Questions to you guys that have hunted through outfitters because you needed access to a place to hunt somewhere:
Why is it that turkey hunting outfitters think that they are the world's foremost authorities on wild turkeys and also the best turkey callers on the planet?
Why is it that they can't understand that many of us that go on expensive, out-of-state hunts already know how to hunt turkeys and how to call,...and just need access to a place to hunt?
Why is it that they don't understand that we don't want to spend a bunch of money to have them lead us around by the hand and have them to do all the calling?
Why is it they just can't get the hell out of the way and let us hunt turkeys the way we want to?....
Why is it that you can explain all of the above to them,...and then when you get there they still want to do exactly what you asked them not to do?...
Turkey hunting outfitters.....Arghhhh!!!
...End of rant....
I understand completely. Like you I want to be involved in every facet of the hunt and not just a trigger puller.
Maybe because they don't want someone wondering all over their property or properties pushing the birds off on neighboring properties? And maybe they've been told this by others in the past and those persons didn't get a bird then they get on the web and run down their opporation?
I've always had good experience hunting with the outfitters I used. I had the run of 3 places when I showed up and even guided for one outfitter a couple times. But I'm bowhunting.
Quote from: bigbird on March 27, 2016, 02:10:05 PM
Maybe because they don't want someone wondering all over their property or properties pushing the birds off on neighboring properties? And maybe they've been told this by others in the past and those persons didn't get a bird then they get on the web and run down their opporation?
That's the reason right there. One of my good buddies runs a good sized operation in KS and NE - they'll kill 150 turkeys this year.
He has to hunt those birds all season long...and as much as you like calling, he doesn't want a calling contest going on and having birds get blown out.
He knows what works on his property. He calls sparingly. Maybe every 15 to 30 minutes and he tends to 'drop anchor' and stay in one spot. In the past when he has let the guys who think they are God's gift to truly hinting they call 10 times more than they need to. They can't sit on one spot, and then when they decide to move they magically end up a mile off the property and he has to deal with the pissed off landowner...
Quote from: bigbird on March 27, 2016, 02:10:05 PM
Maybe because they don't want someone wondering all over their property or properties pushing the birds off on neighboring properties? And maybe they've been told this by others in the past and those persons didn't get a bird then they get on the web and run down their opporation?
Maybe you misunderstood. If a hunter specifically states what he is looking for in a hunt,...and the outfitter agrees to provide that, then he should do so. If the outfitter cannot provide the type of opportunity the hunter is looking for, then he should just say so and the hunter can look for something more suitable. Misrepresentation of what an outfitter is providing on a hunt is not acceptable, and it is especially not acceptable when the hunter spends a great deal of time and money to get there and the outfitter changes the agreed-upon parameters of the hunt.
Guess I'm fortunate...Never had any of the problems you speak of with outfitters.
Sorry, I did misunderstand you. Re read the original post and didn't see any talk of an agreement of that.
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 27, 2016, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: bigbird on March 27, 2016, 02:10:05 PM
Maybe because they don't want someone wondering all over their property or properties pushing the birds off on neighboring properties? And maybe they've been told this by others in the past and those persons didn't get a bird then they get on the web and run down their opporation?
Maybe you misunderstood. If a hunter specifically states what he is looking for in a hunt,...and the outfitter agrees to provide that, then he should do so. If the outfitter cannot provide the type of opportunity the hunter is looking for, then he should just say so and the hunter can look for something more suitable. Misrepresentation of what an outfitter is providing on a hunt is not acceptable, and it is especially not acceptable when the hunter spends a great deal of time and money to get there and the outfitter changes the agreed-upon parameters of the hunt.
Agreed .
Quote from: JK Spurs on March 27, 2016, 03:43:33 PM
Guess I'm fortunate...Never had any of the problems you speak of with outfitters.
Actually, I suspect the great majority of outfitters are probably just fine. It is just that several of us just recently spent the better part of a week dealing with one that wasn't. It is frustrating when you find yourselves in a situation where you spend most of your time wondering why you wasted your time and money to end up in a situation like that. I suppose I just needed to blow off some smoke about the whole ordeal.
When I talk to a new outfitter, I try to feel him out if he is a over manager type. I make it clear I'm looking for a semi-guided hunt...show me where the birds are, show me the property lines and get the hell out of the way. After that, a pillow to lay my head and a place to heat some food and I'm good. The least I ask of or expect, the happier I find the hunt.
Gman
Quote from: Gamblinman on March 27, 2016, 05:16:11 PM
When I talk to a new outfitter, I try to feel him out if he is a over manager type. I make it clear I'm looking for a semi-guided hunt...show me where the birds are, show me the property lines and get the hell out of the way. After that, a pillow to lay my head and a place to heat some food and I'm good. The least I ask of or expect, the happier I find the hunt.
Gman
Exactly. ...And when you make that absolutely clear to someone and they say "yes, I understand and we will do it that way",...and then you show up and all of a sudden they want to micro-manage your hunt,...well, that does not set too well with some of us.
When I go on out-of-state hunts, I go there to challenge my turkey hunting skills against the birds that live there. I would rather go home empty-handed than to be force-fed the hunt by the outfitter and do nothing but pull the trigger when a gobbler shows up at some food plot that they have been habituated to going to. If I can't kill a bird with my own calling skills and woods skills, I am happy to head for home afterwards with my tail tucked between my legs. It is the quality of the hunt that is important, not just the shooting of a gobbler.
Gobble nut - where were you and what kind of birds were you chasing?
I'm sorry your hunt didn't go the way you wanted. Sounds like you did a good job communicating wth the outfitter and he just didn't hear what you were saying.
My buddy the outfitter is a bit of a control enthusiast. He let's us do the self guided deal, but he also gets pizzed because he still wants us to do it his way, and we never listen - that's just what friends do. ;D
He is a big an of sitting, anchors down, until 11. I have A-D-D. I have 60 minutes of patience, top, and I'm wheels up to make a move on a bird.
If you were in NE/KS or looking to go there I know another outfitter that definitely will let you do your own deal - put you on a patch of land and let you go.
Quote from: spaightlabs on March 27, 2016, 07:28:23 PM
Gobble nut - where were you and what kind of birds were you chasing?
I'm sorry your hunt didn't go the way you wanted. Sounds like you did a good job communicating wth the outfitter and he just didn't hear what you were saying.
My buddy the outfitter is a bit of a control enthusiast. He let's us do the self guided deal, but he also gets pizzed because he still wants us to do it his way, and we never listen - that's just what friends do. ;D
He is a big an of sitting, anchors down, until 11. I have A-D-D. I have 60 minutes of patience, top, and I'm wheels up to make a move on a bird.
If you were in NE/KS or looking to go there I know another outfitter that definitely will let you do your own deal - put you on a patch of land and let you go.
You sound like me spaightlabs. :TooFunny:
We were hunting Easterns,...but I would rather not divulge anything more. I'm not trying to start a pissin' match with anybody,...just trying to present a "teachable moment" for both outfitters and hunters to make sure they understand each other before the hunt. I think there are many of us that do not want to pay good money to "deer hunt" turkeys.
I appreciate your offer about info in the NE/KS area. I hope to make it up that way at some point in the future and may get in touch.
.... they make more money if they iclude lodging, meals, guides, etc.... got a outfitter here in Co that only charges a trespass fee of your interested, its a Merriam hunt.
This is always what scares me about booking a hunt. I always worry if I'll be able to do things my way or be babysat and spoon fed the whole time. That being said, I totally understand the outfitters for doing what they do. They deal with all sorts of people all the time. I'm sure they have people who tell them that they're experts and don't need help and are really just beginners with the "I killed 2 birds at home so I can kill birds anywhere anytime" mentality. They make their living doing this and every unsuccessful hunter is potentially a bad review and black mark on their season. But I do agree that if they say that you can hunt the way you want then they should stand by their word.
Little perspective from the other side, I have guided turkey hunts over the past 15 years, I used to have large groups of non guided hunters and thought it was great, easy money. My guided hunts were primarily guys who had little to no experience, and trust me guys everyone is an expert that shows up to hunt, however if guys were up front about what they wanted I never had an issue with letting them do there thing.
Keep in mind many of these self proclaimed experts were begging for help 2 days into a hunt when they had yet to connect, yet covered up in birds, hell I a client yell at me for calling to a bird too much after he shot it, I was literally laughing at him while he complained about my calling while his bird was still flopping around in the pasture.
If you book an unguided hunt I don't see where there is a problem, and if you pay for a guided hunt and do not need a guide then your just wasting money!
Did some guiding early in my turkey hunting career, things were always made clear on what you were paying for
Fully Guided (Included everything from a place to stay/eat/sleep to after the hunt was done)
Guided (I was there to do everything on the hunt other than pull the trigger)
Semi-Guided (You were put on land, shown boundaries, given tips on where birds were have been)
Un-Guided (You had land access, and boundaries of property...)
MK M GOBL
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 27, 2016, 03:32:44 PM
If a hunter specifically states what he is looking for in a hunt,...and the outfitter agrees to provide that, then he should do so. If the outfitter cannot provide the type of opportunity the hunter is looking for, then he should just say so and the hunter can look for something more suitable. Misrepresentation of what an outfitter is providing on a hunt is not acceptable, and it is especially not acceptable when the hunter spends a great deal of time and money to get there and the outfitter changes the agreed-upon parameters of the hunt.
I have done a number of guided fly-fishing trips and a few waterfowl hunts... I have learned to email the outfitters as to my expectations. When they respond to the email stating that my requests can be met, it is tough for them to argue that they never said any such thing when I pull out that printed copy of the email they sent... (I have had that exact situation occur).
I've never messed with an outfitter, but my guess is that a lot of their customers are clueless and just want to experience turkey hunting. So they are used to leading people around by the hand and doing all the calling. I wonder how many experienced turkey hunters most outfitters will take in? Maybe it's not many... I don't really know.
Quote from: catman529 on March 27, 2016, 10:36:03 PM
I've never messed with an outfitter, but my guess is that a lot of their customers are clueless and just want to experience turkey hunting. So they are used to leading people around by the hand and doing all the calling. I wonder how many experienced turkey hunters most outfitters will take in? Maybe it's not many... I don't really know.
Having utilized and coming to know some hunting and fishing guides (never turkey thought), most say it is about 10-20 percent proficient clients, maybe 20 percent somewhat proficient, and the rest would completely flounder without guidance.
In contrast 80% of clients will profess to be very experienced and proficient...
With fishing guides, most have been very proficient... With hunting guides I have seen some degree of variability...
My main goal with a hunting guide is to get access to a good location, and be put in an area with birds... Myself and the guys I hunt with prefer a "hands-off" guide, and many do not care for that at all.
Quote from: bigbird on March 27, 2016, 02:10:05 PM
Maybe because they don't want someone wondering all over their property or properties pushing the birds off on neighboring properties? And maybe they've been told this by others in the past and those persons didn't get a bird then they get on the web and run down their opporation?
90%+ likely this...
Everyone is an expert until they can't locate birds...
The only real remedy is to find good outfitters and stick with them...
Quote from: bigbird on March 27, 2016, 02:10:05 PM
Maybe because they don't want someone wondering all over their property or properties pushing the birds off on neighboring properties? And maybe they've been told this by others in the past and those persons didn't get a bird then they get on the web and run down their opporation?
90%+ likely this...
Everyone is an expert until they can't locate birds...
The only real remedy is to find good outfitters and stick with them...