Using my current Hevi-shot loads, it would seem I have an adequate pattern to kill a bird at 40 yards (which is generally at the limit of my comfort zone).
I have killed a bird with #2 steel on accident (had a few duck loads that looked just like my turkey loads), and have killed two birds with improved cylinder in the gun (one while quail hunting in the fall, and one cause I had the wrong choke in the gun). All three of these birds were in the 30-35 yard range.
Being primarily a wing-shooter, the only sight I use is the front bead. 40 yards (give or take) is my limit, cause that is about the longest distance I can clearly see and comfortably get a hold point on the bird. No plans or desire to change sights...
In patterning some of those turkey chokes in the past, they threw an awful tight pattern at 20-30 yards, (most of my shots being between 25-35 yards)... Had one that completely changed the hold-point as well. I figured, I would rather have the margin for error at close ranges, rather than the extra range for misjudging my shooting distance.
So, what say you all? What are the advantages and disadvantages of a full choke over a turkey choke, or vice versa???
Full choke might be the best for you. It all depends on where and how you hunt and your choice of sight etc. pattern board will tell you. I was contemplating a full choke myself especially with flight control wads.
I went to a full choke this year with Federal 3rd degree 3". I am very impressed with this shell. At 45 yards these pattern very nice, flight control is a great concept for turkey hunting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If that is what patterns good at the ranges you shoot then it is all good. A lot of turkey chokes are really tight , but there is some between the full like some duck chokes and coyote chokes which may be something to consider too.
As long as I'm.getting 100+ hits in a ten inch circle. Yes some load are super tight up close such as longbeards and with such loads in situations when and where you would expect to shoot no farther than 40 yards a full choke is likely better.
(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz192/xbox360777twc/Mobile%20Uploads/0305161216_zpsapg7u9vi.jpg) (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/xbox360777twc/media/Mobile%20Uploads/0305161216_zpsapg7u9vi.jpg.html) mossberg 500. sporting a kicks .660 gobbling thunder choke. shooting 3 inch no. 5# long beard xr's.
Top left 20 yards.
Top right 30.
Bottom left 40.
And bottom right 53 yards. Your just going to have to experiment till you find the right combo.
Benelli Super Nova 12ga
Hevi-Shot 4,5,6 blend
Primos .655 Jellyhead turkey choke
(Forgive the 25yrd miss...but the pattern is what matters)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/2d4ca9697910c4bfa0620db7440a3055.jpg)
I agree w what you're saying some loads can actually be too tight especially up close. I do have one gun set that way but the odds are better w a more open/even pattern
Main thing you looking for is POI and no holes in your pattern. Most turkeys are killed for 20 - 45 yards most of the time. If you have a good open shot who going to wait for a turkey to be 5 - 10 yards. First make sure your using the right kind of shell's. Second make sure you have checked and pattern the gun to take the turkey as humanly as possible.
Full choke has killed gobblers graveyard dead at 40 yards long before turkey loads were ever thought of. It will certainly kill them now with "turkey loads" They are not particularly tough birds to kill provided they are shot right (head and neck area) . Their feathers are not like plated armor either as some would have you believe. I prefer to shoot them in the head/neck but many were taken with body shots before head shooting turkeys became common. As already posted by other members #2 lead shot produced exit holes more often than not at 40 yards or more.
Only way to be sure is to pattern your gun with the full choke and see. But I'm sure it will be fine. Most guys get way to caught up in counting holes in paper. You don't need 250 hits in 10 inches to kill a bird. If most of these guys spent as much time scouting and practicing their calling as they do in seeing how many holes they can put in a piece of paper, they wouldn't need any fancy chokes or shells!
Quote from: Farmboy27 on May 14, 2016, 07:42:30 PM
Only way to be sure is to pattern your gun with the full choke and see. But I'm sure it will be fine. Most guys get way to caught up in counting holes in paper. You don't need 250 hits in 10 inches to kill a bird. If most of these guys spent as much time scouting and practicing their calling as they do in seeing how many holes they can put in a piece of paper, they wouldn't need any fancy chokes or shells!
X2
Back in the 1800s thy killed off every bird in Ontario Canada. With black powder shotguns some with a little choke.lol most of my turkeys are shot at less than 20 yards so a full choke will do you just fine pattern your gun and pick your shots.
Same goes with archery deer hunting. New bows are all about speed. Everybody wants tight pin gaps, less drop equals less margin of error in range estimation. Yet when asked, most archers openly admit that the majority of their deer are shot at 15-20 yds.
Looking back on 30+ years of turkey hunting I can only remember 2 birds that I really reached out there and killed. Most are 20 yds.
The 2 that I killed this year were 7 and 20.
I firmly believe that people are over-choking the WLB and flight control loads as is. I also believe that people would see less poi shifts with these loads if they would open it up a bit.
2015 Old Gobbler contest Champions
All very good advice here. That hevi shot is just over kill and overpriced, but it gets results. I think ill stick with my long beards for now and worry more about scouting like farmboy said.
From my perspective, you have summed it up well, Marc. To expand a bit, each one of us needs to know how our guns shoot when we go afield in relation to the typical ranges we will be shooting,...but in addition, we need to know our personal limitations on how well we perform under the pressure and excitement level of when a gobbler shows up in range.
I have seen hunters get so excited that they could not have hit a gobbler at five yards with a thirty-inch pattern, much less the baseball-size patterns some of these chokes shoot. Then again, there are folks that hunt in conditions where a shot inside of thirty yards is a rarity,...and those situations call for a different combination.
The optimum pairing of gun/choke with a hunter's personal abilities is sometimes not as easy and straightforward as it might seem. Oftentimes, the extra-tight chokes are best left in the hands of the highly-skilled shooters with nerves of steel when that gobbler shows up. The great majority of the rest of us most likely need something a little bit more forgiving.
Daughter missed a bird at 25 yards opening day with LB 3"-6's with a bennelli and down and dirty haymaker .670 tube. She said gun was off and it could have been so we went home and shot it at 30 yds. Now it wasn't off and pattern has great #'s but as you can see if you go left or right 3 inches then no turkey. 3 inches for me on a live bird at 30 yds doesnt leave much room for error. I havent patterned at 15 or 20 yards but can imagine the tightness. I too have begun to consider a more open pattern after some LB's cutting nothing but air and watching the gobblers launching like a space shuttle over the trees.
In my 30 years of turkey hunting, i've never tried to choke a gun to death.
I prefer forgiveness in a pattern. There is always a bit of a tradeoff when it comes to that. My setup will give me a little wiggle room at twenty and 180 in the ten at 40. I prefer them right around 30 yards and usually take take the first good shot at that range. Shot one at 8 steps once and was comfortable enough to go with a head shot. A dot scope or optics is a big help for aiming at close quarters. Many shotgun don't shoot point of aim and adjustable sights are great for helping with that. Was never much for seeing how many holes I can make in a circle myself. I like knowing at 40 and in a turkey is dead unless I fail to do my part.
Happy-
What shell and Choke are you shooting?
Quote from: Happy on May 15, 2016, 08:12:54 PM
I prefer forgiveness in a pattern. There is always a bit of a tradeoff when it comes to that. My setup will give me a little wiggle room at twenty and 180 in the ten at 40. I prefer them right around 30 yards and usually take take the first good shot at that range. Shot one at 8 steps once and was comfortable enough to go with a head shot. A dot scope or optics is a big help for aiming at close quarters. Many shotgun don't shoot point of aim and adjustable sights are great for helping with that. Was never much for seeing how many holes I can make in a circle myself. I like knowing at 40 and in a turkey is dead unless I fail to do my part.
Quote from: 2dogs1name on May 14, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
Benelli Super Nova 12ga
Hevi-Shot 4,5,6 blend
Primos .655 Jellyhead turkey choke
(Forgive the 25yrd miss...but the pattern is what matters)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/2d4ca9697910c4bfa0620db7440a3055.jpg)
That 25 yard miss is exactly why I dont like to choke a gun to death. I had a couple of very close misses and changed it up a bit. I either shoot an old HS extra full(not sure of the constriction) or a factory Remington Extra full out of my 870 .
Mossburg 835. Stardot .676 choke and hevi shot 2.25 ounce #6 shot. For years I shot federal 2.25 ounce #6 copper plated lead loads and those were a tad more open than the hevi shot. Think was in the 145-150 range at 40.
Quote from: 2dogs1name on May 14, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
Benelli Super Nova 12ga
Hevi-Shot 4,5,6 blend
Primos .655 Jellyhead turkey choke
(Forgive the 25yrd miss...but the pattern is what matters)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/2d4ca9697910c4bfa0620db7440a3055.jpg)
Very nice patterns, but you made my point for me...
Any one of those patterns are obviously lethal, and could open up quite a bit and still be lethal, but none of them will be lethal if the pattern does not hit its mark. I seriously doubt that I am capable of putting the pattern on the bird at the ranges that your load/choke combination is capable of...
Seems the standard is 100 pellets in a 10 inch circle, but I would guess half that many would be lethal most of the time (which gives me a bit of room for error on range judgement). Granted, I put my maximum range at 100 pellets in a 10 inch circle, but I would guess that 75 would be more than adequate, and 50 would probably be a dead bird.
Admittedly, I did pass a bird on the last day of the season I would have taken with that choke in the gun... Thought he was about 45 yards (probably closer to 50 though), and just did not quite feel comfortable. He came into 10 yards, but would not poke his head over the gully he was in; he crossed back over the other side to take a look at me, and booked when he did not see a bird... I have to admit, I was itchin' to shoot... Itchin'...
On the other hand, I have killed two birds in close range in the past couple years...
This year, I took the top of the head off one at about 10-12 yards, actually hitting high of where intended:
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p51/msorsky/t-head-4-16_zps86fghp1j.jpg) (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/msorsky/media/t-head-4-16_zps86fghp1j.jpg.html)
I would guess, I could have completely missed with a tighter choke...
And, I am embarrassed to say that I had a bird at 17 yards that I barely hit a couple of years ago; head/neck-shot and dead, but not as many holes in him as I would have liked to see at that range. I know I would have missed that bird with a tighter choke. (Actually the bird in my avatar).
Quote from: 2dogs1name on May 14, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
Benelli Super Nova 12ga
Hevi-Shot 4,5,6 blend
Primos .655 Jellyhead turkey choke
(Forgive the 25yrd miss...but the pattern is what matters)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/2d4ca9697910c4bfa0620db7440a3055.jpg)
Wow that is super tight. I thought my pattern was a little tight at 20 yards with Longbeards and a Wright's #1 choke but it is a lot bigger than that. That is a great pattern at 50 but I would not hunt with it as I would be concerned about the precision required at 30 and under.
^^ No way id hunt with that pattern, optics or not. Id worry myself to death about missing. ^^
2015 Old Gobbler contest Champions
The nice thing about shooting super tight patterns is that if a bird is too close, you can always flush him and wait until he gets out to 35 or 40 yards before pulling the trigger. ;)
Quote from: BowBendr on May 19, 2016, 10:28:14 AM
^^ No way id hunt with that pattern, optics or not. Id worry myself to death about missing. ^^
2015 Old Gobbler contest Champions
x2 right there
The closer he gets, the more feathers enter my sight... I have no shame in shooting his beard off and tenderizing the breast meat
I like my Hevi-13 7's and yes they shoot very tight patterns and that's why I have scopes on both my turkey guns. The Longbeards also pattern tight and when I run out of 7's I'll use the two boxes of Longbeard 6's that are in my ammo box. My last two boxes of Hevi-13 7's cost me $15.00 with the rebate.
killed a many a bird with a full choke gun, been playing around with turkey chokes in my 20 ga guns some.
Got a 12 ga 3" 1100 magnum with a fixed .690 full choke that is deadly with anything that has a flight control wad in it
I have a .710 full choke tube for my 835 that will shoot some very good "hunting " patterns.
I'll take a more open choke than most. I get the "shakes" and I'm afraid I'll miss at 10 yards. Last year, I shot one at 11 yards, I think. Should have taken his head off, but almost missed. Too close! He came out of some thicker stuff and was on me before I knew it. I'm currently good to 35-40 yards give or take a few. Further than that.....gobbler wins! Although next year, I'm trying the LB #5 and #6, in my current set-up. Would like my 40 yard to contain a little more pellets. Probably not needed, but just for extra insurance. As for the "shakes", if I have a gobbler at 10 yards and I'm not "shaking", what the point of hunting! If I lose the excitement, I'll go punch holes in paper.
WTB - Choke for Mossberg 500. Must be capable of producing a nice even 10 inch pattern at 10 yards and a nice even 15 inch pattern at 40 yards, using 12 ga. LB in 3 inch #6.............LOL!
Sounds like a double or O/U with open choke and super full choke.
Just remember, if in doubt, let him walk. Nothing wrong with the gobbler winning some times. Just not too many...LOL
:fud: :OGani: