So I was wanting to try Win Longbeards and did so with 3 1/2" 2oz #5's, my 835 with Indian Creek choke and shot 2 targets at a measured 40 yds. getting 181 and 184 in the best 10" circle; this was at 56 degrees. This was good, but I had been reading about barrel polishing and decided to try it. I ordered the stuff from Brownell's, followed the directions in the sticky post above to a T....exact compounds, exact order, everything. As luck would have it, when I shot the gun this afternoon, my 10" counts were 149 and 176. Same box of shells, same measured distance, all that changed was polishing the barrel and the temp was colder at 39 degrees.
Now, I know colder temps affect patterns, but I have never seen that kind of change. By my reckoning my pattern took an 11% hit...not what I was expecting.
I cleaned and polished with a different choke tube in the barrel, like I said, exactly as was recommended. Anyone ever had this happen? Any suggestions on how to get my patterns back to at least where they were?
Some guns don't like clean/polished barrels. Neither of my 835 did and they never shot right afterwards. They had nice patterns, but chasing numbers, I cleaned/polished them. They just never came back to where they were. Haven't messed with them in a while now. Went to a 20. I try to stay away from the cleaning deal..other than a bore snake and denatured alcohol.
You can take a bad gun and make it better but you can make a good one a bad one real fast.
Just TAKE your time if you do. I NVER polish our barrels. We test in the real world.
Plus our full outlaw guns never get polish or oil in them.
That temp change is probably some of the cause of the decline.
Quote from: SumToy on March 18, 2015, 10:54:50 PM
You can take a bad gun and make it better but you can make a good one a bad one real fast.
Just TAKE your time if you do. I NVER polish our barrels. We test in the real world.
Plus our full outlaw guns never get polish or oil in them.
Wow.. I was just about to order up the stuff to polish mine. Thanks for posting this. I'll leave my 835 the way it is! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Quote from: alclark2 on March 19, 2015, 07:45:20 AM
Quote from: SumToy on March 18, 2015, 10:54:50 PM
You can take a bad gun and make it better but you can make a good one a bad one real fast.
Just TAKE your time if you do. I NVER polish our barrels. We test in the real world.
Plus our full outlaw guns never get polish or oil in them.
Wow.. I was just about to order up the stuff to polish mine. Thanks for posting this. I'll leave my 835 the way it is! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I think the big thing is to get a barrel clean.
Quote from: BoWhoop on March 18, 2015, 10:31:18 PM
So I was wanting to try Win Longbeards and did so with 3 1/2" 2oz #5's, my 835 with Indian Creek choke and shot 2 targets at a measured 40 yds. getting 181 and 184 in the best 10" circle; this was at 56 degrees. This was good, but I had been reading about barrel polishing and decided to try it. I ordered the stuff from Brownell's, followed the directions in the sticky post above to a T....exact compounds, exact order, everything. As luck would have it, when I shot the gun this afternoon, my 10" counts were 149 and 176. Same box of shells, same measured distance, all that changed was polishing the barrel and the temp was colder at 39 degrees.
Now, I know colder temps affect patterns, but I have never seen that kind of change. By my reckoning my pattern took an 11% hit...not what I was expecting.
I cleaned and polished with a different choke tube in the barrel, like I said, exactly as was recommended. Anyone ever had this happen? Any suggestions on how to get my patterns back to at least where they were?
I suspect that the reason you're seeing the change is just what you've said, the 17 degree drop in temperature. Cold, dense air can play havoc with patterns.
Recently, I shot a Remington 11-87 with a 28" barrel, using 3" WLB shells, from the same box, through the same choke tube at 52 degrees and at 68 degrees. The pattern at 52 degrees had 157 hits in the 10" circle and the one at 68 had 211 hits in the 10" circle. Nothing else changed.
I "deep clean" barrels using Hoppe's #9 to get a bore clean. Then I shoot it without cleaning between shots until the patterns either degrade or improve. That's the only real way to find out if your particular gun likes a "squeaky clean" bore, a slightly fouled bore or a dirty bore. Some like it one way, some like it another.
When temperatures get back to where they were, you may want to give that process a try.
Thanks,
Clark
I've polished two 835's and both produced better patterns afterwards. I think the temp was your problem.
I had a friend did the same thing with the brownells kit in 870 barrels.They have never patterned even close to what they did before polishing.
Also, if you haven't already done so, get some denatured alcohol and run a few soaked patches down the barrel. This will remove any residue left from the polishing and leave the barrel squeaky clean!
I am not knocking those who deep clean the barrels, but I don't see the real world need for it. When I went to pattern my shotgun for turkeys for the first time, I cleaned my shotgun like I would clean any other gun. I am shooting 200+ in a 10" circle at 40 yards. I would be crazy to mess around trying to improve that. I have not cleaned my barrel since before I patterned it. I will not clean my shotgun again until after the season, unless of course I sit out in the rain.
Again, not knocking those who choose to deep clean their barrels, but too much extra for me.
Thanks to everyone that posted, appreciate the responses.
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 19, 2015, 08:22:20 AM
I suspect that the reason you're seeing the change is just what you've said, the 17 degree drop in temperature. Cold, dense air can play havoc with patterns.
Recently, I shot a Remington 11-87 with a 28" barrel, using 3" WLB shells, from the same box, through the same choke tube at 52 degrees and at 68 degrees. The pattern at 52 degrees had 157 hits in the 10" circle and the one at 68 had 211 hits in the 10" circle. Nothing else changed.
I "deep clean" barrels using Hoppe's #9 to get a bore clean. Then I shoot it without cleaning between shots until the patterns either degrade or improve. That's the only real way to find out if your particular gun likes a "squeaky clean" bore, a slightly fouled bore or a dirty bore. Some like it one way, some like it another.
When temperatures get back to where they were, you may want to give that process a try.
Thanks,
Clark
Interesting stuff. Looking at the extended forecast, its gonna be a while before temps get back up to where they were the first day I shot. The only way to really know what is going on is to compare apples to apples, so for now the jury is out!
In the meantime I can dial in the POI I guess.
Clark, have you ever done a study or seen one comparing shotshell performance over a range of temperatures from say (ideally) 0 to 100 in 10 degree increments, or anything even close to this? I've been aware of temp changes affecting shell performance since I started loading steel shot back in the 80's, Tom Roster mentioned it quite often. I never tested that theory before, but this experience does make me curious.
Google is amazing. Lots of info out there.
I have only had a couple of barrels polished that really had sub par patterns and the tool marks were very easy to see in the barrel. That being said I let my gunsmith decide if the barrel needed to be polished and let him do it. The rest of my guns I just deep clean and use Tico tool in between. You can take material out of them fairly easy you just can't put it back.
Temperature makes a big difference and humidity, wind as well. If it were me I would shoot some more before deciding to polish.
I found that in low to mid 40 temps, my pattern wasn't much worse than it was in mid to high 50s.
Quote from: BoWhoop on March 19, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
Google is amazing. Lots of info out there.
QuoteClark, have you ever done a study or seen one comparing shotshell performance over a range of temperatures from say (ideally) 0 to 100 in 10 degree increments, or anything even close to this? I've been aware of temp changes affecting shell performance since I started loading steel shot back in the 80's, Tom Roster mentioned it quite often. I never tested that theory before, but this experience does make me curious.
Some of the better studies about the effects of temperature on patterns was done many years ago by the engineering staff at Olin/Winchester. You may be able to find it, as you've found other information, by "Googling" it.
In the last 6 months, I've evaluated a number of different turkey chokes. Some, as I mentioned, were in pretty warm temperatures and then some were in more realistic temperatures for turkey hunting. I saw dramatic differences in performance as measured by "hits" in a 10" circle at 40 yards.
When you drop down to temps below 40, you can usually expect to see even more dramatic changes than I saw. That's one reason not to depend upon the patterns that we see in very warm temperatures for those chilly mornings in the turkey woods.
Over the last 16 years I've been involved in the sport of still target shooting and have travelled over a good bit of the eastern side of the U.S., the south, midwest and as far west as Kansas. That sport begins now in February and runs through October, with an occasional event in November. I've been able to observe how all kinds of guns/chokes/shells react to different atmospheric conditions. We may begin with a cold morning, have a hot mid day and a cold afternoon for example. For the most part, patterns react as you might expect during those changing conditions.
It's been a good experience because I've not been limited to just my experiences as those conditions change but I've been able to observe many, many others over that time and note that changes are pretty much the same for everyone no matter what choke/gun/shell is used. When it's hot, patterns are better, is a good general rule.
Lastly, and maybe the most important factor is that still target shooters know their guns. We know that a particular gun may shoot at its best after the 4th shot without being cleaned, or a particular gun may need to be cleaned after every shot. If you look down the line of shooters, and observe closely how they deal with their guns, you'll find this to be very true.
Starting out "squeaky" clean and shooting without cleaning between shots until the pattern either improves of degrades is the only method that I know of to find out exactly how your particular gun shoots best.
Thanks,
Clark