 AM
Quotereloader - I can't tell much difference in the #7's and the tri-plex loads when cut open. Big variance in shot size in both. What is your experience
Hevi varies in size, in all sizes. The straight 7s will have more pellets, which in turn places more pellets in your core. While most of the lots I buy have pretty consistant sizes, some do have more egg shaped and snowmen shaped pellets. That said, the patterns are always very nice.
I wouldn't worry about the energy, worry about the pattern density. Keep your shots less than the max distance of where you can consistantly get 100 hits in the 10. Also remember that consistant 100 in the 10 on a calm warm day is much different than a windy or cold day.
We've knocked out two at 53&55yds and three at 50yds with the hevi 7s this year at 1200fps. The 55yd bird's head was riddled with holes and his neck was broken at the waddles. One of the 50yd bird's wing was broken.
Pattern density is the key with turkey ammo. Patterns play out before energy becomes a concern with every factory shell on the market.
You may possibly make 60yds with h13 7s or Nitros, but the only sure fire way to get to 60+ is with handloading. TSS is the easiest for extreme range patterns, but not as friendly for short range.
Good Luck
Reloader
Reloader, the 7's you talk about at 1200fps are reloads or factory shells?
Quote from: magmaniac190 on April 20, 2011, 01:13:37 PM
Quote from: Reloader on April 20, 2011, 11:07:36 AM
Quotereloader - I can't tell much difference in the #7's and the tri-plex loads when cut open. Big variance in shot size in both. What is your experience
Hevi varies in size, in all sizes. The straight 7s will have more pellets, which in turn places more pellets in your core. While most of the lots I buy have pretty consistant sizes, some do have more egg shaped and snowmen shaped pellets. That said, the patterns are always very nice.
I wouldn't worry about the energy, worry about the pattern density. Keep your shots less than the max distance of where you can consistantly get 100 hits in the 10. Also remember that consistant 100 in the 10 on a calm warm day is much different than a windy or cold day.
We've knocked out two at 53&55yds and three at 50yds with the hevi 7s this year at 1200fps. The 55yd bird's head was riddled with holes and his neck was broken at the waddles. One of the 50yd bird's wing was broken.
Pattern density is the key with turkey ammo. Patterns play out before energy becomes a concern with every factory shell on the market.
You may possibly make 60yds with h13 7s or Nitros, but the only sure fire way to get to 60+ is with handloading. TSS is the easiest for extreme range patterns, but not as friendly for short range.
Good Luck
Reloader
Reloader, the 7's you talk about at 1200fps are reloads or factory shells?
He's talking about his reloads.
And if anyone is skeptical about what the 1090fps Hevi-13 #7's will do to a turkey at a good 45yds can read this. And that was only a 3" 2oz load out of my 870. I would hate to see what my 835 would have done shooting the Star Dot or Pure Gold with the heavier 3.5 loads which shoot a lot more denser patterns. Like I said who needs Nitro?
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,1421.0.html
drenalinld,
I shoot the same exact setup as you. SB2 with rhino .660 and H517 loads in 4x5x7 and my highest with those is 342 at 40.One thing i would try is to really foul up the barrel.For some reason my gun consistently shoots crappier cleaner then when filthy. First picture is squeaky clean barrel and second one is completely fowled.
(http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/Deerpoo22/d7bdbd14.jpg) (http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/Deerpoo22/37d0a5bd.jpg)
Those are great patterns. I will try it dirty. I posted behind you on another SBE II thread. I will be trying H-13 3.5" #7's as soon as the wind cooperates. I was hoping for results like yours with the Nitros. I now wish I had ordered straight 7's instead of triplex.
Will just be to get me through this Spring anyway. I am going to handload TSS before next Spring.
:icon_thumright:
Nice!
I shot the H-13 3.5" #7's today with a fouled barrel. The temp was 70 degrees and the humidity was 100% with very light winds. The first shot was 292, the second was 273, the 3rd was 270. Next time I will shoot it clean.
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I am shooting a sbe 2 with a .660 jellyhead and 3.5 in heavy 7s and was really dissapointed in the 10 in count only around 200 ......denalinld I sent you a PM
BTW, lot # is 300325. I understand those are some of the good ones?
I shot it again after deep cleaning. I got 280 in the 10" at 40 yards. My average with a dirty barrel was 278. I shot it at 60 yards and put 80 in the 10". I think I could benefit from a little more constriction?