So, I've been chasing these crazy birds for a little over a decade (got started later in life than some) and I'm obsessed like I imagine most of the rest of the hunters are on this board.... I buy more pot calls, decoys and "stuff" than I would need in a lifetime and would need a Sherpa just to get it all in the field. Heck, I even started teaching both my kids how to call turkeys even before they could read... We drive my wife crazy through the winter months as we practice calling and set up imaginary sets in the living room. But, I've never once... Not even for grins, patterned my shotgun. Not once. Don't get me wrong, I'm fascinated by science, physics, have studied more advanced mathematics than should even exist...But I have not a single care in the world how many BB's can hit in a 10" circle at 40 yards. Now, I'm totally setting myself up for this one by putting it writing but I've put the dirt nap on my share of birds and shall I say not nary a single one has taken a single step. Ok, I know what's next, and honestly maybe that will force me into the whole "pattern" your gun thing... But I guess I'm just not seeing it.. If I can shoulder my gun and hit a dove moving at 20 mph at forty yards- why do I need to get any more precise to hit a turkey's head standing a mere 25 yards standing still? Please convince me I need one more thing to obsess over!!! After all, it sound like fun, stocking up on some choke tubes and some more no. 5's... Or should I get 6's? Ugh.
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Honestly, this is my first year hunting these birds, but I am absolutely fascinated by patterning. I went out the other day and did it for the first time and as soon as I left the range I was thinking about what I could do to make my patterns better. I got bit by the bug BAD. I've been buying calls and strikers, watching videos on turkey sounds, and in fact I bought 3 more strikers today. lol. I think patterning is just one more thing to hold me over and keep me excited until the season comes. Just like bowhunting deer. My bow shoots better than i ever could, but I'm always tinkering with it. Researching what i can do better, getting different arrows, trying different point weights, etc... it's just more of the obsession and cures cabin fever for me.
Sounds like You've convinced yourself. :). It can be fun for sure.
Also sounds like you've been fortunate out of the gate with a combination that works. You confirmed it on a turkeys head. Most of us prefer to confirm on paper first. Though it's entirely possible that you do not need to confirm, as you mentioned, it's much wiser to be sure that your combination is adequate first. Especially considering that the loads and chokes most popular for turkey hunting are more prone to throw some erratic patterns compared to standard dove loads with a full or improved choke. To assume otherwise is probably irresponsible.
Your doing it backwards compared to most. Wish you well and hope you do not enter the field with a new combination without testing it first.
Sounds like I have
Thanks guys- great responses so far. RH- you've touched on something there with the loads and chokes most popular for turkey hunting are more prone to throw erratic patterns. Have you guys found that to be the case? I ask that sincerely because I've shot sporting clays since I was a kid (not competitively) and always tossed in a choke tube and some number 8's and was able to hit a decent number of clays. This translated over to turkey hunting when I started I just bought some turkey shells and an undertaker and started killing turkeys. As most things, I got more and more involved and started seeing guys post about BB count but figured it wasn't broken- why fix it? I guess I've been fortunate, but will different set ups produce vastly different results?
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Thats a very good question. Personally, I just REALLY got into doing it last year. I mean, I've shot at turkey targets and counted BB's in the head/neck (although that means nothing), but never really did the whole 10" circle thing. Until last year anyway. I started doing it because it actually sounded like a lot of fun and turned out it really was. My 835 has never missed a bird and I already know what pattern it throws. But playing around with different choke/shell combos and seeing what they do is fun.
Maybe someone else has a better answer, but this is why i pattern.
I get what you're saying.. I'm just wanting a real good even pattern. However... sometimes it does lead to some counting :blob10: There's just great info on the OG site to help obtain maximum performance out of our turkey guns. Maybe we're just Turkey hunting FAN...ATICS!
:funnyturkey:
I agree it's mostly about just getting out and having fun with some buddies or your kids. With a good choke and load almost every 20 and 12 ga will kill a turkey with no prob. Even without patterning. Its just fun trying out new products and comparing them with others. For me personally after the bills are paid, it gives me something to spend my money on and i can go to work knowing that I hopefully can buy more products to try for the sport I love so much. Thinking about a new choke and load combo have gotten me through some tough nite shifts just waiting to get to try them. That's just the way I look at it. But I understand where ur coming from. My wife would definitely agree with you. She thinks it's crazy too
Point of aim , point of impact check.
Some loads don't perform well at all at out to 40 yards.
Case in point. Try some Hornady turkey loads! :newmascot:
If you shoot 20- 30, great , they are alot of fun closer.
I don't think you have to be a numbers chaser on paper targets to be a turkey hunter. I do think hunters should know what their gun and ammo is doing.
I have more than one turkey gun and I just want to know they are shooting where I aim when I go hunting so I can harvest a turkey cleanly and humanely.
You apparently know your gun very well or are lucky that it shots to your point of aim.
I hunt deer with a bow and rifle....I sight them in.
To me its just a normal part of hunting preparation.
What he said. I misted my first bird totally at 20 yds because I didn't know my gun shot high and to the right. Never patterned it until after I had missed my first bird. Besides, they shoot different with various loads and chokes.
Also, there are differences between your first shot, second shot , third shot, etc. some guns get better after being shot a few times, some don't!!!
Practice makes perfect. And I do believe that number of pellets in a 10 inch circle does matter when you're shooting at a target the size of a baseball at 40 yards. The more pellets the better the odds. That and a nice even pattern.
Quote from: owlhoot on February 25, 2016, 10:08:46 PM
Point of aim , point of impact check.
Some loads don't perform well at all at out to 40 yards.
Case in point. Try some Hornady turkey loads! :newmascot:
If you shoot 20- 30, great , they are alot of fun closer.
This is exactly why I pattern. I could care less about the number of pellets in a 10" circle. I'm looking for a good, even pattern, not too open and not too constricted without large gaps and that my POA/POI are aligned. And every shell/choke combo will be different in each gun, and that can be part of the fun. I took my brother to pattern his gun last year (he had never done it before) and he was shocked to see that it hit about 6" to the right of his POA (fixed sites). Had a great pattern, but if he had gone out without patterning, he would have probably missed anything he shot at.
You sound like my brother.
He has been shooting 2 3/4" winchester #4's for over 20 years. Has never missed a bird and is probably only on his second box in all those years. Since we hunt NY its only a 2 bird season. And thats on a real lucky year.He watches me blow about 500$ a year at the patterning board. He thinks I may be crazy. When we go afield he slips 2 shells into his win 1300. Last year he did finally let me deep clean his barrel.
Quote from: Mike Honcho on February 25, 2016, 10:25:25 PM
I don't think you have to be a numbers chaser on paper targets to be a turkey hunter. I do think hunters should know what their gun and ammo is doing.
I have more than one turkey gun and I just want to know they are shooting where I aim when I go hunting so I can harvest a turkey cleanly and humanely.
You apparently know your gun very well or are lucky that it shots to your point of aim.
I hunt deer with a bow and rifle....I sight them in.
To me its just a normal part of hunting preparation.
This is what I was getting at. I don't spend much time trying loads and chokes. I have tried a few out of curiosity but I am not on a quest to find better. I've shot this shotgun for 22 years for everything. But I tested it on paper to verify before attempting to hunt with it.
I did the same for years, now I'm numbers junkie. I'd be willing to bet that the best part of your pattern is not where your are putting the bead. The more I shoot the less I trust them, they very rarely shoot true. Also to compare wing shooting to killing a turkey is apples to oranges. Wing shooting takes much more skill, I think of turkey hunting more along the lines of rifle hunting rather than shot gunning. You also probably cursed yourself, now your doomed to miss one or two this season.
The reason you should do it is most simply you owe it to the game you hunt to know for certain you give your best effort to make a killing shot. The tighter the choke restriction and the heavier the payload the less likely POI will match POA. With turkey chokes and heavy turkey loads it is more likely than not these will not match. Shooting 40 yard patterns is certainly eye opening. If I kept the shots to 25 yards or less as you talked about I wouldn't bother with turkey loads or turkey chokes. Just shoot high brass pheasant loads and factory full.
I dont chase numbers anymore but do like to know how a certain load/choke combo is going to perform.POI/POA is crazy different from setup to setup in some guns. Once I find a combo that is close on POI/POA then I look at pattern densitys. Ill right it down in a notebook so I know what works and what dont.I like to look for solid even coverage more so that just giant numbers in a 10".
For me there are several reasons for doing it and most of them have been mentioned. 1. POA/POI issues, I want my gun to shoot POA/POI because most of today's shells and chokes shoot so tight I want to know what my gun does at close range. My 835 shot low right when I first got it so I put a Red dot on it to correct that problem. 2. I don't chase numbers but I sure want to know what my pattern does at 40 yards to see if I have enough pellets to kill ethically if that shot presents itself. 3. Each of us owe it to the turkeys we hunt, to make an ethical kill. That is why we should know what our gun, ammo and choke will and won't do at all ranges. You normally sight in a rifle or slug gun for deer, why wouldn't you do that for turkeys. With todays technology, we aren't shooting our Grandfather's scatter gun at turkeys anymore.
Sometimes you can over think it. I've tried numerous shell choke combinations and always seem to come back to my original set-up. I guess some feel the need to chase numbers. I've finally realized I'm not getting any better numbers than I'm getting now. I've got enough shells to last the rest of my life.
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Thanks for all the great replies- I just might have to put a shot or two at some targets before the season cranks up here in a couple of weeks.
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Like others have said to check POI. The biggest thig I take from it is confidence I know how my shell is performing at various distances. Takes all uncertainty out of the equation
Quote from: Hansonc on February 27, 2016, 05:55:00 PM
Like others have said to check POI. The biggest thig I take from it is confidence I know how my shell is performing at various distances. Takes all uncertainty out of the equation
I learned the POI lesson years ago on a Mossberg 500. Bought a Hastings choke tube, ran some Winchester lead #5 and found the gun was 3 - 4 inches left and couple inches low.
When Hevishot hit a few years back it was exciting to see what everyone was doing. I tried a JH with Hevi 13 #7, and liked what I got, bought a bunch of the Hevi and good since. I know what I got will get the job done.
I shoot ducks and geese and when trying a new load (speed, weight, brand, etc) I pattern them in my gun. I have found that my gun does not like Rio steel, but loves the cheap Federal Blue Box. I have killed birds in large numbers with confidence. If I miss, it is because of me, not the gun or the pattern. I just want a nice even spread at 35 yards.
I have missed a turkey at 35 yards. To this day, I do not know why. I had patterned my gun, took it home and shot it afterwards. It was not a rushed shot, I can still see the sight picture and feel the surprise of the report as the gun went off and where I was aiming. I do not like how that makes me feel even today, 4-5 years later, and I will do everything I can to not feel that again. But that is just me.
I enjoy the patterning process...
Probably doesn't matter to many, but it matters to me, and that's all that really counts...
In my 35+- years of hunting them, I've had some tough hunts saved by good equipment...
Sure, I prefer chip shots, but life is not all chip shots...
I like to know what my guns are capable of...
The turkey & weather gods don't seem to care that I only have a few days to hunt in other states or areas....
A well patterned gun can be a good equalizer...
At the same time, I hunts ducks & geese 30-40 times a year, and have not patterned a duck gun or shot trap/sheet in maybe 20 years...
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I put to much time into scouting and making sure I have everything I want/need to kill a bird to not know what my gun can do at different ranges. I chase 10" and 20" numbers to have full confidence that when I pull the trigger at X yards the bird is not going to walk away.
Quote from: Planner on February 26, 2016, 09:06:13 PM
Thanks for all the great replies- I just might have to put a shot or two at some targets before the season cranks up here in a couple of weeks.
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Be sure to shoot at a large piece of paper ( I use a 3'x3') that way you will see the difference...if there is any... between POA/POI. To answer your question ....In my humble opinion....when I first started it was out of necessity so I could learn about the aforementioned difference POA/POI , the limits of my set-up,and to see what the best possible set-up is.Now,its more so I can try and improve my pattern,and the limits of my set-up....not to mention its a whole great big bunch of fun to get together with some buddies and shoot with them,and also help them or new people be more successful,and to learn some new stuff myself!!!! From listening to what you been saying , it sounds like you have have a great set-up ,and know the limits of it....keep on puttin' em ' down!!!! :OGturkeyhead:
I consider my turkey gun more like a slug gun considering how close most of the turkeys I kill with it are. You need to know what works best. Patterning your gun will only help you understand where the best part of your pattern is and reveal any poor performing shells. It may also identify holes or weak sections in the pattern, which could lead to wounded or injured birds. At mid-range hunting shots it shouldn't matter much, but at longer range, why not have the most efficient pattern possible?
Good luck.
Jim
I always check a new gun/load for Poi. That being said, my uncle has hunted his whole life with an Ithaca 37 modified choke and 2 3/4 loads(whatever brand is cheapest when he needs shells). Don't thinks he's ever shot a shotgun shell at paper in his life and he kills his longbeard every year. But the modified choke gives him a little room for error and I don't think he's ever pulled the trigger on one over 30 yards. So he considers shooting a shell at paper to be a waste of time and money.
Never heard of "patterning" until I joined this site.
Now I my gun, ammo, and choke combos have vastly changed I require reddots on all my turkey guns and my effective range has increased drastically.
One other way to fuel the obsession.
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Quote from: Farmboy27 on March 21, 2016, 06:48:06 PM
I always check a new gun/load for Poi. That being said, my uncle has hunted his whole life with an Ithaca 37 modified choke and 2 3/4 loads(whatever brand is cheapest when he needs shells). Don't thinks he's ever shot a shotgun shell at paper in his life and he kills his longbeard every year. But the modified choke gives him a little room for error and I don't think he's ever pulled the trigger on one over 30 yards. So he considers shooting a shell at paper to be a waste of time and money.
Not pulling the trigger at one over 30 yards being the key. I shot a old pump marked MOD. for a dozen years with 2 3/4" Remington Express Mag 6's, surprisingly it did fairly well on the paper and the birds, I did pattern it with different loads and shot sizes though , learned about that in 1978.
Quote from: owlhoot on March 21, 2016, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on March 21, 2016, 06:48:06 PM
I always check a new gun/load for Poi. That being said, my uncle has hunted his whole life with an Ithaca 37 modified choke and 2 3/4 loads(whatever brand is cheapest when he needs shells). Don't thinks he's ever shot a shotgun shell at paper in his life and he kills his longbeard every year. But the modified choke gives him a little room for error and I don't think he's ever pulled the trigger on one over 30 yards. So he considers shooting a shell at paper to be a waste of time and money.
Not pulling the trigger at one over 30 yards being the key. I shot a old pump marked MOD. for a dozen years with 2 3/4" Remington Express Mag 6's, surprisingly it did fairly well on the paper and the birds, I did pattern it with different loads and shot sizes though , learned about that in 1978.
Yup. getting them close makes up for a lot. That is really what the game is about and what makes it fun!
Quote from: Farmboy27 on March 21, 2016, 08:33:57 PM
Quote from: owlhoot on March 21, 2016, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on March 21, 2016, 06:48:06 PM
I always check a new gun/load for Poi. That being said, my uncle has hunted his whole life with an Ithaca 37 modified choke and 2 3/4 loads(whatever brand is cheapest when he needs shells). Don't thinks he's ever shot a shotgun shell at paper in his life and he kills his longbeard every year. But the modified choke gives him a little room for error and I don't think he's ever pulled the trigger on one over 30 yards. So he considers shooting a shell at paper to be a waste of time and money.
Not pulling the trigger at one over 30 yards being the key. I shot a old pump marked MOD. for a dozen years with 2 3/4" Remington Express Mag 6's, surprisingly it did fairly well on the paper and the birds, I did pattern it with different loads and shot sizes though , learned about that in 1978.
Yup. getting them close makes up for a lot. That is really what the game is about and what makes it fun!
What else would be fun is to sneak that gun out and pattern it, post it up here. Just dont get caught :bike2:
My best friend is the same way. Been shooting the same combo since the early 90's. He hits a bird they don't twitch! Winchester supreme #5's. Factory choke. Nothing fancy
Why pattern? I feel you owe it to the game
You are pursuing. Patterning your gun for optimal
Pattern density at 40 yards or less is the
Ethical/Respectful thing to do.
Enough said.
I don't have to count how many pellets in a target to know if I have a good pattern. Once I get it sighted in, its good... That doesn't mean I won't check it every once in awhile on paper. The price of these shells nowadays, shooting shells at paper is a waste of money!! IMO But whatever floats your boat, more power too you! :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
Quote from: turkeywhisperer935 on February 26, 2016, 07:00:15 AM
Practice makes perfect. And I do believe that number of pellets in a 10 inch circle does matter when you're shooting at a target the size of a baseball at 40 yards. The more pellets the better the odds. That and a nice even pattern.
I keep reading about a target the size of a baseball. You are not shooting at a target thesize of a baseball. You are shooting at a target the size of a 20 ounce bottle cap sitting on a pencil. Pellets in the head and neck that do not cause trama to the brain and/or spine do not count. A turkey can get away with these hits and it happens more than people admit because they just say oh well I missed. This is the reason to pattern your gun. I hqve great guns but they are only great with the right ammo. I can put 200+ in a 10 with one load and 60 in a 10 with another load. Which one do you think has the better chance of not wounding a bird?
I pattern my turkey slaying machines to determine which is the most efficient load to use. I don't chase numbers but the evenness of the pattern on target. I've been doing this for 25-yrs and my addiction is getting worse. Good luck.
I'm glad that you hit on a good load without patterning, many times the results aren't so good. I think if the load you use hadn't been the turkey slayer It's proven to be, you'd see things differently. I've seen load and gun combinations that I wouldn't be comfortable hunting rabbits with, but with a little experimentation they became turkey killing machines. :z-twocents:
Bob