Topic for discussion: the new pioneer airbow...
http://www.gameandfishmag.com/ata-show-2016/introducing-the-2016-crosman-pioneer-airbow/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwqMkjYjmtw
At the risk of igniting the old Xbow vs. compound vs. recurve / longbow "discussion", I'm curious as to what others are thinking about this new technology.
I'll go first...
My initial reaction was shaking my head and rolling my eyes, thinking this is another gadget adding to the erosion of sportsmanship, ethics, and fair chase. BUT, after letting my mind open up a little, I have to admit that I am intrigued and not as offended as I originally thought.
I am a bowhunter. I shoot a Mathews compound. I started with a Bear Whitetail in 1982. I never have shot traditional (but I envy those that do). I used to think crossbows were for the unskilled, non dedicated, "looking for an easy way out" crowd. I don't think that anymore. I have seen friends and family enjoy time in the woods with a crossbow. I realize it's still hunting. I realize there is skill in getting the shot, and it doesn't necessarily have to coincide with the skill in making / taking the shot. That becomes a personal choice, in my opinion.
I'm not advocating the use of the airbow during the regular archery seasons for deer - although I wouldn't be too upset. I really don't see that much difference between it and a crossbow, other than it might be safer (cock & decock), easier to use for younger / older shooters, and offer a more efficient means for a follow up or 2nd shot. It would be less cumbersome in a tree, or on the ground waiting for that gobbler.
I think it's game changing technology that is going to make an impact on the hunting industry. IF you are a crossbow hunter now, or thinking about it, or have to use it for physical limitations, etc. - think about this: Why not use the airbow?
Just curious to what others have thought about it...if you even knew about it. I foresee States legalizing this weapon for hunting deer & turkey at least during times when firearms are permitted.
Discuss...
:popcorn:
It'd be fine to be used anywhere outside of archery season.
I'll pass. But I can see where it would appeal to a lot of folks.
I am not big on crossbows still myself. Unless physically disabled that is. No problem with children either. It's a personal choice and there was a day when my compound was questioned. Just personally not a fan of this easier, faster mentality these days. I have shot two deer instinctively. Still with a compound tho. My hat is off to the traditional bow guys but I do enjoy tinkering with a compound.I Am sure this new bow will be a hot item though.
Really don't see how they can call it an airbow since there is no bow involved. Arrow gun would be more appropriate. It would deffinatly be more maneuverable than a crossbow. The bottem line is hunting is a constantly evolving sport. New equipment is constantly being designed and advertised as being the best thing yet. And has hunters everywhere are finding themselves with less time to hunt and less hunting ground available, many are buying into many of the new products that promise easier results. Add into that the fact that hunting shows are preaching the latest technology and showing us the great animals they take using them(even though the average hunter with average hunting ground doesn't have a prayer of killing such animals), and you have a marketing dream! I don't agree with it myself but if it's legal and you want to use it then go for it! I know a longbow shooter who still hates my compound!
I can see where this will have crossbow manufacturers scrambling...
Shoulder-fired (launched) 26" arrow at 450 fps, able to cock with 2 fingers, etc. etc. just might make the crossbow obsolete. I remember the fall hunting catalogs would come, and there might have been 1 page with 3 or 4 crossbows and accessories on it. Now? What, 10 pages??
I'm not interested in hunting with it, but stock options are another thing! Lol
** I believe Maryland is going to make this a legal weapon to hunt with during firearm / muzzleloader seasons. Urban, small parcel hunters might be able to take advantage of this, for sure.
Quote from: Bowguy on July 13, 2016, 07:10:53 PM
It'd be fine to be used anywhere outside of archery season.
Yep... I see no advantage of this weapon over a rifle for hunting, but there is most certainly a huge advantage over a bow (i.e. compound, recurve, etc).
Could be a means to take birds on smaller more residential areas more quietly, and could add some degree of challenge to hunting big game over a rifle. However, I would hate to let loose an arrow by accident in the wrong area though...
Currently, in California, we are allowed to use air rifles, and I am looking at a Benjamin .25 cal to hunt turkeys with. Bird still has to be close, and I would expect taking a bird with an air rifle will still be considerably more challenging than with a shotgun... But it could give me the opportunity to hunt some different areas without disturbing land-owners and leaving a smaller footprint (i.e. no loud BOOM of a shotgun to alert game or other hunters).
For deer, I don't care what one uses so long as they eliminate those snorting glorified goats. It is a poacher's dream though.
I'm not interested in investing for one, it would bother me none if it was allowed in NY as a hunting weapon. To fellow NYs - don't hold your breath on this one. When it comes to conservation efforts, the DEC consistently comes in a day late and dollar short.
All The Way!
Quote from: silvestris on July 13, 2016, 10:55:10 PM
For deer, I don't care what one uses so long as they eliminate those snorting glorified goats. It is a poacher's dream though.
LOL,you sound like me.
:morning:
Pretty cool. I have a compound and a crossbow, so this would be another toy for me. How much for the privelage to own one, with all the gadgets? :camohat:
Cool weapon, but not a bow.
Quote from: lowoctane on July 14, 2016, 09:17:09 AM
:morning:
Pretty cool. I have a compound and a crossbow, so this would be another toy for me. How much for the privelage to own one, with all the gadgets? :camohat:
I see Cabelas has the package for $899.99. Little pricey for me.
Interesting new weapon though. If its legal to use, okay then. The choice to use is an individuals own opinion and desire.
I shot it at the ATA show this past January and it is an interesting weapon indeed. The big discussion has been what states will allow it and where will it fit in. I personally don't have the desire for one but I know there will be a nitch market for them even with the season/use controversy.
Quote from: lindllc on July 14, 2016, 10:14:37 AM
Quote from: lowoctane on July 14, 2016, 09:17:09 AM
:morning:
Pretty cool. I have a compound and a crossbow, so this would be another toy for me. How much for the privelage to own one, with all the gadgets? :camohat:
I see Cabelas has the package for $899.99. Little pricey for me.
Interesting new weapon though. If its legal to use, okay then. The choice to use is an individuals own opinion and desire.
Careful throwing the "O" word around. Some struggle with its meaning. Should've probably used the word "choice" instead. There's less scrutiny that way. :TooFunny:
Quote from: wvmntnhick on July 14, 2016, 02:21:18 PM
Quote from: lindllc on July 14, 2016, 10:14:37 AM
Quote from: lowoctane on July 14, 2016, 09:17:09 AM
:morning:
Pretty cool. I have a compound and a crossbow, so this would be another toy for me. How much for the privelage to own one, with all the gadgets? :camohat:
I see Cabelas has the package for $899.99. Little pricey for me.
Interesting new weapon though. If its legal to use, okay then. The choice to use is an individuals own opinion and desire.
Careful throwing the "O" word around. Some struggle with its meaning. Should've probably used the word "choice" instead. There's less scrutiny that way. :TooFunny:
Duly noted ;D. But wait...I did use the word "choice" at the beginning of the sentence :toothy12:
Quote from: lindllc on July 14, 2016, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: wvmntnhick on July 14, 2016, 02:21:18 PM
Quote from: lindllc on July 14, 2016, 10:14:37 AM
Quote from: lowoctane on July 14, 2016, 09:17:09 AM
:morning:
Pretty cool. I have a compound and a crossbow, so this would be another toy for me. How much for the privelage to own one, with all the gadgets? :camohat:
I see Cabelas has the package for $899.99. Little pricey for me.
Interesting new weapon though. If its legal to use, okay then. The choice to use is an individuals own opinion and desire.
Careful throwing the "O" word around. Some struggle with its meaning. Should've probably used the word "choice" instead. There's less scrutiny that way. :TooFunny:
Duly noted ;D. But wait...I did use the word "choice" at the beginning of the sentence :toothy12:
Touché my dear friend, touché.
Quote from: SteelerFan on July 13, 2016, 09:11:11 PM
I can see where this will have crossbow manufacturers scrambling...
Not as much as you would think...
It is a PCP air system (which is a pre-filled reservoir in the gun)... It requires having a prefilled tank, or hand-pumping that gun. Currently most air compressors will not fill either the tanks or the guns, and most people go to a scuba shop to get the tanks filled...
According to a friend who has a pellet rifle from the same manufacturer, it takes about 1 hour to fill an empty tank, and about 20 minutes to refill a tank after normal shooting...
looks interesting,i would like to play with one but i doubt i would ever own one,and i hunt with a crossbow all fall long for turkeys.i have did this for at least 13 years now,when i first got it i was very limited in the hunting i could do with it.i really didnt even buy it to hunt back then,just something i could shoot in my yard that was accurate to shoot groups..but after seeing how i really liked i started hunting with it as laws would allow.now days here in ky we have a very lengthy season for it and i can also use it during the shotgun season for turkeys.i always get my limit and love taking it.i have been critisized for using it and for this i say,i can shoot a bow,i can hunt with a bow, people that think it is unfair have never fooled with one and dont know.mine is an old excaliber recurve so its 36 inches wide.i can shoot a bow quicker,shoot a follow up shot quicker with a bow,and hit just as good.you get 1 shot with the crossbow,mine is 225 pounds and a long stroke so you have to use a rope cocker to cock this takes time.i can do almost everything better with a bow but where it shines is fall turkey hunting when its cold.you can sit up a fieldpod and have the crossbow pointing out of the blind.it minimizes movements,but you still have to know the range and everything else you would with a bow,its not a gun like people compare it to you still got to know the range and 50 is the max i would shoot at an animal with it.but for fall turkey hunting i love it.this new airbow will probably catch a bunch of slack,the same way i have over the years.only now are people starting to accept the crossbow more,so it would def take time for them to accept this.
Received in this mornings email. I find it rather amusing as the ATA didn't mind taking their $$ for both a shooting area and regular sized booth at the ATA show this past January and now make this statement. :z-twocents:
WASHINGTON — At the request of its members and representatives of state wildlife agencies, the Archery Trade Association (ATA) Board of Directors has released a position statement concerning airbows. The statement was drafted immediately following the organization's summer board meeting in Washington, DC, July 11-12.
The ATA's full position statement on airbows is below:
POSITION STATEMENT ON AIRBOWS
July 16, 2016
The ATA was asked by its members and representatives of state wildlife agencies for its opinion regarding whether airbows constitute archery equipment. While the ATA certainly recognizes the airbow to be an innovative piece of shooting equipment, the airbow nevertheless lacks basic components of standard archery equipment (e.g., a string system and limbs). For this reason, the ATA does not consider airbows to be archery equipment.
In addition, the airbow (unlike archery equipment) is not subject to federal excise tax, the basic funding mechanism for state wildlife agency activities, which means no portion of the proceeds from airbow purchases contribute to the state wildlife conservation activities supported by Pittman Robertson funds – at least not to the ATA's knowledge. As a consequence, airbows do not appear to be treated as archery equipment by the Internal Revenue Service or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
Currently, state wildlife agencies are considering if airbows should be included in hunting seasons and, if so, the seasons in which airbows belong. In general, the ATA leaves the hunting seasons and regulations governing the use of hunting equipment to each state's wildlife agency and its hunters. Yet ATA also strongly supports the long-standing traditions of fair-chase hunting and equal opportunity for all hunters.
About the ATA
The Archery Trade Association (ATA) is the organization for manufacturers, retailers, distributors, sales representatives and others working in the archery and bowhunting industry. The ATA has served its members since 1953. It is dedicated to making the industry profitable by decreasing business overhead, reducing taxes and government regulation, and increasing participation in archery and bowhunting. The organization also owns and operates the ATA Trade Show, the archery and bowhunting industry's largest and longest-running trade show worldwide.
I don't mind one bit , I do understand peoples that are for and against it, if a product can be marketed and sold the states will allow it . Anything to generate funds and tax dollars. But it is still hunting this ill take mine easier crowd will still ha e to get out of the truck. I know many that have bought x bows and very few have killed with them. Just go further than a half a mile from the truck and all will still be the same.
Quote from: hotspur on July 22, 2016, 01:59:36 PM
I don't mind one bit , I do understand peoples that are for and against it, if a product can be marketed and sold the states will allow it . Anything to generate funds and tax dollars. But it is still hunting this ill take mine easier crowd will still ha e to get out of the truck. I know many that have bought x bows and very few have killed with them. Just go further than a half a mile from the truck and all will still be the same.
X2. I've got a crossbow. Well, 2 actually. I bought one for my father and uncle to use at the camp. They hunted with it some last year. Neither killed a deer with it to my recollection. I've only used mine on windy days where holding a vertical bow steady was going to be a rather difficult job and used it once during the late rifle season. Did manage to kill one with it in the late season but it was by no means a cake walk. I'm not saying that air bows belong in the archery season but it's certainly not going to make a large scale change in the demise of the deer population. Heck, back home, if they want to kill a deer, they're going to grab a rifle anyway. Find a place to make them legal and go with it. Personally, I think they'd fit in just fine during the general firearms and black powder seasons.
Quote from: wvmntnhick on July 22, 2016, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: hotspur on July 22, 2016, 01:59:36 PM
I don't mind one bit , I do understand peoples that are for and against it, if a product can be marketed and sold the states will allow it . Anything to generate funds and tax dollars. But it is still hunting this ill take mine easier crowd will still ha e to get out of the truck. I know many that have bought x bows and very few have killed with them. Just go further than a half a mile from the truck and all will still be the same.
X2. I've got a crossbow. Well, 2 actually. I bought one for my father and uncle to use at the camp. They hunted with it some last year. Neither killed a deer with it to my recollection. I've only used mine on windy days where holding a vertical bow steady was going to be a rather difficult job and used it once during the late rifle season. Did manage to kill one with it in the late season but it was by no means a cake walk. I'm not saying that air bows belong in the archery season but it's certainly not going to make a large scale change in the demise of the deer population. Heck, back home, if they want to kill a deer, they're going to grab a rifle anyway. Find a place to make them legal and go with it. Personally, I think they'd fit in just fine during the general firearms and black powder seasons.
Well said. I hear those one shot high powered rifle sighting in shots o'dark thirty when I'm bow hunting in NY. If someone wants a deer that badly, a rifle will be used regardless the time of the year.
All The Way!
I agree with everything for the most part. Most poachers are gonna use a rifle. However around here we have a few known fellows that the DNR has been chasing that have been shooting deer from their vehicles with crossbows. Not blaming the crossbows cause they are merely the tool of choice. The poachers are the problem. I would feel safe saying if we could seriously curtail poaching then seasons could be a lot more liberal with what they could allow weapons wise. It's a tough battle and the DNR is seriously understaffed and short on funds. Poachers are thieves pure and simple. To selfish and lazy to play the game according to the rules. As far as deer are concerned a two year old is above average and if it breaks 100 inches then it well above average. I shot a small ten point last last year with a bow and dug a .22 bullet out of his neck.
Quote from: Happy on July 23, 2016, 10:06:00 AM
I agree with everything for the most part. Most poachers are gonna use a rifle. However around here we have a few known fellows that the DNR has been chasing that have been shooting deer from their vehicles with crossbows. Not blaming the crossbows cause they are merely the tool of choice. The poachers are the problem. I would feel safe saying if we could seriously curtail poaching then seasons could be a lot more liberal with what they could allow weapons wise. It's a tough battle and the DNR is seriously understaffed and short on funds. Poachers are thieves pure and simple. To selfish and lazy to play the game according to the rules. As far as deer are concerned a two year old is above average and if it breaks 100 inches then it well above average. I shot a small ten point last last year with a bow and dug a .22 bullet out of his neck.
Huh?! Seems someone failed "Poaching Shot Placement 101." Maybe the light wasn't bright enough to find the eyes.