Which of the 4 are the hardest to kill in the US?
I have friends that truly think easterns are the hardest to kill...which is the hardest to kill and why?
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Depends a lot on hunting pressure, population,and the experience level of the hunter.
All things being equal and on public land I'd say
1.Osceola fragmented habitat and limited public land.
2.Eastern hard hunted public land easterns are as tough as anything in north America.
3.Rio depending on state you can find huge populations in some areas making them easier just by numbers.
4.Merriams no offense to the bird or his home area but I've found them to be some were between a wild turkey and a tame turkey not overly cautious and willing to come to call from a distance, also the open habitat makes seeing them easier.
These are generalizations any one of the 4 could leave you dazed and confused given the right circumstance.
A old eastern that has seen and heard it all.
One that doesn't want to die
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No idea. Id say henned up easterns in a big ag field can be pretty tough
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If you are solely talking hunting and not limiting by access to said birds I am going to go with an Eastern. From my experience I can only judge on 3 subspecies having never hunted for an Osceola...
1. Eastern: Toughest birds I have hunted seem to develop an attitude (Wariness) when they see some hunting pressure
2. Rio: Found plenty to hunt in TX & OK birds called well.
3. Merriams: Birds gobbled easy and came to the call once you got in front of where they were going
MK M GOBL
The 4 on the KS WIHA that can't be killed with a bow. I walked away from em this year. This is where they live. Go get em gun hunters....please. lol(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/af77d8d1519aa26d5b0d14df91f58442.jpg)
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Excluding the MX subspecies (which are hard -only due to the difficulty in getting to one), in my experience any bird can be hard to kill. ( or easy). For me, a true South Florida Osceola is the toughest, only due to the difficulty in gaining access to where he lives.
I've killed more Easterns than any other ( I live in GA)..that said,some of the most willing birds I have killed have been Easterns. I'm talking about the stupid, still dark , pitch down off the roost and land in gun range hunts.
A Merriams with 15-20 hens in his harem living on a huge tract of mountainous land with an agenda to travel faster than you can keep up is tough..
Just like a Rio that lives on the other side of the fence from property you don't have permission to hunt and gobbles all morning .. he's tough too.
Folks that say this bird or that bird is unkillable, may be right on that particular day. Still, it's a bird driven by sexual desire in the time of the year when he is most vulnerable. His brain is the size of a pea and his need to breed is strong. I have always said and proven it to be true, give a man with skill a few days to figure out a "unkillable" bird , and it's nuggets for dinner.
That said, its easy to lock up your whole season on one bird that is difficult. Those birds need to be walked away from and come back to one day late season after his hens are sitting..
To quote" If you think a longbeard is tough to kill in the Spring when he is obsessed with love, try calling in the same bird in the Fall when he doesn't want any company" It's all relative.
Hands down...a deep southern Florida, Big Cypress swamp-dwelling, and hard-scrabble Osceola. Ain't many of them, hard to get to, and protect by a maddening alliance of blood-sucking and toothy, man-eating critters.
Havent hunted Osceola yet. Going to black hills in a couple of weeks for my first merriams hunt so cant speak for them yet. But ive hunted tx rios a lot and easterns here in LA. Of the tow these Louisiana public land easterns can make u want to quit hunting sometimes. Hunting pressure is ridiculous and they become very wary to even gobble. A tx hill country rio is a pleasure to hunt after grinding on these easterns. But i havent hunted easterns outside of LA so cant say much for more populated states.
A Pa long beard, if he gobbles 9 other guys have heard him. He has been shot at with a rifle while out strutting in a field. Been called to for 3 weeks prior to the season, and has heard 25 owls calls and 12 crow calls.
I have hunted in 9 states and killed birds in all. Nothing as tough as a bird on public ground n Pa.
Eastern on public land along the potomac. The pressure on these birds is insane. I agree with the above post about pa public birds. Our season is still 3 weeks out and last evening I was watching 2 separate flocks from over a mile away through my spotting scope. BOTH flocks were stalked and spooked by camo clad call blowing idiots....what is the point? I don't get it.
I would say easterns!
Quote from: catman529 on April 09, 2017, 04:55:13 PM
No idea. Id say henned up easterns in a big ag field can be pretty tough
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This
Everyone thinks the birds they hunt are the "toughest"
Ask David Ellis or Dave Owens... their opinions may hold the most validity..
Osceola is the hardest.
Eastern is next
Rio was the hardest for my slam but there are plenty of birds and they do respond to calls well
Miriam's are the easiest that I have hunted. Respond well to call and they will cross anything to get to a hen
I joke all the time about eastern s getting hung up on a rock in a hay field. But during season I begin to wonder if this is a joke
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Southeastern Eastern then Osceolas.
Have hunted a Rios and they were just fun. Have heard Merriams are the easiest.
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I've only had the opportunity to hunt the Eastern turkey and the most difficult one to take of that species is the dominate bird. For most part, in the first four Southern Illinois seasons (spread through April 3-April 26 this spring), he has his subordinates to do his bidding concerning confronting other gobblers and available hens want to cuddle up to him for breeding. In these seasons, he can become almost untouchable. Very late in the breeding season, he becomes more vulnerable when fewer hens are responding to his gobbles. At this point, the sound of a willing hen coupled with that of an intruder gobbler often will overcome his reluctance to stand his ground and he may come on in. In Southern Illinois, the 5th and final spring season (April 27-May 4 this spring) is the most likely time to produce an opportunity to take a dominate gobbler. While it's my favorite of the five seasons to hunt, if the breeding is over there's no activity and hunting is extremely difficult.
I grew up hunting public land Osceolas. I now live in Tennessee and have hunted easterns here, in Georgia, and Alabama. By far Osceolas are tougher.
Mississippi Public land easterns get pretty tough to hunt around April, they become ghost after being hit by the Arkansas horde.
Quote from: Lucky_Strutter on April 10, 2017, 06:07:49 AM
Mississippi Public land easterns get pretty tough to hunt around April, they become ghost after being hit by the Arkansas horde.
Had some arkansas boys driving around down here saturday. Talk about educate some birds!!
Quote from: Phillipshunt on April 09, 2017, 04:03:02 PM
Depends a lot on hunting pressure, population,and the experience level of the hunter.
All things being equal and on public land I'd say
1.Osceola fragmented habitat and limited public land.
2.Eastern hard hunted public land easterns are as tough as anything in north America.
3.Rio depending on state you can find huge populations in some areas making them easier just by numbers.
4.Merriams no offense to the bird or his home area but I've found them to be some were between a wild turkey and a tame turkey not overly cautious and willing to come to call from a distance, also the open habitat makes seeing them easier.
These are generalizations any one of the 4 could leave you dazed and confused given the right circumstance.
Good summary. I agree for the most part, especially with the last statement. There are so many factors that influence a gobbler's willingness to cooperate with a turkey hunter, regardless of subspecies, that making comparisons is nothing more than good conversation.
If we could put equal numbers of birds in equivalent conditions,...that is, similar habitat, same weather conditions, same time in the breeding season, same hunting pressure exposure, and same hunter ability,...it would indeed be interesting to see what the results would be in such an experiment.
Until that time, the question of which is hardest to kill is nothing more than rhetorical.
Quote from: Lucky_Strutter on April 10, 2017, 06:07:49 AM
Mississippi Public land easterns get pretty tough to hunt around April, they become ghost after being hit by the Arkansas horde.
well said and spot on. If you can kill a Mississippi or Alabama public land bird consistently , you can kill birds anywhere.
Maryland public land eastern. For my first md public land hunt I went to the WMA the night before season to roost one. I was the only truck there. The next morning (the first day) I got there an hour early and there were 10 trucks in that parking lot!! Good luck hunting there.
Quote from: joker on April 10, 2017, 09:10:34 AM
Maryland public land eastern. For my first md public land hunt I went to the WMA the night before season to roost one. I was the only truck there. The next morning (the first day) I got there an hour early and there were 10 trucks in that parking lot!! Good luck hunting there.
10 trucks. That would be a pleasure down here lol. More like 50 trucks
I would tend to agree with most everything above... That being said I think it would be a tie between a Southeastern Eastern primarily LA,MS and Bama and an Osceola. Private vs public changes everything too. I do think hunting pressure plays a huge role in this as birds out west seem to get less pressure and it is easier to find places that haven't been hunted as hard. But, catch any subspecies on the right day and they can make you look like a fool or a magician.
Mississippi public land Easterns can cause sleepless nights and irritable bowel syndrome. :z-dizzy:
Both the easiest and the hardest birds I've dealt with have been of the same subspecies. In fact, they were from the same county, so I refuse to generalize.
The one that ain't dead yet.
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The limb hanger that gobbles his head off on your neighbor's farm but refuses to budge an inch.
Was looking up other stuff on the NWTF page and seen this.
Florida (Osceola) wild turkey:
Characteristics
Dark-brown tips on tail feathers
Mostly black wings with very small white bands
Adult males weigh approximately 20 pounds
Adult females weigh 8 to 12 pounds
Long legs
Strong gobbles
Very long spurs
Shorter beard-lengths than Easterns on average
Considered the toughest species to call in
Eastern wild turkey:
Characteristics
Chestnut-brown tips on tail feathers
White and black bars on the wings
Adult males weigh 18 to 30 pounds
Adult females weigh 8 to 12 pounds
Very strong gobbles (strongest gobbles of all subspecies)
Very long beards (longest beards of all subspecies)
Second to the Osceola in difficulty of calling in
Rio Grande wild turkey:
Characteristics
Tan-colored tips on tail feathers
Same amount of black and white barring on wings
Adult males weigh approximately 20 pounds on average
Adult females weigh 8 to 12 pounds
Moderate gobbles
Moderate beard-lengths
Moderate spur-lengths
Merriam's wild turkey:
Characteristics
Light tips on tail feathers and upper tail coverts (rump feathers), buff to white
More white and less black on wings
Adult males weigh 18 to 30 pounds
Adult females weigh 8 to 12 pounds
Weakest gobbles of all subspecies
Short to moderate beard length
Short spurs
Gould's wild turkey:
Characteristics
Long legs similar to the Osceola
Snow-white tips on tail feathers and upper tail coverts
Wings are moderate in coloration
Adult males weigh 18 to 30 pounds
Ocellated turkey:
Characteristics
Rainbow-like iridescent feathering
Grey tail feathers with blue and gold tips
White and black wings
Adult Males weigh 11 to 12 pounds
Adult females weigh 6 to 7 pounds
A unique, high-pitched "gobble" preceded by a hollow drumming sound
No beard
Very long spurs
Adult females weigh 12 to 14 pounds
Moderate gobbles
Moderate beard-lengths
Shortest spurs of all subspecies
MK M GOBL
Henned up gobblers is henned up gobblers. Doesn't matter where you find them or what color their tails are.................
Easterns................... Rios............... Merriam's................. Gould's................ (haven't hunted Osceolas yet but I can't see them being unique).................. if they've got hens, they're ALL gonna p*** you off more often than not.
In my experience, the hardest birds I've EVER hunted are the Easterns I'm hunting at home. They've got a gazillion hens and they have 365 days a year access to a corn feeder 500 yards into a posted property bordering ours. I've called LOTS of gobblers either in WITH their hens or AWAY from their hens. But calling them 500 yards away from their hens AND shelled corn is a low percentage proposition.....................
Osceolas are by far the easiest turkeys I've ever hunted. They're? not even in the ballpark with birds I hunt in AL.
A Osceola that lives in the cypress. To me that's the toughest one. Mainly due the thickness of that particular habit
Quote from: TRG3 on April 09, 2017, 10:16:14 PM
I've only had the opportunity to hunt the Eastern turkey and the most difficult one to take of that species is the dominate bird. For most part, in the first four Southern Illinois seasons (spread through April 3-April 26 this spring), he has his subordinates to do his bidding concerning confronting other gobblers and available hens want to cuddle up to him for breeding. In these seasons, he can become almost untouchable. Very late in the breeding season, he becomes more vulnerable when fewer hens are responding to his gobbles. At this point, the sound of a willing hen coupled with that of an intruder gobbler often will overcome his reluctance to stand his ground and he may come on in. In Southern Illinois, the 5th and final spring season (April 27-May 4 this spring) is the most likely time to produce an opportunity to take a dominate gobbler. While it's my favorite of the five seasons to hunt, if the breeding is over there's no activity and hunting is extremely difficult.
I agree fully.With the youth and first seasons being the hardest . My favorite seasons to hunt are 4th and 5th. I have up to this point only hunted Easterns in IL MO KY and TN but looking at going after Rios next spring in Ok or KS.
Ivm sure it matters on the particular turkeys. I have only hunted Osceolas. A late season public land turkey in a free for all WMA is as tough as it gets here. Much harder than an early season bird on the same WMA. Which is mor difficult than a gobbler on a quota WMA. Un hunted private land birds in the same area can be downright dumb.