Charles L. Jordan as cited by E.A. McIlhenny in "The Wild Turkey and Its Hunting"
"To learn to imitate the cry of a turkey is no great feat, if you have something to call with and know the sounds you wish to imitate. One can become proficient in the use of the call with reasonable effort; but to expect to call intelligently, without a proper knowledge of the interpretation of the notes produced, is as absurd as to read a foreign language and not know the meaning of the words. Unless you know the meaning of the gobble, the yelp, and cluck, in all their variations, you cannot expect to use the turkey language intelligently. Without such knowledge you will fail to interest the bird you try to call, unless by accident or sheer good luck you brought the cautious thing within sight. It is not desirable, though, that we depend upon luck; one should prefer skill in calling, so that he can at all times depend with a degree of certainty on accomplishing his purpose of fooling the bird... I have known men who could in practice yelp almost as well as the turkey, but when attempting to call the wild bird would do little better than the veriest novice. If such persons' confidence and ability to call did not fail them, their judgment would, and the opportunity would be spoiled by some absurd act.
It is not so much what one should do in calling, but what one should not do, as it is better to leave things undone unless done right. This subject requires the most minute and careful knowledge of turkey lore, and will require much of your patience before you are proficient, and I trust you will find in these lines more for your contemplation than you might suspect."
One can choose to hunt turkeys anyway one wants, but calling the bird to the gun unaided by any visual device is the true essence of turkey hunting and has been so since the 1800s, and probably before. What puzzles me is why the "modern turkey hunter" wastes his money on callers.
While there are certainly those who can imitate a hen, are successful in bringing in gobblers by doing so, and an outdoor industry that has been built on this aspect, it's been explained to me that calling a gobbler by sounding like a hen is against nature, i.e. it's the hen that goes to the gobbler rather than vise versa. With this in mind, I rely on sounding like a gobbler, challenging the peck order that has been established over several weeks of fighting among the toms. This is a natural happening and will often bring in gobblers looking to challenge the intruder. Fighting purrs should do the same thing. In nothing else that I hunt, ranging from squirrels to deer to waterfowl to predators, do I try to go against nature by the calling that I do. This seems to be a common sense approach to calling turkeys.
Quote from: silvestris on May 02, 2016, 05:18:17 PM
One can choose to hunt turkeys anyway one wants, but calling the bird to the gun unaided by any visual device is the true essence of turkey hunting and has been so since the 1800s, and probably before. What puzzles me is why the "modern turkey hunter" wastes his money on callers.
??? I wouldn't necessarily claim it's a waste of money on "callers". To me, the man made turkey call is an instrument - one that when played properly communicates with our intended quarry. There are some that are always looking for the "Holy Grail" of calls that will give them super powers, but I would say most just enjoy trying different calls. Much the same way that a musician is seldom content with just one instrument.
Now, if you meant decoys (?), well, I believe that's a horse that's been beaten...
Quote from: TRG3 on May 02, 2016, 05:34:54 PM
While there are certainly those who can imitate a hen, are successful in bringing in gobblers by doing so, and an outdoor industry that has been built on this aspect, it's been explained to me that calling a gobbler by sounding like a hen is against nature, i.e. it's the hen that goes to the gobbler rather than vise versa. With this in mind, I rely on sounding like a gobbler, challenging the peck order that has been established over several weeks of fighting among the toms. This is a natural happening and will often bring in gobblers looking to challenge the intruder. Fighting purrs should do the same thing. In nothing else that I hunt, ranging from squirrels to deer to waterfowl to predators, do I try to go against nature by the calling that I do. This seems to be a common sense approach to calling turkeys.
As Tom Kelly has recognized, it is the proper use of silence as laid out in pages 188-212 of McIlhenny's book that describes how to deal with the gobbler who has been visited by hens.
Quote from: TRG3 on May 02, 2016, 05:34:54 PM
While there are certainly those who can imitate a hen, are successful in bringing in gobblers by doing so, and an outdoor industry that has been built on this aspect, it's been explained to me that calling a gobbler by sounding like a hen is against nature, i.e. it's the hen that goes to the gobbler rather than vise versa. With this in mind, I rely on sounding like a gobbler, challenging the peck order that has been established over several weeks of fighting among the toms. This is a natural happening and will often bring in gobblers looking to challenge the intruder. Fighting purrs should do the same thing. In nothing else that I hunt, ranging from squirrels to deer to waterfowl to predators, do I try to go against nature by the calling that I do. This seems to be a common sense approach to calling turkeys.
I've listened and witnessed too many gobblers go to hens during pre-season scouting and during actual hunts to put any value in the statement that hunters are reversing nature.
Gobbling is an effective tool, that contingent upon proper utilization can be lethal, however, hen talk and silence will kill more gobblers than gobbling or Jake yelping ever will.
It is natures way that the hen should go to the gobbler. Hence the reason a gobble can be heard farther away than a hens yelp. Are there a lot of gobblers out there that didn't get the memo? Yup!! Both hen calls and gobbler calls can be extremely effective. And both can be ignored by birds. Every bird reacts to calls differently. And each bird might react different on a different day. (Or a different hour!). Only experience and experimentation will show you the best way to deal with a certain bird or a certain situation.
You state that calling a bird to the gun is the essence of turkey hunting.
I must be missing something in your last statement.
"....waste money on callers"
????
Quote from: hobbes on May 02, 2016, 07:26:32 PM
You state that calling a bird to the gun is the essence of turkey hunting.
I must be missing something in your last statement.
"....waste money on callers"
????
Maybe the author meant call using our voices only? I can make a pretty good turkey noise without a call but have NEVER tried it while hunting. Pretty sure I never will. Then again, it would be pretty cool to call one that way............
I think he is suggesting, if you use blinds and flocks of decoys, you are decoying the birds in and not calling them in so the money for calls was wasted just set your blind and decoys in an area turkeys use and shoot them when they come. Maybe I missed it?
Sylvestris ,
I purchased this book upon reading your other mention of it somewhere. I can't wait to dig into it brother!
Ben Lee, Callin" up a turkey is like makin' love to a woman: you caress her, you tell her how wonderful she is, and then it's all over. When you shoot that turkey it's one of the greatest releases in the world, just like after a great love affair. I tell people i would blow the breath back into every turkey I ever killed just so I could go through the whole experience again. When you kill one, that affair is over." If a gobbler is keyed up enough_he"ll respond to the scotching of barbed wire against a fence post or even to the slamming of a car door. EITHER WAY IT'S ALL ABOUT NATURE. EITHER FORWARD OR REVERSE.
Quote from: drenalinld on May 02, 2016, 10:07:51 PM
I think he is suggesting, if you use blinds and flocks of decoys, you are decoying the birds in and not calling them in so the money for calls was wasted just set your blind and decoys in an area turkeys use and shoot them when they come. Maybe I missed it?
Ahhh! Maybe so.
no doubt Charles Jordan was a master Turkey hunter and he probably killed several hundred Gobblers,he also used a rifle and was able to kill the 60-80 yard gobbler and also shot them from the roost so he was no saint.
Quote from: Phillipshunt on May 03, 2016, 05:17:20 AM
no doubt Charles Jordan was a master Turkey hunter and he probably killed several hundred Gobblers,he also used a rifle and was able to kill the 60-80 yard gobbler and also shot them from the roost so he was no saint.
Jordan lived in a different era, but killed probably over 2.000 turkeys. Kelly calls him "Saint Charles of Jordan" for a reason, and I learned that reason early on.
Quote from: drenalinld on May 02, 2016, 10:07:51 PM
I think he is suggesting, if you use blinds and flocks of decoys, you are decoying the birds in and not calling them in so the money for calls was wasted just set your blind and decoys in an area turkeys use and shoot them when they come. Maybe I missed it?
That's exactly what he is saying. He's not saying it's wrong to use decoys and blinds, but he is saying if you do so, calls are simply window dressing to the event. Odds are, the outcome would be the same without them.
What I am saying is that a turkey killed with decoys has been bought. The blinds are of no concern to me if one can stand the confinement as one has to hide properly; I prefer a couple of branches stuck up in front of me. However, the earned turkey requires much effort to learn the turkey's language and engage it properly. That is what Jordan is speaking of.
Oh, to hear Ken Morgan say again the words he said to me so many times, anybody can kill a turkey, but there ain't many that know how to hunt them".
Quote from: silvestris on May 03, 2016, 03:22:36 PM
What I am saying is that a turkey killed with decoys has been bought. The blinds are of no concern to me if one can stand the confinement as one has to hide properly; I prefer a couple of branches stuck up in front of me. However, the earned turkey requires much effort to learn the turkey's language and engage it properly. That is what Jordan is speaking of.
Oh, to hear Ken Morgan say again the words he said to me so many times, anybody can kill a turkey, but there ain't many that know how to hunt them".
Fool their sight = Bought. Fool their hearing = Earned. Got it.
Exactly, if you learn how to call and hunt turkeys you don't need decoys or fans or any gimmicks to cheapen the experience. This comes down to respect also; the old school turkey hunting and old school hunters respect the quarry. This new breed that uses decoys and fans and some of them shoot rifles are just out to kill. If they knew how to turkey hunt they wouldn't need all those gimmicks to cheapen the experience and show disrespect to the gobbler in such a way that he appears a fool the way he acts. They are just killing not hunting at all. Just looking for shortcuts and gimmicks cause they don't know how to turkey hunt or won't bother to pay their dues and learn the right way to hunt them. This new breed will be the demise of turkey hunting.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 03, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
Exactly, if you learn how to call and hunt turkeys you don't need decoys or fans or any gimmicks to cheapen the experience. This comes down to respect also; the old school turkey hunting and old school hunters respect the quarry. This new breed that uses decoys and fans and some of them shoot rifles are just out to kill. If they knew how to turkey hunt they wouldn't need all those gimmicks to cheapen the experience and show disrespect to the gobbler in such a way that he appears a fool the way he acts. They are just killing not hunting at all. Just looking for shortcuts and gimmicks cause they don't know how to turkey hunt or won't bother to pay their dues and learn the right way to hunt them. This new breed will be the demise of turkey hunting.
Old school hunter = Respectful. New school hunter = Disrespectful. Got it.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 03, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
Exactly, if you learn how to call and hunt turkeys you don't need decoys or fans or any gimmicks to cheapen the experience. This comes down to respect also; the old school turkey hunting and old school hunters respect the quarry. This new breed that uses decoys and fans and some of them shoot rifles are just out to kill. If they knew how to turkey hunt they wouldn't need all those gimmicks to cheapen the experience and show disrespect to the gobbler in such a way that he appears a fool the way he acts. They are just killing not hunting at all. Just looking for shortcuts and gimmicks cause they don't know how to turkey hunt or won't bother to pay their dues and learn the right way to hunt them. This new breed will be the demise of turkey hunting.
This horse has been beat also. This is the kind of crap that needs to STOP!
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 03, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
Old school hunter = Respectful. New school hunter = Disrespectful. Got it.
I do not choose to use the word disrespectful. I think they demand success and have bought at a huge price into the hands of those who want to separate them from their hard-earned cash. I do not think there are many who wish to disrespect the bird or themselves. I used a decoy some for a year or two and I did not like the effect they had on the birds; they deprive the bird of its natural wildness.
I don't want to start any ish or call anyone out, and honestly don't know why I'm even commenting...
but am I the only one that sees the same amount of BS slathered over elitist posts like these as I do hunting turkeys with a flipping umbrella? Both equally ignorant in my book.
Too each their own.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 03, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
Exactly, if you learn how to call and hunt turkeys you don't need decoys or fans or any gimmicks to cheapen the experience. This comes down to respect also; the old school turkey hunting and old school hunters respect the quarry. This new breed that uses decoys and fans and some of them shoot rifles are just out to kill. If they knew how to turkey hunt they wouldn't need all those gimmicks to cheapen the experience and show disrespect to the gobbler in such a way that he appears a fool the way he acts. They are just killing not hunting at all. Just looking for shortcuts and gimmicks cause they don't know how to turkey hunt or won't bother to pay their dues and learn the right way to hunt them. This new breed will be the demise of turkey hunting.
I have to laugh every time some says "respect for the quarry"! We're out there trying to kill an animal. That animal isn't going to say "oh, they are using a respectable method to kill me so it's alright!" Come on guys! Get down off your high horse and admit that you are hunting to kill something and that you feel a personal satisfaction for doing it you're own way, and let others feel the same satisfaction for doing it their way! I'm sure no turkey out there ever cared how it was killed. Why must we keep judge ing others on how they kill their birds?
^^^ AMEN to that
I sometimes use decoys. Sometimes I don't. Don't anyone dare to tell me that I don't respect and admire these birds. I could say a lot more. I'm gonna stop though.