I succumbed to the turkey choke obsession one year and just don't get it. My experience with multiple guns is that it is virtually impossible to have your pattern not kill a turkey 40 yards with just about any #6 or #7 12 gauge load out of a factory full. On the other hand, it is really easy to miss a sub 20 yard turkey with a turkey choke. It seems to me that any range advantage that you think a turkey choke gives you would be offset by the misses. I have definitely shot more turkeys sub 20 yards than over. Turkey chokes just feel like a "need" that has been created by marketing. What am I missing?
Nothing
I've used a turkey choke for 20 years.I have only missed one bird, and he was flying, and it was long range. They are not that great under 15 yards, but you have to use the same load, every time you hunt, if you want to get good with the extra full.
You are right it's is a marketing thing, but that can be said about most things in the Hunting and Fishing industry. Most of it is designed to catch us the sportsman. I feel they are doing a good job of it if you look in my hunting closet or in my boat.
Your not missing on anything....Some turkey chokes better than others, some just Meh....I just used Carlson chokes and kills just fine....I stopped there....No IC, Jebs, and Kicks, etc..endless....oh Mullers....Very pricey....people pay it.....oh, let talk about shells.....$50.00 plus for TSS....Good grief man.
I would not shoot at a turkey at 40 yards with #7 1/2 lead shot. Regardless of the choke.
It's all about choices. If you want a gun capable of an ethical killing pattern at 40 yards, then it's going to be tight at 20 yrds. Even a stock full choke is pretty tight at 20 yards with a good turkey load, while probably not being able to put 100 in the 10" at 40 yards, the widely accepted minimum to ensure an ethical kill. A simple set of clamp on sights will help with those close in shots. I'd rather take a chance of missing one up close, than "missing" one at 40. Most "misses" at 40 are not misses at all, it was a failure to put enough pellets in the vital area to kill due to a poor pattern density. It boils down to what your personal methods and limits of the hunting you do as to how to best choke your gun.
A deer rifle can miss a deer at 10yards if sighted in at 200 too. If you want the most effective pattern at 40 yards then you should also know where your gun is hitting at 10 and aim accordingly.
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My pattern told me otherwise.
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Not an obsession really, its our ethical obligation to the animal. If your stock choke gives you a good pattern at the max distance that you will shoot, you are done. If not, try till you do. Everybody has a conscience, some just don't listen. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck everyone, Al Baker
Same can be said about anything out there. Some like fast cars and soup them up for high performance while some drive stock cars without doing anything but gassing it up and changing the oil. Some cultivate their gardens and some feel a hoe does just fine. Some run non ethanol fuel while others don't.
Fanning vs non fanning. Dekes vs no dekes. It's all personal preference and what you feel works for YOU. We were never meant to understand why someone else does something. Shoot whatever you want and be happy.
I'm a pattern junky and I like chasing the numbers almost as much as I like chasing the birds.....but not quite :OGturkeyhead:
Its a hobby of its own.
See the above. Just cause.
While I have killed quite a few birds with a factory full choke in a Remington 870 and a fixed full in a Model 12, it by no means makes me want to not have a better pattern.
I use turkey chokes to maximize my efficiency in killing turkeys. The shot is the least of my turkey hunt. I just want to know when it gets to that point, there is very little question as to the outcome.
You are not missing anything except a lighter wallet.
I have killed multiple birds in the 50s with the factory extra full that came with my 835 and 3" shells.
When my dad started turkey hunting years ago it was with a full choke and 2.75" shells.
The hunting industries marketing is geared around making the consumer believe if they buy this product, being successful will be easier.
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Lots of money has been spent trying to overcome boredom. :z-twocents:
Quote from: zelmo1 on March 19, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Not an obsession really, its our ethical obligation to the animal. If your stock choke gives you a good pattern at the max distance that you will shoot, you are done. If not, try till you do. Everybody has a conscience, some just don't listen. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck everyone, Al Baker
^^^^Amen^^^^
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on March 19, 2018, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: zelmo1 on March 19, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Not an obsession really, its our ethical obligation to the animal. If your stock choke gives you a good pattern at the max distance that you will shoot, you are done. If not, try till you do. Everybody has a conscience, some just don't listen. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck everyone, Al Baker
^^^^Amen^^^^
X2. If people will read and listen to the Posts and Knowledge on this site, 99% of the work is already done for you. Take your gun model, look at what chokes and ammo work well together and pick one. DONE! NO CHASING!!!!!!! NO OBSESSION!!!!!!
Quote from: zelmo1 on March 19, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Not an obsession really, its our ethical obligation to the animal. If your stock choke gives you a good pattern at the max distance that you will shoot, you are done. If not, try till you do. Everybody has a conscience, some just don't listen. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck everyone, Al Baker
Dang man, I don't think it can be said any better than this. Well said Mr. Al. Worth way more than 2 cents brother.
Quote from: zelmo1 on March 19, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Not an obsession really, its our ethical obligation to the animal. If your stock choke gives you a good pattern at the max distance that you will shoot, you are done. If not, try till you do. Everybody has a conscience, some just don't listen. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck everyone, Al Baker
I get your point, but I am curious if anyone actually bought a turkey choke because their factory choke would not put at least a couple BB's in in the vertibrae/brain area every time at 40 yards?
On this subject, I really don't have any strong feelings one way or the other. I am not a pellet counter, but I can see how being one could be beneficial,...and it has nothing to do with whether you get 100 or 500 holes in a 10" circle at 40 yards. It is common sense that, for most of us, the more you do something, the better you are at it. Guys that go out and shoot their shotguns all the time are probably better and more consistent shooters than those of us that don't.
I, for one, don't enjoy getting the snot kicked out of me shooting umpteen turkey loads to the point that my shoulder looks like ground, bloodshot hamburger to see if I can find a gun/choke/load combination that will put a few more pellets in a target at whatever range. And even though I have hunted turkeys for a way long time, I still get excited enough when a gobbler shows up that I want to have a little forgiveness in my shotgun pattern so that if I am off an inch or two one way or the other with my aim, he is still going to be as dead as the guy that can blow his punkin head off at that very same range,...if indeed that guy can control his emotions enough to be able to center his shot every time on a gobblers head when he pulls the trigger.
From what I have seen in my turkey hunting lifetime, those guys are pretty rare. If you are one of them, good for you. If you are like me (and most guys I know) and are not, you are probably better off shooting a gun/choke combo that will accommodate your excitement when that gobbler shows up. That accommodation does not come in the form of a gun/choke that shoots a baseball-size pattern at twenty yards. It comes more in the form of a basketball size pattern,...or even a beach-ball size pattern.
True, you may not get 200 or 300 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards or more, but you probably will also not feel the frustration of having a gobbler that you missed at twenty run or fly off while you sit there dumbfounded that he is doing so.
The point to be made is that there is a balance to be had in this endeavor. Pellet count at 40 yards is not the "end all be all" for most of us turkey hunters. As others have said, the goal is to be certain, within the realm of reasonability, that when we pull the trigger, that gobbler is going to go down and stay there. For some, that comes in the form of delving deeply into the finer points of shotguns, chokes, and turkey loads and counting pellets at 40 yards, but for many of us, it does not.
Neither attitude is necessarily wrong.... :icon_thumright:
I get so little free time to pursue turkeys in the Spring that I need to make the most of my hunting opportunities. I want a thick, kick @$$, dense cloud of shot that will wallop a turkeys head and not force me have to go looking for him. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I'm willing to pay to make it happen.
Is there a worse felling than wounding & losing a gobbler you thought enough of to drop the hammer on?
I spend money and time making sure my gun is dead on and as lethal as it can be at all normal hunting ranges. I haven't ever shot a turkey beyond 36 yards, but if I ever need to, I know what the gun will do. I have also killed more inside of 25 yards than beyond, with plenty of single digit distance kills. What's wrong with having your pattern as good as you can possibly get it? I stopped shooting lead because I had a gobbler carry some off one day, that I never found, and never saw him again. He probably became raccoon food and that was unacceptable to me. I felt miserable and decided to bump my lethality up to as good as I could get it. Since than, every turkey I shot at has dropped and gone home with me & I like that.
Jim
Well said GoobleNut
If you watch any of the old Primos videos when he's using the wood stocked 870....that's a fixed modified barell and he killed a bunch on camera out to 40 yards with it. I don't have a scope on my gun and I don't have a problem not shooting at turkeys past 40 yards without a scope a turkey at 40 yards isn't much of a target to aim at I don't understand the people shooting at 50-60 yards and saying they missed judged it... get a range finder lol. I like a even pattern out to 40 but not softball size at 20. I've killed way more around 25-30 than 40.
Quote from: chow hound on March 19, 2018, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: zelmo1 on March 19, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Not an obsession really, its our ethical obligation to the animal. If your stock choke gives you a good pattern at the max distance that you will shoot, you are done. If not, try till you do. Everybody has a conscience, some just don't listen. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck everyone, Al Baker
I get your point, but I am curious if anyone actually bought a turkey choke because their factory choke would not put at least a couple BB's in in the vertibrae/brain area every time at 40 yards?
Here is the problem. Most people will say, "I'm going turkey hunting", grab their trusty shotgun with a full choke, grab the first box of shells they can find, shoot one shell at a 11 x 14 turkey target, get a half of a dozen shot in the head and neck and call it Good. No Way! As Al said, we need to be ethical hunters and make DARN sure when we pull that trigger we make an ethical kill. As I stated, use the Knowledge on this site to have a Gun, Choke and Ammo to get that ethical kill. You don't have to spend a ton of money or chase numbers to kill a turkey, just Listen and Learn.
Not missing a thing, I too was sucked into the whole choke, load, pattern deal 20+ years ago as that is what I was being taught. In the end for me it doesn't make a difference a turkey choke and load and I'm killing a bird. I/we kill sub 20 all the time we hunt in the 15-17 yard range. Thing that came out of this was the need for a scope at that range, I am sighted dead on at 15 yards and no missing with this, works great for the kids. Put the circle on the neck and dead bird.
MK M GOBL
You are fine with whatever you choose be it tss or #7 lead as long as you follow a few basic principals. Be familiar with your effective range, practice with your gun and have some self control. The last part is the one most struggle with in my opinion. I include myself in that statement. I have been there and done that and learned from it. Better to leave him to gobble another day then leave him rotting in the woods with no hope of a rematch.
Quote from: bbcoach on March 19, 2018, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: chow hound on March 19, 2018, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: zelmo1 on March 19, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Not an obsession really, its our ethical obligation to the animal. If your stock choke gives you a good pattern at the max distance that you will shoot, you are done. If not, try till you do. Everybody has a conscience, some just don't listen. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck everyone, Al Baker
I get your point, but I am curious if anyone actually bought a turkey choke because their factory choke would not put at least a couple BB's in in the vertibrae/brain area every time at 40 yards?
Here is the problem. Most people will say, "I'm going turkey hunting", grab their trusty shotgun with a full choke, grab the first box of shells they can find, shoot one shell at a 11 x 14 turkey target, get a half of a dozen shot in the head and neck and call it Good. No Way! As Al said, we need to be ethical hunters and make DARN sure when we pull that trigger we make an ethical kill. As I stated, use the Knowledge on this site to have a Gun, Choke and Ammo to get that ethical kill. You don't have to spend a ton of money or chase numbers to kill a turkey, just Listen and Learn.
Personally witnessed this at WMA near me. I was set up and calling a gobbler. First light. I heard a hen behind me and thought this could be good. Little did I know it was some dude that had walked right past my truck and set up 100 yards behind me. No other gobbling birds in my hearing range. He should have known where I was. The bird looped around me towards him (he was calling more as the bird got closer and I realized what happened). I then heard BOOM BOOM BOOM and watched the tom fly out of sight. Walked over to where he was and he was gone (looking for the bird I reckon). There was one #6 and two #7.5 dove load hulls where he had shot. I picked them up and placed them on the hood of his truck neatly in a row as I left. I had to drive back by as I left and he was at hisd truck. I stopped and chatted. Asked him if he found his bird. He was surprised I knew it and said no. I asked what choke he was using and he did not know. We never discussed the hulls.
I agree we overthink this, but knowing our gun and our abilities is our obligation. My first spring bird was with an 870, modified choke and some high brass #5s. But my buddy called him into my lap and told me to hold until about 20 steps.
Quote from: dublelung on March 19, 2018, 01:38:20 PM
Same can be said about anything out there. Some like fast cars and soup them up for high performance while some drive stock cars without doing anything but gassing it up and changing the oil. Some cultivate their gardens and some feel a hoe does just fine. Some run non ethanol fuel while others don't.
Fanning vs non fanning. Dekes vs no dekes. It's all personal preference and what you feel works for YOU. We were never meant to understand why someone else does something. Shoot whatever you want and be happy.
If I had a garden my "hoe" would be working it
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I was very nearly sucked into the choke tube game. Bought a Vortex Venom instead. Best thing that ever happened to my turkey rig.
Why do we spend so much time arguing about things like this? If someone wants to spend the money to be as deadly as possibly at 40 yards, let them. Let's all be happy and get along, turkey season is almost here in TN!
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I get really good patterns from my factory full, but I've been wondering if a ported turkey choke would help with recoil.
Quote from: Lazy coyote on March 20, 2018, 12:43:07 AM
I get really good patterns from my factory full, but I've been wondering if a ported turkey choke would help with recoil.
I was always happy with my factory Remington turkey chokes and Federal flight control shells, but on my newest build it just wouldn't pattern. So I thought I would give a ported choke a try. I bought a .650 ported choke thinking it would help with the recoil. The pattern is to my liking but I feel no difference in recoil. The only thing I notice is my middle finger doesn't hit the trigger guard but the barrel still lifts the same.
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Nothing wrong with finding the best tool for the job. I'm more confused by guys who want to shoot arrows at turkeys, or shoot them with a .410, "just to raise the bar a little". To each his own I suppose....
Quote from: Uncle Nicky on March 20, 2018, 05:38:01 AM
Quote from: BrowningGuy88 on March 19, 2018, 02:12:42 PM
While I have killed quite a few birds with a factory full choke in a Remington 870 and a fixed full in a Model 12, it by no means makes me want to not have a better pattern.
I use turkey chokes to maximize my efficiency in killing turkeys. The shot is the least of my turkey hunt. I just want to know when it gets to that point, there is very little question as to the outcome.
Nothing wrong with finding the best tool for the job. I'm more confused by guys who want to shoot arrows at turkeys, or shoot them with a .410, "just to raise the bar a little". To each his own I suppose....
Like Clint says,"A good man knows his limitations. " ....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180320/22f2ca31d1fcfce31c17b2b009d08da2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180320/39efe9f1aaf810476237d83a9bf335bf.jpg)
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Quote from: Uncle Nicky on March 20, 2018, 05:38:01 AM
Quote from: BrowningGuy88 on March 19, 2018, 02:12:42 PM
While I have killed quite a few birds with a factory full choke in a Remington 870 and a fixed full in a Model 12, it by no means makes me want to not have a better pattern.
I use turkey chokes to maximize my efficiency in killing turkeys. The shot is the least of my turkey hunt. I just want to know when it gets to that point, there is very little question as to the outcome.
Nothing wrong with finding the best tool for the job. I'm more confused by guys who want to shoot arrows at turkeys, or shoot them with a .410, "just to raise the bar a little". To each his own I suppose....
Definitely to each his own.
I've killed them with the 410 too and probably will again at some point, but it will be with TSS if I do.
I think the biggest thing in all this is that we enjoy the hunt, have the knowledge of our gun/ammo ability and then the self control to not pull the trigger unless the Tom is well within our kill range.
Quote from: Gobble! on March 19, 2018, 02:02:35 PM
Its a hobby of its own.
I think that's your answer...