It seems that everyone on this forum is looking to shoot a pattern with all of their sot in a 10 inch circle at 50 yds. This season I shot a Benelli M2 with an Indian Creek choke that put 225 shot in a 10 inch circle at 40 measured yds. The problem is that as season wears on the foliage gets quite a bit thicker and your shots are a lot closer. I am looking to start over with this gun and see if I can come up with a combo that will shoot a nice even pattern in a 26 to 30 inch circle at 40 yds. This should than be a good killer at 25 to 30 later in the season and still be very efficient at 40 yds. Anyone else out there who agrees with me, and what are you shooting. Thanks, Dave
Quote from: Shoebuck on June 03, 2015, 07:10:01 PM
It seems that everyone on this forum is looking to shoot a pattern with all of their sot in a 10 inch circle at 50 yds. This season I shot a Benelli M2 with an Indian Creek choke that put 225 shot in a 10 inch circle at 40 measured yds. The problem is that as season wears on the foliage gets quite a bit thicker and your shots are a lot closer. I am looking to start over with this gun and see if I can come up with a combo that will shoot a nice even pattern in a 26 to 30 inch circle at 40 yds. This should than be a good killer at 25 to 30 later in the season and still be very efficient at 40 yds. Anyone else out there who agrees with me, and what are you shooting. Thanks, Dave
I think 26 is too much shot spread out.
I like a combo that shoots an even 125-140 in the 10
I like a real even 15"-20" pattern, personally...
Yeah, I like to be able to miss a little. I "missed" a pile with a Mossberg Ulti-Full and lead sixes. Now that that I've made friends with a little 20ga O/U there isn't much shot to miss with.
There is an on going thread about #7.5 target loads doing great out to 25-30 yard range. Maybe consider switching shells halfway through the season.
Quote from: Onpoint on June 03, 2015, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: Shoebuck on June 03, 2015, 07:10:01 PM
It seems that everyone on this forum is looking to shoot a pattern with all of their sot in a 10 inch circle at 50 yds. This season I shot a Benelli M2 with an Indian Creek choke that put 225 shot in a 10 inch circle at 40 measured yds. The problem is that as season wears on the foliage gets quite a bit thicker and your shots are a lot closer. I am looking to start over with this gun and see if I can come up with a combo that will shoot a nice even pattern in a 26 to 30 inch circle at 40 yds. This should than be a good killer at 25 to 30 later in the season and still be very efficient at 40 yds. Anyone else out there who agrees with me, and what are you shooting. Thanks, Dave
I think 26 is too much shot spread out.
I like a combo that shoots an even 125-140 in the 10
x2 And that usually gets good out to the 20" or so, much more than that and get pretty sparse. Of course i don't shoot heavy 3 1/2 shells or heavy shot charges with small shot so only dealing with 350 pieces or less.
By the way what load are you shooting?
I am shooting Winchester Long Beards 6 shot. I shot the Benelli Turkey choke with this load and got around 200 in 10 but the overall pattern was only about 14 inches. Than I shot the Benelli Full choke and the pattern was no bigger, just less shot in the 10 inch. I have a Burris Fast Fire III on the Benelli so I should not miss but, a quick duck of the head and I might be embarrassed.
Winch Gray Box 6s or Fed Turkey Thugs (Walmart only) should give you exactly what you are looking for at just over half the price.
I use my Stardot .676 majority of the time in my 835, and keep a Jellyhead .690 for a more open pattern.
I dont see the need for 20" of error. 10 seems like alot of room to play.
I mean I actually aim when I shoot. I dont shoot at running birds so considering all of the other hunting I do is a single projectile why the need for so much error. I can probably go to a slug and still get most of my birds. I mean we can all shoot beer cans all day with a 22 and when it comes to turkeys we become a lousy shot.
I have the same gun and and use a Indian Creek also. With Hevi #7's, it shoots lights out at 40 yards. Great coverage and pattern density outside the 10". I couldn't agree more with taylorjones20. I sometimes think we get caught up in chasing numbers in the 10" and not looking at wiggle room (15"-20") at 40. I primarily hunt in the timber and most of my shots are 30 yards and closer. I missed a bird at 15 yards on the first week of the season. At that range, with my setup, my pattern is like a softball. I believe that I didn't have my head all the way down when I shot. Definitely not the guns fault. Keep on trying different loads with the Indian Creek. You will find the right combo.
Quote from: Shoebuck on June 03, 2015, 07:10:01 PM
It seems that everyone on this forum is looking to shoot a pattern with all of their sot in a 10 inch circle at 50 yds. This season I shot a Benelli M2 with an Indian Creek choke that put 225 shot in a 10 inch circle at 40 measured yds. The problem is that as season wears on the foliage gets quite a bit thicker and your shots are a lot closer. I am looking to start over with this gun and see if I can come up with a combo that will shoot a nice even pattern in a 26 to 30 inch circle at 40 yds. This should than be a good killer at 25 to 30 later in the season and still be very efficient at 40 yds. Anyone else out there who agrees with me, and what are you shooting. Thanks, Dave
Sure the pattern gets smaller as you get closer, but that just means the target is closer and easier to hit. Don't rely on pattern spread to hit your target, aim and shoot better. Get some sights - a set of fiber optic open sights will do - and concentrate on hitting what you aim at.
Quote from: mikejd on June 04, 2015, 09:26:30 AM
I dont see the need for 20" of error. 10 seems like alot of room to play.
I mean I actually aim when I shoot. I dont shoot at running birds so considering all of the other hunting I do is a single projectile why the need for so much error. I can probably go to a slug and still get most of my birds. I mean we can all shoot beer cans all day with a 22 and when it comes to turkeys we become a lousy shot.
I agree with Mike and Natman. Aim small, miss small. A load traveling at 1000 fps will travel 3 football fields (333.3 yds) in the first second so a head bob from a gobbler shouldn't be an excuse for a miss as the load will arrive to your target in milliseconds as long as we AIM not just shoot in the general area.
I agree with aim small miss small, the problem is a turkey head can move , and while your bearing down, concentrating and pulling the slack out of the trigger is when you can get into trouble.
Throw in the reported problem of Win LB pattern POA/POI movement, you will have to shoot a bunch to see if yours does it.
Aiming is not the issue, I have a Burris Fast Fire iii on the gun. I guess the turkeys where some of the repliers hunt stand real still while they get shot. The turkeys here in Pa. tend to try everything possible to keep their beards in tack. If a bird moves while you are pulling the trigger and you have a 10" pattern you might edge him and cripple him. If you have a 20" pattern you will still get a fatal hit. If you take the pellets that I am getting in a 10" circle and spread them evening over a 20" pattern you still have a very lethal pattern. Just My Opinion.
Dave :welcomeOG:
I try and keep it simple as possible. My pattern I look at the 10",and look to see if it's nice and even. Good job keeping it at 40! This is a great guid from OG to go by. The LB's hold real tight. Personally not my type of shell. JMO
:anim_25:
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,17657.0.html
Quote from: owlhoot on June 03, 2015, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: Onpoint on June 03, 2015, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: Shoebuck on June 03, 2015, 07:10:01 PM
It seems that everyone on this forum is looking to shoot a pattern with all of their sot in a 10 inch circle at 50 yds. This season I shot a Benelli M2 with an Indian Creek choke that put 225 shot in a 10 inch circle at 40 measured yds. The problem is that as season wears on the foliage gets quite a bit thicker and your shots are a lot closer. I am looking to start over with this gun and see if I can come up with a combo that will shoot a nice even pattern in a 26 to 30 inch circle at 40 yds. This should than be a good killer at 25 to 30 later in the season and still be very efficient at 40 yds. Anyone else out there who agrees with me, and what are you shooting. Thanks, Dave
I think 26 is too much shot spread out.
I like a combo that shoots an even 125-140 in the 10
x2 And that usually gets good out to the 20" or so, much more than that and get pretty sparse. Of course i don't shoot heavy 3 1/2 shells or heavy shot charges with small shot so only dealing with 350 pieces or less.
By the way what load are you shooting?
in my beretta i shoot federal 3rd degree and in my mossberg I shoot winchester HV 4's.
Quote from: mikejd on June 04, 2015, 09:26:30 AM
I dont see the need for 20" of error. 10 seems like alot of room to play.
I mean I actually aim when I shoot. I dont shoot at running birds so considering all of the other hunting I do is a single projectile why the need for so much error. I can probably go to a slug and still get most of my birds. I mean we can all shoot beer cans all day with a 22 and when it comes to turkeys we become a lousy shot.
This.
Well said. Me personally, I dont shoot a bird unless his head is up or mostly up and not moving. AND within 40 yards. If its at 41 yards, he walks.
1. Beer cans don't move, turkey's head does, a lot! 2. Turkey won't wait for me to turn on my ff3 if he's very close. 3. There does not seem to be the perfect turkey shotgun! Where did good hunting skills go? Cluck :turkey2:
Quote from: mikejd on June 04, 2015, 09:26:30 AM
I dont see the need for 20" of error. 10 seems like alot of room to play.
I mean I actually aim when I shoot. I dont shoot at running birds so considering all of the other hunting I do is a single projectile why the need for so much error. I can probably go to a slug and still get most of my birds. I mean we can all shoot beer cans all day with a 22 and when it comes to turkeys we become a lousy shot.
100 pellets evenly spaced In the 10 ar 40 will kill any turkey known to man.
Turkeys have relatively small vitals, often times poor, uncomfortsble set ups, tired arms from holding the gun up forever, and the bastards often times don't take the path they're "supposed".
For me and my style of hunting a more even 15" pattern and less center dense pattern is better. But I will also take shots some folks wouldn't. I shoot just as many walkin As I do that have their neck stretched out. Never had A problem shooting A walking turkey. If I have a good clean shot I'll pop one as he's running off and ill blast em out of the sky too.
I don't take 50 yard shots though and most of my shots are within 30 yards.
If I hunted fields all the time where a further shot was the norm I'd shoot a tighter patterning setup. I actually have have a gun setup for this purpose. It's a 535 that'll put 200 5's in the 10. 3.5" winchester HV 4's have the same POI in this gun and it's what I loaded up with every time I packed thst gun this season. If my wife packs that gun she prefers the tighter pattern.
the first year i set up a super tight patterning gun was about about 15 years ago when I was still in high school. Nitro and rhino where the hottest thing smokin then. Missed 3 public land birds in one day. Went back to my Remington 675 hevi shot choke and Remington hevi shot 6's and filled all 5 of my tags with no more misses that year.
I you really want to have some fun and get good. Go shoot some clays with your turkey choke in your gun.
If you make a direct hit the clay will disappear right before your eyes.
Quote from: Shoebuck on June 06, 2015, 11:02:22 AM
Aiming is not the issue, I have a Burris Fast Fire iii on the gun. I guess the turkeys where some of the repliers hunt stand real still while they get shot. The turkeys here in Pa. tend to try everything possible to keep their beards in tack. If a bird moves while you are pulling the trigger and you have a 10" pattern you might edge him and cripple him. If you have a 20" pattern you will still get a fatal hit. If you take the pellets that I am getting in a 10" circle and spread them evening over a 20" pattern you still have a very lethal pattern. Just My Opinion.
The birds don't hold still while I shoot - I shoot while they're holding still.
Usually because I've given a tiny yelp to get them to stop and gobble. I fire when their head is outstretched.
I shoot for the middle of the neck. The bird would have to move his head almost a foot to get out of the pattern. Hasn't happened yet.
If you use a more open choke to get an open pattern, then at 40 yards it will be less dense and full of holes. A bad trade IMO.
[quote author=natman link=topic=56658.msg561230#msg561230 date=143369298
I shoot for the middle of the neck. The bird would have to move his head almost a foot to get out of the pattern. Hasn't happened yet.
[/quote]
It will ;)
Quote from: BandedSpur on June 07, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
[quote author=natman link=topic=56658.msg561230#msg561230 date=143369298
I shoot for the middle of the neck. The bird would have to move his head almost a foot to get out of the pattern. Hasn't happened yet.
It will ;)
[/quote]
Perhaps, but my assessment is that the odds of that happening are a lot less than of wounding a turkey at 40 yards because I used a choke that gave a 20" sweet spot.
Quote from: natman on June 07, 2015, 03:53:56 PM
Quote from: BandedSpur on June 07, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
[quote author=natman link=topic=56658.msg561230#msg561230 date=143369298
I shoot for the middle of the neck. The bird would have to move his head almost a foot to get out of the pattern. Hasn't happened yet.
It will ;)
Perhaps, but my assessment is that the odds of that happening are a lot less than of wounding a turkey at 40 yards because I used a choke that gave a 20" sweet spot.
[/quote]
I totally agree. There is no way a turkeys head is moving out of the way of a good 10" pattern. Back before all of these great chokes and ammo they used to say as long as you have 6 hits in the vitals shooting at a turkey head target you were good for turkeys. Thats about 50 hits in a 10" circle. We didnt miss back then either.
No such thing as too tight of pattern to me... Of course, I don't try to shoot a bead or rifle sights either..
Need good quality optics when shooting tight patterns.. Then use a little discretion and discipline when actually shooting at birds.... They deserve it!!!!!
The area of a circle increases with the square of the radius. Therefore a 20" circle with twice the radius of a 10" circle will have 4 times the area. You only have so many pellets, so if you want to spread them out evenly over 4 times as much area you would have to make do with only 1/4 as many pellets in any given spot. Changing from 100 pellets to 25 pellets in a 10" sweet spot seems like a bad trade.
Worrying about the turkey moving is easily dealt with - pick your shot when the turkey isn't moving. The other possible causes for missing are poor sights or poor marksmanship. Either issue should be dealt with directly. Trying to bandaid over them with a wider pattern is a bad choice.
I wish I'd read this thread before I killed all those turkeys with a .695 and no sights. Now I don't know what I'll do for goose season. I guess I need a punt gun and some kind of heads up display off a fighter jet? 'Cause, you know, those geese are flying.
I don't mind 10" patterns. The only problem is when I have a 10" pattern at 40yds and a baseball size pattern at 20yds. I shoot most turkey's inside 30yds no matter what gun I hunt with. A good 10" at 20yds and a good 15"-20" pattern at 40 seems to be the best set up for me hunting in the timber. High numbers in a 10" can still be turned with these patterns. I'm hunting with a Beretta Xtrema turning 330's in a 10" at 40yds. Hevi 13 3.5/2.25/7's. 10" pattern at 20-25 and 15"-20" at 40. Shooting any tighter patterns just increases my chances of missing..and we all miss from time to time.
*never have considered a pattern too tight until Winchester Longbeards came along.
You are spot on Longhanks. That is what I am looking for. I am going to have to try something other than then Long Beards, Nothing against them, they are an really good load - Just a little tight. I do not like spending the extra for the hevi shot but I guess I will need to give them a go. Thanks all, Dave
I used Fed. #5 2 oz., 3" on my first Pa. bird this year, at over the allowed to say range & my second Pa. bird was shot using Longbeard xr #6 1 3/4 oz. 3" at 25 yds. Both dead as dead can be. Both sight points were the waddles!
Quote from: Longshanks on June 11, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
I don't mind 10" patterns. The only problem is when I have a 10" pattern at 40yds and a baseball size pattern at 20yds.
A baseball is 3" in diameter. If you can't hit a spot with a 3" pattern at 20 yards it means you can't hit a 3" target with a bullet at 20 yards. 3" at 20 yards is equal to 15" at 100 yards or 15 minutes of angle.
If you can't shoot a lot tighter than 15 minutes of angle your problem is not with too tight a pattern. I'd suggest that you make sure your shotgun shoots where it's aimed. Then take a 22 and see if you can hit the end of a soda can at 20 yards. One of those tests ought to uncover the real problem.
Quote from: natman on June 18, 2015, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on June 11, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
I don't mind 10" patterns. The only problem is when I have a 10" pattern at 40yds and a baseball size pattern at 20yds.
A baseball is 3" in diameter. If you can't hit a spot with a 3" pattern at 20 yards it means you can't hit a 3" target with a bullet at 20 yards. 3" at 20 yards is equal to 15" at 100 yards or 15 minutes of angle.
If you can't shoot a lot tighter than 15 minutes of angle your problem is not with too tight a pattern. I'd suggest that you make sure your shotgun shoots where it's aimed. Then take a 22 and see if you can hit the end of a soda can at 20 yards. One of those tests ought to uncover the real problem.
I can tell you that after 40 years of turkey hunting that if you think your chances of missing aren't increased by hunting with a pattern that is 3" at 20 yds you would be confused. Sighting a gun in is easy. A factor you aren't considering is that with Win LB's that 3" pattern doesn't always hit in the same place. For that reason I would rather not hunt with a 3" pattern that wanders. Your math has you mislead about the realities of turkey hunting. Allot of the turkey's I have killed over the years have been well inside 20yds and not always standing still. If you are thinking that even the best turkey hunters and shots don't miss you would be wrong. The majority of misses I have seen guiding and filming have been the close shots. Keep hunting with the overly tight patterns and a few misses will teach you more than adding, multiplying, and dividing..that patterns can actually be too tight in many scenarios in the turkey woods.
Quote from: Longshanks on June 18, 2015, 01:43:34 PM
Quote from: natman on June 18, 2015, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on June 11, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
I don't mind 10" patterns. The only problem is when I have a 10" pattern at 40yds and a baseball size pattern at 20yds.
A baseball is 3" in diameter. If you can't hit a spot with a 3" pattern at 20 yards it means you can't hit a 3" target with a bullet at 20 yards. 3" at 20 yards is equal to 15" at 100 yards or 15 minutes of angle.
If you can't shoot a lot tighter than 15 minutes of angle your problem is not with too tight a pattern. I'd suggest that you make sure your shotgun shoots where it's aimed. Then take a 22 and see if you can hit the end of a soda can at 20 yards. One of those tests ought to uncover the real problem.
I can tell you that after 40 years of turkey hunting that if you think your chances of missing aren't increased by hunting with a pattern that is 3" at 20 yds you would be confused. Sighting a gun in is easy. A factor you aren't considering is that with Win LB's that 3" pattern doesn't always hit in the same place. For that reason I would rather not hunt with a 3" pattern that wanders. Your math has you mislead about the realities of turkey hunting. Allot of the turkey's I have killed over the years have been well inside 20yds and not always standing still. If you are thinking that even the best turkey hunters and shots don't miss you would be wrong. The majority of misses I have seen guiding and filming have been the close shots. Keep hunting with the overly tight patterns and a few misses will teach you more than adding, multiplying, and dividing..that patterns can actually be too tight in many scenarios in the turkey woods.
If Win LBs indeed cause a wandering POI, then I'd shoot something else. That falls under the suggestion that he check that the gun shoots where it aims.
Sorry if you don't like the math, but the truth is the truth. Calling a turkey is hard, hitting it with a shotgun should be easy, at least compared to hitting it with a rifle. The OP should address the actual issue, whatever it is, instead of compromising 40 yard performance by trying to mask whatever is causing him to miss with a wider short distance pattern.
Turkey hunting rarely presents perfect situation shots. Try sitting still at the base of a tree for 2-3 hours and then have a turkey come in to your off handed side. Heart pounding, twist around, possibly have to shoot left handed, raise your gun when he goes behind a tree and then have to wait with your gun up for several minutes. Then when he comes around the tree running in to where he heard the call coming from..take the shot. That whole minute of angle goes out the window at that point and a pattern with a little forgiveness helps tremendously. (Situation I have encountered countless times)
I agree, I don't think I would be looking to shoot a 26"-30" pattern. I'm turning patterns anywhere from 160's-330's in a 10 @ 40 with loads other than LB's that give a 10"-12" pattern at closer ranges. Some guys set their guns up to shoot 20-30yds. To each his own. Not something I would be interested in doing. Don't need turkey chokes or turkey loads to turn a good 30" pattern.
Quote from: Longshanks on June 18, 2015, 05:13:45 PM
Turkey hunting rarely presents perfect situation shots. Try sitting still at the base of a tree for 2-3 hours and then have a turkey come in to your off handed side. Heart pounding, twist around, possibly have to shoot left handed, raise your gun when he goes behind a tree and then have to wait with your gun up for several minutes. Then when he comes around the tree running in to where he heard the call coming from..take the shot. That whole minute of angle goes out the window at that point and a pattern with a little forgiveness helps tremendously. (Situation I have encountered countless times)
Believe it or not, I have been on a turkey hunt more than once and am very familiar with the crazy ways shots can present themselves. That's why it's a good thing they're hunted with a shotgun. A shotgun is already pretty forgiving. Hitting a point with a 3" pattern at 20 yards requires the same degree of accuracy as keeping your shots on a dinner plate at 50 yards or a 15" car wheel at 100 yards with a rifle. That's a pretty casual standard. If I were checking someone out to go deer hunting and they couldn't shoot better than that, they wouldn't go.
Quote from: Longshanks on June 18, 2015, 05:13:45 PM
I agree, I don't think I would be looking to shoot a 26"-30" pattern. I'm turning patterns anywhere from 160's-330's in a 10 @ 40 with loads other than LB's that give a 10"-12" pattern at closer ranges. Some guys set their guns up to shoot 20-30yds. To each his own. Not something I would be interested in doing. Don't need turkey chokes or turkey loads to turn a good 30" pattern.
It would be one thing to use a bit more open pattern at 30 yards *if* you were never going to shoot past that distance. But that's not what the OP wants:
Quote[Shoebuck]This season I shot a Benelli M2 with an Indian Creek choke that put 225 shot in a 10 inch circle at 40 measured yds. ....I am looking to start over with this gun and see if I can come up with a combo that will shoot a nice even pattern in a 26 to 30 inch circle at 40 yds. This should than be a good killer at 25 to 30 later in the season and still be very efficient at 40 yds.
That 225 pellets in a 10" circle will become 25 pellets if evenly spread out over 30 inches. Not what I'd call very efficient. You can't have it both ways. Fortunately, you don't need to.
You know the beauty of it is people can shoot whatever they want and that's their business. I know what works best for me and what provides the most consistent results. I hunt with allot of folks that hunt for a living and their thought process is the same about patterns. Since longbeards came out I've heard stories all over this country about folks missing turkey's standing right in front of them. I've seen folks..that know how to shoot..miss up close with LB's. Sure I've killed turkey's with LB's but there is no margin for error at close distances. Missed one at close distance that caught me in an awkward position. I killed one at 12 yds and another at 15 yds and they looked like I shot them with slugs. When most of the turkeys I kill are inside 30yds there's no need for that type of pattern. I pattern my guns to have a killing pattern at 40 yds and a 10"-12" pattern at closer ranges. It just works.
*it seems the original poster likes the idea of shooting a good pattern at 40yds with a 10" pattern at closer distances if you read his remarks in the thread. He found what he was looking for and that's what makes Old Gobbler the best site around.
Turkey heads and neck moving around,exited on the hunt. Funny how lots of patterns even at 40 posted have a poa spot on them and the 10" circle is high,low and left or right . Quite a few on the edge of the 10" circle . Advice to shoot at large piece of paper , why if your shots are on the money always . And this is at paper, more than likely off a solid rest and off a good position. No trembling joints, no excitement and paper don't move or change position as your squeezing the slack out of a trigger , which on most shot guns leave something to be desired for precise shooting . Yes I realize that some need to finish adjusting their sights or Red dots , but the pics posted show the variables. Heck of a lot easier hitting a 10" kill zone of a deer at 50 yards with a scoped rifle shot than to hit a 2" wide turkey head with a 3" pattern, one step or head bob and he is out of that easily.
That 10" is probably conservative too. :z-twocents:
Completely agree. Most of the patterns we see on here where the POA/POI is off..these guys are making sure they have the pattern they want before they go through the process of sighting in. Occasionally we see people that just aren't shooting a big enough piece of paper to see what the pattern is doing. Sighting a gun in is easy. Can be costly and rough on the shoulder..but not difficult. The idea that shooting the turkey is the easy part and that it's a gimmie once the turkey comes..yea right..40 years of turkey hunting, filming and guiding has shown me different. I've seen the best miss. Granted, calling, setup, concealment, when to move/when not to move, etc are the most important factors in turkey hunting, the shot is not always easy or a guaranteed kill..too many factors.
Yep, anybody that says they've never missed a turkey is either lying or they haven't killed that many. The tighter the pattern, the greater the likelihood of a miss.
Quote from: BandedSpur on June 28, 2015, 06:57:45 AM
Yep, anybody that says they've never missed a turkey are either lying or they haven't killed that many. The tighter the pattern, the greater the likelihood of a miss.
:morning: heck i have even missed turkey with a not so tight pattern, BUT IT WASN'T MY FAULT :newmascot:
I'm with you there Longshanks. I've been turkey hunting long enough to know that a 3" pattern at 20 yards is too tight for me.
A 3" pattern at 20 yards means any combination of your barrel
wiggling or the turkeys head moving 1 1/2" results in a miss at 20 yards.
Stuff happens in the field and we don't always get the shot we want.
The turkeys I shoot don't always stand and pose for me.
Sometimes I might need to shoot a walking or running turkey.
But, like you said to each his own.
We all have to decide what is right for the way we hunt.
Quote from: Jimspur on June 28, 2015, 10:22:14 AM
I'm with you there Longshanks. I've been turkey hunting long enough to know that a 3" pattern at 20 yards is too tight for me.
A 3" pattern at 20 yards means any combination of your barrel
wiggling or the turkeys head moving 1 1/2" results in a miss at 20 yards.
Stuff happens in the field and we don't always get the shot we want.
The turkeys I shoot don't always stand and pose for me.
Sometimes I might need to shoot a walking or running turkey.
But, like you said to each his own.
We all have to decide what is right for the way we hunt.
I killed 4 turkeys this year that I don't know if I would have killed with a super tight pattern
First was an offhand shot at less than 10 yards..
Second was the very next day, bird gobbled in behind me, I spun around the tree too far cuz when he popped up he was slightly forward of me, I tried to correct when he went behind a couple big oaks but he busted me ans turned and took off running, fortunately the way I needed him to go.
3rd was on a double, my wife was "supposed" to shoot the strutter. We were set up about 10 yards apart ans she couldn't see the strutter. I'm on my turkey and I couldn't see the strutter either. BOOM, all I see at the end of my bead is a puff of feathers and "my" turkey hit the deck. I quickly scanned the area ans didn't see the other bird. I jumped to my feet and saw him in a low spot running like hell. I swung and rollled him over like shooting a rabbit.
Last but not least I realized I made a mistake in my setup. There was a pine tree blowed down about 20 yards in front of me and I thought "I bet he comes right in behind that tree." Sure enough he did ans when he cleared it I had to shoot him on a fast walk between 2 trees about a foot wide. Bam. 4 tough shots I was glad to have a more forgiving pattern on..
Quote from: Onpoint on June 28, 2015, 03:18:00 PM
Quote from: Jimspur on June 28, 2015, 10:22:14 AM
I'm with you there Longshanks. I've been turkey hunting long enough to know that a 3" pattern at 20 yards is too tight for me.
A 3" pattern at 20 yards means any combination of your barrel
wiggling or the turkeys head moving 1 1/2" results in a miss at 20 yards.
Stuff happens in the field and we don't always get the shot we want.
The turkeys I shoot don't always stand and pose for me.
Sometimes I might need to shoot a walking or running turkey.
But, like you said to each his own.
We all have to decide what is right for the way we hunt.
I killed 4 turkeys this year that I don't know if I would have killed with a super tight pattern
First was an offhand shot at less than 10 yards..
Second was the very next day, bird gobbled in behind me, I spun around the tree too far cuz when he popped up he was slightly forward of me, I tried to correct when he went behind a couple big oaks but he busted me ans turned and took off running, fortunately the way I needed him to go.
3rd was on a double, my wife was "supposed" to shoot the strutter. We were set up about 10 yards apart ans she couldn't see the strutter. I'm on my turkey and I couldn't see the strutter either. BOOM, all I see at the end of my bead is a puff of feathers and "my" turkey hit the deck. I quickly scanned the area ans didn't see the other bird. I jumped to my feet and saw him in a low spot running like hell. I swung and rollled him over like shooting a rabbit.
Last but not least I realized I made a mistake in my setup. There was a pine tree blowed down about 20 yards in front of me and I thought "I bet he comes right in behind that tree." Sure enough he did ans when he cleared it I had to shoot him on a fast walk between 2 trees about a foot wide. Bam. 4 tough shots I was glad to have a more forgiving pattern on..
Great example of the realities of turkey hunting. Congratulations..way to get it done under difficult circumstances.
Quote from: Onpoint on June 28, 2015, 03:18:00 PM
Quote from: Jimspur on June 28, 2015, 10:22:14 AM
I'm with you there Longshanks. I've been turkey hunting long enough to know that a 3" pattern at 20 yards is too tight for me.
A 3" pattern at 20 yards means any combination of your barrel
wiggling or the turkeys head moving 1 1/2" results in a miss at 20 yards.
Stuff happens in the field and we don't always get the shot we want.
The turkeys I shoot don't always stand and pose for me.
Sometimes I might need to shoot a walking or running turkey.
But, like you said to each his own.
We all have to decide what is right for the way we hunt.
I killed 4 turkeys this year that I don't know if I would have killed with a super tight pattern
First was an offhand shot at less than 10 yards..
Second was the very next day, bird gobbled in behind me, I spun around the tree too far cuz when he popped up he was slightly forward of me, I tried to correct when he went behind a couple big oaks but he busted me ans turned and took off running, fortunately the way I needed him to go.
3rd was on a double, my wife was "supposed" to shoot the strutter. We were set up about 10 yards apart ans she couldn't see the strutter. I'm on my turkey and I couldn't see the strutter either. BOOM, all I see at the end of my bead is a puff of feathers and "my" turkey hit the deck. I quickly scanned the area ans didn't see the other bird. I jumped to my feet and saw him in a low spot running like hell. I swung and rollled him over like shooting a rabbit.
Last but not least I realized I made a mistake in my setup. There was a pine tree blowed down about 20 yards in front of me and I thought "I bet he comes right in behind that tree." Sure enough he did ans when he cleared it I had to shoot him on a fast walk between 2 trees about a foot wide. Bam. 4 tough shots I was glad to have a more forgiving pattern on..
I would venture to say that with today's loads and chokes,
more turkeys are missed because the pattern is too tight than too loose.
Onpoint's examples are typical of what can happen.
Good shootin' Onpoint.
Quote from: Jimspur on June 28, 2015, 11:02:25 PM
Quote from: Onpoint on June 28, 2015, 03:18:00 PM
Quote from: Jimspur on June 28, 2015, 10:22:14 AM
I'm with you there Longshanks. I've been turkey hunting long enough to know that a 3" pattern at 20 yards is too tight for me.
A 3" pattern at 20 yards means any combination of your barrel
wiggling or the turkeys head moving 1 1/2" results in a miss at 20 yards.
Stuff happens in the field and we don't always get the shot we want.
The turkeys I shoot don't always stand and pose for me.
Sometimes I might need to shoot a walking or running turkey.
But, like you said to each his own.
We all have to decide what is right for the way we hunt.
I killed 4 turkeys this year that I don't know if I would have killed with a super tight pattern
First was an offhand shot at less than 10 yards..
Second was the very next day, bird gobbled in behind me, I spun around the tree too far cuz when he popped up he was slightly forward of me, I tried to correct when he went behind a couple big oaks but he busted me ans turned and took off running, fortunately the way I needed him to go.
3rd was on a double, my wife was "supposed" to shoot the strutter. We were set up about 10 yards apart ans she couldn't see the strutter. I'm on my turkey and I couldn't see the strutter either. BOOM, all I see at the end of my bead is a puff of feathers and "my" turkey hit the deck. I quickly scanned the area ans didn't see the other bird. I jumped to my feet and saw him in a low spot running like hell. I swung and rollled him over like shooting a rabbit.
Last but not least I realized I made a mistake in my setup. There was a pine tree blowed down about 20 yards in front of me and I thought "I bet he comes right in behind that tree." Sure enough he did ans when he cleared it I had to shoot him on a fast walk between 2 trees about a foot wide. Bam. 4 tough shots I was glad to have a more forgiving pattern on..
I would venture to say that with today's loads and chokes,
more turkeys are missed because the pattern is too tight than too loose.
Onpoint's examples are typical of what can happen.
Good shootin' Onpoint.
Thank ya
This is right after the last shot I mentioned. The reason I pulled the phone out is cuz I thought he was.about to get pounced on by a flock of jakes that hadn't quite made it to me yet. He came from the right, off the hill and was moving extremely fast. 30 minutes after he flew down (which I was within 100 yards of him for) he led me.atleast 800 yards. I just simply couldn't move fast enough to get ahead of this bird. He finally stopped and I was able to call him back. Which was a good thing cuz I was.just about to reach the property line
http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/19onpoint85/media/20150429_063746_zps3rlfkeii.mp4.html
It's good to have a gun with some spread that can make those shots, 'cause sometimes that's all you get!