Several months ago, after an number of inquiries about what choke worked best and in what gun, with the new Winchester Long Beard (WLB) shotshells, I decided that I would evaluate those shells through a variety of commercially made turkey chokes. I wanted to try to use the most popular guns used for turkey hunting as well as the turkey choke brands that are most discussed on Internet forums and produce the largest number of inquiries.
I had to make a few decisions before beginning the project including limiting the chokes to commercial makers. To be as fair as possible, I decided to ask each manufacturer to submit the choke, of any thread type, that they thought would do best with 3" WLB shells with 1.75 oz. of #6 shot. Most manufactures responded enthusiastically and some did not respond at all.
When all of the chokes were assembled, I had thread types for the Benelli "Crio", Benelli "Mobil", Win-Choke/Invector, Invector Plus, Rem-Choke, and Mossberg Accu-Mag for 835/935 shotguns. Consequently, I chose a Benelli Vinci, Benelli SBE, Mossberg 930, Browning BPS, Remington 11-87 and a Mossberg 835 shotgun for the evaluations. All shotguns had the same barrel length.
In the end, I had 32 different choke configurations that I shot through the 6 different shotguns. I shot each choke/gun/shell 3 times for a total of 96 shots. All were shot under similar conditions and in turkey hunting temperatures that many of us will encounter in spring and fall hunts.
The evaluation was as objective as I could make it and when you see the targets, the charts and read the article, you'll note that I draw no conclusions as to which choke performed the best in any particular shotgun. The reader can examine all of the results and draw his own conclusion.
The article will appear the the next "Turkey Country" magazine that should be in your mailbox in the next could of weeks. I hope you find it informative and helpful.
Thanks,
Clark
Can't wait to see the article and results Clark. I know you have a lot of time and effort into the project.
We turkey hunters appreciate that!
Sweet. Does not really apply to me but still interested either way.
Quote from: Mike Honcho on February 24, 2015, 07:27:45 PM
Can't wait to see the article and results Clark. I know you have a lot of time and effort into the project.
We turkey hunters appreciate that!
Me too!
Man I bet your shoulder's sore :z-guntootsmiley:
Thanks Clark!
Clark, how accurate do you feel the new Winchester Pattern Apps are??? :OGturkeyhead:
I don't get that magazine
Quote from: gaswamp on February 24, 2015, 09:38:51 PM
I don't get that magazine
Free subscription with NWTF membership.
Quote from: slwayne on February 25, 2015, 07:51:29 AM
Quote from: gaswamp on February 24, 2015, 09:38:51 PM
I don't get that magazine
Free subscription with NWTF membership.
Not sure if it's still active but BassPro was offering a $25 gift card if you joined the NWTF. For $10 I figured I can at least get some magazines.
I appreciate the positive comments. It was a major project and I hope you find the information helpful.
Thanks,
Clark
I am very interested in swing this. Thank you Blessings
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Quote from: SKFOOTER on February 24, 2015, 09:20:42 PM
Clark, how accurate do you feel the new Winchester Pattern Apps are??? :OGturkeyhead:
Once again, Clark. :OGturkeyhead:
Quote from: SKFOOTER on February 25, 2015, 03:57:16 PM
Quote from: SKFOOTER on February 24, 2015, 09:20:42 PM
Clark, how accurate do you feel the new Winchester Pattern Apps are??? :OGturkeyhead:
Once again, Clark. :OGturkeyhead:
Sorry, I can't be of any help there. I haven't spent any time with them. I did get the press release from Winchester but that's about it.
Thanks,
Clark
Quote from: allaboutshooting on February 26, 2015, 10:55:12 AM
Quote from: SKFOOTER on February 25, 2015, 03:57:16 PM
Quote from: SKFOOTER on February 24, 2015, 09:20:42 PM
Clark, how accurate do you feel the new Winchester Pattern Apps are??? :OGturkeyhead:
Once again, Clark. :OGturkeyhead:
Sorry, I can't be of any help there. I haven't spent any time with them. I did get the press release from Winchester but that's about it.
Thanks,
Clark
But surely you can view the patterns posted on their app versus your own personal patterning evaluations and come to some conclusion as to how their's compare to yours???
Sure I can do that. When you get your NWTF magazine this month, you can do that as well.
Thanks,
Clark
Where would this sport be with out Clark Bush.Thank you Clark for all your help. Now go ice that shoulder and take a couple Advil.And two shots of good stuff in a mason jar lol. Kevin
Got my magazine today and the article is stuffed full of info. Was the first thing I read. Good job Clark!
Just read the article. Looks like the SSX was a top performer along with the JEBS and rhino I believe.
Waiting on the mailman right now...looking forward to the read. Again....thanks Clark!!!
I really appreciate the positive comments and hope you find the information helpful.
Thanks,
Clark
Got the magazine yesterday and immediately read your article, my shoulder hurts for you! But thank you for what you endured to bring that information to us!
I do have a couple questions:
First, which chokes had wad strippers vs not, I've been thinking about a Pure Gold for win choke/invector, but I'm not sure what I want . . .
Second, we visited briefly at NWTF and I know why you did not have many 835 chokes, but what is your best guess on a more open Jebs choke, .650 seems a bit over-choked to me for that gun.
Again, thank you for that wealth of information!
I don't get the magazine. What chokes performed best in incevtor plus?
Was the ssx the top performer, really?. Kind of hard to beleive for me. It just so happens you have a truglo logo on your hat,your shirt and your gun! What a coincidence!.Now most of us understand my next point, its an evaluation of what chokes do in YOUR guns. I could go out and buy every gun you tested with every choke you tested and have completely different results. Guns are individuals. A choke that patterns great in your 21"bbl 870 12 ga probably is going to pattern differently in your buddys 21" bbl 870 12 ga. And an honest evaluation would have been to not approach the choke manufacturers @ all. How do you know the chokes they sent you werent modified in some way to pattern better with those particular shells?? Its hard for anyone to take these results with more than a grain of salt with all the "sponsorships" involved.Sorry but i call 'em like i see 'em
:popcorn:
Wish I could read the article, am I the only one still waiting for this issue to show up in their mailbox?
That was quite the undertaking! Good job Clark!! :icon_thumright:
I read the article and really appreciate the hard work, but one thing is blowing my mind. If I read it right you shot 3 times with each and then took out the high and the low. That would leave one shot so the table is showing one shot. Is that right?
I just don't understand how one shot means anything but as I said thank you for the work.
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 03, 2015, 05:06:32 PM
Was the ssx the top performer, really?. Kind of hard to beleive for me. It just so happens you have a truglo logo on your hat,your shirt and your gun! What a coincidence!.Now most of us understand my next point, its an evaluation of what chokes do in YOUR guns. I could go out and buy every gun you tested with every choke you tested and have completely different results. Guns are individuals. A choke that patterns great in your 21"bbl 870 12 ga probably is going to pattern differently in your buddys 21" bbl 870 12 ga. And an honest evaluation would have been to not approach the choke manufacturers @ all. How do you know the chokes they sent you werent modified in some way to pattern better with those particular shells?? Its hard for anyone to take these results with more than a grain of salt with all the "sponsorships" involved.Sorry but i call 'em like i see 'em
I'm looking at the article right now and the ssx (or any Truglo, for that matter) is NOT listed as the top performer in any thread pattern. Actually, the Truglo used to test the Rem-Choke was the WORST performing, still acceptable by the conventional 100 hits in the 10 inch circle, but 20+ pellets lower than the next one.
Quote from: jblackburn on March 03, 2015, 09:52:31 PM
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 03, 2015, 05:06:32 PM
Was the ssx the top performer, really?. Kind of hard to beleive for me. It just so happens you have a truglo logo on your hat,your shirt and your gun! What a coincidence!.Now most of us understand my next point, its an evaluation of what chokes do in YOUR guns. I could go out and buy every gun you tested with every choke you tested and have completely different results. Guns are individuals. A choke that patterns great in your 21"bbl 870 12 ga probably is going to pattern differently in your buddys 21" bbl 870 12 ga. And an honest evaluation would have been to not approach the choke manufacturers @ all. How do you know the chokes they sent you werent modified in some way to pattern better with those particular shells?? Its hard for anyone to take these results with more than a grain of salt with all the "sponsorships" involved.Sorry but i call 'em like i see 'em
I'm looking at the article right now and the ssx (or any Truglo, for that matter) is NOT listed as the top performer in any thread pattern. Actually, the Truglo used to test the Rem-Choke was the WORST performing, still acceptable by the conventional 100 hits in the 10 inch circle, but 20+ pellets lower than the next one.
There was one category where the truglo hit extremely high, just below the jebs or rhino. Did it perform best in all categories? No. However, there wasn't much difference in some cases especially when you factor in price $40 vs 80+. I'm an ssx fan. I have it on all my guns and would put it up against anyone scatter gun.
Quote from: darron on March 04, 2015, 08:14:12 AM
Quote from: jblackburn on March 03, 2015, 09:52:31 PM
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 03, 2015, 05:06:32 PM
Was the ssx the top performer, really?. Kind of hard to beleive for me. It just so happens you have a truglo logo on your hat,your shirt and your gun! What a coincidence!.Now most of us understand my next point, its an evaluation of what chokes do in YOUR guns. I could go out and buy every gun you tested with every choke you tested and have completely different results. Guns are individuals. A choke that patterns great in your 21"bbl 870 12 ga probably is going to pattern differently in your buddys 21" bbl 870 12 ga. And an honest evaluation would have been to not approach the choke manufacturers @ all. How do you know the chokes they sent you werent modified in some way to pattern better with those particular shells?? Its hard for anyone to take these results with more than a grain of salt with all the "sponsorships" involved.Sorry but i call 'em like i see 'em
I'm looking at the article right now and the ssx (or any Truglo, for that matter) is NOT listed as the top performer in any thread pattern. Actually, the Truglo used to test the Rem-Choke was the WORST performing, still acceptable by the conventional 100 hits in the 10 inch circle, but 20+ pellets lower than the next one.
There was one category where the truglo hit extremely high, just below the jebs or rhino. Did it perform best in all categories? No. However, there wasn't much difference in some cases especially when you factor in price $40 vs 80+. I'm an ssx fan. I have it on all my guns and would put it up against anyone scatter gun.
ssx is a fine choke, not knocking it at all. Making a point that just because Clark is sponsored did not mean he doctored results to make truglo products look better.
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 03, 2015, 05:06:32 PM
Was the ssx the top performer, really?. Kind of hard to beleive for me. It just so happens you have a truglo logo on your hat,your shirt and your gun! What a coincidence!.Now most of us understand my next point, its an evaluation of what chokes do in YOUR guns. I could go out and buy every gun you tested with every choke you tested and have completely different results. Guns are individuals. A choke that patterns great in your 21"bbl 870 12 ga probably is going to pattern differently in your buddys 21" bbl 870 12 ga. And an honest evaluation would have been to not approach the choke manufacturers @ all. How do you know the chokes they sent you werent modified in some way to pattern better with those particular shells?? Its hard for anyone to take these results with more than a grain of salt with all the "sponsorships" involved.Sorry but i call 'em like i see 'em
Did you even read the article? The tuglo chokes weren't the best chokes with any of the guns tested I'm not sure what you're trying to do but I think you're just making a fool of yourself "sorry just callin it like I see it"
:popcorn: :popcorn:
:TrainWreck1:
Well no i didnt read the article. I just took another posters word that the ssx was a top performer.Not big on "hunting" magazines.90+% of what most hunting mags print is pure marketing. You can call me whatever you want m77 but i think i have multiple valid points.
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 04, 2015, 03:54:40 PM
Well no i didnt read the article. I just took another posters word that the ssx was a top performer.Not big on "hunting" magazines.90+% of what most hunting mags print is pure marketing. You can call me whatever you want m77 but i think i have multiple valid points.
You attacked someone's credibility and questioned their integrity without ever actually reading the material you were criticizing and you think you have valid points?!?
Wow, incredible...
Quote from: jblackburn on March 04, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
Quote from: darron on March 04, 2015, 08:14:12 AM
Quote from: jblackburn on March 03, 2015, 09:52:31 PM
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 03, 2015, 05:06:32 PM
Was the ssx the top performer, really?. Kind of hard to beleive for me. It just so happens you have a truglo logo on your hat,your shirt and your gun! What a coincidence!.Now most of us understand my next point, its an evaluation of what chokes do in YOUR guns. I could go out and buy every gun you tested with every choke you tested and have completely different results. Guns are individuals. A choke that patterns great in your 21"bbl 870 12 ga probably is going to pattern differently in your buddys 21" bbl 870 12 ga. And an honest evaluation would have been to not approach the choke manufacturers @ all. How do you know the chokes they sent you werent modified in some way to pattern better with those particular shells?? Its hard for anyone to take these results with more than a grain of salt with all the "sponsorships" involved.Sorry but i call 'em like i see 'em
I'm looking at the article right now and the ssx (or any Truglo, for that matter) is NOT listed as the top performer in any thread pattern. Actually, the Truglo used to test the Rem-Choke was the WORST performing, still acceptable by the conventional 100 hits in the 10 inch circle, but 20+ pellets lower than the next one.
There was one category where the truglo hit extremely high, just below the jebs or rhino. Did it perform best in all categories? No. However, there wasn't much difference in some cases especially when you factor in price $40 vs 80+. I'm an ssx fan. I have it on all my guns and would put it up against anyone scatter gun.
ssx is a fine choke, not knocking it at all. Making a point that just because Clark is sponsored did not mean he doctored results to make truglo products look better.
That is not how Clark operates.
The article I read said three chokes performed beter than the rest. The ssx was one of the three so that sounds like top performer to me.
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 04, 2015, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 04, 2015, 03:54:40 PM
Well no i didnt read the article. I just took another posters word that the ssx was a top performer.Not big on "hunting" magazines.90+% of what most hunting mags print is pure marketing. You can call me whatever you want m77 but i think i have multiple valid points.
You attacked someone's credibility and questioned their integrity without ever actually reading the material you were criticizing and you think you have valid points?!?
Wow, incredible...
^X2
Really? You might consider doing some background on Clark and what he has done for turkey hunting & shotgun shooting before crying foul. Clark has helped me improve my gun's performance (& turkey hunting success) without playing favorites. He has objectively pointed me toward what works best in the the brands of guns I shoot and I'm grateful for it.
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 04, 2015, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 04, 2015, 03:54:40 PM
Well no i didnt read the article. I just took another posters word that the ssx was a top performer.Not big on "hunting" magazines.90+% of what most hunting mags print is pure marketing. You can call me whatever you want m77 but i think i have multiple valid points.
You attacked someone's credibility and questioned their integrity without ever actually reading the material you were criticizing and you think you have valid points?!?
Wow, incredible... :TrainWreckx2
Quote from: Benelli Man 22 on March 04, 2015, 06:16:34 PM
The article I read said three chokes performed beter than the rest. The ssx was one of the three so that sounds like top performer to me.
same article I read. Say what you want, but if I have a new scatter gun I'm going to invest in $35 with the ssx first before I drop $80-100 on a Jebs, rhino, etc. I don't know clark at all. But I do know for the money the ssx is hard to beat. Too many people on here use it.
Ok guys looking back at what i wrote maybe i was a little harsh.I apologize. I know the ssx can and will shoot great patterns. I also know that the chinese made truglo ssx has swelled in many peoples guns. Their chokes have failed time and again and there C.S. isn't very good. Only choke tube failure Ive seen personally was a chinese truglo. My issue is people pushing inferior products on impressionable people to make a profit. 95% of the time newbys come on here looking for a choke recommendation. Like a true salesman he chimes in and recommends chokes that he sells. Don't take this the wrong way guys, Ive seen enough :'( already. I'm not saying the chokes he recommends are bad recommendation's because he knows chokes and loads more than me or any other keyboard jockey. What i am saying is he doesn't ever recommend or even acknowledge certain other proven, world record setting, chokes made and sold by AMERICANS. But then again i can understand why when you are a "competitor" and sell chokes for a living.And Cutnrun Ive done tons of research,while i agree hes done alot for shotgun shooting, please enlighten me on all he has done for turkey hunting? Not saying he hasn't but I'm just not aware of anything "groundbreaking".
Thank you all for the positive feedback on the article. I hope that you find the information interesting and helpful in making a decision about what may work best for you with your particular shotgun.
I fired a total of 96 shells in the evaluation, through 32 different choke configurations and 6 different shotguns. I scored all of those targets, counting hits and using a 2" circle to measure gaps.
The shooting process took quite some time because I shot 32 shots at each range visit and wanted to duplicate the conditions as closely as possible, including temperature, humidity and barometric pressure. I alternated the times that I shot each brand of choke, so that none would have an advantage over the other.
I shot in temperatures that were as close as I could find to what many turkey hunters encounter in the spring and fall, low to mid 50s, so if you hunt in higher temperatures, you may expect density to be greater (pellet counts) higher than those listed in the chart. When I shot these shells/chokes in the 60s and 70s they were numbers were much higher. We sometimes underestimate the difference 10-15 degrees can make in the overall performance of a shotshell/choke combination.
As in most studies of this kind, it's proper to eliminate the highest and the lowest score. In that way you do not count the "hot" shell or the "bad" shell. In reality however, in this particular exercise, there was very little difference between the high and low scores of any of the targets shot. The shells were quite consistent in performance. The scores were just as you see them.
It was a good bit of work. If any of you have individual questions about a particular combination, I'd be happy to answer them as best I can. It may be best to send me a PM or an e-mail however to make sure that I see it. I'll answer as soon as possible that way.
Again, thanks for your feedback.
Clark
Clark Bush has helped this sport and the shooting sports so much.For one I am glad we have him here.He has help so many people with shooting problems.Weather with chokes or gun questions or ammo.And in less you use a bow for turkey that is one way he helps turkey hunting.So in till the next groundbreaking research comes along I'll go with this one. Thank you Clark
Kevin
Clark is a great guy. He and have had some valuable conversations, in which I always learned something. I've never though of him as bias.
I appreciate all of the positive comments.
Thanks again,
Clark
Clark.
I feel like I speak for the majority when I say thank you for all the hard work you put into to help us turkey hunters.
Your advice and opinions are always appreciated, and that does not go unnoticed.
Thank you,
Mike
Quote from: jordanz7935 on March 04, 2015, 03:54:40 PM
Well no i didnt read the article. I just took another posters word that the ssx was a top performer.Not big on "hunting" magazines.90+% of what most hunting mags print is pure marketing. You can call me whatever you want m77 but i think i have multiple valid points.
Turkey Country isn't just a hunting mag. It's about all things turkey, the NWTF and a lot more. Take a look and you will see. Clark's article is informative and unbiased. BTW I was glad to see the Ballistic Specialties choke in the line up. They've been in the performance shotgun game for a long time and don't get much press.