So been prepping for another string of seminars I have coming up for the next month and in one of my expert level seminars "Let's Talk Success" I talk about the mental game, how to put it all together and measuring success in a number of different ways, either that you tagged your bird or were able to help another in tagging their (first bird, maybe a first with a bow, a learn to hunt, or mentored hunt) or that you learned from the experience, an unsuccessful hunt...
Not to say I am a numbers guy, but I have kept a notebook (now the laptop) of every bird since day one of my turkey hunting history. I was in WI DNR website to look at what the average success rate of turkey hunters in WI is? Not just how many are taken annually but what kind of success one may expect, statewide we have a 24% success rate. I'm sure this 24% has a lot to do with "new" hunters to seasoned and what not, I usually get a survey every year on how my season went.
So last year out of the 13 tags I had or hunted/"Guided": (1) Learn to Hunt, (3) Youth Season (2) First Season (1) Second Season (1) Third Season (2) Fourth Season (1) Fifth Season and (2) Sixth Season Tags.
6th Season was a couple hours hunt each morning till the heat hit and then a friend and I were on the water Bowfishin' (One of my other addictions)
In all ended up tagging 11 longbeards!!
It was a pretty good year for the 2016 season, I carried a 84.6% Success Rate :)
Here's to 2017 Spring Season, Good Luck!!
MK M GOBL
That's a GREAT year... :icon_thumright:
I'd say ya done OK. Yep.
You're a good ways above the curve.
I've been more successful at killing the turkeys than they been in killing me.
I don't have a problem with hunters who say they kill "x" amount. It's just a goal IMO. I still have a few goals i would like to accomplish in turkey hunting. I also kept a log at one time. It is fun to go back 20 or more years and read about how your hunt went.
Quote from: fallhnt on February 20, 2017, 10:07:13 PM
I don't have a problem with hunters who say they kill "x" amount. It's just a goal IMO. I still have a few goals i would like to accomplish in turkey hunting. I also kept a log at one time. It is fun to go back 20 or more years and read about how your hunt went.
It is always hard thing to post about "numbers" and how others look at it...
Agreed numbers are just numbers, I started that notebook 28 years ago for several reasons. Mostly because it's the first thing I ever started hunting on my own, Dad had never hunted turkey and Wisconsin didn't have them when I was young growing up. A buddy and I decided to try it one year and I started my notes on our hunt, the next year I talked to my dad to going turkey hunting with me and has been a big part of my life since then. In it's notes it taught me about how hunts went both good and bad, I wrote a bit about every hunt, who I was with and how the year went. As you know there is a lot more to turkey hunting than just killing a bird and within those numbers there are those that I have shared my hunts with, from taking buddies and their kids, family and friends to the mentoring I do and it all is what this turkey hunting is about for me. I still have plenty of things I would like to accomplish in the time I have left chasing them longbeards :)
So it's not all about those numbers... they are just a small part of it.
MK M GOBL
My most successful hunts are the ones that are ingrained in my memory. And, some of those didn't involve a kill.
Couldn't honestly say how many I have killed or been responsible for the death of and don't really care. I lost count years ago when I was moving around and I also had a cat that loved to destroy beards. I don't keep score and just keep looking for the next one to chase. As long as I have tags I hunt and if I run out I have others to help.
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Quote from: dejake on February 21, 2017, 05:07:19 AM
My most successful hunts are the ones that are ingrained in my memory. And, some of those didn't involve a kill.
I agree totally.
But, some like to brag to others on how many birds they have taken, and nobody likes a braggart!!!
:agreed:
My favorite hunts involve gobbling, reposition,more gobbling, audible wings dragging or small twigs breaking and a gobbler to hunt the next day. Killing one that will play the game is bittersweet.
I was fortunate to guide/outfit professionally for a long time. When talking to a potential client the first question ALWAYS asked was, "what is your success rate ?"
It can be looked at in several ways, either pure numbers, as in actual number killed, or a percentage rate for the opportunity at success. I would not fail at my job of putting you on a deer that you definitely had a shot at, so my success rate was 100% most years. The goober sitting in the stand that couldn't hit the broad side of a red barn consistently kept the actual success rate hovering around 25%. So what do you want to hear ? I can't book people by telling them I have a 25% success rate. I told them the truth, I will set you up to succeed, it is up to you to finish it. If my clients had killed 50% of the deer I put them on I would be considered the greatest whitetail guide in America, but it doesn't work that way.......soon I became bitter about it. I was measuring my success against theirs. I needed their success to further my business and when it didn't work out I started going mad...literally mad, because I looked at pure numbers. I left the business......I now have a severe dislike of the "trophy" side of deer hunting in any form and I'm not scared to say it. I could tell you stories that would leave you speechless.
Flash Forward 10 years
I have a dear friend on this forum that I absolutely love to turkey hunt with. In our years of friendship we have never deer hunted together. But we have piled up some birds. If I had a bird that I had to get killed, he gets the nod. It will die. The boy could absolutely care less. He has tagged out in our state the past 17 years, usually in just a day or three. Could absolutely care less. It's about setting up the tent, cooking great food and a cold beer at nite beside the fire. It completely changed my way of thinking about hunting. The fire I see in his eyes when a gobbler booms is soul stirring but I see that same fire when he is roasting a weenie on a stick over a camp fire. It's all about the journey and that just can't be measured. I finally started feeling better about it when I learned to quit giving a rip. Got back to the basics, enjoying life more AND loving the ride as a whole. Our best times spent together have involved walking miles down logging roads in the dark, heading toward a roost, talking non-stop about our families or trout fishing. The very best of times have involved a pot of beans and a piece of chicken. That's good stuff man, I quit measuring success in any form. Any day on this side of the grass is a great day.
Somethings are too personal to talk about.
Quote from: dirt road ninja on February 20, 2017, 09:24:49 PM
I've been more successful at killing the turkeys than they been in killing me.
I have been close to being a casualty!
One regret I have that I didn't do is my wife bought me a nice journal along time ago and asked me to jot down whenever I did hunt what might have lead to me bagging a bird or not. Just a short story with details from the weather,time of day if I succeeded ,call or calls i used,and how everything played out. I also don't believe success is measured by carrying a bird out everytime you hunt,but we're also not carrying a gun with us because the only enjoyment were after is the fresh air and listening to the birds sing that's just part of the reason we are out enjoying what we like to do...
It's funny how priorities change as one gets older. My goal on every hunt is to kill a gobbler, but it isn't as important as it once was. I know I have fewer seasons ahead of me than behind me. At 65, I'm the second youngest of the guys in our Missouri and Wisconsin camps, and success now means enjoying good times with each and every member of camp. So, yeah, numbers are nice. Really, though, they are meaningless. We don't always kill turkeys, but our "success" rate is always 100%.
Statewide success rates likely are not taking into account hunters that did not hunt and many hunters that have very little time in the woods...Over the last few seasons I have only failed to fill a few tags out of dozens...I have never really kept track but I do know I have filled all my Illinois tags for 4 years in a row and maybe more? That's 12 in a row plus...I spend more time than most scouting and hunting at it pays off!!!
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Quote from: BowBendr on February 21, 2017, 10:00:21 AM
I was fortunate to guide/outfit professionally for a long time. When talking to a potential client the first question ALWAYS asked was, "what is your success rate ?"
It can be looked at in several ways, either pure numbers, as in actual number killed, or a percentage rate for the opportunity at success. I would not fail at my job of putting you on a deer that you definitely had a shot at, so my success rate was 100% most years. The goober sitting in the stand that couldn't hit the broad side of a red barn consistently kept the actual success rate hovering around 25%. So what do you want to hear ? I can't book people by telling them I have a 25% success rate. I told them the truth, I will set you up to succeed, it is up to you to finish it. If my clients had killed 50% of the deer I put them on I would be considered the greatest whitetail guide in America, but it doesn't work that way.......soon I became bitter about it. I was measuring my success against theirs. I needed their success to further my business and when it didn't work out I started going mad...literally mad, because I looked at pure numbers. I left the business......I now have a severe dislike of the "trophy" side of deer hunting in any form and I'm not scared to say it. I could tell you stories that would leave you speechless.
Flash Forward 10 years
I have a dear friend on this forum that I absolutely love to turkey hunt with. In our years of friendship we have never deer hunted together. But we have piled up some birds. If I had a bird that I had to get killed, he gets the nod. It will die. The boy could absolutely care less. He has tagged out in our state the past 17 years, usually in just a day or three. Could absolutely care less. It's about setting up the tent, cooking great food and a cold beer at nite beside the fire. It completely changed my way of thinking about hunting. The fire I see in his eyes when a gobbler booms is soul stirring but I see that same fire when he is roasting a weenie on a stick over a camp fire. It's all about the journey and that just can't be measured. I finally started feeling better about it when I learned to quit giving a rip. Got back to the basics, enjoying life more AND loving the ride as a whole. Our best times spent together have involved walking miles down logging roads in the dark, heading toward a roost, talking non-stop about our families or trout fishing. The very best of times have involved a pot of beans and a piece of chicken. That's good stuff man, I quit measuring success in any form. Any day on this side of the grass is a great day.
You just nailed the reason and wrapped in ribbon why I will always say "i enjoy turkey hunting better than deer hunting" even the the reward and challenge could be considered greater with deer, I know I enjoy the meat more. There is so much BS that surrounds deer hunting these days from other hunters, social networking and tv, even friends and family.. People naming deer and thinking that frequent or a single sighting entitles only them to the ownership of a wild animal or what you killed was immature by their standards and wasn't a good deer to kill.
A gobbler is gobbler is a gobbler and we kill all that we have tags for and enjoy each one for the sake of the hunt and not some silly ornamental object grown on the animals body.
That said and back to the topic on hand, I'm an Accountant and numbers and statistics are kind of my thing so i do keep track for my own personal knowledge my statistics and success ratios but I rarely spout off about them (sometimes a little). Success is also a loaded statistic and is based more on access to the game than skill required to harvesting them. I hunt two states each and every year, one I hunt predominantly private land and quality land for turkeys the other I hunt exclusively public in a part of the state with low populations of birds and high pressure. In one state I am something like 94% successful at filling my spring tags in less than 5 days the other I am roughly 25% at filled them over the entire month long season.. am I the same hunter in each state???
Hunting for a turkey to kill is much different than hunting a turkey to kill it.
Quote from: maytom on February 21, 2017, 08:40:48 AM
Quote from: dejake on February 21, 2017, 05:07:19 AM
My most successful hunts are the ones that are ingrained in my memory. And, some of those didn't involve a kill.
I agree totally.
But, some like to brag to others on how many birds they have taken, and nobody likes a braggart!!!
Maytom, doesn't your avatar have a plaque with numerous beards for everyone to see? The original posters thread title is Lets talk about success..Old Gobblers main rule: BE NICE!!!
Like you mentioned MK M GOBL, success isn't always measured in numbers. In the past 3 years I have scratched in my home state of Louisiana and neighboring Mississippi. My highest numbers have come from Texas. But even there, I have scratched 2 of the 5 years I have hunted there and only "tagged out" once.
However, nearly every year, I come back with memories that will stick with me forever. In fact, some of the "almosts" are the most memorable. And that is where my "success" is measured.
Also, just as BowBendr mentioned some of the biggest smiles come not from the kill, but from the journey getting there.
+1 This ------> Success is also a loaded statistic and is based more on access to the game than skill required to harvesting them.
I just want to see it "happen" one more time.
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on February 21, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: maytom on February 21, 2017, 08:40:48 AM
Quote from: dejake on February 21, 2017, 05:07:19 AM
My most successful hunts are the ones that are ingrained in my memory. And, some of those didn't involve a kill.
I agree totally.
But, some like to brag to others on how many birds they have taken, and nobody likes a braggart!!!
Maytom, doesn't your avatar have a plaque with numerous beards for everyone to see? The original posters thread title is Lets talk about success..Old Gobblers main rule: BE NICE!!!
My avatar is just that, a pic. I'm not bragging, never have and never will. It just makes me chuckle at some folks who like to toot their own horn on how great they are.
Lord! Shannon gonna have to shut this down if this keeps up, ya'll remember we gotta be nice each other. We all look at hunting thru different sets of eyes and measure things differently based on our own personal needs.
Quote from: maytom on February 23, 2017, 08:53:43 AM
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on February 21, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: maytom on February 21, 2017, 08:40:48 AM
Quote from: dejake on February 21, 2017, 05:07:19 AM
My most successful hunts are the ones that are ingrained in my memory. And, some of those didn't involve a kill.
I agree totally.
But, some like to brag to others on how many birds they have taken, and nobody likes a braggart!!!
Maytom, doesn't your avatar have a plaque with numerous beards for everyone to see? The original posters thread title is Lets talk about success..Old Gobblers main rule: BE NICE!!!
My avatar is just that, a pic. I'm not bragging, never have and never will. It just makes me chuckle at some folks who like to toot their own horn on how great they are.
And we all measure success in a different way... Over 2/3rds of the birds I have "taken" I have never squeezed the trigger on. A few of them birds were when I was guiding (that in itself is another story...) But more than anything those "Numbers" are Youth Hunters, Learn to Hunts, Mentored Hunts, Family, Friends & some New to Turkey Hunting Hunters I have taken out over the last 27 years and yes some are my own birds I have tagged... I consider my greatest success "Numbers" is how many I have introduced to turkey hunting and being able to share my passion for this with others.
I'll count every one of these smiles every time!
MK M GOBL
Sounds like you had a pretty good year.
Quote from: tha bugman on February 22, 2017, 09:32:59 AM
+1 This ------> Success is also a loaded statistic and is based more on access to the game than skill required to harvesting them.
I just want to see it "happen" one more time.
Add me to this list. There places I can go hunt that I know I can kill the hell out of them,...and there are also places I go just to challenge myself. Sometimes I am the "greatest there ever was",...and sometimes you would think I had never turkey hunted in my life. I go, I hunt, and I see what happens. If I am successful, then I am one bad mammajamma,...and when I'm not, I'm still a "legend in my own mind". :toothy12: :toothy12: :newmascot: :newmascot: :toothy12: :toothy12:
A legend at the old folks home.
"Let's Talk Success"
Every year that I learn something new in the woods while turkey hunting is a success in my book.
In my opinion it would be fun to share a campfire with a different turkey hunter in every state who has successfully killed turkeys at least 10,20,30 or 40 consecutive years.
I have had this pleasure many times and it has been memorable to say the least
Sometimes it was a success just to roll out of the sleeping bag and find the tent zipper the next morning :icon_thumright: :happy0167: :icon_thumright:
Good luck to all of yuh this season....
Quote from: warrent423 on February 26, 2017, 02:02:43 PM
It's been my experience, that those who brag the most about "success" aren't usually very successful at all ;) I've often learned more from those who brag about being unsuccessful ;D
How about successful hunters who have pictures to prove they are successful???? Lol....Let me guess someone would still have a problem....Now we can't talk about being successful as far as harvesting a turkey...because it equals bragging????Ridiculous.
There are turkey hunters and there are turkey killers. I know which myself and my kids are.
I don't see showing pictures and telling the details of successful hunts as bragging. In fact I enjoy seeing the pictures and reading the stories. The turn off for me is when people mention every few posts that they have killed X number of birds blah blah blah is when I lose interest.
Success is a weird thing. I know for a fact that there are fellows on this site that have experienced far more sucess than I. I know some are reluctant to post pictures because they don't want to come off as bragging and that's a shame. I personally am not envious of anyone's success and prefere to keep my score with the turkeys. I know another fellow that went the other way with it. He was getting quite the reputation locally and was known as a flat out turkey slayer. Then the dnr began busting him multiple times. Baiting, trespassing, exceeding his bag limit and hunting after hours were a few of the charges. He had to kill turkeys and he didn't care what he had to do to accomplish that goal. I knew him well as a young man and looked up to him in a way. I learned a valuable lesson. I don't have anyone i put on a pedestal anymore.There are men who are quite good at this game and can give better advise than I and have killed more turkeys than I ever will, straight up and legal. I have to be the best hunter I can be and only gauge myself over my past history in an effort to improve. I will not let my desire to kill one override regulations or my belief in fair chase. Loosing track of how many I have killed is probably the best thing to happen to me. I could probably sit down with a pen and get close to an actual number but I won't do it. I would rather focus on hunting the next one. So in closing I would say to all the new hunters. Take it for what it is worth when you see a fellow with a load of turkey beards or spurs. It's a fellow who has killed a lot of turkeys. They may have been hunted legally or they may not have. That's for them to worry about. Hunt to the best of your ability, hunt safe and do your best to practice fair chase. Enjoy every day of it and when the day comes that you are successful enjoy it. This ain't supposed to be a peeing contest but about hunting one of the greatest game birds out there.
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From what I have seen (when I am let out of the old folks home) there are good turkey hunters, bad turkey hunters,...and all levels in between. There are also good places to turkey hunt, bad places to turkey hunt,...and all levels in between.
Put a good turkey hunter in a bad place to hunt turkeys and he may not kill a turkey. Put a bad turkey hunter in a really good turkey hunting place and he may kill a turkey. Does that make the bad turkey hunter a better turkey hunter than the good turkey hunter?
....Sometimes I just amaze myself (and the other old folks) at the depth of my wisdom.... ;D :toothy9: ;D
Quote from: guesswho on February 26, 2017, 06:15:27 PM
I don't see showing pictures and telling the details of successful hunts as bragging. In fact I enjoy seeing the pictures and reading the stories. The turn off for me is when people mention every few posts that they have killed X number of birds blah blah blah is when I lose interest.
I can understand that..I was just wondering where the bragging comments were coming from...and if we werent suppose to talk about actually harvesting .My feelings are everytime I hunt is a success because I'm out doing what I love and think about all year long. Some years my son and I fill our tags and some years we dont...The ones we don't i think are the ones that have kept turkey hunting at the top of my favorite things to do..it's challenging and somewhat humbling at times. Just when I think I have it all figured out they kick my rear and let me know I dont. I like the hunts where I'm humbled and then Boom everything comes together...
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 26, 2017, 06:30:42 PM....Sometimes I just amaze myself (and the other old folks) at the depth of my wisdom.... ;D :toothy9: ;D
I think it's spelled wizdumb.
Quote from: Happy on February 26, 2017, 06:27:23 PM
Success is a weird thing. I know for a fact that there are fellows on this site that have experienced far more sucess than I. I know some are reluctant to post pictures because they don't want to come off as bragging and that's a shame. I personally am not envious of anyone's success and prefere to keep my score with the turkeys. I know another fellow that went the other way with it. He was getting quite the reputation locally and was known as a flat out turkey slayer. Then the dnr began busting him multiple times. Baiting, trespassing, exceeding his bag limit and hunting after hours were a few of the charges. He had to kill turkeys and he didn't care what he had to do to accomplish that goal. I knew him well as a young man and looked up to him in a way. I learned a valuable lesson. I don't have anyone i put on a pedestal anymore.There are men who are quite good at this game and can give better advise than I and have killed more turkeys than I ever will, straight up and legal. I have to be the best hunter I can be and only gauge myself over my past history in an effort to improve. I will not let my desire to kill one override regulations or my belief in fair chase. Loosing track of how many I have killed is probably the best thing to happen to me. I could probably sit down with a pen and get close to an actual number but I won't do it. I would rather focus on hunting the next one. So in closing I would say to all the new hunters. Take it for what it is worth when you see a fellow with a load of turkey beards or spurs. It's a fellow who has killed a lot of turkeys. They may have been hunted legally or they may not have. That's for them to worry about. Hunt to the best of your ability, hunt safe and do your best to practice fair chase. Enjoy every day of it and when the day comes that you are successful enjoy it. This ain't supposed to be a peeing contest but about hunting one of the greatest game birds out there.
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Good post.
I would have to add up all my birds cause those fall hunts when the limit used to be 6 stacked up a few birds. So I'm not sure exactly how many I've killed. Need to add it up and write it down I guess.
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The pile I have killed is a lot smaller than the pile that have whooped me.
I look at every chance I get to be in God's creation as success. Especially the turkey woods in the spring.
Killing a gobbler is good, calling a gobbler that get killed is great, and calling a gobbler that get someone hooked on the sport is the best in my opinion.
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A lot of great comments that I agree with totally on this thread.
I'm sure there are lots of folks on here who have been asked to do turkey seminars, and there are some for sure turkey gurus as well.
To sum my thoughts up, I am skeptical of most folks telling me how great of a hunter they are. The ones I have respect for are the ones that OTHER people talk about being legit.
I will gladly spend time with someone who was a poor turkey hunter with the right attitude over someone else who wanted everything to be a competition.
To me a successful season is getting whatever youth or beginner hunter I have on birds. I get nuts trying to make it happen. Personally I don't sweat killing my own birds as just one more or less is kinda who cares. I can remember every second of a "students" bird. Often I only have a day w a kid so jake or Longbeard is the same to them n so to me. The smiles equal more (success) than the biggest bird I could ever kill
Quote from: Happy on February 26, 2017, 06:27:23 PM
Success is a weird thing. I know for a fact that there are fellows on this site that have experienced far more sucess than I. I know some are reluctant to post pictures because they don't want to come off as bragging and that's a shame. I personally am not envious of anyone's success and prefere to keep my score with the turkeys. I know another fellow that went the other way with it. He was getting quite the reputation locally and was known as a flat out turkey slayer. Then the dnr began busting him multiple times. Baiting, trespassing, exceeding his bag limit and hunting after hours were a few of the charges. He had to kill turkeys and he didn't care what he had to do to accomplish that goal. I knew him well as a young man and looked up to him in a way. I learned a valuable lesson. I don't have anyone i put on a pedestal anymore.There are men who are quite good at this game and can give better advise than I and have killed more turkeys than I ever will, straight up and legal. I have to be the best hunter I can be and only gauge myself over my past history in an effort to improve. I will not let my desire to kill one override regulations or my belief in fair chase. Loosing track of how many I have killed is probably the best thing to happen to me. I could probably sit down with a pen and get close to an actual number but I won't do it. I would rather focus on hunting the next one. So in closing I would say to all the new hunters. Take it for what it is worth when you see a fellow with a load of turkey beards or spurs. It's a fellow who has killed a lot of turkeys. They may have been hunted legally or they may not have. That's for them to worry about. Hunt to the best of your ability, hunt safe and do your best to practice fair chase. Enjoy every day of it and when the day comes that you are successful enjoy it. This ain't supposed to be a peeing contest but about hunting one of the greatest game birds out there.
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:z-winnersmiley:
As a " new " turkey hunter compared to the majority of y'all I find this post interesting. As with everything I think there are different stages one goes through while progressing through something like this. As a turkey hunter the definition of success varies as one goes through those phases. It seems to be similar to a bell curve. As you progress it takes more to be considered success ( I.e. killing your limit). Then it plateaus and begins to go down hill (while your actual enjoyment goes up) you just enjoy more of the little things about it and introducing it to other people. The season that really got me addicted to turkey hunting I didn't ever kill a bird. Everything flat out whooped my butt that year but I learned a lot and it made me appreciate my success a lot more. Sorry if this has already been stated but that's just my two cents on it. I don't know about y'all but I'm getting might anxious to just be able to get out there and hunt soon!
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Quote from: C.Kimzey95 on February 27, 2017, 10:24:56 AM
As a " new " turkey hunter compared to the majority of y'all I find this post interesting. As with everything I think there are different stages one goes through while progressing through something like this. As a turkey hunter the definition of success varies as one goes through those phases. It seems to be similar to a bell curve. As you progress it takes more to be considered success ( I.e. killing your limit). Then it plateaus and begins to go down hill (while your actual enjoyment goes up) you just enjoy more of the little things about it and introducing it to other people. The season that really got me addicted to turkey hunting I didn't ever kill a bird. Everything flat out whooped my butt that year but I learned a lot and it made me appreciate my success a lot more. Sorry if this has already been stated but that's just my two cents on it. I don't know about y'all but I'm getting might anxious to just be able to get out there and hunt soon!
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some of my best hunts were the toughest or even resulted in the birds beating me. Now I am always out to kill one, but it doesn't always take killing one to make a good day in the woods. Almost everyday in the woods is a good one.
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