Hi everyone,
I have only 5 years of turkey hunting under my belt, so I am always looking for wisdom from the veteran hunters, that have much more time in the field than myself.
I am looking for feed back on your definition of "over calling". Does this definition change if your blindly calling in hopes of a response from a Tom vs calling to an identified Tom that might still be out of site?
I turkey hunt the same woods I archery hunt for whitetails in the fall, so I have become familiar with the geographical layout, and how animals behave in the woods. In these woods I rarely see lonely hens not calling out, especially if they are calm. They always seem to be communicating. They typically will produce a small, soft cluck every 8 - 10 seconds.......cluck..........cluck............cluck, and very rarely keep quiet, unless a threat is present. Now these sounds are not loud at all. Once out to 100-150 yards the sound is pretty much lost. These are calming sounds from a solo hen or pair of hens. Most often, there is less communication among flocks of 4 or greater.
As a hunter, my goal is to mimic the solo hen in hopes that a love stricken Tom hears me and seeks me out. I wonder why I should wait 25, 30, 45 minutes between calling? Wouldn't soft, subtle clucks and purrs every few minutes be preferred? When guys say they wait 20-45 minutes before calling, I find myself wondering how many times a solo Tom has slipped by within that time period, where a soft cluck every 1-2 minutes could have provided enough communication to catch his attention if it only was a for a second or two.
What are your thoughts to over calling.
Shawn
Interesting. I can't wait to hear the opinions from the guys who have killed a bunch of birds over the years.
I guess my definition of over-calling would be calling to the point that it turns off a turkey that had previously been interested and responding.
That being said............ I pride myself in over-calling.
I am fully aware of how I need to call if I positively HAVE GOT to kill a bird. But at this point in my turkey hunting career, I don't have to kill one that bad anymore. I would rather call too much and call too loud to fire a bird up. It doesn't turn my crank too much to kill one that comes in silent. I want him strutting and gobbling his ying yang off the whole way in.
Yoder I like your answer. You also have to read the gobbler and how they are acting that particular day. You want him to hunt YOU. So overcalling can easily give up your position and you will get busted without ever even seeing a turkey.
Reading the bird as Kentuckyheadhunter stated is key. Some birds like to be called hard n fast some need to be coaxed. Yoder was also correct that if your calling is negatively affecting the bird is could be over calling. He's also correct in that it's a lot more fun when they hammer back at you n you get to use your calls. That's why fight sequences can be so entertaining.
Think about something though, if you start out hard n fast it's really hard to go back. Best start out light n gauge reaction, if it's working do nothing more or less.
One big mistake I see happening is on Tom's that have hens. Most people still try and work the Tom which is the wrong aproach. He ain't going anywhere those hens ain't going. If you can get the lead hen to answer you then start mimicking her and cutting her off. Get her mad and headed to you then odds are good that big boy will be bringing up the rear. Conservative usually wins but sometimes you gotta give them the kitchen sink.
Every bird is different and that is what makes turkey calling so exciting and challenging. Figuring out what that birds mood is and what he wants to hear. Even the same bird can respond differently to calling on different days. Sometimes you have to call a ton sometimes you have to call very little or not at all. Or in between... Should you be Aggressive or use soft subtle calling. So to me it varies greatly and figuring these things out is what separates the avg callers and the great ones.
Splinter, your far a head of most of the today turkey hunters. Birds communicate a lot more than what hunters believe they do, BUT they've tried their way of calling with no response. The term "over calling" is so miss used and misunderstood by todays hunters. Birds are very vocal, the more birds in a group the they talk, your lone birds are your quiet ones, they do a lot less talking. They don't want to make themselves apparent or stand out, because of predators, so they keep their talking to a low tone (old hen) or very short bursts of mid tone (young hen) calls. A low tone call is a call that most hunters couldn't hear at 25-30yds, so hunters think they aren't talking today or you shouldn't be calling, UNTRUE, learn how to run your calls in a low tone and talk a bird right up until you pull the trigger on them. Hunters will tell you, you shouldn't call to a bird that's committed and coming towards you, or stop calling to a bird that's within 75yds of you or you'll spook him. If that bird can see through the area your hunting, if you keep calling to him in the same talk, tone, and cadence as you were when you stuck him up, yeah he'll lock up or run off, if it's thick woods or cover where he can't see very far you can get away with being a bit to loud or to fast in your cadences, but never run the same volume or cadence over an over or the same call talk. You'll hear young/new hunters and quite a few champion calls, OVER CALL. It's the nature of a human being, lol. Young hunters haven't learned yet and they are so determined to kill a bird they just keep calling over and over, the same tone, same cadence, same bird talk, yelp.....yelp....yelp....yelp ect. ect. Champion callers fall into the same problem, they know how to call and what calls to send out, BUT they run a series of 3-4 yelps and it just didn't sound right to them, so they run another 3-4 yelps, that sounded better, but I can run a better yelp than that, so they run another series of yelps, there that sounded like it should! The problem now is their 3-4 yelp series just became a 9-12 yelp series to a bird that already knows where you are, he doesn't need a lost call series of yelps, OVER CALLING! I can't count the number of times I've seen that done. Your calling changes from one day to the next, what worked yesterday may not work today. It's important to learn what your birds are doing and what part of their breeding cycle they are in, you have to change your calling accordingly, meaning taking the temp of the bird. Learning to do that takes a few years and or studding charts and birds in your areas.
That being said, my definition of "over calling" is using the same call (yelp-cluck-cuts) over an over without changing the tone, speed, cadence, in which your running it, not the amount of calling your doing.
Quote from: WillowRidgeCalls on December 29, 2015, 12:03:19 AM
Splinter, your far a head of most of the today turkey hunters. Birds communicate a lot more than what hunters believe they do, BUT they've tried their way of calling with no response. The term "over calling" is so miss used and misunderstood by todays hunters. Birds are very vocal, the more birds in a group the they talk, your lone birds are your quiet ones, they do a lot less talking. They don't want to make themselves apparent or stand out, because of predators, so they keep their talking to a low tone (old hen) or very short bursts of mid tone (young hen) calls. A low tone call is a call that most hunters couldn't hear at 25-30yds, so hunters think they aren't talking today or you shouldn't be calling, UNTRUE, learn how to run your calls in a low tone and talk a bird right up until you pull the trigger on them. Hunters will tell you, you shouldn't call to a bird that's committed and coming towards you, or stop calling to a bird that's within 75yds of you or you'll spook him. If that bird can see through the area your hunting, if you keep calling to him in the same talk, tone, and cadence as you were when you stuck him up, yeah he'll lock up or run off, if it's thick woods or cover where he can't see very far you can get away with being a bit to loud or to fast in your cadences, but never run the same volume or cadence over an over or the same call talk. You'll hear young/new hunters and quite a few champion calls, OVER CALL. It's the nature of a human being, lol. Young hunters haven't learned yet and they are so determined to kill a bird they just keep calling over and over, the same tone, same cadence, same bird talk, yelp.....yelp....yelp....yelp ect. ect. Champion callers fall into the same problem, they know how to call and what calls to send out, BUT they run a series of 3-4 yelps and it just didn't sound right to them, so they run another 3-4 yelps, that sounded better, but I can run a better yelp than that, so they run another series of yelps, there that sounded like it should! The problem now is their 3-4 yelp series just became a 9-12 yelp series to a bird that already knows where you are, he doesn't need a lost call series of yelps, OVER CALLING! I can't count the number of times I've seen that done. Your calling changes from one day to the next, what worked yesterday may not work today. It's important to learn what your birds are doing and what part of their breeding cycle they are in, you have to change your calling accordingly, meaning taking the temp of the bird. Learning to do that takes a few years and or studding charts and birds in your areas.
That being said, my definition of "over calling" is using the same call (yelp-cluck-cuts) over an over without changing the tone, speed, cadence, in which your running it, not the amount of calling your doing.
:agreed: :icon_thumright:
Quote from: paboxcall on December 29, 2015, 12:54:19 AM
Quote from: WillowRidgeCalls on December 29, 2015, 12:03:19 AM
Splinter, your far a head of most of the today turkey hunters. Birds communicate a lot more than what hunters believe they do, BUT they've tried their way of calling with no response. The term "over calling" is so miss used and misunderstood by todays hunters. Birds are very vocal, the more birds in a group the they talk, your lone birds are your quiet ones, they do a lot less talking. They don't want to make themselves apparent or stand out, because of predators, so they keep their talking to a low tone (old hen) or very short bursts of mid tone (young hen) calls. A low tone call is a call that most hunters couldn't hear at 25-30yds, so hunters think they aren't talking today or you shouldn't be calling, UNTRUE, learn how to run your calls in a low tone and talk a bird right up until you pull the trigger on them. Hunters will tell you, you shouldn't call to a bird that's committed and coming towards you, or stop calling to a bird that's within 75yds of you or you'll spook him. If that bird can see through the area your hunting, if you keep calling to him in the same talk, tone, and cadence as you were when you stuck him up, yeah he'll lock up or run off, if it's thick woods or cover where he can't see very far you can get away with being a bit to loud or to fast in your cadences, but never run the same volume or cadence over an over or the same call talk. You'll hear young/new hunters and quite a few champion calls, OVER CALL. It's the nature of a human being, lol. Young hunters haven't learned yet and they are so determined to kill a bird they just keep calling over and over, the same tone, same cadence, same bird talk, yelp.....yelp....yelp....yelp ect. ect. Champion callers fall into the same problem, they know how to call and what calls to send out, BUT they run a series of 3-4 yelps and it just didn't sound right to them, so they run another 3-4 yelps, that sounded better, but I can run a better yelp than that, so they run another series of yelps, there that sounded like it should! The problem now is their 3-4 yelp series just became a 9-12 yelp series to a bird that already knows where you are, he doesn't need a lost call series of yelps, OVER CALLING! I can't count the number of times I've seen that done. Your calling changes from one day to the next, what worked yesterday may not work today. It's important to learn what your birds are doing and what part of their breeding cycle they are in, you have to change your calling accordingly, meaning taking the temp of the bird. Learning to do that takes a few years and or studding charts and birds in your areas.
That being said, my definition of "over calling" is using the same call (yelp-cluck-cuts) over an over without changing the tone, speed, cadence, in which your running it, not the amount of calling your doing.
:agreed: :icon_thumright:
X3. The only thing I'd add is that a lot of hunters have a gobbler going and then get anxious when he doesn't gobble for a few minutes so they hit him with some more yelps to see where he's at...he doesn't respond so they hit him again. In many cases he was coming in when he stopped gobbling and 10 or 15 minutes of patience on the hunters part would have ended up with a dead turkey. Instead the hunter gets nervous and overcalls, the gobbler stops coming in and then skedaddles when it's apparent that something isn't right.
WRC
Thank you for the great information. What you described makes a lot of sense. I only have 5 years of turkey hunting experience and I only hunt alone which makes it challenging to understand what I am doing right or wrong. I guess I can only leave that answered up to the birds and how they react to me throughout a season.
Thanks again for sharing. I will keep much of this in mind.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
When a birds does not come I have either over called or under called
Sent from the Strut Zone
Quote from: Yoder409 on December 28, 2015, 05:58:16 PM
I guess my definition of over-calling would be calling to the point that it turns off a turkey that had previously been interested and responding.
That being said............ I pride myself in over-calling.
I am fully aware of how I need to call if I positively HAVE GOT to kill a bird. But at this point in my turkey hunting career, I don't have to kill one that bad anymore. I would rather call too much and call too loud to fire a bird up. It doesn't turn my crank too much to kill one that comes in silent. I want him strutting and gobbling his ying yang off the whole way in.
Sir, we should hunt together some day! I love to call and hear the gobble. I do take their "temperature" but I really like the ones that like to hear me call. ;D
Quote from: Tail Feathers on January 04, 2016, 08:57:17 PM
Quote from: Yoder409 on December 28, 2015, 05:58:16 PM
I guess my definition of over-calling would be calling to the point that it turns off a turkey that had previously been interested and responding.
That being said............ I pride myself in over-calling.
I am fully aware of how I need to call if I positively HAVE GOT to kill a bird. But at this point in my turkey hunting career, I don't have to kill one that bad anymore. I would rather call too much and call too loud to fire a bird up. It doesn't turn my crank too much to kill one that comes in silent. I want him strutting and gobbling his ying yang off the whole way in.
Sir, we should hunt together some day! I love to call and hear the gobble. I do take their "temperature" but I really like the ones that like to hear me call. ;D
Well, if our paths would ever come close to crossing, it would be my pleasure to go make way too much turkey noise with ya !!! :icon_thumright:
My perspective on this is as a landowner for 15 years of 200 acres of prime turkey land. Every year, I go sit in the middle of the property and mostly listen. What I hear can be astounding.
What is overcalling? Like the SCOTUS justice said on recognizing pornography, " I know it when I hear it."
Every year, you hear a strange breed of turkey come out. It usually only comes out on the weekends, and it is only seems to be calling loud, louder than every other turkey out there. That is the first thing you notice, the volume. Normal turkeys can get loud, but this breed can tree call loud enough to be heard 2 ridges over. It does not seem to care what answers, and it is always the same excited run of yelps and cackles for hours on end. It usually goes on like that until about 9 AM and then it goes silent and you won't hear it again.
The overcallers sound like they are lost, horny, insecure, bitter, crazy and kicked in the throat when they were young. In fact, if I walked into a bar and heard a woman going on like that in human form, I'd either take my drink to the other end of the bar, or perhaps think about going down the street to another bar.
I suspect the gobblers think about the same way, because I seldom hear shots coming from that direction. When I do, it's usually a quick 5 shot string of some frustrated turkey hunter, plug out, emptying his magazine at a stump before he goes in.
Quote from: Happy on December 28, 2015, 08:47:04 PM
One big mistake I see happening is on Tom's that have hens. Most people still try and work the Tom which is the wrong aproach. He ain't going anywhere those hens ain't going. If you can get the lead hen to answer you then start mimicking her and cutting her off. Get her mad and headed to you then odds are good that big boy will be bringing up the rear. Conservative usually wins but sometimes you gotta give them the kitchen sink.
I have to agree with happy on this one, if the tom has hens his hard to work. But if you can mimic those hens and get them fired up and call them in you have a very good chance on killing that gobbler. Main thing is just be patient because his not far behind.
I've been hunting em for 15 years and I am by most people's standards guilty of calling too much but I also think it has to do with the turkey you are on. How responsive he is and what type of call he wants to hear. Some of them just want you to crank it all the way in and some want you to be shy. The ones that love it loud are in my opinion the most fun. I hate silent birds.
I agree that a hard gobbling bird is a whole lot of fun to deal with and there are times I throw caution to the wind and call till their ears bleed. The downside of this is that the more you make a Tom gobble the more attention you bring. On hard hunted land that will hurt you a lot. I have lost track of the birds that I had fired up and coming and next thing I know some nimrod comes running in on me and spooks the bird off(usually on an atv or side by side). Also I have learned that the more you call to an older Tom the more inclined they are to stand and gobble cause they fully expect that a hen that hot to trot will come to them. This is especially true on the roost. So yeah its fun to call and have one gobbling his fool head off but if I am serious about killing him I am gonna take it a little slower. Weekdays and remote hard to reach areas are my best friend when I want to call more aggressive.
I have always tended to run by where I am hunting, I would say for the ground I hunt and whether in the field or hunting timber makes a difference. Then it comes down to the bird, some birds require more calling to keep them interested. If you "learn" a bird over a number of unsuccessful hunts and alter your calling to match his attitude. "Taking a birds temperature" will entail many factors from age, attitude and even the day or where you are in the season. As you gain experience you will learn how to read a bird, seasoned hunters gain this kind of knowledge and it is a hard skill to pass on. I would tend to say I "overcall" birds with success!
MK M GOBL
Varies bird to bird. I have seen some birds come on a sting when guys are just screaming at them with the call so there was no over calling to those birds and others where the bird had been shot at earlier in the year where if I called to him he would stand still waiting for me to close the distance, I killed him by shutting up.
As a newer member to the sport without allot of experience/exposure..
More is less & soft is super.... ;)
Treat a gobbler like a lady working the stage at a gentleman's club...
Get a feel for the crowd/ gobbler.
Start slowly to work them, so their hand is continually in their pocket pulling out ones...
In turkey hunting, that means, just giving the gobbler enough to keep him coming...
At some point during all this...She should be in her birthday suit, you should be out of money
and our turkey hunter should be looking down his gun barrel, squeezing the trigger, at a beautiful long beard, who committed from playing the game right ... :happy0064:
Great analogy and description Zumer. I am guilty of trying to call too soft when hunting. But I don't want to crank on a call and sound like a sonic boom going off. If I can get a hen to answer me I mimic everything she does. Lots of times she will run right in looking to whip her competition and drag the big boy right with her. Sometimes she turns and goes away not wanting any competition and the gobbler lives to see another day. That's why I love turkey hunting. No two hunts ever exactly alike. Call soft and have a lot of patience is my hunting style.
Over calling??
I don't think turkeys become "call shy" they become "people shy". I have heard hens call nonstop for minutes on end, sometimes multiple hens calling off the roost for 20 minutes or longer. The gobbler in most cases doesn't shut up and run for the hills because the latest issue of Turkeys R Us says that you shouldn't call to much.
What I am calling people shy is just that. You start bumping birds on the Bad Boy buggy, or when you pop out into a food plot after calling for two minutes behind the shooting house. Or when you let 5 3.5" Nitros lose down through the pine plantation and only knocked feathers out of him. These are things that educate turkeys.
My best friend and I used to start in mid Feb every year going and calling up turkeys off the roost and filming the hunt and up close interaction. Everyone would say all your going to do is educate those turkeys. But we never knowingly spooked those gobblers when we called them up. We filmed them as long as they would stand there, and let them walk off. Most times we killed them the first few days of season every year with no problem. But they did not associated the calling they heard with humans.
You have to use common sense when calling to turkeys, but I will blast one from the limb to the gun barrel with everything under the sun if I can get away with it.
You can call to turkeys a whole lot more than you think you can, if they don't see you every time you leave the woods!!!
What a great thread.
this has been good reading,i also think you can get away with a lot more if the place is private and they dont see you coming and going.ive hunted places were i have gotten permission were it is gated and no one is ever around coming and going,those birds you could hammer and they would come running all the way to the gun,stay undetected after i tag out and take the owners kids and call them up for them the same way,all within a couple of days,also i have hunted public places were it seemed that if they heard a call the day was over,but on those places you could set your clock to the new turkeys as that one post said,and they drive trucks down gravel roads stopping every hundred or so yards and blasting some ear piercing yelps,and continue driving.on those birds to get them i would call very light with more light clucks and purrs and would sometimes be fortunate enough to get them.i tend to agree with sadler that he didnt make those birds so called call shy,if you stay undetected and can actually sound like a hen,which we all know he for sure can.here in kentucky we have a law that states"it is illegal to call to a turkey before opening day in the spring,by mimicking the sound of one in any way.in a way this is good though because you have a lot of weekend warriors that only call on a call a few times a year driving around and blasting yelps at turkeys, and running about bumping birds before anyone even gets to go hunting.also i think you need to worry more about doing the same thing over and over than actually calling to much,just listen in the spring,you can hear a yelp that sounds like the real thing,then a few minutes it will be the exact same yelp,same cadence,same everything,then again and again,you know then its someone with a call,and i think turkeys do to.so be sure not to get caught up in doing the same thing over and over,change the cadence,light or loud,and you will be more sucessfull,even if you do call a lot.