Looks like MO. numbers are down about 5000. Lots of rain may have kept hunters out of the woods or from getting to a spot anyway. There were also two nonfatal shootings reported. Hunter shot another hunter and one self inflicted. That has to be the biggest head scratcher to me.
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Number of birds were down from flooding nests out right after season last year, and number of hunters were down this year due to weather and flooding contributing to the low harvest. With the early spring we had, I'm sure this ruined many more nests this year. I'd bet next spring will be even worse. Possibly even with 3 full weeks of good weather. Which never happens in a Missouri turkey season.
We had a great season in MO. 6 for 6 on my farm. It wasn't easy, but we found the birds. The lack of jakes has be concerned though. Could be tough for a few years. I think those numbers would have been right on par with last year if not for the record flooding we had in parts of the state. If i would have been in town, I literally would have not been able to get to my hunting spots. Hopefully it stays dry and the hens can renest.
Gobbling birds were practically non-existent in SE Missouri where we hunted the 2nd week of the season. And I was told the 3rd week wasn't any better. Worst Missouri season ever for me and I've been hunting there 25 years.
It was definitely that monsoon. I hear youth season and the first two weeks of the regular season weren't far behind last year's totals for the same time periods...BUT that soggy third week... Yuck.
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 11, 2017, 10:23:59 AM
It was definitely that monsoon. I hear youth season and the first two weeks of the regular season weren't far behind last year's totals for the same time periods...BUT that soggy third week... Yuck.
All the rain came late second week and completely rained out the second weekend until Tuesday morning of the third week. That morning was beautiful if you were in an area not flooded. Then by the time the third weekend, and final days of season, rolled around all the floods crested and put even more spots underwater. Another reason I believe Missouri's season should be four weeks long.... The numbers Missouri has they honestly should be, there's states with less birds that are open over twice as long.
Quote from: HookedonHooks on May 11, 2017, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 11, 2017, 10:23:59 AM
It was definitely that monsoon. I hear youth season and the first two weeks of the regular season weren't far behind last year's totals for the same time periods...BUT that soggy third week... Yuck.
All the rain came late second week and completely rained out the second weekend until Tuesday morning of the third week. That morning was beautiful if you were in an area not flooded. Then by the time the third weekend, and final days of season, rolled around all the floods crested and put even more spots underwater. Another reason I believe Missouri's season should be four weeks long.... The numbers Missouri has they honestly should be, there's states with less birds that are open over twice as long.
I don't disagree in the least with you, but you will never see a four week season in Missouri, IMO.
There will be a big change coming for the 2018 season that is going to be controversial for some. If you want to win some money on a bet, bet on all day turkey hunting in Missouri in 2018. A lot of those rainy mornings in Missouri where I am located were followed up by pretty evenings, but the honest folks couldn't hunt.
I would love for them to open the season up to all day in MO.... I understand the reasoning behind it, but a short season and half days makes it actually pretty tough some years. All day would be way cooler than an extra week, and I wouldn't complain.
I would be happy with a 3 week season but all day hunts. I've only hunted later afternoons a few times when I took my son during youth season.
I think MO should consider their turkey numbers by region and apply limits as applicable. I can only speak for the areas I hunt but the numbers have fallen in the last 10 years.
Quote from: Hooksfan on May 11, 2017, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: HookedonHooks on May 11, 2017, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 11, 2017, 10:23:59 AM
It was definitely that monsoon. I hear youth season and the first two weeks of the regular season weren't far behind last year's totals for the same time periods...BUT that soggy third week... Yuck.
All the rain came late second week and completely rained out the second weekend until Tuesday morning of the third week. That morning was beautiful if you were in an area not flooded. Then by the time the third weekend, and final days of season, rolled around all the floods crested and put even more spots underwater. Another reason I believe Missouri's season should be four weeks long.... The numbers Missouri has they honestly should be, there's states with less birds that are open over twice as long.
I don't disagree in the least with you, but you will never see a four week season in Missouri, IMO.
There will be a big change coming for the 2018 season that is going to be controversial for some. If you want to win some money on a bet, bet on all day turkey hunting in Missouri in 2018. A lot of those rainy mornings in Missouri where I am located were followed up by pretty evenings, but the honest folks couldn't hunt.
I'm all for that. I've had to sneak out on several hot birds at 1PM over the last few years.
Here comes another "decoy" type thread. Lol. Lots of all day hunting hours in MO haters on here. I started a thread a couple years ago after I got a survey. For the record,I'm all in. Iowa has been all day hunting as long as I can remember. I also call BS on the hunters bump hens off the nest idea. Hunters arn't the only people in the woods in the spring.
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Quote from: fallhnt on May 11, 2017, 08:01:56 PM
Here comes another "decoy" type thread. Lol. Lots of all day hunting hours in MO haters on here. I started a thread a couple years ago after I got a survey. For the record,I'm all in. Iowa has been all day hunting as long as I can remember. I also call BS on the hunters bump hens off the nest idea. Hunters arn't the only people in the woods in the spring.
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Exactly. The mushroom hunters stomp around more than turkey hunters. Plus, afternoon hunting gives kids a chance to hunt after school.
Let me begin by saying that I've thought like many of you a lot of times during my fifty years of turkey hunting. I've taken the survey they often send hunter to ask what they think of the current regulations. I don't give them all A 's on their report card. But I do agree with them when they say they want to provide a quality hunt for the hunter. No gobbling is not a quality hunt. Some of the boys down in the southern states complain about not hearing anything for days. Poor hatches, lots of rain and way to much poaching before and after season don't leave much for a good hunt. I would not change 1.00 quit time or the three week season. I live in s.e Missouri and you wouldn't believe the amount of hunting land and timber that's forever gone. To many hunters in a small area. I'll keep things as they are now. Turkey's were never this hard to hunt. More time to hunt every day or longer seasons ain't going to cure anything. This idea of I got to fill two tags every year is about gone. Sorry boys but I couldn't agree with your ideas. Buford
Buford,
I respect anyone who has chased these birds for 50 years.
I assume you hunted in Missouri and remember the golden days of the 80s.
I also have no doubt you are seeing fewer birds than in days past. The harvest numbers for southeast Mo reflect what you say.
However; there is no evidence that hunting has played any role in the lower numbers and no evidence liberalization of hunting season will have negative impacts on populations. You identified the main reason....loss of habitat and very poor nesting conditions.
I guess where I stand now is that if the most conservative regulations aren't going to protect against the factors that really determine production, and if going more liberal isn't going to be harmful, I see no point in not offering greater opportunities to hunt.
If things get too bad, drive across the state
We had more birds than I have ever seen here in Southwest Mo this year.
Burford I am so with you
Anybody that thinks longer hunting hrs. More pressure is gonna benefit the turkeys need to rethink the situation.
I am from out of state were you can hunt all day and you can't hardly ever hear a p.m. turkey gobble way to much pressure and if mo. Starts it I promise the same for yall. Yall have a great thing going with your turkeys don't let the politicians and biologist take it from you. And from people I talked to from missouri that's who is pushing it. Rant complete
I agree with you 100% Burford. If anything they should let you southern boys start a week or 2 earlier.
I will say this, if they cut us back two weeks and 1 o'clock hunts it would help us out on birds big time,
80's and early 90's were a boom for us ,too much hunting pressure and you can't buy a p.m. Gobble,
All day hunts with our bird numbers dropping is idiotic and no tagging
The fact that you are dictating the birds populations and harvest to be primarily based of hunting pressure is rather idiotic and somewhat ridiculous. It is evident the last few years we've had an all time low for nesting conditions, the springs have been weird every year, and a whole week or more of the season is always washed out. This combined is what contributes to the numbers dwindling, and lack of hunters killing birds. My father works for the MO Dept. of Conservation, and while he is a damage bioilogist, he gets the inside scoop on a lot of things. Longer seasons next year are very likely to come, while the argument did involve hunting pressure, that wasn't the main factor. It's as simple as the season is only three weeks, and only half days of hunting, even if they did manage to peg the prime of breeding season as they always attempt to, they're still usually off by a weekish on one end, and add that to another week of bad weather, and most hunters only get a week of good hunting. If they have a job, only one weekeend. That is the issue that the Dept. is currently wrestling with, not worried about tons more out of staters if they open it up all day.
I feel for the most part the MDC's main concern is the all mighty dollar. All day hunting would be more appealing to out of state hunters. I think the cost of a out of state tag is one of the highest in the country. I don't know just still a little bitter about all of the millons they have spent on Elk in my area that no one wanted and will never get to hunt yet our quail habitat and population is all but non existent. :z-twocents:
rain been tough on them for sure
We have all day hunting in N.C. but after noon hunting is tough hardly ever hear a bird gobble don't care much for it been hunting them for 50+ years the birds havent been gobbling good for me last couple of years hardly ever get on a hot bird think all these coyote has a lot to do with it they only couple a couple times in tree an a couple on ground tough to kill a bird when they act that way . I called up 3 long beards this year killed 2 the only 1 that gobbled I missed
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned our hog problem. It seems our turkey numbers have went down since I started seeing more hog sign. I'm hunting SEMO and would agree with a lot of folks who point toward poor nesting conditions but I can't help but think the hogs have taken a toll on our birds as well. I've been hunting for over 30 years and I accept the fact the we aren't gonna have hunting like we did in the 80's and 90's but I certainly feel like we can do better. It seems like the numbers have really dropped since 2006 or so.
I have talked to one GA hunter who blames poultry farming for decrease in their turkey numbers in his location. He believes disease is transmitted through using the manure for fertilizer.
If our numbers haven't dropped as much as I think, I can certainly say the amount of gobbling is way down. Maybe the birds have just adapted but I doubt that's the case. The most I heard during season was 2 different birds gobbling and that was only on 2 mornings and from the limb for just a few times. The bird I killed gobbled 3 times, the bird I missed gobbled 0 times.
Quote from: Rzrbac on May 15, 2017, 03:17:42 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned our hog problem. It seems our turkey numbers have went down since I started seeing more hog sign. I'm hunting SEMO and would agree with a lot of folks who point toward poor nesting conditions but I can't help but think the hogs have taken a toll on our birds as well. I've been hunting for over 30 years and I accept the fact the we aren't gonna have hunting like we did in the 80's and 90's but I certainly feel like we can do better. It seems like the numbers have really dropped since 2006 or so.
I have talked to one GA hunter who blames poultry farming for decrease in their turkey numbers in his location. He believes disease is transmitted through using the manure for feow rtilizer.
If our numbers haven't dropped as much as I think, I can certainly say the amount of gobbling is way down. Maybe the birds have just adapted but I doubt that's the case. The most I heard during season was 2 different birds gobbling and that was only on 2 mornings and from the limb for just a few times. The bird I killed gobbled 3 times, the bird I missed gobbled 0 times.
Thats an interesting thought on the hogs. I wondered the same thing when I lived in Louisiana and we had very few birds. Then I hunted in Texas where the hogs were even thicker, but so were the turkeys. I do know hogs are very detrimental to wildlife, but not sure the extent on turkeys.
I have also often thought about poultry production and spreading litter on the fields, but nearly every farm I hunt in Missouri has turkey litter spread on it and has for the past 20 years. Maybe all it takes is one outbreak of a particular strain to do damage. Not saying it couldn't happen, but two of my best properties actually have turkey barns on them, and the barn managers are actually concerned about the wild turkeys being too close to the domestics.
I am not computer savvy enough to post up the links, but I do know there is a pretty extensive five year study being done on radio collared birds in Missouri. I believe it is in its third Spring. I understand the early findings are that hunting mortality may be far lower than previously believed. Hopefully by the time it is concluded we will have better data to understand the population fluctuations in Missouri.