The reason I'm asking this is because I've heard more than once that often times the shot is the wrong size or very deformed. I don't really know how much difference a deformed shot actually makes, but according to some, a lot.
Also, why is everyone preaching #7s? Is getting 200 pellets that important or would 100 do the job and have something hit a little harder farther down the range? I realize the heavier loads are extending the range, but why not go down a shot size or two and extend it a little farther. I'm not being critical, I'm just wondering.
One last thing, are all the heavier than lead turkey loads the same makeup? I know they are using tungsten but is it a blend or is it 100% tungsten? Thanks guys.
This thread should be a sticky. :icon_thumright:
QuoteIs getting 200 pellets that important
It's important for being able to pull off 45-55+ yard shots. :goofball:
QuoteIs getting 200 pellets that important
It's important for being able to pull off 45-55+ yard shots. :goofball:
[/quote]
Why is that? When shooting lead you go down in size not up? I would think your range would extend with fewer pellets hitting harder? It only takes one, not 200. I'm not saying I would shoot a gun to the point of too few pellets hitting a target to ensure a kill, but i think you get my point.
I always say go with 7s because they can kill at 60 yards And also produce a killing pattern at 60 yards if you ever have to shoot that far
If the combo I'm shooting can't put 100 in a 10" circle at a certain yardage then that's my cut off point. With lead that's usually 40 yards
Here's my opinion of pellet counts. If you ever seen 100 pellets patterned say at 40 yards vs 200 pellets at 40 there are always big gaps in the pattern with only 100 hitting inside a 10" circle, given your using the same shell. With 200 hitting those gaps are much smaller, it could mean the difference between a smackdown and a wounded bird. Also HTL tends to pattern better than lead due to less pellet derformation because it's harder, it really doesn't matter how round the shot is as so much as it retains it shot column coming through the choke.
I had these same questions until I shot Hevi. On paper there is no comparison. I would much rather have the hevi pattern headed down range at a bird than the lead pattern. You are right "lead is dead" just as well. But it is hard to argue with the patterns hevi shot is producing.
Let me ask a better question. Why Not? :smiley-char092:
Well it is one of them do you need it or do you want it. I think it is both. If all the stars and the moon is in line you would not need the 250 to 300 at 40 yards. Now that said you not going to get that. You are going to miss read the bird and shoot more then 40 sometimes. You going to have trash that you don't see at times. You going to be moving and he is going to be moving so the holes in the pattern with less shot you not want.
Then we like to say do you want to kill him or eat him. We want to blow him up. :fud:
One more thing to consider is that with the hard HTL pellets hitting bone they shatter the bone rather than just break it, if a lead pellet nicks the neck bone it can smear the lead pellet and glance off but the hard HTL pellet will break the bone.
Kurt
Inside 30, I WANT MUSHED TURKEY HEAD!!! at 40+, I want no doubt that I am going to cleanly and ethically knock that bird's beak in the dirt!! THAT is why I go with the HTL loads. Do I use lead? Sure, but not so much these days. I still have a ton of lead turkey loads but the HTL stuf just outperforms all day long.
i've seen a heck of a lot more birds wounded from lead than from hevi shot, hevi shot gives room for error if you for example misjudge a distance if you think a bird is at 40 and your lead load puts 100 in the 10" and its really at 50 your going to be lucky to get 50 in the 10" at that distance and you run the risk of wounding the bird.
if you get 250 in the 10" at 40 w/ hevi shot then you know you are good to at least 55yds if you misjudge a distance
i know very few people who can accurately judge distances when they are at ground level hiding behind some bushes while they are concentrating on calling in a bird and aiming correctly, hevi shot gives you some leeway when it comes to distance
Quote from: hunttherut on April 10, 2011, 10:40:19 AM
I had these same questions until I shot Hevi. On paper there is no comparison. I would much rather have the hevi pattern headed down range at a bird than the lead pattern. You are right "lead is dead" just as well. But it is hard to argue with the patterns hevi shot is producing.
:agreed: My Hevi patterns looked twice as good as my lead #5 patterns.
Honestly, all it will take is for you to buy some hevi 13 6's or 7's and shoot them through a turkey gun at a 3' x 3' piece of paper ( 30 or 40yds),,then go shoot a wild turkey with it and you will have no questions why it is better than lead.. :begging:
I should have phrased this question a little better. I know the reasons behind shooting a heavier than lead substitute, I am curious why soo many people seem to be shooting that brand in particular? I'm mainly wondering if the other manufacturers are using the exact same makeup or if Hevi Shot is different. I'm not really sure why the pattern would be better than others either, but who knows.
I didn't mean to sound like I was comparing Hevi shot to lead, more of a comparison between Hevi Shot and the other heavier than lead ammo. Sorry for the confusion.
I shoot H-13 because it patterns well and performs well in the field. Better than anything I have ever tried, except Nitro of course.
I do think EM is a shady company though...
mudhen
I get 110 in 10 at 40 with lead.
I get 256 with Hevi 13 mag blend 5,6,7.
I shoot an 870 Express Super Mag with a 665 Jellyhead.
I now think it is that important.
Well since Hevishot hit the market, no other shell has won the still target championships. All categories, all classes, all guages.
That's a pretty impressive statistic. Call them shady, say its overkill, say whatever you want, but they've still dominated patterning competitions.
QuoteWell since Hevishot hit the market, no other shell has won the still target championships. All categories, all classes, all guages.
The all-time world record NWTF still target record of 54 hits in a 3" circle at 40 Yards was accomplished with original Winchester XRHD through an INV+ Indian Creek .675 choke.
Well don't beat me up to bad but.......... i shot a bird at about 53 yrds using #7 hevi 13 3.5" and did not kill him. Basically he raised one wing and flew out of the field. Everyone may love hevi 13 but as for me i will be trading my hevi 13 and jellyhead for my old trusty standard winchester in #4 or #5 shot and my gobblin thunder choke. I have killed a lot of turkey with the gt and if i can't shoot past 45 yrds i will not pay the price for hevi 13. Just one opinion. Btw... it may not have been exactly 53 yrds because i didn't range find it but i did go home and pattern the gun at the same distance by steping it off and it produced a really good pattern. People may say i missed the turkey but i have fully adjustable sights and i patterned the setup.
To answer your question about pellet size, why shoot Hevi #4's that have enough energy to 80+yds when they will be lucky to give a killing pattern at 40 due to low pellet numbers.
A local here in town shot lead 4's for years and just smoked turkeys with his setup. Anything other than 4's was hummingbird shot. He bought WinXR #4's and hevi 4's and started loosing birds. When he patterned them he had around 40 pellets on a sheet of paper at 40yds. All the energy in the world but not enough pattern density to matter. He went back to lead 4's because hevi or XR 6's or 7's were not enough or turkeys. He could not wrap his head around the fact that they are HEAVY shot and there are less pellets per ounce of hevi 4's than lead 4's and that the hevi 6's were more effective than lead 6's.
good point.
you'll just have to buy some and shoot them....
That's what got me on board... I heard great things from here and decided to give em a try. I bought 10 full size targets and 5 hevi #6s... for a whopping $23 dollars.
They patterned with higher numbers and with a more even pattern than my selected load for this year... That's what I'll be using.
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/trkehunr93/DSCF4372.jpg)
This is my reason. I have shot the "old white" 3" 1 3/4oz. #6's up until this year (switched to 3.5" #7's) and have not had one drop like it had been hit in the head with a brick like this one did at 30-35 yrds. Never had my lead loads do that even with 20 yd. shots. Plus I could never get the pattern with lead that I get w/ Hevi 13. just my 2 cents
This is why.
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And this.
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All I know is I shot lead forever and when I decided to try Hevi Shot I tried #6s and Magnum Blend. The 6s were way better than anything I had ever shot before and the Mangum Blend was even better than the 6s.
I think the difference in companies is R&D the shot is great and then the matched choke tubes they are awsome. :newmascot:
shoot them both and you will see. also try nitros and you will see. but if you dont want to spend the extra money thats ok too. but the new htl shells are awesome and they help alot if you misjudge a birds distance...
I shoot both lead and HTL, but will do my hunting from now on with HTL.
Here's an example...
Federal Mag-Shok lead 3.5-2-6 with FCW and my SSX .643" choke @40 yards: 124 hits in a 10" circle
Hevi 13 load of 3.5-1.75.6 through my SSX choke @40 yards: 155 hits in a 10" circle.
Now I realize that an extra 31 pellets isn't a make or break pattern, but consider the Hevi 13 load is throwing a better pattern with a 1/4 ounce smaller payload. At 30 yards, the Federal FCW #6 pattern was better than the Hevi 13 pattern but once I moved out to 40 yards, you could see (and count) the difference.
HTL wins for pattern density at 40+ yards... for shots out to 30-35 yards, lead is still plenty adequate!