To start off I have never been a blind fan. BUT last year I started helping at our local learn to hunt program where we take anyone that has never turkey hunted out hunting. This involves kids and it is early in the season when there is absolutely no green and many times snow. So last year I implemented a blind and had success setting it up the morning we hunt, I also used it in an area where I only had a field to hunt, no fence lines so I had open field where I used the blind - again set-up every hunt.
Well it can be a ton of work hauling the gear and this year I will be hunting with a young kid so not much help hauling gear. I am thinking of pre-setting the blind but I have concerns of busting birds during set-up and changing their routine 2 days before the hunt. I have not noticed and freaking out from the birds when we show up in the mornings, I have had them brushing up against it last year(on video) in the middle of a dirt field.
What has been your experiences? Pre-set the blind or man up and haul like a mule?
And they are talking 30mph winds 2 days before and 20mph the day before the hunt. Its a double bull matrix blind but the ground is frozen except for a softened top couple few inches here in WI
Just set up four blinds on our hunting lease this past weekend. I use them some, but they're mostly for my father and grandfather. We bumped birds off the fields driving in in the morning when we started, but by noon there were birds walking within 20 yards of the blinds.
I don't think you'll have any problems setting up the blind two days before the hunt if it's in an area that the birds frequent. Take longer stakes and a cordless drill with a small bit to make pilot holes for them, hammer them in the rest of the way, and tie the blind off from the stakes to the hubs on all sides.
The weather answered my question. 40mph gusts and a couple inches of snow :angry9:
If there is a good chance to bust birds I would hall it in, I have a magnus rack pack, it is a blind carrier and chair all in one, so it eliminates carrying an extra chair..Not sure if you want to drop 100 bucks on it, but I mostly bow hunt and can run and gun with all my gear using this!
If you can slip in somewhere and not bother them much I would pre set, can you pre set at night, if so that is what i would do!
Pre setting blind will not affect the patterns of turkeys. As you already stated, they will walk up to them and try to get in them moments after putting them up.
Turkeys don't associate blinds, vehicles, hay bales, downed trees etc. as potential dangers. As you probably already know from your previous experiences. Deer on the other hand of course, is a different story.
App, I agree its not the "blind" its the setting up I was worried about spooking them off the pattern.
But I am not going to trust the blind in the open with the wind or the snow. So call me a mule ;D
Ive always tried to slide in during the early afternoon but have never had any troubles turning birds off their patterns.I usually haul everything in on one of those cheapie black plastic snowsleds.Easy to pack everything in on and can tie stuff down on it if need be.
I would have to disagree about birds being ingnorant of blinds! I hunted towards the opening of Nebraska archery season and the turkeys were in 15 to 75 group flocks. Toms weren't gobbling at all but hens were being social making lots of racket. I set up 1 blind 2 days prior to hunting and the birds wanted 0 to do with my blind. I set up another blind inside the edge of roosting trees. Again, the turkeys didn't want anything to do with the blind and only roosted from the opposite side of the trees. In fact, once they saw the blind they headed for the opposite side of the trees to fly up to roost. I thought it might be my decoys or calling until the 3rd and 4th days I used a ghost blind (mirrors) out in the open on the opposite side of the trees with the same decoy set up. The mirror blind blends 100% into the surroundings. At both morning and night of those days I was literally surrounded by turkeys...they couldn't see a blind so didn't shy away!
The first few days I got inside my blinds at around noon when the turkeys were high on the hills so I wouldn't disturb them when they returned to their roost trees. Were the large flocks of turkeys shy of my regular blinds. From everything I saw....yes they were! Will things likely change once they get into smaller flocks and toms get more aggressive....I'm about 90% sure they will! Things may be different in other states where toms are farther along in the rut and turkeys are broken up and not so cautious! If you are having problems with flocked up turkeys or henned up toms being shy of blinds try something different or possibly don't even use a blind!
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on April 01, 2014, 09:19:54 AM
To start off I have never been a blind fan. BUT last year I started helping at our local learn to hunt program where we take anyone that has never turkey hunted out hunting. This involves kids and it is early in the season when there is absolutely no green and many times snow. So last year I implemented a blind and had success setting it up the morning we hunt, I also used it in an area where I only had a field to hunt, no fence lines so I had open field where I used the blind - again set-up every hunt.
Well it can be a ton of work hauling the gear and this year I will be hunting with a young kid so not much help hauling gear. I am thinking of pre-setting the blind but I have concerns of busting birds during set-up and changing their routine 2 days before the hunt. I have not noticed and freaking out from the birds when we show up in the mornings, I have had them brushing up against it last year(on video) in the middle of a dirt field.
What has been your experiences? Pre-set the blind or man up and haul like a mule?
And they are talking 30mph winds 2 days before and 20mph the day before the hunt. Its a double bull matrix blind but the ground is frozen except for a softened top couple few inches here in WI
Don't mean to upset you but the scenario you described is not taking a kid hunting it's basically giving the kid a Wild Turkey.
That line of thinking and action is what's wrong with our society today....great things should be hard earned.
The right to kill a Wild Turkey should be earned not given...
Quote from: L.F. Cox on April 04, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on April 01, 2014, 09:19:54 AM
To start off I have never been a blind fan. BUT last year I started helping at our local learn to hunt program where we take anyone that has never turkey hunted out hunting. This involves kids and it is early in the season when there is absolutely no green and many times snow. So last year I implemented a blind and had success setting it up the morning we hunt, I also used it in an area where I only had a field to hunt, no fence lines so I had open field where I used the blind - again set-up every hunt.
Well it can be a ton of work hauling the gear and this year I will be hunting with a young kid so not much help hauling gear. I am thinking of pre-setting the blind but I have concerns of busting birds during set-up and changing their routine 2 days before the hunt. I have not noticed and freaking out from the birds when we show up in the mornings, I have had them brushing up against it last year(on video) in the middle of a dirt field.
What has been your experiences? Pre-set the blind or man up and haul like a mule?
And they are talking 30mph winds 2 days before and 20mph the day before the hunt. Its a double bull matrix blind but the ground is frozen except for a softened top couple few inches here in WI
Don't mean to upset you but the scenario you described is not taking a kid hunting it's basically giving the kid a Wild Turkey.
That line of thinking and action is what's wrong with our society today....great things should be hard earned.
The right to kill a Wild Turkey should be earned not given...
I have to disagree here some.Starting out young kids and giving them an edge for success is what keeps them interested in coming back.Repeated failure will turn a kid off quicker than anything.I've started my boy who is 7 hunting in a blind for that reason.Ive also explained to him that once he gets a little older the blind stays home and we hunt backs on bark.You wouldnt have the local high school pitching ace throw to a kid just learning to play baseball would ya?Ease them in slow then show them that it wont always be "easy" as you say. :z-twocents:
Cox I appreciate your minimalist approach and dedication to woodsmanship, I also appreciate the fact as humans we are able to adapt and use our knowledge and ingenuity in our pursuits.
I think I have been doing a pretty good job helping them learn. We have gone scouting, we had classroom time on turkey behavior/gun safety, etc., we have shot alot to get ready of the opportunity presents itself.
The landscape in my area consist of broken up 40's at best so working and locating birds across great tracks of land is not an option. Some areas all I can hunt is the field so cover is not an option.
We have 2 days for this program and the longer we spend in the field the better. We have little idea of the weather conditions and it is usually crappy, Its going to snow again tonight :angry9:
Using available products to lengthen the time afield is worth it to me. :)
Honestly - unless your wearing a loins cloth beating turkeys with a stick the whole anti-technology case is a bunch of smoke.
Quote from: jakesdad on April 04, 2014, 08:36:42 AM
Quote from: L.F. Cox on April 04, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on April 01, 2014, 09:19:54 AM
To start off I have never been a blind fan. BUT last year I started helping at our local learn to hunt program where we take anyone that has never turkey hunted out hunting. This involves kids and it is early in the season when there is absolutely no green and many times snow. So last year I implemented a blind and had success setting it up the morning we hunt, I also used it in an area where I only had a field to hunt, no fence lines so I had open field where I used the blind - again set-up every hunt.
Well it can be a ton of work hauling the gear and this year I will be hunting with a young kid so not much help hauling gear. I am thinking of pre-setting the blind but I have concerns of busting birds during set-up and changing their routine 2 days before the hunt. I have not noticed and freaking out from the birds when we show up in the mornings, I have had them brushing up against it last year(on video) in the middle of a dirt field.
What has been your experiences? Pre-set the blind or man up and haul like a mule?
And they are talking 30mph winds 2 days before and 20mph the day before the hunt. Its a double bull matrix blind but the ground is frozen except for a softened top couple few inches here in WI
Don't mean to upset you but the scenario you described is not taking a kid hunting it's basically giving the kid a Wild Turkey.
That line of thinking and action is what's wrong with our society today....great things should be hard earned.
The right to kill a Wild Turkey should be earned not given...
I have to disagree here some.Starting out young kids and giving them an edge for success is what keeps them interested in coming back.Repeated failure will turn a kid off quicker than anything.I've started my boy who is 7 hunting in a blind for that reason.Ive also explained to him that once he gets a little older the blind stays home and we hunt backs on bark.You wouldnt have the local high school pitching ace throw to a kid just learning to play baseball would ya?Ease them in slow then show them that it wont always be "easy" as you say. :z-twocents:
well said. I totally agree.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
A kid that has to earn or work for something will appreciate it more than a kid that has everything handed to him....
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on April 04, 2014, 11:11:22 AM
Honestly - unless your wearing a loins cloth beating turkeys with a stick the whole anti-technology case is a bunch of smoke.
When you get inside an enclosed blind you have defeated a Wild Turkeys only means of defense....his eye sight.
Combine that
fact with the use of dA'coys and what have you or the child accomplished by killing a turkey ?
Not much...just a bunch of smoke.
When I do use a blind, almost always for youth hunts, I always pre-set the blinds. Walmart has these extra large stakes you can get really cheap and they make a huge difference. Just this week we had 35 mph+ gusts and the stakes kept her solid, plus one string was tied to a tree for insurance. As for birds being blind shy, the bird my younger cousin shot this morning along with a jake walked within an arms length from the blind, I could have spit at him. Never had birds scared of blinds if I pre-set them.
"what have you or the child accomplished by killing a turkey"
Base lessons taught and learned that will evolve with them as they progress through the different levels of hunting. We lit a fire that they will now carry with them forever.
They have the rest of there lives to "learn" their way. No one can tell a person what is the best way, right way, and what way will mean more. There is so much more to a hunt then how it was lured in, how you concealed yourself, what you used to kill it.
Tell me this kid doesn't look proud, tell this kid after 15hrs of hunting, 4hrs of classroom and hrs practice shooting that he did not earn it.
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on April 07, 2014, 10:24:12 AM
"what have you or the child accomplished by killing a turkey"
Base lessons taught and learned that will evolve with them as they progress through the different levels of hunting. We lit a fire that they will now carry with them forever.
They have the rest of there lives to "learn" their way. No one can tell a person what is the best way, right way, and what way will mean more. There is so much more to a hunt then how it was lured in, how you concealed yourself, what you used to kill it.
Tell me this kid doesn't look proud, tell this kid after 15hrs of hunting, 4hrs of classroom and hrs practice shooting that he did not earn it.
Agree 100%.Ive been able to let my boy witness things from a blind that may take him years or never see by doing it "the right way".Bird reactions to calls,decoys,other birds are all easier to witness from a blind and it enables a kid to be more interactive and productive without trying to do what a kid does least of............sitting still.There will come a day when its no more blind for the boy,but for now we will use it.I respect Mr Cox and his opinion,but for somebody who
never uses blinds or decoys he seems to have a pretty expert opinion on how "easy";as he puts it;it is to kill birds by using them.
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on April 07, 2014, 10:24:12 AM
"what have you or the child accomplished by killing a turkey"
Base lessons taught and learned that will evolve with them as they progress through the different levels of hunting. We lit a fire that they will now carry with them forever.
No lesson on turkey hunting can be learned from a blind....you'll never make me believe there's a way to light a hunting fire in a kid by giving them a turkey.
I've took too many kids deer hunting and given them deer to later see them loose interested in hunting because they expected every time to be like the times I took them.
The point is hunting is either in their genes or it's not...you giving a kid an unearned turkey is not going to put it there.
I shot my first turkey out of a blind, with decoys. It certainly lit a fire in me but it also wasn't to long before I couldn't stand the confinement of a blind and we were out there working birds. Dad and I both started hunting turkeys together and we both decided early on that hunting out of a blind wasn't for us.
So as a guy who loves to hunt and is younger (25) I'd say a blind ain't going to ruin the kid but I think Frank does have a valid point. If the kid isn't interested or looks like he isn't having fun get him out of the blind and walk. He'll eat it up.
Telling a kid that shoots a turkey out of a blind that he really didnt earn is a sure fire way to put out the fire in my book.I'm all for letting a kid enjoy a few "gimmes" as you seem to call it and let them enjoy the joys of success then introduce them to the world of hunting outside the blind.Repeated failures with no hint of success is the easiest way to turn a kid off as oppossed to early confidence building with a little success.If they truly want to hunt they'll learn to do it without a blind,but to start them out without as many advantages as you can give them is a quick way to drive them back inside to the video games.I know very few kids that killed birds out a blind for a couple of years then got skunked a few times before killing one without that gave up hunting all together,but can name several who lost interest because of often repeated failures by doing it only by "earning" it as you put it.
Kids these days don't want to work for anything because they have parents that hand everything to them.
A kid should start out hunting small game....If his interests last then he should be exposed to hunting big game. I honestly think it should be a requirement by Game and Fish Commissions to hunt small game before you can hunt big game animals.
When I have time I'll post the story about the time I took a 14 year old kid turkey hunting and the gobbler he killed without the use of a blind or decoys...to which he exclaimed "this is real turkey hunting".
He had previously killed 3 or 4 nice longbeards out of a blind and killed a jake the day he hunted with me....
Which hunt do you think will be his most memorable ?
His days sitting in the safety of a dark enclosed blind with a da'coy spread never knowing if they actually called the turkeys in or they just came to the da'coys.....or the time in the woods with me hunting in a light drizzle when we moved on a gobbler 3 times before this jake slipped in ?
And how would he have known the difference without the other experiences? The only person dictating how one should hunt is you, everyone else is giving options.
[/quote]No lesson on turkey hunting can be learned from a blind....you'll never make me believe there's a way to light a hunting fire in a kid by giving them a turkey.
I've took too many kids deer hunting and given them deer to later see them loose interested in hunting because they expected every time to be like the times I took them.
The point is hunting is either in their genes or it's not...you giving a kid an unearned turkey is not going to put it there.
[/quote]
Huh so your saying no matter how I decide to teach it makes no difference because they have it or they don't. So tell me again why I need to ditch the blind and Da'coys :z-dizzy:
You talk about defeating a turkeys defense, well no kidding thats the point of concealment and camouflage, you rip on luring with decoys but you use calls to lure them in.
I say hunt legally and the way that makes the person happy.
Legal doesn't make it right.
Quote from: L.F. Cox on April 07, 2014, 11:33:20 PM
Legal doesn't make it right.
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: Can't teach an old dog new tricks!!! :TooFunny:
A blind in Florida is 3 or 4 dead palmetto fronts grabbed up quickly and thrown down by your feet , if you want to go deluxe you can cut down the palmetto bush in from of you and stick those in front of your feet --not total concealment by any stretch of the imagination , but sure helps to hide your outline a Florida hunter would be a fool not to use natural cover to his benefit
I have absolutely nothing against blinds , ( big expandable ones ) I can't speak for elsewhere in the country . But down here my opinion is that they actually hinder you way more than help - they restrict your hearing , vision ,weigh you down and most importantly render you immobile --very , very few Florida hunters use them , but I do see they are gaining in popularity --they are very hot inside those things , you roast in a hot sunny day in one -- if your with a fidgeting kid I assume they help - for those disabled , more power to you
I get to talk to hunters all over the country and there are many parts of the country especially out west and many say it's either you hunt out of a blind , or you don't hunt , it was explained to me that the areas they frequent are similar to areas like you see with the layout goose blinds -- places that are impossible to hunt another way
One problem I hear about is where people are taking the blinds and setting them on public and attempting to lay claim to a spot like if they placed a tree stand - if I was to have a altercation with another hunter and they tried to use the blind for this purpose , there would be a situation
I prefer not to use them in Florida because I think they hinder you ( down here) , but with a kid , they do help
OG agreed. I have used natural blinds and a few times a year a pop-up when no cover is available or with a hunter that I feel will require more interaction.
I am not a blind fan myself. But in situations I will use them. Do I dislike the out of touch feel I get using one? Yes and this goes for natural and pop-ups.
I use what I have available to reach the end goal, an enjoyable hunt.
Im like alot of you and do not like being in a blind;harder to see,harder to hear,hotter than an oven,etc.But with a kid (especially a younger one 10 or under)it is definetely a plus.We tried fall hunting for turkeys this year and without the blind Jacob is so fidgety looking at birds,squirrels,and everything else going on in the timber it makes it almost impossible to kill birds.With the blind he is able to enjoy all that plus stay hidden=more success.
Im not gauging success on a dead bird either.We had lots of birds around us this year we just watched do their thing while inside the blind and we never raised a gun.He got to see birds move about naturally and how they called to each other.Doubt he could of witnessed that by not using a blind.
As far as legal dont make it right,what about using dogs in the fall?Not even legal here in MO like other states.So is it a "earned" turkey if I use a dog to bust up a flock?To each their own and stop preaching to others about how they should be hunting just because you dont like it.
Quote from: jakesdad on April 08, 2014, 07:40:51 AM
Im like alot of you and do not like being in a blind;harder to see,harder to hear,hotter than an oven,etc.But with a kid (especially a younger one 10 or under)it is definetely a plus.We tried fall hunting for turkeys this year and without the blind Jacob is so fidgety looking at birds,squirrels,and everything else going on in the timber it makes it almost impossible to kill birds.With the blind he is able to enjoy all that plus stay hidden=more success.
Im not gauging success on a dead bird either.We had lots of birds around us this year we just watched do their thing while inside the blind and we never raised a gun.He got to see birds move about naturally and how they called to each other.Doubt he could of witnessed that by not using a blind.
As far as legal dont make it right,what about using dogs in the fall?Not even legal here in MO like other states.So is it a "earned" turkey if I use a dog to bust up a flock?To each their own and stop preaching to others about how they should be hunting just because you dont like it.
My dog doesn't need a blind...
I like the first part where Jacob was enjoying the outdoors....after all that's what it's all about.
Ask Jacob which he prefers a sky over head and watching all Gods creatures doing what they naturally do or sitting in the darkness and safety of a covered blind in ambush ?
if movement is a problem there are other options such as a short stake blind....although they do offer a slight advantage when it's time to shoot they don't unfairly defeat a wild turkeys defense system like an enclosed blind does.
One of my best my buddy's sons just got his first turkey the other day. I think he's in his twenty's now and autistic....killed him on public land without a blind or da'coy. Shot him about 10 or 15 yards my buddy said he didn't think he would ever shoot....he was waiting on his dad to tell him to shoot.
Wish I could have been there.
Actually he prefers the blind.I've given him the choice several times and he prefers the blind because he knows he can get away with being a little more fidgety and still watch critters.
I hope we dont have a misunderstanding about this blind thing,i've told him flat out that in a couple years its no blind and we go at it like its supposed to be.We've done it in the fall turkey hunting and deer hunting and to be quite honest the kid doesnt mind it either way...........he just likes to be outside.I'll continue to give him every edge I can for a few years.He's seen me take deer and turkey in the fall without a blind so he knows both ways.I'm not going to pressure him into anything and just let him enjoy the outdoors in his own little way.And if when he gets older and hunts on his own and wants to use the blind i'll let him.................but he's packin it in.Its his experience to live as he sees fit;nobody elses.
Quote from: jakesdad on April 04, 2014, 08:36:42 AM
Quote from: L.F. Cox on April 04, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on April 01, 2014, 09:19:54 AM
To start off I have never been a blind fan. BUT last year I started helping at our local learn to hunt program where we take anyone that has never turkey hunted out hunting. This involves kids and it is early in the season when there is absolutely no green and many times snow. So last year I implemented a blind and had success setting it up the morning we hunt, I also used it in an area where I only had a field to hunt, no fence lines so I had open field where I used the blind - again set-up every hunt.
Well it can be a ton of work hauling the gear and this year I will be hunting with a young kid so not much help hauling gear. I am thinking of pre-setting the blind but I have concerns of busting birds during set-up and changing their routine 2 days before the hunt. I have not noticed and freaking out from the birds when we show up in the mornings, I have had them brushing up against it last year(on video) in the middle of a dirt field.
What has been your experiences? Pre-set the blind or man up and haul like a mule?
And they are talking 30mph winds 2 days before and 20mph the day before the hunt. Its a double bull matrix blind but the ground is frozen except for a softened top couple few inches here in WI
Don't mean to upset you but the scenario you described is not taking a kid hunting it's basically giving the kid a Wild Turkey.
That line of thinking and action is what's wrong with our society today....great things should be hard earned.
The right to kill a Wild Turkey should be earned not given...
I have to disagree here some.Starting out young kids and giving them an edge for success is what keeps them interested in coming back.Repeated failure will turn a kid off quicker than anything.I've started my boy who is 7 hunting in a blind for that reason.Ive also explained to him that once he gets a little older the blind stays home and we hunt backs on bark.You wouldnt have the local high school pitching ace throw to a kid just learning to play baseball would ya?Ease them in slow then show them that it wont always be "easy" as you say. :z-twocents:
Agree...no shame in using a blind...now having no other tactics in your arsenal makes you an incomplete turkey hunter...it's not as if the fact you have a blind somehow magically causes turkeys to come into 30 yards waving a white flag, if anything it's more restrictive cause if you need to shift 25-30 yards to get in front of a bird you really can't.
Okay I am a blind hunter now ,I started about 9 years ago with my first of 3 boys now say what you want, it is a pain to take in in and out every day .But here's a big up side of blind hunting
1. weather = when that crazy storm pops up i am dry, I can run a heater when it's cold .
2 less bugs
3 I can sit in a nice comfortable chair .
4 kids can move all they want
5 keeps you out of poison ivy,oak,
6 and did I mention the no tick thing found 1 tick in the last 7 years .
And just get a deer cart to haul your gear in and out of the woods .
As far as setting up ,i have set up right under turkeys, many times with a blind .you just have to do it in the dark with NO lights .I set up at least 60 minutes before light .
I have everything organized in my backpack decoys ,calls strikers ,shells,thermacell ,heater ,lighter,so I don't have to dig around to find stuff .
Sent from my C811 4G
Quote from: L.F. Cox on April 04, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Don't mean to upset you but the scenario you described is not taking a kid hunting it's basically giving the kid a Wild Turkey.
That line of thinking and action is what's wrong with our society today....great things should be hard earned.
The right to kill a Wild Turkey should be earned not given...
I could not disagree more...
I look at kids and puppies in a similar fashion... When starting them off, I make it fun, and I make success easily attainable...
My daughter is 3 years old, and getting her started in the outdoors, I don't take her fishing, I take her "catching." I take her on easy hunts where I predict some action in pleasant weather (i.e. dove hunting in September). The more she goes with me, the more she wants to learn, and the more she will be willing to endure to go...
For some kids, that interest in hunting is almost inherent. For others it must be developed. But as a youngster, if you give them a taste of success, the inherent hunter will developed an increased desire to learn. And for those who are going cause daddy wants to take them, maybe after a taste of success they will want to go again, and then again, and develop that interest...
At some point when the cognitive skills and coordination are developed, and the desire is there... They can start to earn those birds on their own....
.
Quote from: Marc on May 27, 2014, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: L.F. Cox on April 04, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Don't mean to upset you but the scenario you described is not taking a kid hunting it's basically giving the kid a Wild Turkey.
That line of thinking and action is what's wrong with our society today....great things should be hard earned.
The right to kill a Wild Turkey should be earned not given...
I could not disagree more...
I look at kids and puppies in a similar fashion... When starting them off, I make it fun, and I make success easily attainable...
My daughter is 3 years old, and getting her started in the outdoors, I don't take her fishing, I take her "catching." I take her on easy hunts where I predict some action in pleasant weather (i.e. dove hunting in September). The more she goes with me, the more she wants to learn, and the more she will be willing to endure to go...
For some kids, that interest in hunting is almost inherent. For others it must be developed. But as a youngster, if you give them a taste of success, the inherent hunter will developed an increased desire to learn. And for those who are going cause daddy wants to take them, maybe after a taste of success they will want to go again, and then again, and develop that interest...
At some point when the cognitive skills and coordination are developed, and the desire is there... They can start to earn those birds on their own....
.
I have to say that I am on both sides of the fence on this issue. There are certainly times and conditions when the use of a tent blind is acceptable to me when teaching youngsters about hunting. There are also a lot of situations where using blinds, even when dealing with kids, diminishes the entire experience of introducing kids to the thrill of turkey hunting, in my opinion.
I started taking my kids with me when they were about six years old,...and we never, ever used a tent blind. I wanted them to experience nature, and the hunt, by being right in the middle of it,...and more importantly, I wanted them to learn that, to be a hunter, requires the development of certain skills,...such as using natural cover to hide, and learning that you have to be still. They learned by witnessing the reaction of game to their movements and thereby understanding the importance of not moving and choosing the proper place to "set up" to begin with.
To me, there is a pretty clear line between turkey "hunting",...and turkey "killing", and although I am not trying to start any arguments here about it, the use of tent blinds by adult hunters in any situation falls into the category of turkey "killing". Sorry if that offends anybody, but that is how I feel about it.
To me, an essential, and irreplaceable, skill in hunting turkeys is learning how to use natural cover and topography, even in the most difficult and demanding circumstances, and learning to remain still while doing so, such that birds will approach within shooting range. To me, adults (and kids in certain situations) that use tent blinds are nullifying a key component of the hunting experience as far as I am concerned. That component, to me, is not an option,...it is a requirement.
People that start off turkey hunting by thinking they need to get a tent blind to do it are starting off on the entirely wrong foot. My advice to those that are new to this sport is to ditch the blind and learn to hunt turkeys without the crutch. In the long run, you will be really glad you did!
End of todays sermon.... :D ;D
This thread is funny. :D
Quote from: firstflight111 on May 27, 2014, 12:36:44 PM
Okay I am a blind hunter now ,I started about 9 years ago with my first of 3 boys now say what you want, it is a pain to take in in and out every day .But here's a big up side of blind hunting
1. weather = when that crazy storm pops up i am dry, I can run a heater when it's cold .
2 less bugs
3 I can sit in a nice comfortable chair .
4 kids can move all they want
5 keeps you out of poison ivy,oak,
6 and did I mention the no tick thing found 1 tick in the last 7 years .
And just get a deer cart to haul your gear in and out of the woods .
As far as setting up ,i have set up right under turkeys, many times with a blind .you just have to do it in the dark with NO lights .I set up at least 60 minutes before light .
I have everything organized in my backpack decoys ,calls strikers ,shells,thermacell ,heater ,lighter,so I don't have to dig around to find stuff .
Sent from my C811 4G
Agree with everything said by first flight.
I killed a tom two years ago the was roosted 10 yards to east of blind. I was teasing a tom 30 yards away on roost when I heard wing beats, looked out front and my second biggest bird shot stood just outside the decoys. 15 min after legal time I was done. Made up for 15 hours in a blind at another spot the day before.
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 29, 2014, 03:31:05 PM
This thread is funny. :D
Really funny
All using self bows , wood arrows and flint heads to EARN your bird are ya.
Quote from: owlhoot on May 29, 2014, 11:12:31 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 29, 2014, 03:31:05 PM
This thread is funny. :D
Really funny
All using self bows , wood arrows and flint heads to EARN your bird are ya.
Yep, just like our native American forefathers. :TooFunny:
I started turkey hunting naked laying in the grass until a bird walked by. Took me 7 days with no food or water. Once I killed that bird, I was then able to make a wingbone yelper and used the feather to make arrow fletchings. Some hand napped arrowheads from flint I FOUND, that was not given to me, were then used. I made my own longbow and string from naturally found vegetation. Once I started being able to kill birds with this new contraption (bow and arrow), I was much more successful. It is difficult to hunt naked in Florida due to mosquitos, but by golly, I am going to EARN my birds. Using camo clothes just takes away the birds natural defense of sight. Currently, I am trying to find a vein of saltpeter and of iron ore to make my first gun.
Hunt however you want and take your young'uns however you want and however they enjoy as long as you are legal. I don't need the approval of a keyboard expert to tell me how to hunt. All of us are hunting for sport, not for support, so it is just what makes it fun for you.
Quote from: g8rvet on May 30, 2014, 01:58:49 PM
Hunt however you want and take your young'uns however you want and however they enjoy as long as you are legal. I don't need the approval of a keyboard expert to tell me how to hunt. All of us are hunting for sport, not for support, so it is just what makes it fun for you.
This is entirely true. Hunt the way you want. If you are happy with it, stick with it.
The point I was trying to make is for those newly indoctrinated into our ranks as turkey hunters that might think that sitting in a blind watching decoys and chirping somewhat like a turkey on occasion is the standard, accepted method of turkey hunting. That form of turkey hunting is relatively new.
As one who got into spring gobbler hunting in the mid-1960's, the "standard, accepted method" of that era was to learn to call turkeys, go to the turkey woods, find a gobbling bird, set-up on him, and call him to the gun. Sitting in a tent blind overlooking a field with a bunch of turkey decoys in front of you,...similar to goose hunting,...was never even considered as a hunting method.
Over the last fifty years, I have taught hundreds of people how to spring gobbler hunt. They were, and still are, taught the "old" way. Many of them are still around and hunt turkeys to this day. Those individuals are also well aware of the "new" tactics of blinds and decoys,...and guess what? To my knowledge there is not a single one of them that has chosen the "new" way over the "old" way.
Why is that? I can state unequivocally that, if you asked them, the vast majority of those folks would give you the same response. That response would be something like this,..."Why would someone choose to hunt turkeys sitting in a blind watching decoys when they could get out in the woods, find a gobbler, and call him in? That is the essence of turkey hunting."
Now, before a bunch of you get your panties in a wad over that, let me say again: Hunt the way you want to hunt. Period. ...But if you want to introduce your kids to the sport of spring gobbler hunting, do them a favor and at least give them the option of choosing the old way over the new. I have no doubt in my mind which of the two methods they will eventually choose to continue, and I suspect they will do it much sooner than you think.
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 30, 2014, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on May 30, 2014, 01:58:49 PM
Now, before a bunch of you get your panties in a wad over that, let me say again: Hunt the way you want to hunt. Period. ...But if you want to introduce your kids to the sport of spring gobbler hunting, do them a favor and at least give them the option of choosing the old way over the new. I have no doubt in my mind which of the two methods they will eventually choose to continue, and I suspect they will do it much sooner than you think.
Sitting in a blind does not appeal to me either...
But, not every kid has the discipline to sit still... Being able to sit still and take game (especially as still as you have to sit for an approaching turkey), is a bit of a learned skill for most of us... Heck most adults I know are not capable of such... I know while taking my less fanatic duck hunting partners, that the term "hold still" seems to cause some sort of amplified head twisting neck seizure.
I will likely take my nephew (wife's side) out next season if he gets a license. Never hunted anything, and learning the ropes of shooting a shotgun this year. I'd likely set up a blind for a morning hunt, and then roam around a bit... I will go home when he asks to go home. But from a blind, I will be able to point out the birds, direct him to which bird to shoot, and he will have some freedom to move around the blind a bit without getting us busted.
My daughter who is only 3 has been dove hunting and fishing with me. She enjoys the experience, and was asking to go with me every time... If the opportunity arises, I might just take her out to sit in such a blind with me for a bit (as I have no illusions of the capabilities of a 4 year old being able to sit still). I can bring some toys, and take some binoculars (which she already loves to use), and we will be hunting in a camouflage playhouse... How cool is that for a 4 year old...
When I take my child (or any child) hunting or fishing, that experience becomes all about the child... I have been the host for a number of water fowl junior hunts, and most of the time, I cannot hunt in the manner I normally enjoy myself... I do my best to create a situation that allows for success and enjoyment for the child.
First get them interested, and then develop that interest.
Quote from: Marc on May 30, 2014, 10:38:59 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 30, 2014, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on May 30, 2014, 01:58:49 PM
Now, before a bunch of you get your panties in a wad over that, let me say again: Hunt the way you want to hunt. Period. ...But if you want to introduce your kids to the sport of spring gobbler hunting, do them a favor and at least give them the option of choosing the old way over the new. I have no doubt in my mind which of the two methods they will eventually choose to continue, and I suspect they will do it much sooner than you think.
Sitting in a blind does not appeal to me either...
But, not every kid has the discipline to sit still... Being able to sit still and take game (especially as still as you have to sit for an approaching turkey), is a bit of a learned skill for most of us... Heck most adults I know are not capable of such... I know while taking my less fanatic duck hunting partners, that the term "hold still" seems to cause some sort of amplified head twisting neck seizure.
I will likely take my nephew (wife's side) out next season if he gets a license. Never hunted anything, and learning the ropes of shooting a shotgun this year. I'd likely set up a blind for a morning hunt, and then roam around a bit... I will go home when he asks to go home. But from a blind, I will be able to point out the birds, direct him to which bird to shoot, and he will have some freedom to move around the blind a bit without getting us busted.
My daughter who is only 3 has been dove hunting and fishing with me. She enjoys the experience, and was asking to go with me every time... If the opportunity arises, I might just take her out to sit in such a blind with me for a bit (as I have no illusions of the capabilities of a 4 year old being able to sit still). I can bring some toys, and take some binoculars (which she already loves to use), and we will be hunting in a camouflage playhouse... How cool is that for a 4 year old...
When I take my child (or any child) hunting or fishing, that experience becomes all about the child... I have been the host for a number of water fowl junior hunts, and most of the time, I cannot hunt in the manner I normally enjoy myself... I do my best to create a situation that allows for success and enjoyment for the child.
First get them interested, and then develop that interest.
Your points are solid, Marc. I just believe it is a good idea to, at some point, introduce them to the "old" way and let them then decide which they prefer. Like I said, from a personal standpoint,...in all my years of doing this and introducing many others to it, I have never seen one that has chosen the "new" way over the "old" way. To me, that is plenty of evidence for me to conclude that the one is more appealing than the other. But again, in the end,...to each his own...:)
My son's first duck was a water whacked woodie. He was using a 20 gauge and we needed woodies for our annual cook I let him take a couple (the limit at the time). We had a discussion about water whacking and how it is not really sporting-meaning fun, to be clear because the duck don't really care how he is whacked (personally, if I am harvesting for a recipe and want some clean, no breast shot ducks, I will water whack the heck out of them-usually ringers for the smoker or woodies for the table - but that is just harvesting ducks for a recipe, not wingshooting). He can tell you exactly when, where and the species of what he considers his first duck - a flying Gadwall in Miss, he doesn't even count the many woodies he waterwhacked as a kid. He quickly learned what I meant and is now a 25 year old, hardcore wingshooting duck hunter. So the theory of early success would ruin him is bunk. We don't ground swat mallards and we don't rifle hunt turkeys, even where legal. I also won't judge what you do, I will just politely think to myself that it does not sound fun to me.