Has his article about all the different gun/choke/shell combos been posted anywhere online? I usually get the magazine but haven't gotten that issue yet for some reason and would love to check out the article..
Its kinda worded weird..the graphs show the numbers but the wording says different. I'd like to see all the patterns and look by that. I've heard that the article may have been tweaked some by nwtf and that the chokes that are said to have performed best actually weren't the better performers... that's why I'd like to see the pattern pics. All looked good on paper according to the numbers. The long beard shells shoot good.
Quote from: cornfedkiller on March 18, 2015, 10:16:06 PM
Has his article about all the different gun/choke/shell combos been posted anywhere online? I usually get the magazine but haven't gotten that issue yet for some reason and would love to check out the article..
To the best of my knowledge, there's no link to the article at this time.
In reality, all 32 chokes, through the 6 different guns, put up good patterns. I also submitted 32 patterns but there was not space to print all of them. The chart accurately reflects the actual results. There were 2 results left off on the chart of 835 results, the Mossberg X-Factor with 147 hits and the SSX with 186 hits, neither had any 2" or more gaps, otherwise all the information was correct.
The editor elected to pull out the 3 highest scores of all the 32 patterns, the Hevi-Shot @ 220, the SSX @ 220 and the Pure Gold at 224. Those numbers were also accurate, however the SSX 220 was in Invector and not Invector+. That's the only error that I saw in the finished product.
It was a major project firing 96 shells, 3 for each choke tube, over a period of several weeks to make sure conditions were the same or very similar at each range visit. I shot 32 at each visit, and alternated the order each time, so that no one choke would have an advantage. I also wanted to make sure that I shot them as close to spring and fall temperatures as possible, in the low to mid 50s, consequently, the numbers were not excessively high.
The article and chart accurately reflect the results.
I have also done the same thing with Hevi-13 shells and whenever I can get the time, I will publish those results with a link to them so that everyone will be able to have access to the results.
This time of year is pretty crazy for me and I tend to publish the shorter, easier projects first.
Thanks,
Clark
So the article was tweeked some by NWTF??? :OGturkeyhead:
Quote from: SKFOOTER on March 19, 2015, 09:22:27 AM
So the article was tweeked some by NWTF??? :OGturkeyhead:
No. It was printed as it was written.
Thanks,
Clark
Clark,
Could you list the results for each gun / choke / shell combo here on OG?
That was going to be my next question BHMTitan!
Or your website Clark?
Quote from: BHMTitan on March 19, 2015, 10:20:20 AM
Clark,
Could you list the results for each gun / choke / shell combo here on OG?
I'll be happy to answer any specific question you may have about a particular gun or choke combination.
Thanks,
Clark
I am confused, if editors pulled the three highest numbers how was it published as written?
Quote from: Mike Honcho on March 19, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
I am confused, if editors pulled the three highest numbers how was it published as written?
The editor published the article as written. He then selected the 3 highest scores of all the 32 chokes shot and had an "editorial comment" that they were the 3 highest. The reader can look at the chart and see that for himself. The editor just put a sidebar and stated that.
His comments were not a part of the article just a comment made by him.
Thanks,
Clark
Thanks for the clarification Clark...I misunderstood what you had said.
Quote from: Mike Honcho on March 21, 2015, 05:18:17 AM
Thanks for the clarification Clark...I misunderstood what you had said.
You're welcome. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions about a gun/choke combination.
Thanks,
Clark
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 19, 2015, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: BHMTitan on March 19, 2015, 10:20:20 AM
Clark,
Could you list the results for each gun / choke / shell combo here on OG?
I'll be happy to answer any specific question you may have about a particular gun or choke combination.
Thanks,
Clark
Hey Clark, did you see pattern variations with any of the particular guns/ chokes? Curious about Rem 870 and Kicks .655.
Quote from: Longshanks on March 21, 2015, 01:41:08 PM
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 19, 2015, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: BHMTitan on March 19, 2015, 10:20:20 AM
Clark,
Could you list the results for each gun / choke / shell combo here on OG?
I'll be happy to answer any specific question you may have about a particular gun or choke combination.
Thanks,
Clark
Hey Clark, did you see pattern variations with any of the particular guns/ chokes? Curious about Rem 870 and Kicks .655.
I shot the Kick's .655 through the Mossberg 930 and it die an excellent job. It turned in a 206, just behind the Pure Gold of 224 and the SSX with a 220. All those chokes in that gun had great patterns with no gaps 2" or larger.
I did not shoot that choke in the Rem-Choke guns however.
All chokes and guns were pretty consistent at this temperature. Where I saw the most variance was when I shot at temperatures that were warmer or cooler than the evaluation temperatures.
We quite often do not emphasize the difference that temperature makes in performance of a shotshell or of a shotshell and a particular turkey choke. I don't think that's intentional, it's just an unknown by many folks who have not taken the time or had the inclination to evaluate a variety of chokes and shells at different temperatures.
Maybe one of the real values of what I just did is the real interest on the part of some manufacturers to improve their products by evaluating for themselves the real variance that various temperatures can make on their products. I've had long conversations with some of them about this subject.
Thanks,
Clark
*corrected spelling error 4/2/15
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 21, 2015, 10:43:54 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on March 21, 2015, 01:41:08 PM
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 19, 2015, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: BHMTitan on March 19, 2015, 10:20:20 AM
Clark,
Could you list the results for each gun / choke / shell combo here on OG?
I'll be happy to answer any specific question you may have about a particular gun or choke combination.
Thanks,
Clark
Hey Clark, did you see pattern variations with any of the particular guns/ chokes? Curious about Rem 870 and Kicks .655.
I shot the Kick's .655 through the Mossberg 930 and it die an excellent job. It turned in a 206, just behind the Pure Gold of 224 and the SSX with a 220. All those chokes in that gun had great patterns with no gaps 2" or larger.
I did not shoot than choke in the Rem-Choke guns however.
All chokes and guns were pretty consistent at this temperature. Where I saw the most variance was when I shot at temperatures that were warmer or cooler than the evaluation temperatures.
We quite often do not emphasize the difference that temperature makes in performance of a shotshell or of a shotshell and a particular turkey choke. I don't think that's intentional, it's just an unknown by many folks who have not taken the time or had the inclination to evaluate a variety of chokes and shells at different temperatures.
Maybe one of the real values of what I just did is the real interest on the part of some manufacturers to improve their products by evaluating for themselves the real variance that various temperatures can make on their products. I've had long conversations with some of them about this subject.
Thanks,
Clark
Thanks Clark. The variances I am seeing in the patterns with my 870 rigs with kicks .655 seem to be mainly after shooting a number of shots. As long as I am shooting a clean barrel the patterns stay uniform. So far, shooting from 60-80 degrees I am seeing variances of only 15-20 pellets. Thank you for your continued research.
Which LongBeard shell are you shooting in that combination, Longshanks??
Quote from: SKFOOTER on March 22, 2015, 08:15:16 PM
Which LongBeard shell are you shooting in that combination, Longshanks??
Win LB 3" 6's. Most consistent patterns. Had trouble with Win LB 3" 5's/ .660 Kicks. Could just be my barrel.
Was the Indian Creek choke tested?
Clark,
what gun/barrel combination was the best performer?
Please explain the performance of the 835, if it was used against the others. Does the oversize bore of the 835 help?
Quote from: bushytail man on April 02, 2015, 08:48:44 AM
Clark,
what gun/barrel combination was the best performer?
Please explain the performance of the 835, if it was used against the others. Does the oversize bore of the 835 help?
For the 3" WLB shotshells with 1.75 oz. of #6 shot evaluation, I used the following guns.
Benelli Vinci
Benelli SBE
Browning BPS
Mossberg 835
Mossberg 930
Remington 11-87
I evaluated chokes from:
Truglo
Mossberg
JEB's
Hevi-Shot
Trulock
Primos
Indian Creek
Comp N Choke
Wright's
Ballistic Specialties
Pure Gold
Kick's
Carlson's
It's very important to look at the exit diameters of the chokes used in the
different thread types. They are not all the same even if the manufacturer is the same.
It's also very important to note that the temperatures when I shot these shells, never got above the mid 50s and for the most part was in the low 50s. The numbers are not as impressive as we see some times when folks shoot in the 60s and 70s. A matter of 10 or 20 degrees can make a huge difference in the number of hits in a 10" circle. Temperature is the variable that most influences patterns because hot air is less dense than cold air.
The 835/935 bores are very interesting and can certainly throw excellent patterns. They always benefit from "deep cleaning" even more than other barrels, at least in my experience.
There were fewer entries in the 835 class than any of the others. There were 7 in the "Crio", 5 in the Mobil, 6 in the Invector, 5 in Invector+, 5 in Rem-Chok, and 4 in the 835.
The Hevi-Shot choke had the highest numbers in the 835 class with 220 and no gaps of 2" or more and the SSX followed with 186.
In my work with both the WLB shells and the H-13 shells, the Hevi-Shot choke in the 835 was the best overall with numbers and quality of patterns. It was consistent and outstanding.
I hope that helps.
Thanks,
Clark