Friends, I don't recall ever posting a negative word on this site nor any FB roup concerning anyone or any thing. Today is different. After enjoying a successful hunt in KS ( I'm from Ga ) a few weeks ago we had planned a NW NE merriams trip but with snow and ice in the forecast we located a TX Rio hunt in NW TX 7/8 hours driving from our KS spot. Booked a 2 day hunt over the phone with Paul Moore of Moores Hilltop Ranch. 100% waste of time and money. Arrogant, rude, and a total scammer. His property is near Bridgeport. Met him at his barn that's in the center of a 640 acre cow pasture. He collected the balance of our $1400 fee and explained after signing release forms he would drive around and show us the ranch. He drove 200 yards and pointed to the back corner saying that was his property line. The four in our group just looked at each other thinking oh crap we've been had. He has no knowledge of a wild turkey or its habits. The property beyond his was residential mixed with some timber. His take on the entire thing was to wait for birds to come off the neighbors land onto his to "eat grass" in his pasture. He lied and lied the whole trip. After telling him there wasn't a single turkey on his place he argued that another hunter had called in five that morning. I talked to the other hunter. A lady in tears and her husband. He said all they saw was a hen walk through from across the line. She said and I quote "Paul Moore robbed us". Friends please beware if this guy and his lying cheating butt.
Thank you
WOW!!! JUST WOW!!!
Thanks for the heads up. The internet is a powerful thing and people searching for him will now see this.
His facebook page is full of negative reviews...
Good that you gave a heads up on that guy!! Sorry to hear about your loss...of time and money!!
We should have a dedicated section/page for outfitter reviews... good and bad. It would help so many people.
I agree
RipoffReport.com
I got taken by a group in MS on a duck lease. I did my homework ahead of time, but not enough. One of the principals in the group is now in jail for fraud (unrelated). When we talked with him about it (before he was jailed), he was a grade A POS. None of it was his fault.
By posting to ripoffreport, anyone googling his name will see it on the first page of Google. We did not get any of our money back, but got comfort knowing they will have a hard time doing that to anyone else. Put it on several websites dedicated to turkey hunting as well. The more you get it out there, and give the site you put it on hits, the higher it will come up on Google. Won't help you, but it will help others.
Sorry you got ripped off. I know how it feels.
Too bad this guy can't be sued! All that driving for nothing.
Quote from: FL-Boss on May 12, 2016, 12:16:47 PM
We should have a dedicated section/page for outfitter reviews... good and bad. It would help so many people.
Would love to see this also very helpful tool.
Sorry to hear about your experience. That really stinks!
I did a little bit of research on him and his operation after seeing this post, and was not real impressed with what I saw. Just curious as to why you chose to hunt with him?
I'm gonna mske a special " guides of shame " forum area area just for folks like this .....
BTW , florida is LOADED with folks like this also
Quote from: honker22 on May 12, 2016, 02:35:24 PM
Sorry to hear about your experience. That really stinks!
I did a little bit of research on him and his operation after seeing this post, and was not real impressed with what I saw. Just curious as to why you chose to hunt with him?
A guy I know from another state had hunted with him about four years ago and said he was a stand up guy at the time and had some birds. Knowing how our trip turned out the guy that referred him has apologized 100 times. On the drive home I did some research as well and found a lot of negative post concerning his services. Before the hunt I did not research him at all. Booked based on another hunter/friend that had been there in the past
Sorry for you. Thanks for sharing the info.
Bowsite has a review page as well and outfitters are able to respond to both positive and negative reviews about them. I don't spend much time on there but their format would be helpful if I was looking for an outfitter.
Quote from: gobblegobblegobble on May 13, 2016, 06:14:45 AM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on May 12, 2016, 02:40:36 PM
I'm gonna mske a special " guides of shame " forum area area just for folks like this .....
BTW , florida is LOADED with folks like this also
How about an Outfitter Reviews section, so we can see positive reviews as well. Make a sticky with a Guides of Shame list for quick reference within the subforum.
That's a great idea! I don't use outfitters too often but maybe state park/state forest reviews as part of that. We all share info on dif places. May not hurt
Sorry to hear it. My mom has always said they'll get theirs, it may not be when you want it to happen but it will. She has yet to be wrong. I like the idea of the guides of shame section, lets'em know were watching.
Ugh! That's a shame. Sorry you got burnt.
Guides & Outfitters Review Thread would be pretty cool. Source for positive & negative feedback :icon_thumright:
I had a problem with nilgai outfitter in Texas once. He refused to return my deposit for a hunt that never happened. I called the local chamber of commerce and they referred me to the local judge. Before it was over, the outfitter grudgingly returned my deposit. Texas can be a pretty close knit place, locally and calling the local business bureau or chamber of commerce may get you some results...Worth a try...
Thanks for posting this. I live in TX, and while I don't really use outfitters here, it's good to know. Sorry you had a bad experience here, and I hope you can get yourself a nice Rio sometime soon.
Looks like all he wanted was your money, that's so sorry of him. Did you try asking for a refund.. lol
Quote from: Bowguy on May 13, 2016, 08:18:54 AM
...I don't use outfitters too often but maybe state park/state forest reviews as part of that. We all share info on dif places. May not hurt
IMHO that is a terrible idea.
When someone posts or comments innocently about success on a particular tract of public ground, with all the internet traffic and countless "lurkers" forums like this receive, next year that public ground gets 110% hammered. Happens already - someone posts about 'hearing dozens of birds on a "such and such" state forest' and next thing you know people are crawling all over it and hiding behind every tree trying to get "their slam."
Reviewing pay-to-hunt properties, including both good and bad experiences, on the forum makes total sense. There hunter numbers are fully managed and most importantly limited by the property owner or guide service. These people are in it for profit and should be held accountable. Make no mistake, public ground has no such luxury of proactively managing hunter numbers outside of a draw system.
My opinion, if you want to share info on public ground, especially in states where the number of huntable public tracts is limited, there no reason to build an internet billboard about it. Instead if interested in an out of state public ground hunt PM someone from that state, or post a request for someone there to reach out to you via PM.
Quote from: paboxcall on May 13, 2016, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on May 13, 2016, 08:18:54 AM
...I don't use outfitters too often but maybe state park/state forest reviews as part of that. We all share info on dif places. May not hurt
IMHO that is a terrible idea.
When someone posts or comments innocently about success on a particular tract of public ground, with all the internet traffic and countless "lurkers" forums like this receive, next year that public ground gets 110% hammered. Happens already - someone posts about 'hearing dozens of birds on a "such and such" state forest' and next thing you know people are crawling all over it and hiding behind every tree trying to get "their slam."
Reviewing pay-to-hunt properties, including both good and bad experiences, on the forum makes total sense. There hunter numbers are fully managed and most importantly limited by the property owner or guide service. These people are in it for profit and should be held accountable. Make no mistake, public ground has no such luxury of proactively managing hunter numbers outside of a draw system.
My opinion, if you want to share info on public ground, especially in states where the number of huntable public tracts is limited, there no reason to build an internet billboard about it. Instead if interested in an out of state public ground hunt PM someone from that state, or post a request for someone there to reach out to you via PM.
Amen, but as a public land duck hunter in Florida, Shannon knows this already all too well. He would realize the problem with public land reviews before it were to ever happen.
I will share a whole lot of information to an individual I deem worthy and absolutely zero on the internet. When I post success pictures of fishing spots or duck hunting locales, I blank out the background. The internet is for a long time and there are cyberscouters everywhere.
I'd like to add to this thread. I had the same experience last year in Texas.. Turkey, Texas to be exact, go figure. L&W Ranches is the name of the place. Their website is still updated with photos from somewhere but after being their I can say that the pics they have posted aren't from the ranch where they took my money. Hunted 2 days and never saw any sign of a turkey, not even an old track or feather. We were told we would have the place to ourselves but after arriving were told that he had some hog hunters coming in on our 3rd day. For the record I saw ZERO hog sign on the place so they were fixing to get "robbed" as well. It's a terrible shame that a mans word isn't good enough these days.
I went to one ranch that was great turkey habitat and TONS of big big rios. I have only shot one spring turkey so I'm a complete scrub and I bagged a 22lb 10inch beard and just shy of an inch Spurs.
All morning thundered gobbles throughout the valley. It was amazing.
The guide was a pretty poor called and hunter but another guide does work there and he's hunted the whole United States so he knows turkeys. Don't know why I was shorted having him around but eh I got my bird.
The ranch is Escondido Ranch in Junction. It's an exotic game ranch and they have SWEET accomodations. I am very picky and whiny as some have seen so for me to give a glowing review? I let just be good.
Quote from: paboxcall on May 13, 2016, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on May 13, 2016, 08:18:54 AM
...I don't use outfitters too often but maybe state park/state forest reviews as part of that. We all share info on dif places. May not hurt
IMHO that is a terrible idea.
When someone posts or comments innocently about success on a particular tract of public ground, with all the internet traffic and countless "lurkers" forums like this receive, next year that public ground gets 110% hammered. Happens already - someone posts about 'hearing dozens of birds on a "such and such" state forest' and next thing you know people are crawling all over it and hiding behind every tree trying to get "their slam."
Reviewing pay-to-hunt properties, including both good and bad experiences, on the forum makes total sense. There hunter numbers are fully managed and most importantly limited by the property owner or guide service. These people are in it for profit and should be held accountable. Make no mistake, public ground has no such luxury of proactively managing hunter numbers outside of a draw system.
My opinion, if you want to share info on public ground, especially in states where the number of huntable public tracts is limited, there no reason to build an internet billboard about it. Instead if interested in an out of state public ground hunt PM someone from that state, or post a request for someone there to reach out to you via PM.
I agree 100%. I have no problem sharing and/or swapping public land info with an individual if I have some trust there, but wouldn't want it broadcasts to the general public. But the outfitter reviews would be great.
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Add me to that list, its terrible idea to speak of public spots if you do I wouldn't plan on hunting there next few years even large pieces of land can get hammered from cyber scouters. Outfitter reviews is great idea you can't always trust the references your given no way to know if its their cousins your speaking to its good to have peoples experiences good and bad brfore laying out your cash and just as importantly for most spending your vacation days
Quote from: FL-Boss on May 12, 2016, 12:16:47 PM
We should have a dedicated section/page for outfitter reviews... good and bad. It would help so many people.
Great idea!! :icon_thumright:
Let's not forget some on the responsibility falls on the hunter. As mentioned, if you don't do your research in advance, shame on you. We all have computers and smart phones in our pocket these days and can easily research any outfitter in 5 seconds. If there are some bad reviews listed on the web, you will find them. If you can't find anything listed, use another outfitter or make sure you have many personal recommendations. There are hundreds of outfitters that have great reviews
Bottom line, if an outfitter doesn't have a web presence in this day in age, I would make damn sure you get some recommendations from other hunters that have been there. If all the reviews look great on a particular outfitter and you have a bad experience, that's another story and should be discussed here.
One more thing, there are two sides to every story and sometimes the hunter is the problem. So any outfitter blasted on a public forum should have chance to defend himself in a respectful way.
Anyone giving out public land info should be banned from the web and beaten with their computer. PM's are another thing all together. Why would anyone who has any common sense feel the need to give the world of complete strangers info on a place they might return to ? Are some folks too dense to understand the lines of lazy people just waiting to get free X's on a map.
Now it is a great idea to share bad experences with outfitters but just like sharing public ground info, your great guided hunt might be negatively effected by hords of new hunters killing birds there if you spill the beans. Telling friends is one thing but dont see the plus side to putting too much info out for a site full of strangers.
Just my .02
Quote from: duxrus on May 15, 2016, 11:19:29 AM
Anyone giving out public land info should be banned from the web and beaten with their computer. PM's are another thing all together. Why would anyone who has any common sense feel the need to give the world of complete strangers info on a place they might return to ? Are some folks too dense to understand the lines of lazy people just waiting to get free X's on a map.
Now it is a great idea to share bad experences with outfitters but just like sharing public ground info, your great guided hunt might be negatively effected by hords of new hunters killing birds there if you spill the beans. Telling friends is one thing but dont see the plus side to putting too much info out for a site full of strangers.
Just my .02
Been dealing with an influx of people on my favorite public spot. The last few years have been getting worse and worse. Just before season i found out there are 2 jack wagons thats been posting alot on facebook for the last several years and they have been saying how great it is and it dont have much pressure lots of birds and plenty of room. All are compltely false. it is only going to get worse. Lucky for me i have hunted it enough to know where there will be birds and how to kill them year after year.
I agree on the sharing of information on public land. Only an idiot would post details. I personally make darned sure I don't post any telling pictures on where I hunt. It's bad enough as it is. I feel for the guys that have had there favorite hot spots ruined by a blabbermouth. Info between friends is one thing but posting online results in thousands of people seeing it and the next thing you know it's gone to pot.