It's still 10 months away, but next April I'm headed for Nebraska on a turkey hunt. The hunt is with an outfitter with food and lodging provided but the hunting will be self-guided. What do you all think about tipping in this situation? Obviously the cook should get a tip, but as far as everything else? The outfitter is surely charging what he needs to pay his expenses and still make a profit. And since we won't have a guide, is there really any reason to tip anyone other than the cook? Just looking for opinions on this!
Yes. Don't be that guy.
Even if you're self-guided the outfitter will still have fuel cost of driving you around to show you the farms you're hunting, he'll still probably be glassing and roosting birds while you're hunting on other farms, and he should be doing the best he possibly can to ensure you have a good hunt. All of that deserves a tip.
10% is standard. As a former guide, there is nothing more aggravating than working hard for a client whether it's behind the scenes or in front, to receive chump change at the end of it.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 04, 2016, 06:35:56 PM
Yes. Don't be that guy.
Even if you're self-guided the outfitter will still have fuel cost of driving you around to show you the farms you're hunting, he'll still probably be glassing and roosting birds while you're hunting on other farms, and he should be doing the best he possibly can to ensure you have a good hunt. All of that deserves a tip.
10% is standard. As a former guide, there is nothing more aggravating than working hard for a client whether it's behind the scenes or in front, to receive chump change at the end of it.
Agree...I've been on several hunts now both guided/self guided and always tip between $100-$150. I've been fortunate to hunt with some great outfitters and these guys work hard all year to get their clients on birds. They deserve a tip!
Heck... Down in the city you tip the doorman, the guy who calls for the cab, the luggage dude, etc. Guide definitely deserves the tip
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 04, 2016, 06:35:56 PM
Yes. Don't be that guy.
Even if you're self-guided the outfitter will still have fuel cost of driving you around to show you the farms you're hunting, he'll still probably be glassing and roosting birds while you're hunting on other farms, and he should be doing the best he possibly can to ensure you have a good hunt. All of that deserves a tip.
10% is standard. As a former guide, there is nothing more aggravating than working hard for a client whether it's behind the scenes or in front, to receive chump change at the end of it.
I agree. Last year in Ohio, I was self guided but still left the owner a good tip because he drove us all over and was just a good guy. They will also be happier to have you back in future years.
No doubt the correct thing to do.
I would wait and see how the hunting goes... If he puts you on birds, and makes some effort to make your stay more enjoyable, then tip him. If he hands you a map and says have fun, save your money.
I have been on guided hunting trips that I have not tipped on, and had I not been invited as part of a group would have refused to pay on... Been with fishing guides where the fishing was terrible (due to circumstances outside of the guides control) and we tipped him well (of course that same guide offered us a free second trip due to our lack of success and was extremely reluctant to take our tip).
Personally, I think we as a society have become a bit carried away with tipping. This is an outfitter, and his job is to provide a nice place to stay, with food and lodging and the opportunity at birds.
I have an optometry office, and my girls work quite hard, and show patients a huge degree of patience and personalized service in fitting frames and lenses with them... None of them has ever been offered a tip for this extremely personalized service... But, I digress...
Quote from: Marc on June 05, 2016, 01:26:57 AM
I would wait and see how the hunting goes... If he puts you on birds, and makes some effort to make your stay more enjoyable, then tip him. If he hands you a map and says have fun, save your money.
I agree with this. We went on a semi guided hunt in Texas and the guy had us follow them out in our vehicle showed us the pasture and said good luck. I was more than happy with that but he definitely didn't go out of his way to get us on birds. If this was a fully guided hunt I would have tipped my guide, but I think on a non guided hunt you are paying the outfitter for what you get right? I did tip the cook.
If you are self guided I feel your payment for the hunt should suffice. I would hope the outfitter is charging you enough to cover his expenses and make a profit. Tipping the cook should be in order if the food is good. Maybe offer a gift of a nice call or something the outfitter will remember you by. This of course he does what he says and makes you feel like you had a good hunt.
I have been on a lot of hunts and not all were good. Some exceeded my expectations while others left me wishing I were anywhere but there at that time. Tipping is a personal choice, do what you think is right.
I agree with most of the responses on this post. I almost always tip the guide as well as the cook staff. Even if it 's semi-guided they usually provide you with some support to help make your hunt pleasurable.
I can tell you how not to tip, had a client kill 3 birds in a day and a half in Ne. and he tipped me 50 bux.
People tip waiters 20 percent all the time, this may be high for non guided but certainly not for guided, and absolutely tip based on there effort not success!
Guess I just don't understand. I've hunted with many different outfitters, guided and unguided, never gave a tip. All the guides I kno are being paid and paid well. It's figured in the price of the hunt. If I pay for a 3 day hunt and tag out the first day and leave, the outfitters profit just doubled if not tripled plus the guide got paid for all 3 days and only worked one day.. Why tip???
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 05, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
Guess I just don't understand. I've hunted with many different outfitters, guided and unguided, never gave a tip. All the guides I kno are being paid and paid well. It's figured in the price of the hunt. If I pay for a 3 day hunt and tag out the first day and leave, the outfitters profit just doubled if not tripled plus the guide got paid for all 3 days and only worked one day.. Why tip???
Some guides get paid a nominal daily fee but most work exclusively for tips.
ALL guides depend on tips.
The price of the hunt covers lease costs, food/lodging, and access to quality animals.
It does not cover the effort exhausted to get you an animal, the fuel costs to roost birds/glass them while you're hunting other farms, or the skill/knowledge/calling abilities the guides employ to facilitate your success.
Guides frequently are the difference between success and failure. If you were "that good" you'd be hunting public on a DIY trip where you don't require access or assistance to be successful in a limited window of time. They deserve to be recognized and compensated for the skill they demonstrate, the effort they put into success, and the weather conditions they have to endure while doing it.
It's the nature of the business. I can assure you, you were not discussed in high regard after you left a camp where you did not tip.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 06, 2016, 11:39:45 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 05, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
Guess I just don't understand. I've hunted with many different outfitters, guided and unguided, never gave a tip. All the guides I kno are being paid and paid well. It's figured in the price of the hunt. If I pay for a 3 day hunt and tag out the first day and leave, the outfitters profit just doubled if not tripled plus the guide got paid for all 3 days and only worked one day.. Why tip???
Some guides get paid a nominal daily fee but most work exclusively for tips.
ALL guides depend on tips.
The price of the hunt covers lease costs, food/lodging, and access to quality animals.
It does not cover the effort exhausted to get you an animal, the fuel costs to roost birds/glass them while you're hunting other farms, or the skill/knowledge/calling abilities the guides employ to facilitate your success.
Guides frequently are the difference between success and failure. If you were "that good" you'd be hunting public on a DIY trip where you don't require access or assistance to be successful in a limited window of time. They deserve to be recognized and compensated for the skill they demonstrate, the effort they put into success, and the weather conditions they have to endure while doing it.
It's the nature of the business. I can assure you, you were not discussed in high regard after you left a camp where you did not tip.
Ummmmmm yeah ^^^^ what he said
My wife sometimes gets mad at me (when I do not tip), but my motto is the 15-20% is a guideline. I left a $10 tip the other day on a $8 lunch meal and I have left 0 on $50 meals. If I get effort, I tip. If I get no effort, I leave no tip and everywhere in between.
Took my Dad on a Pronghorn hunt and we tipped the guide very generously. He did not put in all that much effort, but was very personable in accommodating my dad and making it a fun hunt for him.
From all your postings on here, you'll know what to do when you get there.
Went to South Dakota a few years ago with high expectations. Was invited as part of a group from work and was assured the homework had been done on the outfitter. Hunted all day for three days and never saw a turkey. Heard two on the second morning way across a highway on another property. Saw no sign and no one in our group killed a turkey. A couple of guys with us were novices but the rest of us are fairly well seasoned turkey hunters used to hunting and killing MS public land birds. Outfitter told a tale about a snowstorm a couple weeks prior that cause the birds to move off his properties. I tipped the cook well but the outfitter got no tip from me. Saw a couple years later where he'd been in trouble for trespassing and baiting on numerous occasions. Haven't gone on another hunt since without checking into the operation myself. But generally speaking, I believe in tipping the guide/outfitter. This year in Texas me and two buddies tagged out (ranch had a 2 bird limit) in one day and our guide got a tip on the side from us in addition to the tip pot for all guides that we also contributed to.
Does the etiquette change if the guide is also the owner? I don't go on many paid hunts, but I've heard in other lines of work you don't typically tip of the person is self employed. They set the price necessary to cover the costs of the services, including their income.
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Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 06, 2016, 11:39:45 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 05, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
Guess I just don't understand. I've hunted with many different outfitters, guided and unguided, never gave a tip. All the guides I kno are being paid and paid well. It's figured in the price of the hunt. If I pay for a 3 day hunt and tag out the first day and leave, the outfitters profit just doubled if not tripled plus the guide got paid for all 3 days and only worked one day.. Why tip???
Some guides get paid a nominal daily fee but most work exclusively for tips.
ALL guides depend on tips.
The price of the hunt covers lease costs, food/lodging, and access to quality animals.
It does not cover the effort exhausted to get you an animal, the fuel costs to roost birds/glass them while you're hunting other farms, or the skill/knowledge/calling abilities the guides employ to facilitate your success.
Guides frequently are the difference between success and failure. If you were "that good" you'd be hunting public on a DIY trip where you don't require access or assistance to be successful in a limited window of time. They deserve to be recognized and compensated for the skill they demonstrate, the effort they put into success, and the weather conditions they have to endure while doing it.
It's the nature of the business. I can assure you, you were not discussed in high regard after you left a camp where you did not tip.
You must be workin for the wrong outfitters... Not only have the guides I've hunted with been paid well on a daily basis but they have contracts where the owner has to guarantee them "x" number of days pay whether he has hunters or not... Now I can assure you I've never been NOT welcome back in anyone's camp that I wanted to return too.. Furthermore I don't think you need to question my ability based on who I hunt with or where I hunt. I assure I hunt plenty of public land and very successfully I might add!!
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 06, 2016, 11:39:45 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 05, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
Guess I just don't understand. I've hunted with many different outfitters, guided and unguided, never gave a tip. All the guides I kno are being paid and paid well. It's figured in the price of the hunt. If I pay for a 3 day hunt and tag out the first day and leave, the outfitters profit just doubled if not tripled plus the guide got paid for all 3 days and only worked one day.. Why tip???
Some guides get paid a nominal daily fee but most work exclusively for tips.
ALL guides depend on tips.
The price of the hunt covers lease costs, food/lodging, and access to quality animals.
It does not cover the effort exhausted to get you an animal, the fuel costs to roost birds/glass them while you're hunting other farms, or the skill/knowledge/calling abilities the guides employ to facilitate your success.
Guides frequently are the difference between success and failure. If you were "that good" you'd be hunting public on a DIY trip where you don't require access or assistance to be successful in a limited window of time. They deserve to be recognized and compensated for the skill they demonstrate, the effort they put into success, and the weather conditions they have to endure while doing it.
It's the nature of the business. I can assure you, you were not discussed in high regard after you left a camp where you did not tip.
Agreed. Recognize also, the difference between the outfitter and the guide. The Outfitter owns the operation, he gets the money you pay for your hunt and pays for leases, etc and whatever the guide gets paid.
A turkey guide can only hunt 1 or 2 guys at at a time. he gets paid by the outfitter for the hunt. If he gets you tagged out in 1 day on a 3 day hunt he doesn't get any extra from the outfitter and he can't just make a call and get another client into camp.
Tip your guides fellas. They have a few weeks a season to make money...
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 06, 2016, 08:07:19 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 06, 2016, 11:39:45 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 05, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
Guess I just don't understand. I've hunted with many different outfitters, guided and unguided, never gave a tip. All the guides I kno are being paid and paid well. It's figured in the price of the hunt. If I pay for a 3 day hunt and tag out the first day and leave, the outfitters profit just doubled if not tripled plus the guide got paid for all 3 days and only worked one day.. Why tip???
Some guides get paid a nominal daily fee but most work exclusively for tips.
ALL guides depend on tips.
The price of the hunt covers lease costs, food/lodging, and access to quality animals.
It does not cover the effort exhausted to get you an animal, the fuel costs to roost birds/glass them while you're hunting other farms, or the skill/knowledge/calling abilities the guides employ to facilitate your success.
Guides frequently are the difference between success and failure. If you were "that good" you'd be hunting public on a DIY trip where you don't require access or assistance to be successful in a limited window of time. They deserve to be recognized and compensated for the skill they demonstrate, the effort they put into success, and the weather conditions they have to endure while doing it.
It's the nature of the business. I can assure you, you were not discussed in high regard after you left a camp where you did not tip.
You must be workin for the wrong outfitters... Not only have the guides I've hunted with been paid well on a daily basis but they have contracts where the owner has to guarantee them "x" number of days pay whether he has hunters or not... Now I can assure you I've never been NOT welcome back in anyone's camp that I wanted to return too.. Furthermore I don't think you need to question my ability based on who I hunt with or where I hunt. I assure I hunt plenty of public land and very successfully I might add!!
They may have been polite enough to have you back, but I promise non one was 'fighting' to get the guy that doesn't tip no matter what.
Tell me how the outfitter's profit doubles or triples if you tag out early?
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 06, 2016, 08:07:19 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 06, 2016, 11:39:45 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 05, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
Guess I just don't understand. I've hunted with many different outfitters, guided and unguided, never gave a tip. All the guides I kno are being paid and paid well. It's figured in the price of the hunt. If I pay for a 3 day hunt and tag out the first day and leave, the outfitters profit just doubled if not tripled plus the guide got paid for all 3 days and only worked one day.. Why tip???
Some guides get paid a nominal daily fee but most work exclusively for tips.
ALL guides depend on tips.
The price of the hunt covers lease costs, food/lodging, and access to quality animals.
It does not cover the effort exhausted to get you an animal, the fuel costs to roost birds/glass them while you're hunting other farms, or the skill/knowledge/calling abilities the guides employ to facilitate your success.
Guides frequently are the difference between success and failure. If you were "that good" you'd be hunting public on a DIY trip where you don't require access or assistance to be successful in a limited window of time. They deserve to be recognized and compensated for the skill they demonstrate, the effort they put into success, and the weather conditions they have to endure while doing it.
It's the nature of the business. I can assure you, you were not discussed in high regard after you left a camp where you did not tip.
You must be workin for the wrong outfitters... Not only have the guides I've hunted with been paid well on a daily basis but they have contracts where the owner has to guarantee them "x" number of days pay whether he has hunters or not... Now I can assure you I've never been NOT welcome back in anyone's camp that I wanted to return too.. Furthermore I don't think you need to question my ability based on who I hunt with or where I hunt. I assure I hunt plenty of public land and very successfully I might add!!
Little defensive there, fella.
No guide in the history of guides wants anything to do w client who doesn't tip. No quality guide is going to work hard for a client who doesn't.
If you truly believe your own line of bullsh!t about tipping, please go into a hunt camp on your next trip and disclose that you refuse to tip before the hunt starts and before guides are assigned. See what you get stuck with.
Well let's start with he don t have to feed me or put me up fior 2 or 3 days. Secondly the guide, who is getting paid for 3 days doesmt gave to work on those days... You guys act like thee outfitters are just barely getting by which isn't the case.. Most of there leases are paid for after the first group of hunters leave, assuming they don't guide deer hunts, if they do then the turkey hunts is pure profit. Guides make the business, any successful outfitter is not gonna have guides working for tips.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 06, 2016, 09:15:31 PM
If you truly believe your own line of bullsh!t, please go into a hunt camp on your next trip and disclose that you refuse to tip before the hunt starts and before guides are assigned. See what you get stuck with.
I like that idea a lot.
Try it at the restaurant if you aren't gonna tip their too/either.
You guys either have a weird sense of humor or are extremely stupid!!!!! I don't know which it is......
Comparing a waitress or waiter to a hunting guide is like comparing apples to oranges... Maybe y'all should try hunting with better outfitters... Once again I don't know!!!
Well then go for it Diamond Jim. Next time you drag your carcass into camp as a sport, make sure everyone knows you aren't gonna tip up front.
I can recommend some top-notch outfitters where tips are NOT expected if y'all would like.
Just out of curiosity, what would you say is the average price of a 3 day, 2 bird hunt with an outfitter that doesn't expect his guides to get tipped?
Not sure what kind of hotels you get put up at on your hunt, maybe a Ritz Carlton. If we use kinda an average number and say $100 for room if you aren't at a camp/lodge and let's say $50 a day for food and drink, and that buck fitty doubles his profit you aren't hunting with an outfitter whose guides are making bank.
since you have seen guide contracts, what is a guide making on a 3 day hunt on a per gun basis?
The ones I specifically know of are making $150/day. With 9 days guaranteed. 1x1 hunting.
I have never heard of a guide making less than $100/day.
Personally I hate the whole concept of tipping. If the guy needs to get paid add it to the price of the hunt. I have X amount of money to spend on hunts each year and I hate to pay X and then be expected to add in $100 more because the guy worked hard. If you are a good guide or have a good guide ADD IT TO THE DANG PRICE of the hunt.
Just my 2 cents. We tip the duck guys we hunt with each year but still Id rather they just add it to the price of the hunt up front
Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
Sent from my phone sucka
Quote from: g8rvet on June 06, 2016, 03:36:30 PM
My wife sometimes gets mad at me (when I do not tip), but my motto is the 15-20% is a guideline. I left a $10 tip the other day on a $8 lunch meal and I have left 0 on $50 meals. If I get effort, I tip. If I get no effort, I leave no tip and everywhere in between.
I would get along with you just fine...
As far as tipping a waitress or waiter I will always tip though... I have left some tips for 2ยข, cause I want the person I am tipping to realize I was NOT happy with the service.
Tipping was supposed to be an extra amount given for exceptional service beyond what is normally expected... Now it seems were are expected to tip exceptionally for expected service.
I do not tip my doctor, or my mechanic... But I sure as heck send them more business when they do a good job...
Typically, I tip a guide, and it is always based on effort and honesty. We have had guides take us out for an 8 hour day trip for 14 hours... They got tipped well. I have had fishing guides call it a day after two hours for a 1/2 day trip; no tip.
Duck hunting Canada, our guide (who dropped us off as we requested) came to pick us up around 9 am so that we would not miss breakfast... We explained we still had birds working and were not done, but he insisted on the fact that we make it back for breakfast... NO tip.
I work hard for my money, and if I am going to tip, I expect others to work hard for my money as well.
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 06, 2016, 10:18:36 PM
The ones I specifically know of are making $150/day. With 9 days guaranteed. 1x1 hunting.
I have never heard of a guide making less than $100/day.
$150 day/ 15 hours= $10/hour. Hard physical work, outside in the rain, snow, sleet, sleeping on a cot, away from their wives & kids. Having to deal with all kinds of personalities on a week-to week basis, and biting your tongue when a doozy comes along. C'mon buddy, if you can't afford or are opposed to the idea of a tip, hunt in your backyard or on the public land close to home. Same as going to a restaurant, if you don't want to leave a tip, cook at home or order takeout. ::)
You guys are hilarious.... I've never hunted 15hrs with a reputable outfitter. If guys know their birds, like they should, which is why you are paying them in the first place. Most of the guided hunts I've been on, which isn't many, have been over in 3hrs or less... $150/3hrs=$50/hr which isn't bad for doing something you live to do!!!
Sounds to me like some of y'all need to dig a little deeper in your pockets and find better quality outfitters or stay in your backyard or public land!!! Once again if you need some referrals to top notch guide service Id be glad to share info!!!
Quote from: Uncle Nicky on June 07, 2016, 07:15:08 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 06, 2016, 10:18:36 PM
The ones I specifically know of are making $150/day. With 9 days guaranteed. 1x1 hunting.
I have never heard of a guide making less than $100/day.
$150 day/ 15 hours= $10/hour. Hard physical work, outside in the rain, snow, sleet, sleeping on a cot, away from their wives & kids. Having to deal with all kinds of personalities on a week-to week basis, and biting your tongue when a doozy comes along. C'mon buddy, if you can't afford or are opposed to the idea of a tip, hunt in your backyard or on the public land close to home. Same as going to a restaurant, if you don't want to leave a tip, cook at home or order takeout. ::)
This. Exactly this.
Day starts at 04:00. Can run until 20:00 or 21:00 if you get caught near a roost and have to wait til full dark to walk out. Then dinner, and while you sound like a peach to hang out with Roost, it's still 'work' and having to be 'on' and entertain you.
If you can't afford a tip, stay home.
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 07, 2016, 08:10:56 AM
You guys are hilarious.... I've never hunted 15hrs with a reputable outfitter. If guys know their birds, like they should, which is why you are paying them in the first place. Most of the guided hunts I've been on, which isn't many, have been over in 3hrs or less... $150/3hrs=$50/hr which isn't bad for doing something you live to do!!!
Yeah, and then they just go home and do other stuff, right?
You are a piece of work.
Quote from: spaightlabs on June 07, 2016, 08:37:57 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 07, 2016, 08:10:56 AM
You guys are hilarious.... I've never hunted 15hrs with a reputable outfitter. If guys know their birds, like they should, which is why you are paying them in the first place. Most of the guided hunts I've been on, which isn't many, have been over in 3hrs or less... $150/3hrs=$50/hr which isn't bad for doing something you live to do!!!
Yeah, and then they just go home and do other stuff, right?
You are a piece of work.
You sir, can call me what you want but I assure I have never hunted with a guide that didnt enjoy hunting with me. Any knowledgable guide appreciates a knowledgable hunter. I do quite a bit of guiding every year and have never accepted a dime for it, because its something I love to do. Now maybe a self assessment on your part might be in order for you to understand why "your" guides are having to work so hard...You know if a guy misses 2 or 3 or cant sit still and spooks birds off before the shot, then maybe a tip is in order. Fortunately, I dont have that problem!! Like I mentioned earlier I have had very few guided hunts, mostly self-guided or semi-guided whatever you would like to call it but I have had several offers to come and be a guide for different outfitters. So, yes maybe I am a piece of work as you say.. I could care less what you think of me because I have already formed an opinion of you too. However I will keep that to myself because I was raised better...Good day sir!!!
Not counting pre-hunt work, if they work 20 minutes, or three days, they get paid the same.
Roost - I'll take you up on your offer: guide me for free next year, and get me on a bird in the first three hours.
Another note about it being fun, and not work. I booked a hunt for next year. The season runs through the end of May, but the outfitter/guide doesn't book hunts after mid-May. Curious, I asked why. His response: "after four weeks I get sick of it". All of the pre-season scouting, scouting during the hunts, late to bed and early to rise for four weeks straight, I can understand that. It's hard work.
Quote from: dejake on June 07, 2016, 11:29:32 AM
Another note about it being fun, and not work. I booked a hunt for next year. The season runs through the end of May, but the outfitter/guide doesn't book hunts after mid-May. Curious, I asked why. His response: "after four weeks I get sick of it". All of the pre-season scouting, scouting during the hunts, late to bed and early to rise for four weeks straight, I can understand that. It's hard work.
HaHa! Thats no work! It's Turkey Hunting at it's finest!!!! :funnyturkey:
Why'd this become such a big debate? If the guide does an exceptional job an exceptional tip is in order. If a guide does a horrible job then a horrible tip is in order. I don't care if guiding is your job, if you're horrible at it, you're not getting tips and it won't be your job long.
Also I read some posts where guys said guides only have 1 month to make their money. If these guys aren't making anymore than $150 a day for 30 straight days, that's $4650 in a month. Let's say they guide 15 guys in that month that paid $1500 for the hunt and they all tip 20%. That's still only $9,150 in tips and wages. I saw where others said said "if a guide finishes early with his clients what does he go home and do something else?" YES if a guide finishes with his client on the first day he probably can go do something else because there is no way he is a turkey hunting guru on 10 grand a year.
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I honestly didn't intend to start this kind of p*#^ing match when I started this thread! I was asking a question about what to me is a somewhat murky issue. I know that tipping a guide is expected (based on service received of course). I was, and still am, pondering the self guided deal. When I go to a restaurant I tip according to the service I get. But it's much easier to tip well if the food is good. But the waitress has no control over the food quality or the atmosphere of the restaurant. The owner of the restaurant must assure that the quality both the food and atmosphere are good. But I have never once ate a good meal and then asked to see the owner of the restaurant so I could give him/her a tip. I bet most on here have not done this either. We all just assume that the price that they are charging for the meal is enough to cover the cost of it and still put some jingle in their pocket. (If not then they're not in business very long). I have never been shy about tipping those that go the extra mile when they don't have to. But I am on the fence about tipping someone who is just doing the job that he advertised he would do for a set price.
Seems to me there is some confussion of a guide and an outfitter. An outfitter is the owner. He can also be the guide or a guide. I am a guide for an outfitter. I work and do anything within my ability to make sure the person(s) i am guiding get an opportunity. I also do this for a tip. That is my pay. I do not get any monetary compensation from the outfitter. I get free meals and lodging and a place to hunt when/if i have time. Clients come first and i love to do it.
Quote from: snapper1982 on June 07, 2016, 07:20:20 PM
Seems to me there is some confussion of a guide and an outfitter. An outfitter is the owner. He can also be the guide or a guide. I am a guide for an outfitter. I work and do anything within my ability to make sure the person(s) i am guiding get an opportunity. I also do this for a tip. That is my pay. I do not get any monetary compensation from the outfitter. I get free meals and lodging and a place to hunt when/if i have time. Clients come first and i love to do it.
So basically you are doing because you get to hunt... This brings up a sore spot with me.. I'll NEVER hunt with an outfitter that let's his guides hunt before all his clients are finished.. In my opinion this is wrong, wrong , wrong.. I'm not bashing you Snapper but this is just how I feel... I have guys that come to KY to hunt with me, free of charge, and I won't even shoot a bird until they are done.
Quote from: dejake on June 07, 2016, 11:20:13 AM
Roost - I'll take you up on your offer: guide me for free next year, and get me on a bird in the first three hours.
I can make it happen!!! I like a good hunt swap, what of you have to offer? I got references, if needed!!
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 07, 2016, 06:58:11 PM
I honestly didn't intend to start this kind of p*#^ing match when I started this thread! I was asking a question about what to me is a somewhat murky issue. I know that tipping a guide is expected (based on service received of course). I was, and still am, pondering the self guided deal. When I go to a restaurant I tip according to the service I get. But it's much easier to tip well if the food is good. But the waitress has no control over the food quality or the atmosphere of the restaurant. The owner of the restaurant must assure that the quality both the food and atmosphere are good. But I have never once ate a good meal and then asked to see the owner of the restaurant so I could give him/her a tip. I bet most on here have not done this either. We all just assume that the price that they are charging for the meal is enough to cover the cost of it and still put some jingle in their pocket. (If not then they're not in business very long). I have never been shy about tipping those that go the extra mile when they don't have to. But I am on the fence about tipping someone who is just doing the job that he advertised he would do for a set price.
I think that most agree, self-guided is discetionary, but an actual guide who is with you most of the day is probably depending upon a tip. Just my $02 on the subject, but if you go on a self-guided hunt and the outfitter who set it up for you is in contact throughout the day, helps with suggestions on lodging & food, maybe takes you out for lunch or dinner and shows real interest in helping you fill tags, it would definitely not hurt his feelings if you were to give him a little something to show your appreciation for a job well done, I have never seen anyone turn the money down. Hope this helps?
Well hopefully you have researched the outfitters and have such a good time that when it comes time to tip there will not be any doubt about tipping the guy .
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 07, 2016, 07:58:58 PM
Quote from: snapper1982 on June 07, 2016, 07:20:20 PM
Seems to me there is some confussion of a guide and an outfitter. An outfitter is the owner. He can also be the guide or a guide. I am a guide for an outfitter. I work and do anything within my ability to make sure the person(s) i am guiding get an opportunity. I also do this for a tip. That is my pay. I do not get any monetary compensation from the outfitter. I get free meals and lodging and a place to hunt when/if i have time. Clients come first and i love to do it.
So basically you are doing because you get to hunt... This brings up a sore spot with me.. I'll NEVER hunt with an outfitter that let's his guides hunt before all his clients are finished.. In my opinion this is wrong, wrong , wrong.. I'm not bashing you Snapper but this is just how I feel... I have guys that come to KY to hunt with me, free of charge, and I won't even shoot a bird until they are done.
No i am not doing it because i get to hunt. I do it because i love to help others. So i should sit out the whole season and not hunt at all? If you had 60 birds and 3 clients per week every week of the season. They can kill 2 birds each. So that leaves an excess of 36 birds that they can not kill. You would sit out the whole season? We dont. We take the clients and make sure they get birds. We do not hunt while clients are in camp and still hunting. If they tag out and we have time we then will hunt for an afternoon or morning or day or what ever little bit of time we do get to hunt. Bottom line we all love to hunt and that is why we do it. We have access to enough birds to cover the clients and have a huge left over. That is why i dont have a issue with it. I would have an issue if he booked so many clients that it would require every known bird be killed then there would be a huge issue.
It is the same way with the guy that Hookedspur hunted with up here, that outfitter that you know. He allows his guides to hunt if they dont have a client to guide.
Re-read my post...No, you should not sit out the whole season, but clients should come first. In other words, I guess its alright to let guides hunt AFTER all clients are done. I've just seen too many times guys pay for a 2 bird hunt and end up with 1 or none and then come to find out the all the guides have already killed 1 or 2 and nobody seems to know where all the birds went. Did not mean to ruffle any feathers, it just seems like a bad business move to me. Just like the deer guide that always kills the big buck after his clients do all the scouting....
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 09, 2016, 09:07:47 AM
Re-read my post...No, you should not sit out the whole season, but clients should come first. In other words, I guess its alright to let guides hunt AFTER all clients are done. I've just seen too many times guys pay for a 2 bird hunt and end up with 1 or none and then come to find out the all the guides have already killed 1 or 2 and nobody seems to know where all the birds went. Did not mean to ruffle any feathers, it just seems like a bad business move to me. Just like the deer guide that always kills the big buck after his clients do all the scouting....
No feathers ruffled buddy. We all have our personal views and opinions. The point i am trying to get is. If there are clients through the whole season when is it ok in your opinion to hunt. Now i am talking a place with way more birds than are needed to fill everyones tags including the guides and still have a bunch left for next year. If you say after the clients are done but i have clients booked the last week of the season then does that mean when those last clients kill it is ok? Now what about those people who are just poor hunters? We had several that flat couldnt understand turkey hunting. One guy leaned forward in the blind and put his gun all the way out of the blind while the birds were still 50+ yards and then shot at them running away. Then spooked several more birds. He did not kill one. In the same group another guy(65-70 yr old) and his son had birds at 10 yards beside the blind and the men got into an arguement over getting the gun up. The birds spooked and he took 3 shots at 40+ while they were running off. There was 7 guys in that group. Only 2 tagged out and 3 others killed one each. They all should have killed 2 but 5 of them were very poor hunters and none of them had ever patterned their gun. They didnt know jack about their guns other than they used them for duck hunting. We had multiple wounds from that group. We had a woman insist on using a bow and wounded 2 ( i am sure the first died but the second was killed 2 weeks later) before we could convince her to use a gun. Then she killed a bird. Would you not hunt at all until those clients the last week are done?
Honestly, if I were an outfitter either no guides would hunt OR I would stop booking hunts before the last of season and let the guides hunt the last week.
Actually if I were the owner, no guides would hunt period. Now with that being said you would not be working for tips either. I pay you fair amount and I would have that included in the price of the hunt. Depending on how my operation was set-up, if I could lodge you and feed you that would also be included. A good guide should never have to work for tips and no one should be using a bad guide......
I have a buddy that owns a big deer and turkey outfitting in Alabama. No guides can hunt period. However the owner leases some other property close by and allows the guides to hunt it all they want as that is their property to hunt alone
Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
Sent from my phone sucka
Quote from: snapper1982 on June 09, 2016, 10:26:08 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 09, 2016, 09:07:47 AM
Re-read my post...No, you should not sit out the whole season, but clients should come first. In other words, I guess its alright to let guides hunt AFTER all clients are done. I've just seen too many times guys pay for a 2 bird hunt and end up with 1 or none and then come to find out the all the guides have already killed 1 or 2 and nobody seems to know where all the birds went. Did not mean to ruffle any feathers, it just seems like a bad business move to me. Just like the deer guide that always kills the big buck after his clients do all the scouting....
No feathers ruffled buddy. We all have our personal views and opinions. The point i am trying to get is. If there are clients through the whole season when is it ok in your opinion to hunt. Now i am talking a place with way more birds than are needed to fill everyones tags including the guides and still have a bunch left for next year. If you say after the clients are done but i have clients booked the last week of the season then does that mean when those last clients kill it is ok? Now what about those people who are just poor hunters? We had several that flat couldnt understand turkey hunting. One guy leaned forward in the blind and put his gun all the way out of the blind while the birds were still 50+ yards and then shot at them running away. Then spooked several more birds. He did not kill one. In the same group another guy(65-70 yr old) and his son had birds at 10 yards beside the blind and the men got into an arguement over getting the gun up. The birds spooked and he took 3 shots at 40+ while they were running off. There was 7 guys in that group. Only 2 tagged out and 3 others killed one each. They all should have killed 2 but 5 of them were very poor hunters and none of them had ever patterned their gun. They didnt know jack about their guns other than they used them for duck hunting. We had multiple wounds from that group. We had a woman insist on using a bow and wounded 2 ( i am sure the first died but the second was killed 2 weeks later) before we could convince her to use a gun. Then she killed a bird. Would you not hunt at all until those clients the last week are done?
. Why would an outfitter or guide allow his clients to run amuk that that? Shouldn't the shotguns be patterned before allowing them to hunt , like sighting in a rifle before a deer or hog hunt?
Shouldn't a guide be a coach and mentor for those that don't have experience? Shouldn't weapon rules be established beforehand? Guessing wounded game doesn't count as part of the limits there ? Sure some people are just hard to teach or control .
Here's a little different perspective on this entire debate.
I think many of us that go places to hunt are not looking for "guide" services. What we are looking for is access to a place that has birds to hunt. This is often in a location that has limited public-land hunting opportunities where the only practical alternative is to pay someone for access.
I will admit that I have had very limited experience with these types of situations, but I will say that when I talk to someone about hunting in an outfitted or "paid access" situation, I make it very clear to them beforehand that I am not expecting guide services, and in fact, I don't want any. If they do not want to provide access without providing a guide that is expecting to be tipped for, in essence, being in my way for my hunt, then I look for another outfitter or property to hunt. I guess I just have a hard time understanding why anybody wants to pay to hunt something where they are doing nothing but pulling the trigger.
Admittedly, there are those outfitters/operations that do not want hunters "doing their own thing" on their property and must insist that their hunters be guided. In those cases, in my opinion, the hunter should be able to look at the price he is paying and be able to assess whether he should anticipate tipping the guide and maybe the other "help". To me, there is a big difference between paying a couple of thousand bucks for a three or four day hunt, as compared to paying a few hundred bucks,...and how that affects my attitude about tipping.
Finally, I have had a couple of experiences where I made it very clear prior to the hunt that all I/we wanted was access to the property and did not require or want any guiding services,...only to arrive at the property and have the outfitter/owner more or less insist that we have someone along with us. In those cases, I have felt like telling him,..."Okay, you can come along,...but you are going to have to pay us for the privilege". ;D :newmascot: ;D
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 10, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
Here's a little different perspective on this entire debate.
I think many of us that go places to hunt are not looking for "guide" services. What we are looking for is access to a place that has birds to hunt. This is often in a location that has limited public-land hunting opportunities where the only practical alternative is to pay someone for access.
I will admit that I have had very limited experience with these types of situations, but I will say that when I talk to someone about hunting in an outfitted or "paid access" situation, I make it very clear to them beforehand that I am not expecting guide services, and in fact, I don't want any. If they do not want to provide access without providing a guide that is expecting to be tipped for, in essence, being in my way for my hunt, then I look for another outfitter or property to hunt. I guess I just have a hard time understanding why anybody wants to pay to hunt something where they are doing nothing but pulling the trigger.
Admittedly, there are those outfitters/operations that do not want hunters "doing their own thing" on their property and must insist that their hunters be guided. In those cases, in my opinion, the hunter should be able to look at the price he is paying and be able to assess whether he should anticipate tipping the guide and maybe the other "help". To me, there is a big difference between paying a couple of thousand bucks for a three or four day hunt, as compared to paying a few hundred bucks,...and how that affects my attitude about tipping.
Finally, I have had a couple of experiences where I made it very clear prior to the hunt that all I/we wanted was access to the property and did not require or want any guiding services,...only to arrive at the property and have the outfitter/owner more or less insist that we have someone along with us. In those cases, I have felt like telling him,..."Okay, you can come along,...but you are going to have to pay us for the privilege". ;D :newmascot: ;D
Excellent reply!!!
Okay so you can come along = that's funny.
Only thing is that if I don't know what you are like then that would be a little bit of a concern to me to let you go out on your own. You maybe like some of the yahoos that snapper had to deal with !
Once you have proven yourself then you could have at it and that would be decided before you go out .
Of course the guides may not agree if they are not being paid to take you or recieve your very generous tip!! ;)
Quote from: owlhoot on June 10, 2016, 01:42:10 PM
Okay so you can come along = that's funny.
Only thing is that if I don't know what you are like then that would be a little bit of a concern to me to let you go out on your own. You maybe like some of the yahoos that snapper had to deal with !
Once you have proven yourself then you could have at it and that would be decided before you go out .
Of course the guides may not agree if they are not being paid to take you or recieve your very generous tip!! ;)
Very true statement. That is exactly the reason that in every outfitter/client agreement, both parties need to tell the other what is expected up front,...from both sides. The outfitter needs to tell the client,..."this is what is expected of you",...and the same for the client to the outfitter. If those expectations don't match up, no agreement should be made between them,...and the hunter should look for something more suitable to his needs.
On the other side of the coin, any outfitter that is willing to tell the potential client what he wants to hear just so he can sell a hunt is just as guilty of misrepresenting himself as is the hunter that claims to be competent, but is not. Honest communication is essential.
Ok. Enough bickering! Lol! Bottom line is I'm going on a self guided hunt. Meals and lodging provided. The contract states that the outfitter will show us the property the day before the hunt and then we are on our own. We provide our own transportation. Bird cleaning is on us. Is there really any reason to tip? Self guided folks! Quit bringing guides into the question! There ain't gonna be any! We are already paying the outfitter for access and lodging. And did I mention, no guides!
I would say let your conscience guide you. If he was a genuinely nice fellow and treated you well, put you on good property, fed you well and made you feel welcome then why not? If he did the opposite then why would you?
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 10, 2016, 05:51:42 PM
Ok. Enough bickering! Lol! Bottom line is I'm going on a self guided hunt. Meals and lodging provided. The contract states that the outfitter will show us the property the day before the hunt and then we are on our own. We provide our own transportation. Bird cleaning is on us. Is there really any reason to tip? Self guided folks! Quit bringing guides into the question! There ain't gonna be any! We are already paying the outfitter for access and lodging. And did I mention, no guides!
Are you sure :TooFunny:
You go to a restaurant to get food. If the restaurant has wait staff, I pay for the food and then tip the staff for their service. If I go to McDonalds, I pay for the food and since no one served the food, no tips. Access to land is like the food - you pay what is asked. If no one guides you (Wait staff), no tip. If the outfitter is setting up lodging, doing pre-season scouting, giving good scouting reports and boots on the ground info, then I think a tip is in order.
How bout this.... Tip the cook and if YOU feel like tipping the landowner then tip the landowner. I would say our opinions shouldn't matter in your decision making. It's your money and character here.
Quote from: opster246 on June 10, 2016, 06:35:57 PM
You go to a restaurant to get food. If the restaurant has wait staff, I pay for the food and then tip the staff for their service. If I go to McDonalds, I pay for the food and since no one served the food, no tips. Access to land is like the food - you pay what is asked. If no one guides you (Wait staff), no tip. If the outfitter is setting up lodging, doing pre-season scouting, giving good scouting reports and boots on the ground info, then I think a tip is in order.
X2. Well said.
All The Way!
Quote from: opster246 on June 10, 2016, 06:35:57 PM
You go to a restaurant to get food. If the restaurant has wait staff, I pay for the food and then tip the staff for their service. If I go to McDonalds, I pay for the food and since no one served the food, no tips. Access to land is like the food - you pay what is asked. If no one guides you (Wait staff), no tip. If the outfitter is setting up lodging, doing pre-season scouting, giving good scouting reports and boots on the ground info, then I think a tip is in order.
So, what exactly are you paying him for??? If you guys are just looking for land to hunt, any land, I'm your guy and I won't expect a tip or for you to return ever again!!!! If lodging is agreed upon, pre-season scouting and reports should be a given, hence the reason it's called semi-guided!!!!
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 10, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
I guess I just have a hard time understanding why anybody wants to pay to hunt something where they are doing nothing but pulling the trigger.
Great post!
Sent from the Strut Zone
Id say you are paying him for access, tipping is for being a standup guy and sharing information with you. As I said, if it's just access - pay only. :z-dizzy:
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 10, 2016, 05:51:42 PM
Ok. Enough bickering! Lol! Bottom line is I'm going on a self guided hunt. Meals and lodging provided. The contract states that the outfitter will show us the property the day before the hunt and then we are on our own. We provide our own transportation. Bird cleaning is on us. Is there really any reason to tip? Self guided folks! Quit bringing guides into the question! There ain't gonna be any! We are already paying the outfitter for access and lodging. And did I mention, no guides!
I would not tip unless I just felt like throwing in a little extra cause I liked them.
Went to Kansas this year with an outfitter. He said this is where you will be hunting and good luck then it was up to us from there. I did not tip him or pay anything extra and he texted after we left saying he hoped we had plans to come back. This hunt did not include lodging or meals.
Sent from the Strut Zone
Came across this today
https://www.bowhunting.com/blog/2016/06/08/hunting-guides-dream-client/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=hunting-guides-dream-client
Good article. Thanks for sharing.
Quote from: davisd9 on June 10, 2016, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 10, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
I guess I just have a hard time understanding why anybody wants to pay to hunt something where they are doing nothing but pulling the trigger.
Great post!
Sent from the Strut Zone
The first turkey I shot was called in by a friend of mine. I didn't pay for the hunt, but honestly I did little more than pull the trigger. I still remember it like it was yesterday. It got me hooked. I've called in dozens of birds for "first time" turkey hunters since. I've never judged any of them for "just pulling the trigger". Many of them have gotten hooked on turkey hunting... We all start somewhere, right?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Planner on June 11, 2016, 10:39:32 PM
Quote from: davisd9 on June 10, 2016, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 10, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
I guess I just have a hard time understanding why anybody wants to pay to hunt something where they are doing nothing but pulling the trigger.
Great post!
Sent from the Strut Zone
The first turkey I shot was called in by a friend of mine. I didn't pay for the hunt, but honestly I did little more than pull the trigger. I still remember it like it was yesterday. It got me hooked. I've called in dozens of birds for "first time" turkey hunters since. I've never judged any of them for "just pulling the trigger". Many of them have gotten hooked on turkey hunting... We all start somewhere, right?
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The experiences you are speaking of is quite different than shooting a bird in front of an outfitter guide. Of course we all start somewhere and I am glad someone took the time to take you hunting and called in a bird for you.
You did not pay for this experience or you do not walk around with a spur necklace as your claim to fame when all those Spurs were only collected by you pulling a trigger.
I will admit that I have shot a bird that someone else called in, my buddy deacon. I will also admit there are other guys that I will gladly shoot a bird that comes into their calling. If I will shoot a bird you call in that is my way of showing respect to you as a hunter. I will not do that with everyone. Maybe it is a pride thing but to me it seems more as a respect type thing.
I try to hunt with different people every year and sometimes I call and sometimes we both are calling depending on their level of hunting. Going out with a new Hunter and them shooting a bird you called in is much different than shooting birds over a paid guide, in my opinion. My son's first few birds will most likely be shot from my calling, but he is learning and once I feel he is ready he will have to jump in calling. Once I think he has "it" I will go but he is the one that will have to do the decision making and calling. I hope that I have the privilege to one day squeeze the trigger on a bird he calls in for me.
Sent from the Strut Zone
Geez,some are so full of themselves.
Quote from: ccleroy on June 12, 2016, 04:35:36 PM
Geez,some are so full of themselves.
Lol! Yup! Doing nothing but pulling the trigger? Unless you're in a blind, then even if you didn't do the calling you're doing more than just pulling the trigger. You still have to sit still, move at the right time, pick out the bird, wait for the right shot, and then make the shot. I've killed lots of birds that the calling was the easy part. Getting the shot was the issue!
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 12, 2016, 06:28:58 PM
Lol! Yup! Doing nothing but pulling the trigger? Unless you're in a blind, then even if you didn't do the calling you're doing more than just pulling the trigger. You still have to sit still, move at the right time, pick out the bird, wait for the right shot, and then make the shot. I've killed lots of birds that the calling was the easy part. Getting the shot was the issue!
I don't know... Shooting the turkey is probably the easiest part of the game...
I have never been with a turkey hunting guide, but I would hope that most would be understanding of a hunter that wants to do their own calling.
Finding a bird, calling them in, and getting them to a good spot to shoot is the difficult part of turkey hunting... Actually shooting them is somewhat anti-climatic... "Don't move" and "shoot" would not be a hunting situation that would float my boat, and I ain't a great turkey hunter. "Here they are, you figure it out," would be a lot more appealing to me.
Although we are getting far away from the original topic here, It is interesting to see the different perspectives about what each of us is looking for in our turkey hunting. For me, it has nothing to do with pulling the trigger. It is about testing my skills against the turkeys,...wherever they might be. I don't condemn other hunters for having a different perspective on it. If someone gets satisfaction in their hunts by doing little or nothing in regards to the calling strategies or woods skills needed to get a gobbler into shooting range, and is perfectly content to let someone else do that for them,...then have at it.
That just doesn't work for me, personally. When I pull the trigger on a bird, I want to feel like I played some part in why he ended up in that condition. That does not mean I had to do all of the calling myself, or that I had to make all of the "woods decisions" involved. In fact, when I hunt with other people, I want them to call (except in rare cases where they are completely inept), and I want to get their opinions about what tactics might be needed.
Where I draw the line, however, is when someone I am hunting with (and this only happens ONE time with me) is so "full of themselves" that they want to make all of the decisions and do all of the calling.
This is where this discussion comes back to outfitted or guided hunts. When I arrange a hunt, I make it clear up front that I want to "do my own thing",... hunting strategies and calling (by myself or in cooperation with others). When I do that and then go ahead and pay to hunt somewhere, and then the outfitter/guide ends up wanting to make all of the decisions and do all of the calling,....and I am essentially just pulling the trigger at the right moment,....I will only be hunting with that outfitter/guide one time and will not be back. I don't care if there is a gobbler behind every bush on his property.
Yes, because of my nature I will give them a tip (grudgingly) at the end of it all,...and with a smile on my face,...but I will not be back,...and I will never recommend that outfitter to anybody I know without a disclaimer that "if you like to call and hunt the way you want to, this guy is probably not for you".
Again, if someone feels differently about it and is good with being the trigger puller, more power to them,...that just ain't for me.
what I expect from a guide/outfitter is for them to have done the homework that I can't do. To know the bird population, roost areas, where they go after fly down, etc. Give me that intel, then let me do my thing.
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 13, 2016, 10:23:39 AM
This is where this discussion comes back to outfitted or guided hunts. When I arrange a hunt, I make it clear up front that I want to "do my own thing",... hunting strategies and calling (by myself or in cooperation with others). When I do that and then go ahead and pay to hunt somewhere, and then the outfitter/guide ends up wanting to make all of the decisions and do all of the calling,....and I am essentially just pulling the trigger at the right moment,....I will only be hunting with that outfitter/guide one time and will not be back. I don't care if there is a gobbler behind every bush on his property.
Yes, because of my nature I will give them a tip (grudgingly) at the end of it all,...and with a smile on my face,...but I will not be back,...and I will never recommend that outfitter to anybody I know without a disclaimer that "if you like to call and hunt the way you want to, this guy is probably not for you".
Again, if someone feels differently about it and is good with being the trigger puller, more power to them,...that just ain't for me.
I email every guide or outfitter I go with and expressly outline my expectations. When I get a reply that confirms my expectations (i.e. hours in the field, calling, number of hunters in a group, etc.), I take that email with me when I go on the trip. In some cases there are modifications made to my expectations that I do agree to, but there are issues that will and have prevented me from going with certain guides or outfitters (luckily most have been upfront and honest with me).
Not only do I take a copy of the email with me on the trip, I have a copy of it in my back pocket in the field. When the guide says that he never agreed to such and such, I pull out the email reply with him making that exact statement.
If a guide agrees to let me do all the calling before booking, and then will not put down his call, not only would I not tip, I might take issue paying at all...
If I go with a guide, and we are unsuccessful, but everything was as promised, and the guide worked hard, I am tipping...
Good idea, Marc. Indeed, the advent of email is a wonderful thing for things such as this.
"If I go with a guide, and we are unsuccessful, but everything was as promised, and the guide worked hard, I am tipping..." ....My sentiments exactly...
Quote from: dejake on June 13, 2016, 11:38:24 AM
what I expect from a guide/outfitter is for them to have done the homework that I can't do. To know the bird population, roost areas, where they go after fly down, etc. Give me that intel, then let me do my thing.
Exactly, and that in itself should weigh heavily on the tipping scale. If you've never been a guide it's pretty hard for some to grasp. It's pretty simple, just think how much more time you would spend on a hunt if you didn't know the above mentioned trying to do nothing more than locate turkeys on a tract you've never hunted? Saying that, if the guide failed to put you on birds, give you the best MRI you need then a tip isn't worst discussing. I've never been on a guided hunt, but can definitely see where not getting a tip from a hunter after you've put them on birds can rub you the wrong way. Has anyone here never been on an offshore or inshore fishing trip? Same rules apply, tipping is a common practice and those who don't are frowned upon........
Well said GobbleNut. Exactly how I feel about guides, even more so when duck hunting. I make a trip to Canada every year and we do our own thing. No guides. We have made a few contacts that know who owns what property and that speeds the process of us getting up with the landowner when the birds are in a certain spot. I will never pay for a guided duck hunt. I do not judge those that do or would, just not my thing. I have leased property before.
Same for turkey hunting. A fully guided hunt would not give me the thrill I am looking for. That is why we all hunt, for the personal satisfaction, whatever that level is, for each of us. Would be cheaper to go to the grocery if we wanted food. My hunting methods would be frowned on by plenty since I do kinda "deer hunt" the birds on one piece of property I hunt. I don't care though, I enjoy it. We all make our own rules for what the challenge that we want.
Here in Minnesota land of 10,000 lakes fishing is big biz and a way of life,,lots of guides here and it is always customary to tip,, I don't see why you wouldn't do the same for hunting.
Quote from: Happy hooker on June 20, 2016, 05:04:48 PM
Here in Minnesota land of 10,000 lakes fishing is big biz and a way of life,,lots of guides here and it is always customary to tip,, I don't see why you wouldn't do the same for hunting.
Okay, so when you hire a fishing guide I imagine you plan on holding your own fishing rod and catching the fish yourself. How would you feel about it if that guide took your rod, did all of the casting and hooking of the fish,....and then handed the rod to you so you could reel it in? I suspect your attitude about tipping might change a bit under those circumstances,...especially if he did not tell you that was how your fishing trip was going to be.
Again, when a guide provides what is understood to be expected of him, he most certainly deserves a tip,....and if he goes "above and beyond" then a generous tip is in order. However, there are those occasional instances where tipping just does not seem to fit the circumstances. That is what some of us have been referencing here.
A big thanks to everyone who weighted in here! Tons of food for thought. I guess I'll have to wait and see how it goes. And, as they say, the waiting is the hardest part!
Quote from: ccleroy on June 13, 2016, 08:19:55 PM
Quote from: dejake on June 13, 2016, 11:38:24 AM
what I expect from a guide/outfitter is for them to have done the homework that I can't do. To know the bird population, roost areas, where they go after fly down, etc. Give me that intel, then let me do my thing.
Exactly, and that in itself should weigh heavily on the tipping scale. If you've never been a guide it's pretty hard for some to grasp. It's pretty simple, just think how much more time you would spend on a hunt if you didn't know the above mentioned trying to do nothing more than locate turkeys on a tract you've never hunted? Saying that, if the guide failed to put you on birds, give you the best MRI you need then a tip isn't worst discussing. I've never been on a guided hunt, but can definitely see where not getting a tip from a hunter after you've put them on birds can rub you the wrong way. Has anyone here never been on an offshore or inshore fishing trip? Same rules apply, tipping is a common practice and those who don't are frowned upon........
Took an inshore trip several years ago. Guy got there several hours later than he said for us to show up at the marina. Decided we'd be better off fishing inshore instead of deep. Trolled us around for 2 hours and then told us that if we wanted the other half of the day we'd have to pay him right then because the second half of the day was about to begin. We'd lost several hours because of his own personal issues, he'd cut our trip in half, we didn't get to go deep sea like was already discussed and expected. As a group, we decided to pass on the second half of the day. Got back to the marina, paid the man half of what the original cost was as he stood there and said, "this is it?" I told him he's lucky to be getting that. The trip was cut short by hours and he had his own agenda in mind, not ours. There was no tip. When an inshore half day trip was supposed to be a 6 hour trip and our total fishing time was less than two hours (3 hours and 15 minutes total counting time in and out of the inlet), I'm not paying for the full trip. Half the work, half the pay. It was a bad experience and kind of soured me on the whole thing really. Haven't tried another trip since.
Btw, we caught 23 fish total on that trip. All were small blues and Spanish mackerel. I caught 13 blues and 17 Spanish mackerel from shore in less time than that later that evening. Maybe the guy I took with me should've tipped me. :TooFunny:
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 21, 2016, 02:40:13 PM
Quote from: Happy hooker on June 20, 2016, 05:04:48 PM
Here in Minnesota land of 10,000 lakes fishing is big biz and a way of life, lots of guides here and it is always customary to tip, I don't see why you wouldn't do the same for hunting.
Okay, so when you hire a fishing guide I imagine you plan on holding your own fishing rod and catching the fish yourself. How would you feel about it if that guide took your rod, did all of the casting and hooking of the fish,....and then handed the rod to you so you could reel it in?
A lot of deep sea guides do just that... In grad school, several of us got a "6-pack" to take us out for game fish... We told the guides that we would handle the rods and all they had to do was gaff fish and tie lines...
Initial hook-ups, the guides all tried to hand us rods with fish on them, and we "angrily" told them no... Later in the day, the captain spotted a large marlin actively feeding, and the crew desperately was trying to hook it up for us... We insisted that we had no interest in "reeling that fish in." The captain continued to scream at his crew to get that fish on the line though (we called the captain "Thor").
Finally, I took out my knife, and informed the crew that if they hooked up, I was cutting the line... None of us wanted to spend a couple hundred dollars so one person could spend several hours fighting that fish... In the end, the captain got us into plenty of fish, and we had no complaints.
Overall, I believe that fishing guides are better. They are doing it all year long. I used to take a couple of guided fly-fishing trips per year, and out of all the guides, there was only one guide that was not a better fisherman (or more knowledgeable) than I was... Not only have they been able to put us on fish, they knew exactly where to cast and what flies to use... Most have helped us with technical issues such as casting and mending...
Hunting guides however... I have seen a good majority of hunting guides who lack skill or basic knowledge... Many times they have access to desirable property, but I have been disappointed as to the knowledge base of many hunting guides (especially as compared to fishing guides)... At least with waterfowl and upland hunting.
Never been on a turkey hunt with an outfitter. Have been on bow hunt with outfitter a couple of times. The outfitter also acted as guild. The first time I offered tip and he wouldn't take it. Knowing he loved to Turkey hunt I took him a SS long box personalized as a tip the next year. Not only was he delighted but a couple months latter he called me and invited me to come next spring and hunt with him for a week free of charge. Some time tipping can benefit you as well as the person receiving the tip.