Simple open-ended question for you. Not trying to editorialize as I own them all. Where do or would you draw the line on use of technology in turkey hunting? No matter whether it's legal or not...
Electronic Calls?
Guns (chokes, HTL shot, gauges, "smart guns"...)?
Decoys (motion...)?
Scouting aids (real time cameras/alerts)?
Timing feeders?
Listening devices?
Think about the recent evolution of technological aids and the advantages that give their users. What's next and when is enough enough???
E calls are illegal here and I wouldn't see a need for em anyway. Baiting is also illegal here and turkeys are very vulnerable to it so I wouldn't support it ever...
Trail cameras or drones may help in some instances but really all they do is tell you the birds are there. You still have to hunt them. I had it easy enough looking out my window and seeing a turkey across the back field today I couldn't say a camera would help anymore. But I still had to go and hunt for the bird before I got a shot. Almost got busted once.
I guess I would draw the line at motorized decoys and posting about specific public land on the Internet. I may eventually be against fanning too if the population suffers from it... very successful method for any tom with hens, and dangerous in some instances, so it should be watched closely.
As for posting about public land online, I used to say where I killed my deer or turkeys several years ago, because I was proud of it, but now only people who know me know where I kill them. It's too easy to pick a spot to scout out based on what you Google search, and that eliminates all the work trying to find a good piece of public ground that most of us had to do. And results in overcrowding because everyone read on forums that WMA X was loaded with turkeys or some guys posted all their success from their trip to WMA Y.
Great reply Catman! Do you think cameras give you any advantage. Seems like they've made me more efficient... good mention of drones too!
Quote from: Spurs Up on May 05, 2017, 08:14:36 PM
Simple open-ended question for you. Not trying to editorialize as I own them all. Where do or would you draw the line on use of technology in turkey hunting? No matter whether it's legal or not...
Electronic Calls?
I don't even like using them on snows, where legal.
Guns (chokes, HTL shot, gauges, "smart guns"...)?
HTL is fine, I shoot HW7 in a 20.
Decoys (motion...)?
Decoys in fields I do, would never use artificial or even hand caused motion though
Scouting aids (real time cameras/alerts)?
Only my eyes. My nephew puts out a camera pre season on out lease, but I don't pay it any mind. I moon it when I remember it is there and I am scouting. There is so many sand roads there, you just don't need that.
Timing feeders?
No. But chufas feed them, and I have hunted leases that fed those to THE GD HOGS! ;)
Listening devices?
No. I even co-invented one over a few beers with a buddy of mine and have a cousin with the technology to make it, but I decided, even if it made me money, I would rather it not be in the sport, so we just talk about it.
Think about the recent evolution of technological aids and the advantages that give their users. What's next and when is enough enough???
Answers in the quote.
For me, enough is enough when it loses the fair chase for me. All the holier than thou's like to preach about decoys and judge others. I am not into that at all. It is about what makes it a sport for me. My deer hunting evolution went from Rifle, to muzzleloader, to pistol, to compound to recurve. I accomplished my goals and got bored. I felt like a buzzard in a tree. I quit enjoying the HUNT. I enjoy the HUNT with turkey and ducks and I enjoy being on the water chasing redfish. I got pretty good with golf and just lost interest. I may put my decoys away and never use them one day. What I will never do is belittle others that want to hunt in a legal fashion and brag about how I hunt old school and if you don't you are somehow less than me. And if I ever do, can y'all line up and smack me around a bit.
This is a good thread and I will take my answers off the air. ;)
This is why i ride my horse 16 miles one way to hunt and 16 miles back...i just leave my truck at home... Hunting over the years has changed i don't care what you think...from new type shotguns , shells , calls and camo.. So for people to say will i still hunt old school for turkeys YOUR just lying to yourself's.. Just because you don't hunt out of a blind use decoys or trail cam. still doesn't make you a old school hunter... I can remember we didn't even know what a turkey vest was, because we didn't have them or these new type turkey guns with special turkey chokes...So if you leave home in your 20000 - 40000 dollar truck with air -cond heading out turkey hunting your not old school in my book... my first old truck had roll down windows for air-cond and 6 cylinder motor that i turkey hunted with a 3 speed... my shotgun was a old browning and my calls were homemade snuff cans with a piece of rubber condom.. So in my opinion you don't know what old school is until you have walk in my shoes.. We hunted turkeys back in those days to help fill the freezer with meat to have food to eat along with deer and fish.... I hate to see people say well i HUNT TURKEYS OLD SCHOOL GIVE THIS OLD MAN A BREAK>>>> YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT OLD SCHOOL IS THIS DAY AND TIME... WE PICK COTTON ALL DAY MAKING OR GETTING PAID 3 CENTS A POUND>> SO let's enjoy all these new hunting equipment and hunt the way you want...
I don't think choke tubes or heavier than lead shot is in the same category as the others(if you keep shots under 40 yards that is). Cameras ,bait,electronic calls etc. are tools of lazy hunters period. For all those that cry and get upset when someone gives there opinion on what is cheating,1 question can you consistently kill gobblers without the use of decoys,bait, roost shooting,popup blinds game cameras etc. if the answer is yes then why waste the time and money if you could just as easily do it without them?I'm guessing most would answer no and that is the reason for the hurt feelings.And yes if another hunter can kill gobblers every season with nothing but a few calls and a shotgun and you have to have a trailer load of junk to kill one every other year then yes that hunter is better than you period.If I met another hunter that kills his limit every year with a homemade longbow hand made arrows and no blind or camouflage It would be stupid for me to try and convince him I'm as good at turkey hunting as he is.If you make everything easy how do you know when your good at anything?
No to hearing devices , no to htl ( not against it just not interested), electronic calls no takes the skill out of learning. Don't mind decoys though only I've only used it to kill 2 birds but enjoyed seeing the interaction. I enjoy the one on one with a bird and feeling like I earn them. On the other hand.... Electronic calls for predators have at it! That's killing not hunting to me an ID like predators wiped out. And I'll use any kind of technology based gps tracking system to find my bear and coon hounds but then again I don't hardly ever shoot then I'd just assume to "jump em stump um tree um and free um" an let them go to chase again. But truthfully idc how ppl hunt. My grandpa said if u spend your time minding your own business you won't have anytime to mind anyone else's.
Bearhunter, your granpa sounds like a wise man.
At what point is more about the gadgets and aids and less about the chase? Do we run the risk of becoming too efficient--taking the challenge out of the pursuit? Where's that tipping point?
My line would be no electronic decoys or electronic calls. The e callers are illegal here anyway, but I wouldn't use them if there were legal.
I sometimes using hearing amplification due to hearing loss. I use it to help locate and put 'em away when I get close enough to hear one on my own.
No problem with HTL loads, but cameras for scouting seems unnecessary to me. Not wrong, just really not needed. We're not trying to judge antlers in the turkey woods.
I won't hunt over a feeder.
Thank you if the second part of the post was to me, it's all about the chase. I let a bird walk Monday because we lit off the limb in gun range after me tree calling twice. Thought we was most likely a 2 year old an I want the boss on the farm I'm hunting.with the dogs : if I didn't have to worry about them getting onto landowners that throw fits the tracking collars wouldn't be AS important. I love making puppies an a good chase is all that we yearn for the sound of the hound not the thrill of the kill
No to e calls
I don't have an issue with modern shotgun and shotshell technology as it makes us more efficient from 40 and in. The same goes for optics. The worst possible outcome from pulling the trigger (short of hitting a person) is wounding and losing a bird. Shotgunning is a game of probability every time you pull the trigger.
I'm not a big fan of decoys and certainly would not support anything that runs on batteries. I don't feel terribly strong about it otherwise.
Trail cams don't tell you a whole lot without bait. I'm opposed to any feeding preseason or otherwise. I know several hunters that need it to consistently kill on opening day.
I'm torn listening devices, simply because most of them are actually hearing protection devices. While I don't think we should stack the deck any more in our favor, turkey hunting would be a whole lot less less fun if i can't hear them at a distance.
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Quote from: Spurs Up on May 05, 2017, 08:35:28 PM
Great reply Catman! Do you think cameras give you any advantage. Seems like they've made me more efficient... good mention of drones too!
I don't know I've never used cameras for turkeys, just to see what kind of deer use the area. Drones are more of a novelty and probably not realistic (or legal in some states).
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For me it's about camo, a shotgun and shells. I have used a single hen decoy from time to time but I am not convinced that it helps as much as it can hurt. I think HTL can be a great tool but is often abused. Game cameras and bait are a no go. So is roost shooting electronic calls, strutter/jake decoys and blinds. Investing effort and skill into a successful hunt is what I prefer and I want to earn it.
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Technological advances are sure to continue and, in an entrepreneurial spirit will be adopted and applied to hunting. If you doubt that, just think about turkey hunting today versus a short 20 to 30+ years ago. Some of that change has made it easier and easier to get into turkey hunting and to enjoy success. Will you support that continued progression if it ultimately means more limited hunting opportunities (for example, shorter seasons and fewer available tags)?
I completely agree with the original poster about the technological advances and the advantages that many hunters are choosing to take just to get a bird killed. Most hunters now are all about the kill and would take any legal advantage/aid or whatever you want to call it to kill a bird, LOL.
All I take is a shotgun, lead shotshells (no copper/nickel), turkey calls, camouflage. I don't believe in blinds/decoys/fans/food plots/rifles/feeders (baiting I assume is illegal in all states anyway, not to say it doesn't happen because it does) I personally do not rely on technological gadgets to kill my birds; I don't need them but I know there are many that do. On the other hand you got a lot of good turkey hunters that choose to hunt the same way I do. I believe that is how turkeys were intended to be hunted when this sport started back in the day to preserve fair chase conditions and for the conservation of the wild turkey. Things have sure changed but I will never change where I draw the line. I would quit turkey hunting before I had to resort to taking an unfair advantage. So no, I am not a fan of the way the sport has been made easier thru unfair tactics and technological advances so that the masses can have quick success without ever learning how to turkey hunt. Kind of like a participation trophy for all?
You take decoys/fans for example, take the wild right out of the wild turkey.
Blinds, let you move undetected and protect you from the elements. This defeats the turkeys sight advantage and is unfair. Also, the turkey does not have a blind to crawl in when the weather is not suitable. Why should the hunter? If you going to call yourself a hunter you should have to brave the elements just the same as a turkey does. And No I personally still will not use bug dope, as I know of at least one inquiring mind that wants to know. This is where I draw my own lines as far as fair chase conditions, I realize others will have different opinions. When I fool him, my bird is earned not bought.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 06, 2017, 08:04:21 AM
...If you going to call yourself a hunter you should have to brave the elements just the same as a turkey does...
I agree. This is why I hunt naked, wearing only the feathers the good Lord gave me.
Great idea. Makes it easier for you to try Tony McCleb's secret when needed.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 06, 2017, 08:47:54 AM
Great idea. Makes it easier for you to try Tony McCleb's secret when needed.
Nah, the Indians cheated by wearing buckskins. Turkeys don't get to wear buckskins.
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 06, 2017, 08:37:22 AM
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 06, 2017, 08:04:21 AM
...If you going to call yourself a hunter you should have to brave the elements just the same as a turkey does...
I agree. This is why I hunt naked, wearing only the feathers the good Lord gave me.
LOL
I'm a low technology guy too. I climb trees and cluck on a wing bone, when the birds walk under me I fall on them from above and crush them with a jelly belly flop.
For you technology haters, the shotgun/shells/etc stuff you're using, they are all new technology.
Turkey hunting and archery, I feel I'm superior to you because I think I use less new stuff.
I assume you low tech guys walk everywhere too? I think these new fangled automobiles is for sissys.
NO on electric calls. NO on bait/feeders. Not big on blinds or decoys but will use on occasion especially with my boys. Have nothing against anybody using anything they want if it's legal. It's not really up to me to judge what you view as ethical . Do use cameras to get a general idea of where birds are on a property. Once I get birds on camera consistently it's all boot work after that figuring out where they're going or coming from. I've found myself going to a minimum approach to hunting so I'm ready to grab and go anytime, anywhere; not having to worrying about grabbing 100 lbs of extra gear to hunt. Got tired of feeling like a SherPA climbing everest with all my must have "technology ". Bottom line is do what makes YOU happy.
Yea cause they didn't have any camouflage or shotguns or automobiles back when Spring Turkey Hunting started. Oh wait they did.
So when you guys who are bringing up stupid stuff like automobiles, clothing, use of a shotgun you are comparing apples to oranges. For a fair comparison, look at what was available when the sport started versus what is available now from a standpoint of technology and crutches used to kill a bird.
Look what was available to any consumer years and years ago. For goodness sake there's more of everything. There's more deer hunting stuff, duck hunting stuff, etc. Of course they're crutches now too. Didn't Indians use the skins of other animals to get close to the animals they were trying to kill? If only Indians knew how to hunt they wouldn't have had to do that.
I guess that's where we are different, I don't look at hunting as a sport, I look at it as hunting. I go to the woods at try to kill what I'm after because that's how you hunt. I follow the game laws and I won't take bad shots but if something gives me a legal advantage I'll try it. I get limited time in the woods and I try to make the most of it.
We were merely pointing out that you were complaining about the use technology but you do use technology. So let's say all this new fangled turkey hunt ruining stuff was around when spring season started, old timers wouldn't have jumped on board? I think the answer is yes because they got limited time in the woods and they wanted to kill things too.
Just to get it out there
Have I ever hunted from a blind, no
Have I ever killed a bird over decoys, yes my first bird. After that I've not even carried one
Have I ever killed a bird at a range lead shot wouldn't kill one, no
Have I ever ran cameras for turkey hunting, no
I hunt with a vest, 2 slates, 2 mouth calls and a pocket full of shells.
The difference is I'm not going to bash someone that uses a legal means of hunting. They are using the tools that are available to them to legally kill things. Now if they are doing it illegally then they are a poaching POS and they need to be in jail.
I'm not into bashing another s methods of legally hunting. Blinds can be a great tool to introduce young ones to the thrill, especially if it is raining. Decoys can take the birds attention of your little guy who can't sit still.
That being said, I feel there is nothing more satisfying than calling a gobbler into range with nothing but a mouth call. He is searching out you specifically, and it is a very deep connection to the outdoor world.
I am not bashing anyone, everyone hunts by their own rules. Everyone has their own opinion of what is fair chase and what is not. I am not looking for a tool/aid to make the sport less challenging or increase my chance for success. I don't need to take the wild out of the wild turkey and make him into a different animal in order to kill him. I like to call birds in not decoy them in. I know how to sit still and use what cover is available in nature so I don't need a blind to kill turkeys. I don't need anything more than what I stated above to kill my birds, never have. Thats all the old timers had available when the sport started and thats all they needed. There are plenty others on and off this board who feel the same way and hunt the same way. You can bash me all you want for my minority opinion. The OP raised some very good points and some serious questions about the way technology has made the sport easier and where it is headed. I gave my opinion just like everyone else about where I personally draw the line and acknowledged that others will disagree. Most people will always take the easy road, but not all. I came up hunting old school and will continue to. If they didn't need it back then and I didn't need it when I started then I sure don't need it now. If you learn how to turkey hunt you don't need all that stuff. Everyone now wants that quick, easy road to success. This new breed of hunter can't be bothered with learning how to turkey hunt . They rely on these tools/aids/gimmicks that are popular on these hunting shows. Spring turkey hunting is about calling the bird to you.
I know how you feel. I prefer to bash people old school by using newspaper articles and snail mail. Email, Internet forums, and social media take the sport out of it. It's cheating.
I apologize on behalf of all the old school hunters who hunt without blinds/decoys/visual aids/modern technology. Clearly some are offended by our traditional hunting method of just calling the bird to us.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 06, 2017, 01:40:15 PM
...Clearly some are offended by our traditional hunting method of just calling the bird to us.
Nah, I don't think anybody's offended by that.
Pretty sure no one has a problem with calling birds into range.
Old school sitting there calling a bird into range, tricking him into range with sound, good, mighty hunter.
Using a decoy, tricking a bird into range visually, bad, gimmicky cheater face.
I think the point being missed by some, is that some of us do not have egos so large that we need to compare ourselves to other hunters. We are not saying because we kill turkeys we are somehow better hunters, more old school, more deserving or more respectful of the game we are pursuing (like the game gives two flying ****s). We hunt for our own reasons and for our own joy.
Phillip said if I use a decoy, I am not as good a hunter as Joe Blow that does not. Who cares? I do not care what Joe Blow thinks of me and frankly, anyone that hunts for the sake of being better than other hunters is beneath my consideration. I have met lots of guys I consider better turkey hunters than me. They put in the effort and they get the reward. The ones I respect don't need to tell me how good they are. One of those guys calls me for duck hunting advice, because I have hunted ducks longer than him.
Maybe some folks have very little in their lives to be proud of and so it is all put on how good of a turkey hunter they are - not for themselves, but to belittle and judge others. Have at it. I have many hobbies and turkey hunting is one of them. I love it. But I love it for me, not to brag to others. The only people I show pictures of dead turkeys are my friends and family and most of them know that means they are going to be eating it.
When they shovel dirt in my face, how I rank compared to other turkey hunters will not be important to anyone, least of all me.
And Stink, you are one funny cat. I getcha!
I rely solely on calling. if I don't get the bird into range on my terms, I don't shoot. ive let alot of birds walk off over the years because of this. but, it forced me to learn calling strategy for all phases of the season. I think in the long run ive killed far more turkeys by learning to call them than I would have if I had shot every turkey that I had in range otherwise.
I started hunting turkey's 53 years ago. Other than a choke tube and new camo I still hunt them the same way.
If it is legal I have no problem with it. Just not for me.
Regards
Turk
Quote from: g8rvet on May 06, 2017, 04:02:01 PM
I think the point being missed by some, is that some of us do not have egos so large that we need to compare ourselves to other hunters. We are not saying because we kill turkeys we are somehow better hunters, more old school, more deserving or more respectful of the game we are pursuing (like the game gives two flying ****s). We hunt for our own reasons and for our own joy.
Phillip said if I use a decoy, I am not as good a hunter as Joe Blow that does not. Who cares? I do not care what Joe Blow thinks of me and frankly, anyone that hunts for the sake of being better than other hunters is beneath my consideration. I have met lots of guys I consider better turkey hunters than me. They put in the effort and they get the reward. The ones I respect don't need to tell me how good they are. One of those guys calls me for duck hunting advice, because I have hunted ducks longer than him.
Maybe some folks have very little in their lives to be proud of and so it is all put on how good of a turkey hunter they are - not for themselves, but to belittle and judge others. Have at it. I have many hobbies and turkey hunting is one of them. I love it. But I love it for me, not to brag to others. The only people I show pictures of dead turkeys are my friends and family and most of them know that means they are going to be eating it.
When they shovel dirt in my face, how I rank compared to other turkey hunters will not be important to anyone, least of all me.
Its your right as an American to be mediocre enjoy lol.
Quote from: Phillipshunt on May 06, 2017, 07:24:23 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on May 06, 2017, 04:02:01 PM
I think the point being missed by some, is that some of us do not have egos so large that we need to compare ourselves to other hunters. We are not saying because we kill turkeys we are somehow better hunters, more old school, more deserving or more respectful of the game we are pursuing (like the game gives two flying ****s). We hunt for our own reasons and for our own joy.
Phillip said if I use a decoy, I am not as good a hunter as Joe Blow that does not. Who cares? I do not care what Joe Blow thinks of me and frankly, anyone that hunts for the sake of being better than other hunters is beneath my consideration. I have met lots of guys I consider better turkey hunters than me. They put in the effort and they get the reward. The ones I respect don't need to tell me how good they are. One of those guys calls me for duck hunting advice, because I have hunted ducks longer than him.
Maybe some folks have very little in their lives to be proud of and so it is all put on how good of a turkey hunter they are - not for themselves, but to belittle and judge others. Have at it. I have many hobbies and turkey hunting is one of them. I love it. But I love it for me, not to brag to others. The only people I show pictures of dead turkeys are my friends and family and most of them know that means they are going to be eating it.
When they shovel dirt in my face, how I rank compared to other turkey hunters will not be important to anyone, least of all me.
Its your right as an American to be mediocre enjoy lol.
The fact that you called me "mediocre" is exactly what my point was, which obviously sailed right over your mediocre intelligence. Who the heck are you that you think you can decide because I use a decoy when I field hunt, I am a mediocre hunter? No worries, as since I have no respect for you, your opinion of me is meaningless (not saying you are unworthy or respect, you may well be, but I don't know you). I kill my share of birds in the woods too, sans decoy. You know absolutely nothing about me. And it is also your right to be a condescending d***. (look it up, you probably do not know what it means).
Some of you are pure tools. And I am not offended by someone that wants to hunt their way. But if you want to tell me how to hunt, you can kiss my north end when I am headed south.
And about a 90% chance if I don't know you Warrent, I know who you run with. But I use the same name on all the forums.
Is this appropriate to the subject? https://allaboutshooting.com/blogs/blog/communication
Thanks,
Clark
When I go to the woods I take two mouth calls, a slate, wear my camo (the new fangled kind) and a gun. I don't own a decoy, a blind, a trail cam, an atv, a feeder or anything else you may think of. I don't own any of this stuff because I'm too darn cheap to buy it and too lazy to carry it. I move a lot and don't like being slowed down with stuff. Yeah I'm old school and done this for 45 years. I am not a purest and don't have any desire to judge anyone else, I hunt the way I enjoy and am legal. If a gobbler makes a mistake and get in range of my gun he is dieing, period. If there is one thing I would draw a line on and call anyone out on, it is baiting. As a Christian man I will not say what my heart would like to say about anyone who baits turkeys. Everything else that is legal is personal choice, go and enjoy the great outdoors filled with lots of gobbling.
Yes, the article is appropriate to the subject and the content is spot on. Having said that I am less than optimistic that it will change anyone's opinion. The people that get it already get it and the ones that don't probably never will. They do not have the same mentality.
Agree with that article. Very good stuff. The key difference is all in presentation of the material. His points are valid and his argument well made. Not much you can really argue with.
[No apologizes needed. Piss on them. I enjoy offending those that I deem need offending. ;)
[/quote]
Could not agree more Piss on g8rvrt lol
You are a: lol
Well written article. I agree on all your points.
Quote from: allaboutshooting on May 06, 2017, 08:07:59 PM
Is this appropriate to the subject? https://allaboutshooting.com/blogs/blog/communication
Thanks,
Clark
I don't use trail cameras for turkeys but will certainly employ them for deer. I'd like to know what's in the area. If the big bucks aren't in the area yet, no sense in me going after them and stinking the place up before they want to get there. Drones are a "no fly" zone for me all together.
HTL, all for it. Don't care if it's fed HW's, Hevishot or TSS. Like it all. But then again, I'm not super picky about the gun in use either.
Decoys, I've got them. Don't use them as much these days but certainly plan to tomorrow. Motion decoys don't really get my blood pressure up but I won't own one. Have a strutter. Haven't used it but twice. Both times had negative effects.
There's enough crop around here that baiting would be fruitless. Why give birds food when they've got more than they could possibly eat already. Not saying I've never baited deer but I don't even do that anymore for the same reasons.
Having said all this, if someone else wants to, I don't particularly care. What's fine by one may not be for another and it's not my job to pass judgement.
very good article Clark
:emoticon-cartoon-012:
Quote from: allaboutshooting on May 06, 2017, 08:07:59 PM
Is this appropriate to the subject? https://allaboutshooting.com/blogs/blog/communication
Thanks,
Clark
That's a good article, but haven't hunting accidents actually decreased since the good old days? I can't find nationwide statistics specific to turkey hunting, but the counts in many states are lower, while the number of turkey hunters have increased.
All i'm going to add to this post is over 75 percent of you on this forum don't know what old school turkey hunting is this day and time... If you carry anything that new like shotguns, shells, calls and camo in no way are you old school... back in my first days of hunting we had no camo, guns with chokes, calls or a turkey vest..almost all our hunting equipment was either hand-me -downs and a old single barrel shotgun that belong to either your grand parents or you dad we made our turkey calls...we didn't have these nice coveralls and insulated boots.... So for some of you to say i hunt turkeys old school give this old man a break--- you don't know what old school WAS...i sure enjoy this new turkey hunting items and equipment a lot better than the old days that's for sure....
Quote from: Greg Massey on May 06, 2017, 10:58:11 PM
All i'm going to add to this post is over 75 percent of you on this forum don't know what old school turkey hunting is this day and time... If you carry anything that new like shotguns , calls and camo in no way are you old school... back in my first days of hunting we had no camo, guns with chokes, calls or a turkey vest..almost all our hunting equipment was either hand-me -downs and a old single barrel shotgun that belong to either your grand parents or you dad...we didn't have these nice coveralls and insulated boots.... So for some of you to say i hunt turkeys old school give this old man a break--- you don't know what old school WAS...i sure enjoy this new turkey hunting items and equipment a lot better than the old days that's for sure....
True. And most places didn't have any turkeys to hunt, anyway.
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 06, 2017, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: Greg Massey on May 06, 2017, 10:58:11 PM
All i'm going to add to this post is over 75 percent of you on this forum don't know what old school turkey hunting is this day and time... If you carry anything that new like shotguns , calls and camo in no way are you old school... back in my first days of hunting we had no camo, guns with chokes, calls or a turkey vest..almost all our hunting equipment was either hand-me -downs and a old single barrel shotgun that belong to either your grand parents or you dad...we didn't have these nice coveralls and insulated boots.... So for some of you to say i hunt turkeys old school give this old man a break--- you don't know what old school WAS...i sure enjoy this new turkey hunting items and equipment a lot better than the old days that's for sure....
True. And most places didn't have any turkeys to hunt, anyway.
x2 ...no they didn't...you were lucky to hear one gobbler a season and see a single hen....
I'm 64 and the older I get the more I hunt with this saying, "Keep It Simple Stupid".
I still have "Be Safe" stickers and had to go out of state to hunt my first Spring turkey season. Come to think of it,I killed my 1st gobbler on the second day of my hunt without decoys. I must have been a "real hunter" back then. I'm not worthy now.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
What I don't get is the way guys view things. I'm personally on board w ya. Gotta keep the hunt in the hunt n technology isn't doing that. My prob is take the baiting, I find it unsportsmanlike as well as many for deer, waterfowl. Why is it ok for deer in many eyes?
The cameras means no need to scout by being there. Absolutely absurd n imo who's actually not want to be there preseason to hear the first gobbles, see new flocks of greenheads arriving, see the deer entering an alfalfa field before the season. Guess I'm old school but hunting for me involved personal involvement n effort n that effort doesn't involve carrying cameras n bait.
Some of the new loads n chokes I have no prob w as long as people don't assume they're supernatural n feel the need to test the limits. Sport hunting is about making your hunt sporting
Wasn't this thread started about what you thought of different hunting aides and not a debate of who's doing it "oldschool" or what is honorable turkey hunting. The fact is it's all personal preference and the greatest thing about turkey hunting is chasing and outsmarting turkeys, that's it! why does it matter How I do it and how some other person does it, if both are legal, safe and enjoying their hunt yeah for both. Every generation has it old schoolers, it's called time and time passes and things change. Not all old school is good. It was the old schooler's who hunted game to near extirpation with market hunting, baiting, punt guns and total disregard for the resource. So before we puff ourselves up over how we hunt let's give thanks that we have a well managed resource to enjoy. To the Indians the pioneers were the new crazy guys that were breaking the old school rules and so on through time. Things change. So go hunting and enjoy the privilege. I personally do not use all the new toys, but I enjoy the better clothing, new guns and calls. Yes I hunted when season was three days long (started in 1971) and you only heard one bird a season, but I like it a whole lot better now with all the opportunity we have today. I vote to never go back to the days of "oldschool".
Quote from: eggshell on May 07, 2017, 08:49:10 AM
Wasn't this thread started about what you thought of different hunting aides and not a debate of who's doing it "oldschool" or what is honorable turkey hunting. The fact is it's all personal preference and the greatest thing about turkey hunting is chasing and outsmarting turkeys, that's it! why does it matter How I do it and how some other person does it, if both are legal, safe and enjoying their hunt yeah for both. Every generation has it old schoolers, it's called time and time passes and things change. Not all old school is good. It was the old schooler's who hunted game to near extirpation with market hunting, baiting, punt guns and total disregard for the resource. So before we puff ourselves up over how we hunt let's give thanks that we have a well managed resource to enjoy. To the Indians the pioneers were the new crazy guys that were breaking the old school rules and so on through time. Things change. So go hunting and enjoy the privilege. I personally do not use all the new toys, but I enjoy the better clothing, new guns and calls. Yes I hunted when season was three days long (started in 1971) and you only heard one bird a season, but I like it a whole lot better now with all the opportunity we have today. I vote to never go back to the days of "oldschool".
With all due respect I think you're mistaken as you're quoting maket hunting n not sport hunting. The sport hunters are the ones who asked for some regulation.
Now the old school thing is being taken by each persons personal experience n age. Greg may be more mature than some it seems n he spoke of old school differently than others including myself.
My take on this is keeping yourself in the hunt. If you take Gregs way of using non camo clothing which actually works, non turkey choked guns, so on n so on n applied this today by using the chokes n camo you're essentially hunting very similar if you're keeping your shots close.
Imo and it's only imo as soon as you add technology into the hunt in order to makes things easier or so you can hunt n not really need to be checking the happenings in the woods that this deviates.
And some of your points were spot on
For all those that like to use all the gadgets that the "LAWS" allow,more power to them. And this is just "MY" feelings and opinion. But my opinion is that they are missing out on what truly is turkey hunting. And that is,carrying on a conversation with a wild bird and calling it in to 30 yds or less,without the use of any other gadgets other than your calls. It took me three years to kill my first bird and I've killed one every year after that. No decoys,no blinds,no bushwhacking. Just my camo and my calls. After my twelfth or so gobbler,I retired the shotgun for a bow or muzzle loader. My muzzle loader is a CVA percussion and the birds have to be even closer than when I used a bow. 23yds is the max range for this gun. Two years ago,I retired from hunting for myself. I now just take others out to show and teach what a great and exciting experience it is to carry on a conversation with a gobbler and to have him at 30 yds or less!
I guess I'm in the middle of the road on this one. When I go into the woods, I USUALLY don't carry decoys. I own several and will use them from time to time. For me personally, they're about 50/50 in being effective, plus I don't like carrying them. I do not use game cameras, electronic calls, or drones. For the record, I'm not against cameras, I just don't see the need for them. I prefer calling, but will on occasion, sneak around on one in a field. Some don't like it, and that's fine, but I'd dare to say that its harder to do than calling one into shooting range. I don't fan because I just choose not to. I do like my thermocell, and if that's cheating, so be it. As for blinds. In the right situation, they're great. Some use them all the time, just not for me. I'd rather be sitting against a tree. And this is where my problem with hunting in general starts. When I started, I followed my dad everywhere chasing turkeys. I learned most of what I know in those years, and they're lessons I'll never forget. Not many teens hunted, as it was a poor boys sport. Now it seems like everyone hunts. Which isn't totally bad, but things have changed. Land leased every where, and not a lot left over for every one else. If I had thousands of acres to hunt all to myself, I'd tag out the first week. Try hunting public land, or small tracts of private that everyone else can hunt to. I see youtube videos all the time (local). Someone's rich dad owns half the county, never hunted, holding a gobbler. Newest Under Armour, $1200 gun, etc. Shooting a turkey out of a blind over $500 worth of decoys. As stated before, I have nothing against decoys or blinds. I use them myself from time to time. But lets be honest, just about anyone can kill a turkey like that. I've done it myself. I just don't think it teaches turkey hunting. It's fine to get the first bird that way, or to do if calling isn't an option, just not all the time.
And technology. Hunting in general has gotten way to gadgety to for me. I know I don't have to use everything they sell, but its getting pretty bad. I was in Bass Pro yesterday. My wife says hey, look at this, Scent Away hand sanitizer! Really? 2 sided strutting decoys with different colored heads on both sides? An umbrella sized fanning decoy? I guess as long as people keep buying it they'll keep selling it. I think it all started with "forget the wind and just hunt". That's just my opinions, and I know everyone won't agree.
Yes, thats my point. Anyone can kill a turkey like that. Thats not really turkey hunting, thats turkey killing. And like you said, they will never really learn to turkey hunt. JMO
Quote from: eggshell on May 07, 2017, 08:49:10 AM
Wasn't this thread started about what you thought of different hunting aides and not a debate of who's doing it "oldschool" or what is honorable turkey hunting. "
Yes it was. Sort of...
I tried to moderate the discussion and re-direct when it quickly degenerated into the same ole personal preference, urinary contest. But, soon gave up.
I'll try again. Do you think some of the recently emerged technology and innovations have given any advantage to hunters? Good, bad or indifferent... What else is likely to be developed and possibly adopted by turkey hunters? Someone mentioned use of drones. How about other remote sensing technologies? What if one day soon thermal imaging advances to the point that it can distinguish a gobbler from a goose and becomes affordable? Would you use it? Would you care if others used it?
Again, when is enough enough? Will we one day soon have to draw the line?
I use cameras year round at the club I'm in and a small private spot of land. For scouting and for poachers. I can't drive 140 miles everyday to look and listen. It helps me keep up with what's there. Whether it is yote's, hog's or hat's trespassing. Mechanical calling and remote controlled decoys should not be allowed. Mechanical calling is illegal here. I know a guy that use's a (CALLING MACHINE). I would turn him in if I ever caught him in the woods with it. Drone's definitely should not be used.
Sir, I'm not sure what you mean by will be have to draw the line? The majority of the guys on this forum will do anything legal to get that kill. It's all about the kill to them. So, the state is the only ones who can regulate them. They have no self regulation whatsoever. From most of their attitudes, they would hunt over a pile of corn with 6 funky chickens and a B-Mobile with a couple DSD hens using an electronic caller while they crawled behind a strutter with a real fan on him if it were legal. After all, they just have to get that kill by any means necessary.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 07, 2017, 11:58:07 AM
...The majority of the guys on this forum will do anything legal to get that kill. It's all about the kill to them...After all, they just have to get that kill by any means necessary.
I know, right? Shame on the majority of the guys on this forum!
Motorized decoys and electric calling , drones and thermal imagery should all be illegal.
Blinds and decoys have been used since the 1970's. Of course not as many or as good as what we have today. From an old book, not sure which one ?Old pro turkey hunter? Building a portable blind instruction were included. I have also seen decoys that were plywood painted by hand as far back as the 70's.
Now the 3 1/2" 12 gauge was a huge improvement on turkey killing as distance was greatly improved and 30 -40 yards away was not the limit any more.
Turkey hunting just got turned into turkey shooting. Many were killed at 50-60.
Longbeard loads just increased or reinforced those limits and added a few yards. This to me is where it needed to be stopped.
As far as the old school, these guns and loads are not at all an old school methodology .
You don't have to work a turkey close to the gun . Which used to be the biggest challenge.
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 07, 2017, 12:03:10 PM
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 07, 2017, 11:58:07 AM
...The majority of the guys on this forum will do anything legal to get that kill. It's all about the kill to them...After all, they just have to get that kill by any means necessary.
I know, right? Shame on the majority of the guys on this forum!
Dadgum law followers. :z-dizzy:
One thing the cry baby do anything for a kill plugs do not understand.If decoys fanning blinds etc. were not available or legal it would reduce hunter numbers by 70% if not more. People are unbelievably lazy and would not attempt to hunt without several crutches of some sort. There would be plenty of public land without fat sweaty people breathing from there mouth and blowing crow calls 45 min. before daylite . If I never had to see another 30lb over weight hunter with man boobs trying to carry 4 decoys a blind 2 chairs and a turkey fan to go sit 100 yards off a road and squawk on a box call for an hour straight I'd be thrilled. But sadly this will never be the plugs out number us by a large amount so much so that they have convinced themselves that what thy do is hunting and its OK for men to have boobs lol. For the record its not OK.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 07, 2017, 11:58:07 AM
Sir, I'm not sure what you mean by will be have to draw the line? The majority of the guys on this forum will do anything legal to get that kill. It's all about the kill to them. So, the state is the only ones who can regulate them. They have no self regulation whatsoever. From most of their attitudes, they would hunt over a pile of corn with 6 funky chickens and a B-Mobile with a couple DSD hens using an electronic caller while they crawled behind a strutter with a real fan on him if it were legal. After all, they just have to get that kill by any means necessary.
Id disagree that the majority of guys on this forum would do anything. I don't hear anyone bragging about bait or roost shooting though some actually may. I believe the guys on this forum are pretty ethical n sportsmanlike for the most part. It's just splitting hairs on what's right/ wrong if that makes sense.
I'd bet most guys outside this forum prob do use any legal method and some that are but they don't bleed turkey hunting if that makes sense. Part of the reason so many guys here are stand up imo is the age bracket. Lots of experience n they're looking to do things their way n have it challenging. No pride in using methods they personally don't approve of. It's part of the evolution of a hunter. The personal challenge phrases
Quote from: Phillipshunt on May 07, 2017, 01:18:47 PM
One thing the cry baby do anything for a kill plugs do not understand.If decoys fanning blinds etc. were not available or legal it would reduce hunter numbers by 70% if not more. People are unbelievably lazy and would not attempt to hunt without several crutches of some sort. There would be plenty of public land without fat sweaty people breathing from there mouth and blowing crow calls 45 min. before daylite . If I never had to see another 30lb over weight hunter with man boobs trying to carry 4 decoys a blind 2 chairs and a turkey fan to go sit 100 yards off a road and squawk on a box call for an hour straight I'd be thrilled. But sadly this will never be the plugs out number us by a large amount so much so that they have convinced themselves that what thy do is hunting and its OK for men to have boobs lol. For the record its not OK.
Phillipshunts I agree w your comment if things were harder there'd be less hunters. This is why the game depts allow some of this. Money makes the world go round n license sales are money.
Mentor some folks in the ways you feel are correct.
Now I've never said anything to you so don't take me wrong. I've seen others bash you after you've bashed others. Trust me I'm no out of shape crybaby nor a bleeding heart so I'm saying this man to man. No need to attack people n I believe the attacks on you may stop if you considered your delivery.
Well, I would like to thing you are right. But I'm not so sure anymore, hunters attitudes have changed so much now with this new breed of hunter. You don't hear about shooting over bait because it's not legal, if it were legal many would do it whether or not they tell about it in a forum. Same with roost shooting, not legal in many states but if it were many would do it, probably wouldn't tell about it in a forum. Let's not be delusional here, whatever the state allows will be employed by the majority of turkey hunters out there now. If it's legal, they will justify it as being okay and an acceptable practice, most of them anyway. You have to understand the kill is more important than the hunt to this new breed of hunter. Don't deceive yourself into thinking that these hunters are going to somehow reject advances in technology because it makes the sport to easy or less challenging. You have to understand that they want and need it easy in order to have a chance for success. They depend on their tools, crutches, aids whatever you call them to get their birds. The more the law will allow, the more they will employ.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 07, 2017, 01:39:28 PM
Well, I would like to thing you are right. But I'm not so sure anymore, hunters attitudes have changed so much now with this new breed of hunter. You don't hear about shooting over bait because it's not legal, if it were legal many would do it whether or not they tell about it in a forum. Same with roost shooting, not legal in many states but if it were many would do it, probably wouldn't tell about it in a forum. Let's not be delusional here, whatever the state allows will be employed by the majority of turkey hunters out there now. If it's legal, they will justify it as being okay and an acceptable practice, most of them anyway. You have to understand the kill is more important than the hunt to this new breed of hunter. Don't deceive yourself into thinking that these hunters are going to somehow reject advances in technology because it makes the sport to easy or less challenging. You have to understand that they want and need it easy in order to have a chance for success. They depend on their tools, crutches, aids whatever you call them to get their birds. The more the law will allow, the more they will employ.
You are very correct but I referred to the evolution of hunters n the age/experience level of hunters. The evolution I'm sure you know works like this. Some hunters never fully make it through all the phases but
Step one- I need to kill/catch anything/something
Step two-I need a limit
Step 3-4 can be intertwined/interchanged, there the limiting phases, be it going for a trophy sized animal in order to challenge oneself or using tougher equipment that self imposes less chances.
It can be bows, stykbows being the most challenging. Say fly rods in fishing, smaller guns, etc etc.
now the "How many springs" thread was very impressive. Some guys have been at it a lot longer than me and I thought I was an old timer.
The age experience level is why they're in the limiting stages.
Remember some guys cheat for trophies n it makes em illegitimate. They can't succeed without cheating n I'm sure we all despise that. Following the law isn't cheating but in many eyes disrespecting the game. Hope this made sense.
Yes new breed needs instant gratification n success. Mentor some folks into being proud to earn an animal
I agree with you. You said the key word right there, earn an animal. If you start out in this sport and take the time to learn how to turkey hunt you will earn your first bird and chances are good that you will continue to earn your birds. However, if you start out and take every legal advantage you can to get a bird killed, did you earn him or was he bought with all the latest tools and technology? And when you get that instant gratification from that kill that was bought not earned, in all likelihood you will continue to buy your birds and never really earn them by learning how to turkey hunt. Everyone is going to hunt how they wish within what the law allows hopefully. However, I am not going to sit here and say that all birds are being earned as many are bought these days in my opinion.
Agreed
Which technological tool "buys" a bird? I want to know, so I can sell it and get rich.
I look forward to the day I sprout man boobs. They would give me something to do on those long sits in my blind after I got bored watching my Funky Chicken flock.
Quote from: guesswho on May 07, 2017, 03:04:31 PM
I look forward to the day I sprout man boobs. They would give me something to do on those long sits in my blind after I got bored watching my Funky Chicken flock.
I'd never leave the house.
Quote from: guesswho on May 07, 2017, 03:04:31 PM
I look forward to the day I sprout man boobs. They would give me something to do on those long sits in my blind after I got bored watching my Funky Chicken flock.
Please stay in the blind :emoticon-cartoon-012:
Quote from: Spurs Up on May 07, 2017, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: eggshell on May 07, 2017, 08:49:10 AM
Wasn't this thread started about what you thought of different hunting aides and not a debate of who's doing it "oldschool" or what is honorable turkey hunting. "
Yes it was. Sort of...
I tried to moderate the discussion and re-direct when it quickly degenerated into the same ole personal preference, urinary contest. But, soon gave up.
I'll try again. Do you think some of the recently emerged technology and innovations have given any advantage to hunters? No doubt about it. Good, bad or indifferent... What else is likely to be developed and possibly adopted by turkey hunters? Hard to say. I never would have imagined GPS technology, let alone cell phones. When I started duck hunting, we used handheld radios to talk to each other from boat to boat. We walked through places to find openings in timber and put miles and miles on our boats to find birds. I had the first mud motor in my area that I had seen. Would get stopped and asked about it on every trip. Before that we mostly paddled. Someone mentioned use of drones. How about other remote sensing technologies? What if one day soon thermal imaging advances to the point that it can distinguish a gobbler from a goose and becomes affordable? It is already there, if you could afford it. GPS was not for the public either when it started. Would you use it? For what? Would you care if others used it? Only if it affected the population or me.
Again, when is enough enough? Will we one day soon have to draw the line? Some people think we are already way past that point. Certainly there are things available that are way past that point for me. But the only people that I can instill ethics in are the people I mentor. My son and 2 nephews respect game laws, hunt with respect for the hunt itself and for others. I don't really take other turkey hunters much, but have taken a lot of duck hunters. Only a rare few get repeat invites.
Answers in the quote.
What I find ironic, is that the preachers on here are actually enforcing the "success" culture that they eschew. They say they are "better turkey hunters" and that others should strive to be like them. Without proper mentoring, new hunters (be they young or old) often think success is about the kill. Seen it time and again with deer, duck and turkey hunters over the years. These "noobs" then look at the law, say it is legal, and if I wanna be a good hunter, I have to have a picture of me holding a dead turkey to be better than other hunters. Or better yet, they video themselves and post it on social media. Where other new hunters see their "success" and if they wanna be good, they gotta kill too. In the "real" good old days, hunting was about putting food on the table with a hobby that you enjoyed, not about bragging to anyone that would listen how good you are. My great uncle thought we were insane for deer hunting. He said when he wanted deer meat, he would sit in his barn, flip on a light and harvest one with his 22LR.
It is real simple. If you want to make a difference in how people view things, you discuss it with them. A**clowns like man boob boy will never understand that due to their own ignorance and sense of self importance. So they put everyone off, even when many of their points are valid. Oldschool does that a lot too, just has not elevated it to the same art form. I have been hunting a long time and my views on things have evolved as I have matured. I learn from oldtimers and new comers to my various outdoor pursuits. Only a mouth breather has the exact same views today as they did 25 years ago, because they are too simple to do any different. Not the same ethics, the same views. Intelligent people evolve their opinions.
Does this site have an ignore button? I think I am going to look for it.
Quote from: g8rvet on May 07, 2017, 04:45:49 PM
Quote from: Spurs Up on May 07, 2017, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: eggshell on May 07, 2017, 08:49:10 AM
Wasn't this thread started about what you thought of different hunting aides and not a debate of who's doing it "oldschool" or what is honorable turkey hunting. "
Yes it was. Sort of...
I tried to moderate the discussion and re-direct when it quickly degenerated into the same ole personal preference, urinary contest. But, soon gave up.
I'll try again. Do you think some of the recently emerged technology and innovations have given any advantage to hunters? No doubt about it. Good, bad or indifferent... What else is likely to be developed and possibly adopted by turkey hunters? Hard to say. I never would have imagined GPS technology, let alone cell phones. When I started duck hunting, we used handheld radios to talk to each other from boat to boat. We walked through places to find openings in timber and put miles and miles on our boats to find birds. I had the first mud motor in my area that I had seen. Would get stopped and asked about it on every trip. Before that we mostly paddled. Someone mentioned use of drones. How about other remote sensing technologies? What if one day soon thermal imaging advances to the point that it can distinguish a gobbler from a goose and becomes affordable? It is already there, if you could afford it. GPS was not for the public either when it started. Would you use it? For what? Would you care if others used it? Only if it affected the population or me.
Again, when is enough enough? Will we one day soon have to draw the line? Some people think we are already way past that point. Certainly there are things available that are way past that point for me. But the only people that I can instill ethics in are the people I mentor. My son and 2 nephews respect game laws, hunt with respect for the hunt itself and for others. I don't really take other turkey hunters much, but have taken a lot of duck hunters. Only a rare few get repeat invites.
Answers in the quote.
Thanks for keeping this discussion focused and on a civil plane.
I admire the importance you place on mentoring. Do you think mentoring and peer pressure are enough to stem the rate of adoption of inevitable innovations that might make it easier and easier to kill a turkey? If not, what can and who should? What role should state game departments, NWTF, and manufacturers play? If you think we're past "that point" now, who is to blame?
Everyone has opinions. Seen it over and over. "If you don't do it my way, then your wrong". We get divided amongst ourselves and we leave our sport open to being destroyed from the inside out instead of by anti-hunters. I hunt legally the way I want. I don't talk much anymore about success because I like keeping it to myself. I started out learning you don't tell anything because it's not necessarily me telling someone something but it's who they will tell it to. To me hunts have become more and more intimate and I like keeping them locked away. I have been cussed out for not telling how many turkeys I have killed. I just don't understand why folks get so offended. If you want to tell me that's fine, but me not telling you doesn't mean I'm a jerk either.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mentoring is a start. Peer pressure is effective too, but not in the way it has been applied on this thread. Using insults to criticize another is the sign of a weak mind and the sign of someone losing a debate (this is no debate, because no one here will change their viewpoint and there will certainly not be a winner). When your buddy says "I got my cameras out, etc etc," wherever you draw the line, a simple raised eyebrow or a gentle "I don't hunt that way" will be 1000 times more effective.
Hunter education does make a difference in water fowling in my state. Still plenty of crazy, selfish duck hunters, but getting them young and teaching ethics may pull them back from the bad influences.
Manufacturers? None whatsoever. People vote with their wallets and capitalism is the way of our country. If people stop demanding the newer technology due to hunter education, mentoring and peer pressure, the well will dry up.
Ah, the who is to blame question. I don't know. The answers are not as simplistic as the preachers would have you think. I do know, due to multiple family members in the teaching profession (wife and daughter for starters), that today's kids think and learn totally different than my generation. As little as 10-15 years ago when my daughter was in the same school she now teaches even. Kids today are visual, fast paced learners that are easily bored. ADD and ADHD are real and although I am not sure the incidence is on the rise, the diagnosis certainly seems to be. Teaching today requires multiple media to engage the child that is bombarded with stimulation outside the classroom. And that carries over to hunting and fishing. Oldschool, with all his inane comments, has that right-younger hunters and newer hunters want video game success without the effort. But my great nephew, with his diagnosis of ADD, will be taught to hunt and fish correctly. We are already on that path. That patience is it's own reward. It ain't easy though.
I am currently teaching my previously disinterested 23 year old daughter to turkey hunt. I made her practice holding and firing the gun. I have enforced the process and made it about the hunt and not about the kill. I knew she had it in her, she is my best fishing buddy and outfishes and outcatches her older brother. I am actually glad she has not killed a bird in her first two years. I got to watch her not take a marginal shot this year on a bird and then demonstrated the same restraint by not shooting it when it was on my side with a slam dunk shot, hoping it would give her a better shot. This ethic was taught to her with a decoy out (FOR SHAME, I am a poor and pitiful sinner ::)).
My best advice is to stop bragging about your hunting skills and take new hunters out to teach them. Preaching to others is a waste of time. It will cost you birds, but the price is worth it in the long run.
QuoteI don't talk much anymore about success because I like keeping it to myself.
Guy in my town, that I don't much care for, knows I turkey hunt and was constantly bragging to me about how he had killed 5-6 birds each year (our limit is two). I got sick of it and when he asked me one day how I had been doing, I lied through my teeth. "Well, lets see, I killed 2 in Alabama, 3 in Georgia, I have one left to kill in Florida and then I will go out West and try to kill 2 more. I don't shoot over my limit but I have plenty of money to travel out of state". He has never asked me about turkey hunting again and that was 5 years ago and I see him once a week or so.
g8rvet, well put. If you want something to change teach it to those who are just learning. Most people will practice what they are taught and believe is right. You not only teach them how to kill but how to enjoy. So much of the hunt is stolen when we compromise just for a kill, but if all you have ever known is killing you believe that is what it is about. I love the hunt with all the strategy and learning about my quarry. I took a young man on his very first turkey hunt this year and I was asked what he needed before the hunt and I said, "good clothes, a gun (any gun), a license and a willingness to listen. I talked to him as we went out to hunt and he was curious if we'd be using decoys, what calls, a blind and so on. I told him I had a mouth call and that is all we needed. I sat right with him and as the woods came to life I explained everything that was happening around him. I pointed out the hens calling and what type of calling they were doing. I explained what the gobblers were doing. On our first set up hens got to the gobbler before us and I explained to him it was time to leave, that we would not be hounding that gobbler. We may return to him later, but we were leaving him at that time. I could tell he thought that meant defeat. However, down the road a half hour later we struck a gobbler ready to play. I sat right at his back and whispered instructions in his ear. When I first saw the gobbler coming in strut I told him where to look, but he could not shoot it yet. After some strutting the gobbler stuck his head up at 25 yards and I told the young man take a deep breath and make sure of your aim and kill him. He done exactly that. I made him lay the bird out and smooth out his feathers and we took a picture right where the bird fell. I handed him his empty casing and explained we don't leave things behind and it makes a neat holder for the beard. I didn't know if he thought I was a goofy old man or what, but I found out later he was texting his mom all the way home how cool it was to be on this hunt. This is how you change things not getting in red faced arguments. To me the saddest part of the hunt is picking up the dead bird, but I do enjoy eating them so it is still good. I love matching whits with the toughest old toms. I understand why some use the gadgets, but I think they are missing a lot of the experience. However, I do not judge them for it, if that is reward enough for them then well done, brother. This old world has enough problems without making a grand sport miserable. So to that guy that spends a fortune on all the new fangled stuff and is excited to go gird up his man boobs and get away from the rat race for a day afield ( or just off the road) I say "have a great hunt".
Oh and on the talking about success thing, I agree that I keep it close anymore, but occasionally an asshat will be demeaning everyone and bragging about the whole dozen birds he's killed and I'll just have to bring out the photo album..... Most everyone is grateful to have loud mouth shut up.
Quote from: g8rvet on May 07, 2017, 06:55:21 PM
Mentoring is a start. Peer pressure is effective too, but not in the way it has been applied on this thread. Using insults to criticize another is the sign of a weak mind and the sign of someone losing a debate (this is no debate, because no one here will change their viewpoint and there will certainly not be a winner). When your buddy says "I got my cameras out, etc etc," wherever you draw the line, a simple raised eyebrow or a gentle "I don't hunt that way" will be 1000 times more effective.
Hunter education does make a difference in water fowling in my state. Still plenty of crazy, selfish duck hunters, but getting them young and teaching ethics may pull them back from the bad influences.
Manufacturers? None whatsoever. People vote with their wallets and capitalism is the way of our country. If people stop demanding the newer technology due to hunter education, mentoring and peer pressure, the well will dry up.
Ah, the who is to blame question. I don't know. The answers are not as simplistic as the preachers would have you think. I do know, due to multiple family members in the teaching profession (wife and daughter for starters), that today's kids think and learn totally different than my generation. As little as 10-15 years ago when my daughter was in the same school she now teaches even. Kids today are visual, fast paced learners that are easily bored. ADD and ADHD are real and although I am not sure the incidence is on the rise, the diagnosis certainly seems to be. Teaching today requires multiple media to engage the child that is bombarded with stimulation outside the classroom. And that carries over to hunting and fishing. Oldschool, with all his inane comments, has that right-younger hunters and newer hunters want video game success without the effort. But my great nephew, with his diagnosis of ADD, will be taught to hunt and fish correctly. We are already on that path. That patience is it's own reward. It ain't easy though.
I am currently teaching my previously disinterested 23 year old daughter to turkey hunt. I made her practice holding and firing the gun. I have enforced the process and made it about the hunt and not about the kill. I knew she had it in her, she is my best fishing buddy and outfishes and outcatches her older brother. I am actually glad she has not killed a bird in her first two years. I got to watch her not take a marginal shot this year on a bird and then demonstrated the same restraint by not shooting it when it was on my side with a slam dunk shot, hoping it would give her a better shot. This ethic was taught to her with a decoy out (FOR SHAME, I am a poor and pitiful sinner ::)).
My best advice is to stop bragging about your hunting skills and take new hunters out to teach them. Preaching to others is a waste of time. It will cost you birds, but the price is worth it in the long run.
Well thought, well put sir.
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Lot of good points in this discussion. I agree as hunters we should hold "the hunting industry" accountable. The sad part to me is that the suppliers of most hunting gear couldn't care less about wildlife in general. It's all about the dollar to them. TV hunting for the most part is more detrimental than positive. All it teaches is that success is more important than method or respect for the animals we hunt. Mentoring is great and wonderful but the almighty tv is reaching far more people faster and in greater numbers. This isn't a blind/decoy rant but an overall view of hunting in general. We can argue over that stuff all day long and I don't know where the real line is. I know where my personal line is and that's all that matters to me. What does scare me is the attitude that we don't care how we get what we want as long as we get it. Then it quits being hunting.
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Quote from: Happy on May 07, 2017, 09:07:27 PM
Lot of good points in this discussion. I agree as hunters we should hold "the hunting industry" accountable. The sad part to me is that the suppliers of most hunting gear couldn't care less about wildlife in general. It's all about the dollar to them. TV hunting for the most part is more detrimental than positive. All it teaches is that success is more important than method or respect for the animals we hunt. Mentoring is great and wonderful but the almighty tv is reaching far more people faster and in greater numbers. This isn't a blind/decoy rant but an overall view of hunting in general. We can argue over that stuff all day long and I don't know where the real line is. I know where my personal line is and that's all that matters to me. What does scare me is the attitude that we don't care how we get what we want as long as we get it. Then it quits being hunting. X2 agree....just hunt and enjoy what God has gave us all....
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Quote from: g8rvet on May 07, 2017, 07:01:30 PM
QuoteI don't talk much anymore about success because I like keeping it to myself.
Guy in my town, that I don't much care for, knows I turkey hunt and was constantly bragging to me about how he had killed 5-6 birds each year (our limit is two). I got sick of it and when he asked me one day how I had been doing, I lied through my teeth. "Well, lets see, I killed 2 in Alabama, 3 in Georgia, I have one left to kill in Florida and then I will go out West and try to kill 2 more. I don't shoot over my limit but I have plenty of money to travel out of state". He has never asked me about turkey hunting again and that was 5 years ago and I see him once a week or so.
LOL! I did almost the exact thing one time! He was one upped more than he could handle and had nothing else to say!
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Quote from: WNCTracker on May 07, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on May 07, 2017, 06:55:21 PM
Mentoring is a start. Peer pressure is effective too, but not in the way it has been applied on this thread. Using insults to criticize another is the sign of a weak mind and the sign of someone losing a debate (this is no debate, because no one here will change their viewpoint and there will certainly not be a winner). When your buddy says "I got my cameras out, etc etc," wherever you draw the line, a simple raised eyebrow or a gentle "I don't hunt that way" will be 1000 times more effective.
Hunter education does make a difference in water fowling in my state. Still plenty of crazy, selfish duck hunters, but getting them young and teaching ethics may pull them back from the bad influences.
Manufacturers? None whatsoever. People vote with their wallets and capitalism is the way of our country. If people stop demanding the newer technology due to hunter education, mentoring and peer pressure, the well will dry up.
Ah, the who is to blame question. I don't know. The answers are not as simplistic as the preachers would have you think. I do know, due to multiple family members in the teaching profession (wife and daughter for starters), that today's kids think and learn totally different than my generation. As little as 10-15 years ago when my daughter was in the same school she now teaches even. Kids today are visual, fast paced learners that are easily bored. ADD and ADHD are real and although I am not sure the incidence is on the rise, the diagnosis certainly seems to be. Teaching today requires multiple media to engage the child that is bombarded with stimulation outside the classroom. And that carries over to hunting and fishing. Oldschool, with all his inane comments, has that right-younger hunters and newer hunters want video game success without the effort. But my great nephew, with his diagnosis of ADD, will be taught to hunt and fish correctly. We are already on that path. That patience is it's own reward. It ain't easy though.
I am currently teaching my previously disinterested 23 year old daughter to turkey hunt. I made her practice holding and firing the gun. I have enforced the process and made it about the hunt and not about the kill. I knew she had it in her, she is my best fishing buddy and outfishes and outcatches her older brother. I am actually glad she has not killed a bird in her first two years. I got to watch her not take a marginal shot this year on a bird and then demonstrated the same restraint by not shooting it when it was on my side with a slam dunk shot, hoping it would give her a better shot. This ethic was taught to her with a decoy out (FOR SHAME, I am a poor and pitiful sinner ::)).
My best advice is to stop bragging about your hunting skills and take new hunters out to teach them. Preaching to others is a waste of time. It will cost you birds, but the price is worth it in the long run.
Well thought, well put sir.
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Amen!
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Quote from: Happy on May 06, 2017, 05:21:18 AM
For me it's about camo, a shotgun and shells. I have used a single hen decoy from time to time but I am not convinced that it helps as much as it can hurt. I think HTL can be a great tool but is often abused. Game cameras and bait are a no go. So is roost shooting electronic calls, strutter/jake decoys and blinds. Investing effort and skill into a successful hunt is what I prefer and I want to earn it.
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My thoughts exactly!