I was at BP this morning and grabbed an extra box of LBs while I was there. Got home and realized I picked up the 1 7/8 oz loads with 1050 velocity. I have been shooting the 1 3/4 oz 1200 velocity rounds get amazing results. Ill either shoot them and see how they compare or just take them back and get what I know. I thought Id see what yalls experiences were from one to the other.
Thanks,
It is all about pattern. 150 fps is not going to make a difference unless you buy into the 60 yard advertising.
BP may not take them back, most ammo sales are final. But I believe it's not really going to make that much of a difference
In the gun I use them in(turkeyslayer) the factory briley choke did better than the Indian creek the 1-3/4 liked. Chokes were .675 n the ic was .665. It did matter
I've shot hundreds and hundreds of both 1 3/4 oz and 1 7/8 oz loads, at the range in a variety of chokes, for turkeys and in competition. They both work but one may pattern better with a particular gun/choke. Terminal velocity at 40 yards is just about the same, since the faster shot slows down more quickly than the slower shot.
Thanks,
Clark
Quote from: allaboutshooting on January 07, 2017, 03:43:13 PM
I've shot hundreds and hundreds of both 1 3/4 oz and 1 7/8 oz loads, at the range in a variety of chokes, for turkeys and in competition. They both work but one may pattern better with a particular gun/choke. Terminal velocity at 40 yards is just about the same, since the faster shot slows down more quickly than the slower shot.
Thanks,
Clark
Can you help me understand why the faster shot slows down more quickly since they're the same weight? It seems like if a pellet the same mass started at a faster speed that it would be faster at 40 as well? Thanks in advance Clark.
Quote from: born2hunt on January 07, 2017, 01:00:55 PM
I was at BP this morning and grabbed an extra box of LBs while I was there. Got home and realized I picked up the 1 7/8 oz loads with 1050 velocity. I have been shooting the 1 3/4 oz 1200 velocity rounds get amazing results. Ill either shoot them and see how they compare or just take them back and get what I know. I thought Id see what yalls experiences were from one to the other.
Thanks,
Six of one, half dozen the other. If the gun patterns them well, stick with the heavier payload. There's something to be said for having more lead in the air.
Six of one, half dozen the other. If the gun patterns them well, stick with the heavier payload. There's something to be said for having more lead in the air.
[/quote]
That's pretty much what I was thinking. I'll see how they do tomorrow afternoon. Thanks yall...
QuoteCan you help me understand why the faster shot slows down more quickly since they're the same weight? It seems like if a pellet the same mass started at a faster speed that it would be faster at 40 as well? Thanks in advance Clark.
Maybe. It's a law of physics. The faster a "sphere" is launched, the faster it slows down. So, if you have 2 spheres of equal weight, let's say #6 shot and one is launched at 1200 fps and another at 1000 fps, the first one slows down more quickly than the second one and at 40 yards, they are at just about the same speed or terminal velocity. Consequently, the terminal energy is just about the same as well.
There's another factor that comes in play when you consider shot charges. A shot charge launched below the speed of sound will, all things being equal, produce a more dense and even pattern than one launched above the speed of sound, roughly 1100 fps. Engineers and others who know much more about this subject than I do, tell me that is because the faster shot charge will drop below the speed of sound, prior to 40 yards, and that drop in speed will cause disruption in the charge. I have seen diagrams depicting this disruption.
I hope that makes some sense.
Thanks,
Clark
Very interesting Clark Thanks. Maybe that's why those old white hull htl shells alot of guys still talk about patterned so well. I want to pattern some LBs early this spring before season. I was planning on starting with the heavier payload 1 7/8 first. Most generally I seem to have better patterns with the more lead in the air havier payload shells.
I have read that the slower shells will pattern better than the faster ones. Agree that the type of choke comes into play here.
Actually, I am looking for the 1 7/8ths ounce of #4's myself!!!!
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on January 08, 2017, 07:09:01 AM
Very interesting Clark Thanks. Maybe that's why those old white hull htl shells alot of guys still talk about patterned so well. I want to pattern some LBs early this spring before season. I was planning on starting with the heavier payload 1 7/8 first. Most generally I seem to have better patterns with the more lead in the air havier payload shells.
You're welcome and you're exactly right about the OW shells. Many of us could watch that shot charge exit the muzzle and hit the target. The muzzle velocity is always measured at 3' from a 30" barrel and normally at 68 degrees. A shorter barrel and lower temperatures can really slow down that payload, especially if the shells have been stored in an unheated environment.
I still have some of the OW shells with 1.75 oz of #6 shot and at some point, I want to compare the patterns of those shells with the WLB shells with 1.75 oz of #6 shot. Kind of an "old technology" with "new technology" comparison.
Thanks,
Clark
Quote from: allaboutshooting on January 08, 2017, 11:17:42 AM
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on January 08, 2017, 07:09:01 AM
Very interesting Clark Thanks. Maybe that's why those old white hull htl shells alot of guys still talk about patterned so well. I want to pattern some LBs early this spring before season. I was planning on starting with the heavier payload 1 7/8 first. Most generally I seem to have better patterns with the more lead in the air havier payload shells.
You're welcome and you're exactly right about the OW shells. Many of us could watch that shot charge exit the muzzle and hit the target. The muzzle velocity is always measured at 3' from a 30" barrel and normally at 68 degrees. A shorter barrel and lower temperatures can really slow down that payload, especially if the shells have been stored in an unheated environment.
I still have some of the OW shells with 1.75 oz of #6 shot and at some point, I want to compare the patterns of those shells with the WLB shells with 1.75 oz of #6 shot. Kind of an "old technology" with "new technology" comparison.
Thanks,
Clark
That'll be interesting to hear that comparison . This site's always full of good info ..it's brought my knowledge of turkey Guns and loads over the years up considerably.
Quote from: maytom on January 08, 2017, 10:37:04 AM
I have read that the slower shells will pattern better than the faster ones. Agree that the type of choke comes into play here.
Actually, I am looking for the 1 7/8ths ounce of #4's myself!!!!
I've never read this but have come to the same concussion testing them. As soon as something is labeled "high velocity" it seems they use an awful lot less shot in the load. If you think about it, less shot should mean more speed from a similar loading. If they're juicing up the load powder wise it'll do more damage to the shot with more acceleration.
I could be thinking wrong but I don't think less shot is productive within reason. More shot means more potential density. Yes chokes come into play, sometimes chokes w some loads blow patterns up.
We're talking LBs but the type shot is a major factor too, if other loads ever get tried.
When I get a chance to pattern that L.B.s I'm going with the #6s 1 7/8...most of what I've seemed to hear in the past on the forums here have said most generally to go with the bigger payload. born2hunt...Let us know how the 1 7/8 perform compared to your 1 3/4s...if you get a chance..
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on January 08, 2017, 02:31:42 PM
When I get a chance to pattern that L.B.s I'm going with the #6s 1 7/8...most of what I've seemed to hear in the past on the forums here have said most generally to go with the bigger payload. born2hunt...Let us know how the 1 7/8 perform compared to your 1 3/4s...if you get a chance..
I didn't get to shoot today but I will post the results when I do. I have no doubt they will meet my needs for a hunting pattern and then some, but I cant imagine getting much better than what I got with the 3/4s.
Well I got around to taking a couple of shots and figured I would post the comparison. The 1 7/8 oz load put a nice even 170 in the 10 at 40.
I didnt shoot any 1 3/4s but last year I was averaging in the 200s with 230 being my best. Now it should be mentioned too that last year I was cleaning between shots and this year the gun was dirty. So if all things were equal I could see them maybe doing at least as well. But regardless...I really like the 20" pattern with the 1 7/8s better. So not a real controlled comparison but enough to dismiss any of my concerns.
This was out of a 28" 870 express mag. with an Under Taker tube in case anyone was wondering.
Born2hunt, what size Under Taker choke did you use? Also, is it the same size choke that you used last year?
Thanks in advance, ssteve
Quote from: allaboutshooting on January 07, 2017, 11:48:27 PM
QuoteCan you help me understand why the faster shot slows down more quickly since they're the same weight? It seems like if a pellet the same mass started at a faster speed that it would be faster at 40 as well? Thanks in advance Clark.
Maybe. It's a law of physics. The faster a "sphere" is launched, the faster it slows down. So, if you have 2 spheres of equal weight, let's say #6 shot and one is launched at 1200 fps and another at 1000 fps, the first one slows down more quickly than the second one and at 40 yards, they are at just about the same speed or terminal velocity. Consequently, the terminal energy is just about the same as well.
I'm no physicist or engineer, but I think what Clark is describing is known as the "linear air resistance" hypothesis. It roughly states that the force of air resistance is proportional to the speed of an object is applied in a direction opposite to the object's motion.
So...the faster shot is moving, the more air resistance it encounters. All-the-same, it's a relative thing. The faster shot is still moving faster...
Quote from: born2hunt on February 20, 2017, 12:22:32 AM
Well I got around to taking a couple of shots and figured I would post the comparison. The 1 7/8 oz load put a nice even 170 in the 10 at 40.
I didnt shoot any 1 3/4s but last year I was averaging in the 200s with 230 being my best. Now it should be mentioned too that last year I was cleaning between shots and this year the gun was dirty. So if all things were equal I could see them maybe doing at least as well. But regardless...I really like the 20" pattern with the 1 7/8s better. So not a real controlled comparison but enough to dismiss any of my concerns.
This was out of a 28" 870 express mag. with an Under Taker tube in case anyone was wondering.
Thanks for the post..Glad the 1 7/8s worked out well for you!!
Quote from: SSteve on February 20, 2017, 07:36:47 AM
Born2hunt, what size Under Taker choke did you use? Also, is it the same size choke that you used last year?
Thanks in advance, ssteve
Its a 665, and yes, same from last year.
The innerweb makes my head hurt