I currently shoot Nitro H517 4x5x7. What improvement would I get with going to TSS #8 or #9. I understand more shot on target, but what about knockdown? Can I shoot the same distance(or more) with equal effectiveness? Not trying to start up a distance debate, I guess I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the smaller shot size being more effective.
Tss weighs more...
The Nitro H517 is a good load but I wouldn't put it in the same class as TSS. There's a reason Nitro and Federal has jumped on the TSS wagon...
Hevi shot once was the standard...it does not even fit in the same boat as TSS by a long shot.
Tss stomps hevi shot in every way. Heavy shot is bad , tss is bad to the bone.
Quote from: spencerhoosier on February 13, 2018, 03:55:32 PM
I currently shoot Nitro H517 4x5x7. What improvement would I get with going to TSS #8 or #9. I understand more shot on target, but what about knockdown? Can I shoot the same distance(or more) with equal effectiveness? Not trying to start up a distance debate, I guess I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the smaller shot size being more effective.
How dead do you want them?
Do you enjoy shooting paper?
If you have a good choke/shell combo that is currently in production, are very confident in it at the range you shoot and have at least 4-5 years worth of shells, then I say why bother hunting the next best thing?
We killed 11 long beards last years with TSS #9 shot, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Stuff works and we will keep shooting it. And another thing the birds do not bleed like they do when shot with Heviweights..
Quote from: Fullfan on February 13, 2018, 05:35:21 PM
We killed 11 long beards last years with TSS #9 shot, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Stuff works and we will keep shooting it. And another thing the birds do not bleed like they do when shot with Heviweights..
You lost me on the bleeding part?
It's about Trauma not knockdown (more broken bones, more blood loss and more nerve and brain damage). Put more pellets on target (head and neck) with #8 and #9 TSS equals trauma. More shot on target with TSS will equal quicker kills. My Hevi-13 7's destroy turkeys and I've got plenty so I won't be getting on the 12 gauge TSS train. If I decide to go with a 20 in the future, I would look at TSS but IMO 12 gauge TSS is overkill. Call them in close and you don't need much to kill a bird.
Knock down is irrelevant..the tss will give u better penetration and more range. I switched a few years ago from Nitros to tss
I can't remember how many I've killed with the stuff, never noticed a bleeding difference between lead, HTL, and Tss.
Check out this thread http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,70176.30.html Cut open the neck of a dead turkey and see the damage that is done. You can't see much damage from outside but their is a lot of damage under the skin. More pellets on the head and neck equals more trauma damage.
What kind of choke are y'all shooting with the TSS.
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What's the difference in price between Hevi-13 & TSS. I have been shooting the Hevi-13 for 4 seasons now with nothing but dead turkeys. Is the TSS cheaper? I really don't know much about it.
Hevi 13 density is 13g/cc
Federal tss 18g/cc
Nitro tss 18.5g/cc
Much denser more retained energy from a much smaller pellet. I was told hevi 13 #7 hits around lead #6 in energy terms.
TSS #9 is around lead #5 in energy.
U can go up on 30% more hits in a pattern with the actual pellet being way more wicked.
That's why u see even tss #9.5-10s being used some. You can go down in size and still match hevi #7 performance.
Quote from: B.Fipps.1 on February 13, 2018, 08:10:55 PM
What kind of choke are y'all shooting with the TSS.
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Indian creek 555 in my Benelli m2 20gauge
I will say this, One bird. That's how many you have to shoot with tss to get on the bandwagon. I killed my first tss Gobbler at exactly? 40 paces and I have a very long stride. It flattened him. I was sold. Done it with a 20 gauge. Since I've used it in both a 12 and 20. As long as I can shoot it I'll look no farther.
Quote from: Gooserbat on February 13, 2018, 10:50:24 PM
I will say this, One bird. That's how many you have to shoot with tss to get on the bandwagon. I killed my first tss Gobbler at exactly? 40 paces and I have a very long stride. It flattened him. I was sold. Done it with a 20 gauge. Since I've used it in both a 12 and 20. As long as I can shoot it I'll look no farther.
I agree. The first bird my 20ga killed was with my 12 year old cousin. He shot him at 30+ yards and it knocked the bird over on his back and he never flopped. Ended up killing 5 birds with it last year. No going back!
Quote from: spencerhoosier on February 13, 2018, 03:55:32 PM
I currently shoot Nitro H517 4x5x7. What improvement would I get with going to TSS #8 or #9. I understand more shot on target, but what about knockdown? Can I shoot the same distance(or more) with equal effectiveness? Not trying to start up a distance debate, I guess I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the smaller shot size being more effective.
The pellets in those H517 shells is roughly 8% denser than lead. TSS is roughly 33% denser than the shot in the shell you are using now. The denser TSS shot will allow you to shoot smaller shot, such as #9s, which will give you more pellets in the load that will all out perform the #7s in your current load. Its been said a TSS #9 will penetrate similar to a lead #4 but I have not tested this. I can tell you however TSS #9s will kill birds all day at 40 yards and provide wiggle room on shots you misjudge the distance.
I've broken leg and wing bones at 40+ yards with #9 shot. Now I try to get it in #9.5s if possible. I killed my slam with a 20ga and now I'm work on one with a 28ga. That's the beauty of TSS. It allows you to go down in gauge for a lighter, smaller, more compact gun with less recoil and still have the effective range of a 12ga with production ammo.
I have not shot TSS... But I understand a bit about the ballistics...
Which is heavier, a pound of lead, or a pound of feathers?
If a #9 TSS pellet weighs the same as a #6 lead pellet, even though the #9 pellets are smaller, you will still have the same number of pellets in a 1.25 oz load of lead #6's as compared to a 1.25 oz load of TSS #9's.
There is no doubt as to that denser materials make for better ballistics (at least up to a point)... These denser pellets will certainly make a bigger difference in longer range shooting.... They will not allow you to hit a bird you would have missed with another pellet at closer ranges though...
But, in hunting since 2000 with Hevi-shot, I have not had one single situation in which a different pellet or load would have resulted in a bird that I did not get... And, although I do use Hevi-shot, I doubt that any of the birds taken would not have been just as dead with lead. (In fact I accidently used a #2 steel waterfowl load to kill one turkey at about 30 yards, which is vastly inferior for turkey hunting to any loads being discussed)
Recently in anticipation of non-toxic regulations, I purchased some Hevi-shot for a relatively cheap price, and probably have enough loads to last me the next 15+ years, if I really do a lot of shooting and missing.
Were I in the market, and had the chance to pay slightly more for TSS, I likely would... As others have stated, I am all for increasing my advantages to my favor... But, out to 40 yards with a properly choked shotgun, I doubt many of us would see much difference in results from Hevi-shot to TSS, or even lead for that matter.
Now, when my kids start hunting with sub-gauge guns, I will very likely be looking into TSS....
Im no math genius but how do you figure 6 lead and 9 tss at 1.25 would have the same number of pellets? 6 lead is about 220 pellets an oz and 9 tss is about 360 an oz. Again i could be and probably am wrong though.
Quote from: aristico on February 14, 2018, 06:04:33 PM
Im no math genius but how do you figure 6 lead and 9 tss at 1.25 would have the same number of pellets? 6 lead is about 220 pellets an oz and 9 tss is about 360 an oz. Again i could be and probably am wrong though.
You are correct. Smaller pellets take up less space therefore allowing more to be put in the hull. Simple really. If someone has not shot tss I just can't figure how they can form a opinion. I have shot it going on 5 years and there is not another shot that can even compare to it.
TSS 9 shot is closer to the lead 7 1/2 shot by weight .
Most won't care how many you can fit in the shell as with factory loads which are loaded by the ounce.
No I haven't shot it either so no argument about the effectiveness.
Hevi shot didn't either. That 6 shot killed like crazy.
Federal Hw7 out of a 20 guage killed like super crazy.
Both weighed real close to lead 6's . TSS 9's don't , which is probably why some are asking questions.
Most handloaders use 1-5/8 ounces of #9 TSS in their 20 ga loads. That's a heap of pellets.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 14, 2018, 06:53:19 PM
Most handloaders use 1-5/8 ounces of #9 TSS in their 20 ga loads. That's a heap of pellets.
Yes it is . What velocity you think you are running with those?
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 13, 2018, 04:57:06 PM
Tss stomps hevi shot in every way. Heavy shot is bad , tss is bad to the bone.
Lol
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Quote from: Marc on February 14, 2018, 05:57:11 PM
If a #9 TSS pellet weighs the same as a #6 lead pellet, even though the #9 pellets are smaller, you will still have the same number of pellets in a 1.25 oz load of lead #6's as compared to a 1.25 oz load of TSS #9's.
Uhhh... ?