Well I took some advice and called Indian Creek about my pattern with their choke and the Hevi 13 7s were putting up out of my 835. (I was getting around 200 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards) The guy I talked to said they were getting several complaints about the Hevi 7s this year not doing what they should, he seemed to think it was probably a bad batch of ammo. Any way he said to try the Winchester extended range in # 6 shot. What do you think? What kind of patterns should I expect from the Winchesters?
835, 24" well polished barrel, IC .675 choke, Winchester XRHD 3.5" #6, laser ranged 40 yards, 10" circle, 75 degrees, 225 pellets.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/stcb/PatternM835.jpg)
That's a "very" good pattern for #6's. I've only been able to better those numbers with Hevi13 #7's. Although, I do use 3" shells exclusively.
:icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
GREAT pattern.....that is the same combo I use in my 835 as well :icon_thumright:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/drum817/Patterns/NEWMics007.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/drum817/Patterns/NEWMics006.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/drum817/Patterns/2009patterns004.jpg)
Look at your whole pattern, is it even, cover the 20" and the 10" well? If so, then you have a great turkey killing pattern.
I would probably be looking to improve as well, but you really don't need to. If you are unhappy send the choke back and get a refund then get a PG .670.
The Win XRHD will prove to be a great load I believe as well. The results speak for themselves. You will just have to shoot to see. You can just step up to the Hevi #6 too, same density of the pellets and you can get 2 1/4 oz in a 3.5" shell.
Sounds close to KICK's gt advice!!! :TooFunny:
Try as many different shells that you can afford to. Yesterday I was patterning at 41 yds with my new gun 870 supermag with IC .665 with max blends 3 1/2", and the winchester extended range 3" 6's good numbers all around 250. Then I tried some winchester supremes 6's 3" got 242 but the patterns is so even and tight with no holes.
Bad batch of ammo, yeah right! If that is what the guy said then I would say that is a piss poor excuse for lack of performance. I haven't heard of any other choke companies having performance problems with Hevi-13 #7's.
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 15, 2011, 09:47:53 AM
Yeah, I know a guy that is shooting the #7s, and only getting around 210-215 with a Browning Gold and .675 IC, was getting less with the .665. He shot one yesterday, and had to shoot him again to finish him. First off I would have thought he would have gotten a better pattern, and so did Stuart at IC. I am going to let him pattern some 3" and 3.5" #6s Ive had for a few years, to see what they do in his gun. Could be the shells.
Well here's what I experienced the other day which leads me to say that it is in fact the shells. I shot this one through a clean choke with the Star Dot in my 835.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF00844.jpg)
Then I shot this one from the exact same lot number form the same box and same choke. Look at the difference. That is huge. No doubt in my mind now it was the shells. No choke will drop off that much from one shot. There is only 209 shot in that 10" circle. The 20" sucked as well. That shell sucked.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Maybe you all should post the batch numbers off your boxes so that you can compare the numbers and see if indeed it is the shells.
I use Hevi #6 shot with my 870 with the Indian Creek choke. It is a turkey killing machine! It works great with the 4x5x7 Nitros as well. I hope I never have to make the choice again, but dropped a bird stone dead at 70 yards with the Hevi #6 load and Indian Creek choke in KS last spring.
I then proceeded to shoot these patterns with the same box of shells through 2 different chokes afterwards. Only shot one shot in each choke with the same load of Hevi-13 3.5" #7's from the same lot above.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF00853.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF00813.jpg)
At first I thought it was the Star Dot choke taking a spell or something. But now I'm convinced I got a bad shell.
I have never had to reclean a choke after every shot to get consistent numbers. All 3 of my 835 chokes will shoot with the best of them time and time again.
Guess I will try the Winchesters and see what they will do. If that dont improve my numbers then I may look at trying the PG 670. May have to go ahead and use what I have this year though my wife may not let me buy another 80 dollar choke.
Heck just go buy you a cheap Tru-Glo SSX for around $40 shipped to your door. From what I have seen so far that choke will shoot with the best of them.
That Indian Creek choke should shoot. I would try another box of shells or try the Win like you said. I was just throwing the Tru-Glo out there as a cheaper alternative. But I can tell you that it will shoot very well. I paid $23 for mine off gunbroker. The best $23 I ever spent.
That is why I switched from H 13 in the 20.. Its not a big deal in the 12 to go from 280 to 200.. But in the 20 its a big deal to go from 140 to 80.. The variation in the pellet size leads to eradicate numbers..
I called IC a few weeks ago and Stuart told me the same thing and I believe he's somewhat right, I still have a few shells from last year and the ones I bought this year won't shoot near as good as last years batch so I contacted EM and was told they made a powder change from last year, when I get home I'll get the mans name I spoke to and ya'll can email and see if they tell you the same thing.
Quote from: chipper on March 15, 2011, 04:14:23 PM
so I contacted EM and was told they made a powder change from last year, when I get home I'll get the mans name I spoke to and ya'll can email and see if they tell you the same thing.
Reason Number 2 I dont shoot their shells
Quote from: chipper on March 15, 2011, 04:14:23 PM
I contacted EM and was told they made a powder change from last year,
YOU GOTTA FREAKIN' BE KIDDIN' ME.....Why can't that company leave crap ALONE.....I have 7's left over from last year. When those are gone....THEN WHAT ?? Their slogan ought to be... "Hevi-13, if it ain't broke....we'll break it". :character0029: :character0029: :character0029:
I just wanted to say you several guys who posted pic's of the Win Ex-range patterns. WOW . I would take that any day over the #7's.
I do not remember how my guns did with the Ex-range stuff?? Must have been well because I just checked and I have 2 full boxes of 3" and 2 boxes of the 3 1/2.
I do remember how hard it rocked the patterning backer I was shooting at though, it was only second to the Fed HW that I had shot.
Quote from: Fullfan on March 15, 2011, 05:27:53 PM
I just wanted to say you several guys who posted pic's of the Win Ex-range patterns. WOW . I would take that any day over the #7's.
I do not remember how my guns did with the Ex-range stuff?? Must have been well because I just checked and I have 2 full boxes of 3" and 2 boxes of the 3 1/2.
I do remember how hard it rocked the patterning backer I was shooting at though, it was only second to the Fed HW that I had shot.
I do shoot the Xtended's in my 835 & I have no plans to change....however I shoot the 7's in my Supernova because that gun is A LOT more "picky" about loads and the 7's from last year were doing GREAT....My worst pattern with the 7's was 300 in the 10" with my Supernova. When EM screws with the load then I have to start the process all over again. I am just about done with that company.
I dont shoot a mossy, but I shoot an IC with winchester extended 6s. I like what get out of it.
Quote from: bird on March 15, 2011, 09:36:42 AM
Bad batch of ammo, yeah right! If that is what the guy said then I would say that is a piss poor excuse for lack of performance. I haven't heard of any other choke companies having performance problems with Hevi-13 #7's.
How come the people that absolutly do not have a clue what they are talking about always have to talk? Blows my mind
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :bike2:
Quote from: gobb-lemon on March 15, 2011, 09:48:37 PM
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :bike2:
Mr. Doe doesn't know who Spurgetter is :angel9: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :angel9:
Quote from: drum817 on March 15, 2011, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: gobb-lemon on March 15, 2011, 09:48:37 PM
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :bike2:
Mr. Doe doesn't know who Spurgetter is :angel9: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :angel9:
Im sure they will work it out :fud: one way or another :begging: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Quote from: drum817 on March 15, 2011, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: gobb-lemon on March 15, 2011, 09:48:37 PM
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :bike2:
Mr. Doe doesn't know who Spurgetter is :angel9: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :angel9:
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Quote from: JohnDoe on March 15, 2011, 10:33:16 PM
Hey the laugh is on me. What are they brothers?
Spurgetter is one of the
owners of Indian Creek.....If he says it's a bad batch of Ammo then it's probably the case. Hevi-13 is VERY BAD about screwing up loads by changing components every few years.....and....it looks like Hevi-13 has now ONCE AGAIN started screwing up the #7 load. Like I said earlier, their company logo should be
"Hevi-13... if it ain't broke ....we'll break it"
I saw the same thing on Sunday with my new Hevishot #7 3" 2oz loads. Was patterning my 12 gauge and it absolutely sucked bad from 40 yards. I had about the same # of pellets in the 10" circle as my son had with his 20 gauge shooting 1 1/4 oz 3" #7 Hevishot. Both with Indian Creek tubes. Didn't shoot the 20 from 30 yds with the hevishot.
12 gauge 870 super magnum:
40 yds:
Hevishot 2 oz #7 3" shell - 128 pellets in 10" circle
30 yds:
Hevishot 2 oz #7 3" shell - 269 pellets in 10" circle
20 gauge 870: (hevishot had more pellets at 40 than Federal at 30)
40 yds:
Hevishot 1.25 oz #7 3" shell - 121 pellets in 10" circle
30 yds:
Federal 1.25 oz #6 3" shell - 116 pellets in 10" circle
My experience is Indian Creek is concerned with your satisfaction. There going to tell you the what they think the solutions is even if it's sending the choke back for another constriction.
Quote from: drum817 on March 15, 2011, 10:44:11 PM
Quote from: JohnDoe on March 15, 2011, 10:33:16 PM
Hey the laugh is on me. What are they brothers?
Spurgetter is one of the owners of Indian Creek.....If he says it's a bad batch of Ammo then it's probably the case. Hevi-13 is VERY BAD about screwing up loads by changing components every few years.....and....it looks like Hevi-13 has now ONCE AGAIN started screwing up the #7 load. Like I said earlier, their company logo should be "Hevi-13... if it ain't broke ....we'll break it"
X2, I had the same experience 2 days ago with the str. 7s in a gun that shot nearly 300, this round of shooting was just over 200. Personally I cant stand incompetence and it seems like EM just cant keep it together. The IC guys will bend over backwards to make it work or you, Ive found a better mouse trap and hevi isnt in the picture.
The last thing i wan when I have a gobbler working in is to start wondering if the chambered shell is a good one.
Quote from: JohnDoe on March 15, 2011, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Spurgetter on March 15, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: bird on March 15, 2011, 09:36:42 AM
Bad batch of ammo, yeah right! If that is what the guy said then I would say that is a piss poor excuse for lack of performance. I haven't heard of any other choke companies having performance problems with Hevi-13 #7's.
How come the people that absolutly do not have a clue what they are talking about always have to talk? Blows my mind
Spurgetter
I assure you Bird knows a bit of what he talks about. You may have a different opinion, but no clue is a bit much.
John
Spurgetter I'm sure this will take some heat off the busted IC. chokes and finish coming off the new stainless chokes.I myself own 13 of your chokes and they are good shooters,but do have a few ?'s to ask you.Are the chokes being sold on GunBroker the ones made from the inferior metal?Why did you switch from carbon to stainless?Why does your choke internals get gouged and chipped and dented up after only a few shots of HEVI?Can the Fed. HW FCW really be shot thru your chokes without a problem?Why do your chokes sound like a harp out of tune when it brushes across a limb in the woods or when I go to remove a leaf or twig from the slotted ports.How many chokes have you had fail/break over the years?And what do you think was the cause?Just a few for now seeing you are a member of O/G now!
I own an Indian Creek BDS .665 RemChoke, and I like the product. I've put about 30 rounds of HTL and Magnum Lead through it, and I only see one nick inside the choke, on one of the wad catchers.
I really like the choke because of the porting design. It stops wad rotation dead in its tracks. The choke was a little expensive, but I'm glad I own one.
It shoots HTL as well as anything else I've tried, and it shoots Lead well too. I don't get huge numbers, but I get nice even coverage. Pellets on target out to 50 Yards.
I'm glad that Indian Creek is in the choke game. :icon_thumright:
Why in the world would EM mess with the #7 shells?
Someone on the inside of that company needs to speak up.
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 06:47:55 AM
I own an Indian Creek BDS .665 RemChoke, and I like the product. I've put about 30 rounds of HTL and Magnum Lead through it, and I only see one nick inside the choke, on one of the wad catchers.
And how many of those 30 shells were 2oz's or better of #6 HEVI-SHOT???
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 06:51:47 AM
Why in the world would EM mess with the #7 shells?
Someone on the inside of that company needs to speak up.
And some other Companies as well!!!
Quote from: S.C.C on March 16, 2011, 05:19:21 AM
Quote from: JohnDoe on March 15, 2011, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Spurgetter on March 15, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: bird on March 15, 2011, 09:36:42 AM
Bad batch of ammo, yeah right! If that is what the guy said then I would say that is a piss poor excuse for lack of performance. I haven't heard of any other choke companies having performance problems with Hevi-13 #7's.
How come the people that absolutly do not have a clue what they are talking about always have to talk? Blows my mind
Spurgetter
I assure you Bird knows a bit of what he talks about. You may have a different opinion, but no clue is a bit much.
John
Spurgetter I'm sure this will take some heat off the busted IC. chokes and finish coming off the new stainless chokes.I myself own 13 of your chokes and they are good shooters,but do have a few ?'s to ask you.Are the chokes being sold on GunBroker the ones made from the inferior metal?Why did you switch from carbon to stainless?Why does your choke internals get gouged and chipped and dented up after only a few shots of HEVI?Can the Fed. HW FCW really be shot thru your chokes without a problem?Why do your chokes sound like a harp out of tune when it brushes across a limb in the woods or when I go to remove a leaf or twig from the slotted ports.How many chokes have you had fail/break over the years?And what do you think was the cause?Just a few for now seeing you are a member of O/G now!
Waiting....
You guys have me really excited to shoot the 2 new boxes of h13 shells I bought last week :character0029: . I knew I should of bought more of them last year :bike2: . At the end of this season I'm going with a Nitros. Enough is enough EM. What the @#%$ are you doing?
Last year with the 7s I was around the 320s we will see what their new shells get me this weekend.
EM spoiled us with the good #7's. Now we can't be satisfied with anything less than 250 or 300 or 350. The "bad" #7's will probably pattern at least as good as the "good" #6's do/did. But then why would we use #7's?
As far as the Indian Creek choke thing goes, if mine ever breaks I'll just let them replace it. 10 chokes broke, and they replaced them. If the replacements are good, and there aren't a bunch of others that break, all of the piling on is just.........
:deadhorse:
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 08:53:36 AM
EM spoiled us with the good #7's. Now we can't be satisfied with anything less than 250 or 300 or 350. The "bad" #7's will probably pattern at least as good as the "good" #6's do/did. But then why would we use #7's?
The majority of patterns on here are ALREADY the Bad 7s
Quote from: shootumindaface on March 16, 2011, 08:56:16 AM
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 08:53:36 AM
EM spoiled us with the good #7's. Now we can't be satisfied with anything less than 250 or 300 or 350. The "bad" #7's will probably pattern at least as good as the "good" #6's do/did. But then why would we use #7's?
The majority of patterns on here are ALREADY the Bad 7s
x2 :agreed:
And strange, no answers from Spurgetter to my ?'s above or in pm's!!! >:(
Yup could explain the differences between a bunch of identical combos placing up big numbers and than much lower numbers.. Some folks are shooting what they had left from last year and than some have this years lots..
Good luck to the folks that are going to be tryingg to find the older lots, hardly anyone stocked them last year and when they did OG members bought them out LOL
This is exactly the reason when I found my 11-87 was shooting over 320 hits in a 10" circle, I bought up every box I could find from midsouth in that lot number. Ended up with 19 boxes, just so this crap wouldn't happen. EM is terrible for this. I ordered some 20 gauge hevi-13 7's a couple days ago, and I hope they shoot well. What has the report been on the 20 gauge 7's this year vs. last?? Any problems with them like the 12 gauge offerings?? I certainly hope not.
Whats really bad (as far as I'm concerned) is as picky as these tight shooting guns are with POI - there aint a doubt in my mind that thats gonna change too from a component change. I knew I shoulda bought Winchester- I guess I've got some more shooting to do.
Quote from: Spurgetter on March 15, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: bird on March 15, 2011, 09:36:42 AM
Bad batch of ammo, yeah right! If that is what the guy said then I would say that is a piss poor excuse for lack of performance. I haven't heard of any other choke companies having performance problems with Hevi-13 #7's.
How come the people that absolutly do not have a clue what they are talking about always have to talk? Blows my mind
In my opinion it is a bad business decision and a piss poor excuse to point fingers at another company for an issue that may or may not be the cause of the problem to begin with. If you truly feel that it is a Hevi-13 issue then prove it. Don't just blame them because you have a vested interest in IC. Back up your claims and prove what you are saying before you try blaming another company.
jmo
bird
if people dont like ic or hevi than buy something else, geez :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :bike2: :begging: :begging:
:agreed: :agreed:
And answer some simple questions about your product IC.!!!! :goofball:
Quote from: S.C.C on March 16, 2011, 05:19:21 AM
Spurgetter I'm sure this will take some heat off the busted IC. chokes and finish coming off the new stainless chokes.I myself own 13 of your chokes and they are good shooters,but do have a few ?'s to ask you.Are the chokes being sold on GunBroker the ones made from the inferior metal?Why did you switch from carbon to stainless?Why does your choke internals get gouged and chipped and dented up after only a few shots of HEVI?Can the Fed. HW FCW really be shot thru your chokes without a problem?Why do your chokes sound like a harp out of tune when it brushes across a limb in the woods or when I go to remove a leaf or twig from the slotted ports.How many chokes have you had fail/break over the years?And what do you think was the cause?Just a few for now seeing you are a member of O/G now!
I would like to hear the simple answers as well.
QuoteI knew I shoulda bought Winchester
Don't forget that Winchester changed the pellets in XRHD a few years back.
And Federal changed their Wad design.
Win Sup HV Lead may come back in style before it's all said and done.
What a joke this is all starting to be. :TooFunny:
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 11:52:16 AM
Don't forget that Winchester changed the pellets in XRHD a few years back.
And Federal changed their Wad design.
Win Sup HV Lead may come back in style before it's all said and done.
What a joke this is all starting to be. :TooFunny:
True dat!
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 16, 2011, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 11:52:16 AM
Don't forget that Winchester changed the pellets in XRHD a few years back.
And Federal changed their Wad design.
Win Sup HV Lead may come back in style before it's all said and done.
What a joke this is all starting to be. :TooFunny:
True dat!
and whats really funny is the shells are $5 bucks a pop -- and 99.9 of em I shoot I would kill with lead anyway -- screw it - I'm going back to lead #4's
Quote from: boyhowdy on March 16, 2011, 12:05:15 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 16, 2011, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 11:52:16 AM
Don't forget that Winchester changed the pellets in XRHD a few years back.
And Federal changed their Wad design.
Win Sup HV Lead may come back in style before it's all said and done.
What a joke this is all starting to be. :TooFunny:
True dat!
and whats really funny is the shells are $5 bucks a pop -- and 99.9 of em I shoot I would kill with lead anyway -- screw it - I'm going back to lead #4's
now your thinking :icon_thumright:
I can see the classified ads now:
"New Old Stock Hevi13 For Sale"
he said maybe it was the ammo.. never said it was a bad batch. get this discussion ended. all companies change there products cause of marketing ,price, quality. we all have done it. well i think i will shoot the 7's cause everybody is gettin better numbers....
Quote from: Gobble! on March 16, 2011, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: boyhowdy on March 16, 2011, 12:05:15 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 16, 2011, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 16, 2011, 11:52:16 AM
Don't forget that Winchester changed the pellets in XRHD a few years back.
And Federal changed their Wad design.
Win Sup HV Lead may come back in style before it's all said and done.
What a joke this is all starting to be. :TooFunny:
True dat!
and whats really funny is the shells are $5 bucks a pop -- and 99.9 of em I shoot I would kill with lead anyway -- screw it - I'm going back to lead #4's
now your thinking :icon_thumright:
or maybe I'll just pound paper 50-11 times seeing how many little bitty holes I can put in it at 40 yards -- that's a hell of a lot more fun than actually calling turkeys up to a reasonable distance and killing them anyway
Has anyone bothered to read the original post closely. "The (guy) said they have been getting complaints" He does not say its a fact that there is a bad bunch of shells. Original poster also said "He seems to think there is a bad bunch of shells". Did the guy actually say that or did the O.P. assume what the guy was thinking? Either way, are they not entitled to form some opinion based on what info is available to them. Then the bashing begins!
Now there is a different post complaining or questioning of all the descrepencies in Hevi-shot? So which is it Guys? Its laughable that some of you guys sure don't have a problem forming and voicing an opinion based on the info you get.
I've been coming to this site almost daily for about three years, even though I only have 200 posts. Every day The bashing gets worse. This site is going from a really positive, helpful atmosphere to a site more like ArcheryTalk where its constant Bashing. True to the "fanboy" mentality. "what I use is great and what you use sucks!"
Just one guys Opinion,
Clint
Quote from: Ctomp1974 on March 16, 2011, 04:05:13 PM
Has anyone bothered to read the original post closely. "The (guy) said they have been getting complaints" He does not say its a fact that there is a bad bunch of shells. Original poster also said "He seems to think there is a bad bunch of shells". Did the guy actually say that or did the O.P. assume what the guy was thinking? Either way, are they not entitled to form some opinion based on what info is available to them. Then the bashing begins!
Now there is a different post complaining or questioning of all the discrepancies in Hevi-shot? So which is it Guys? Its laughable that some of you guys sure don't have a problem forming and voicing an opinion based on the info you get.
I've been coming to this site almost daily for about three years, even though I only have 200 posts. Every day The bashing gets worse. This site is going from a really positive, helpful atmosphere to a site more like ArcheryTalk where its constant Bashing. True to the "fanboy" mentality. "what I use is great and what you use sucks!"
Just one guys Opinion,
Clint
Hevi-13 has been (and still is) notorious for changing components on certain loads then calming they didn't do it....that is a FACT and has been proven by guys cutting them open and removing wads,counting pellets and weighing powder content. I read the guys first post and put up a picture of my pattern with Xtended #6's which is the load he was asking about. What's the big deal if the topic gets a little side tracked ? There are some of us who spend a fair amount of money to set up a gun with a certain load and when the company changes the load...guess what ?....you get to start all over and that ain't cool.
IF someone will send me a Hevi-13 3.5" #7 from this years lot I will cut it open and compare it to one that I have from last years lot and check for inconsistencies....I bet ya they changed the load....and if not I will make a formal apology to all the board members. There are several guy's getting real low numbers with a shell that was shooting in the 300's... What else could it be ? I'd love the hear your hypothesis.
Drum,
Thank You for making my point! This is an post about an I.C. choke pattern and phone call. When "The Guy" at I.C. dared to question the Hevi Shot loads or batch, several people implied that it was an excuse(piss poor) and so on. Even people that should know better had plenty to throw in the mix.
I agree 100% that the issue with poor patterns with an indian creek and hevi-shot more than likely lies with hevi-shot. We know that an IC is capable of putting up some great numbers with the 7's. Your patterns are a good example.
Clint
Quote from: Ctomp1974 on March 16, 2011, 06:22:29 PM
Drum,
Thank You for making my point! This is an post about an I.C. choke pattern and phone call. When "The Guy" at I.C. dared to question the Hevi Shot loads or batch, several people implied that it was an excuse(piss poor) and so on. Even people that should know better had plenty to throw in the mix.
I agree 100% that the issue with poor patterns with an indian creek and hevi-shot more than likely lies with hevi-shot. We know that an IC is capable of putting up some great numbers with the 7's. Your patterns are a good example.
Clint
Rule number 1 in business..... Never point blame or imply blame on another unless you have proof that your business or product is first not at fault. Basic business 101. My point being is that allot of people jumped the gun and still are jumping the gun without first having all the hard facts sitting in front of their face.
Well I think most of us here can agree that they have firsthand seen discrepencies on the way the Hevi-13 loads are shooting and that even goes for the exact same box and lot number for me. Heck I can't even get the dang 6's to hardly shoot worth a hoot out of both of my guns and chokes. I shot the 870 the last time I shot with the exact same box and lot of the Hevi-13 1.75oz # 6 loads that I got a whopping 209 shot total from the time before in a 10" with the 870 and the .655 Ventilator choke, and I shot it in 5 degree warmer weather and shot 1 shell and it only did 165. That's another big difference.
I AM READY TO GO TURKEY HUNTING
Quote from: bird on March 16, 2011, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: Ctomp1974 on March 16, 2011, 06:22:29 PM
Drum,
Thank You for making my point! This is an post about an I.C. choke pattern and phone call. When "The Guy" at I.C. dared to question the Hevi Shot loads or batch, several people implied that it was an excuse(piss poor) and so on. Even people that should know better had plenty to throw in the mix.
I agree 100% that the issue with poor patterns with an indian creek and hevi-shot more than likely lies with hevi-shot. We know that an IC is capable of putting up some great numbers with the 7's. Your patterns are a good example.
Clint
Rule number 1 in business..... Never point blame or imply blame on another unless you have proof that your business or product is first not at fault. Basic business 101. My point being is that allot of people jumped the gun and still are jumping the gun without first having all the hard facts sitting in front of their face.
No problem on my part....like I said....IF someone will send me a Hevi-13 3.5" #7 from this years lot I will cut it open and compare it to one that I have from last years lot and check for inconsistencies....If i'm wrong I'll GLADLY admit it....I hope that E M didn't mess with the load.
Some clarification to get things straight. I did call Indian Creek and the guy I spoke to was very nice and explained to me that they (IC) had several people calling them complaining this year about the Hevi 13 #7 load in particular not shooting consistant patterns. Since he had talked to several people with this problem he made the conclusion that it must be the ammo. Also the patterns I was getting were not what I had hoped for but still were respectable enough to kill a turkey. 200 hits in a 10 inch at 40 is better than what I was shooting before. I have to admit though it is a little frustrating to spend the money for a shell thats supposed to produce and then it doesnt (the way you want it to). Any way I have not come to any conclusion yet on whether my problem is the shells or just that my gun does not like that particular load and choke combination. I do however plan to shoot the Winchesters soon and will post my results. Thanks for all the opinions and assistance.
The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's. Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?
I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year. It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10". That's like two Lead patterns at once. Super effective. We're spoiled.
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 17, 2011, 08:46:35 AM
The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's. Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?
I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year. It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10". That's like two Lead patterns at once. Super effective. We're spoiled.
You are exactly right.. I have laughed for the past year at the folks only getting 240-275 and wanting 300.. I have been on these forums along time and not to long ago you had to actually monkey with your gun and buy multiple chokes to break 200.. Now all of a sudden 200 is not good enough..
But with this being said the constant fiddling with loads by EM is un acceptable.. This is not the first time they have displayed similar actions.. We had old white, than they came out with the Red and green loads which worked for some and the bulk it did not.. Eventually they had to go to the bronze loads with a heavier payload to equal the performance of Old White..
The Hevi 13 6s in the 20 gauge were putting up 150s from the pre 07 versions.. Now we had to go down to a mixture of 7-8s to get the same performance we were getting out of 6s 7 years ago..
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 17, 2011, 08:46:35 AM
The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's. Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?
I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year. It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10". That's like two Lead patterns at once. Super effective. We're spoiled.
:z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley:
JUST SHOOT NITRO'S
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 17, 2011, 08:46:35 AM
The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's. Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?
I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year. It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10". That's like two Lead patterns at once. Super effective. We're spoiled.
For
Traditional turkey hunting 150-170 in a ten is borderline too tight to hunt with IMO -- my SBEII went 220 in a 10 off a clean bore with Mag Blends, and I'm leaving it dirty to open it up, it is now probably averaging around 170 and thats as tight as I want it. People have gone off the deep end with this stuff - as long as you're sitting against the perfect tree with a perfect rest everythings good, but I've had to shoot outta some pretty akward positions before and a little margin for error is a good thing. A hobby with this patterning stuff is one thing, but hunting is another, I hope new folks reading this stuff realize that
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For Traditional turkey hunting 150-170 in a ten is borderline too tight to hunt with IMO -- my SBEII went 220 in a 10 off a clean bore with Mag Blends, and I'm leaving it dirty to open it up, it is now probably averaging around 170 and thats as tight as I want it. People have gone off the deep end with this stuff - as long as you're sitting against the perfect tree with a perfect rest everythings good, but I've had to shoot outta some pretty akward positions before and a little margin for error is a good thing. A hobby with this patterning stuff is one thing, but hunting is another, I hope new folks reading this stuff realize that
[/quote]
Well said!! :agreed:
Quote from: el diablo on March 17, 2011, 12:07:07 PM
I think most understand that 160-180 is plenty good for hunting. That being said I still would say that the shells that were shooting 300+ patterns were the higher performing shells. I doubt EM was getting lots of calls and emails last year complaining about the patterns being too tight. I imagine some how money is a factor and they wanted to make more so they changed something in order to do so. I am also upset because I sang the praises for these shells for being so good and recommended them to everyone who would listen. It was easy for any hunter to take his plain Jane shotgun and turn it into a 50 yard killer without testing 10 chokes and shooting a case of shells to do so. Bottom line is anytime a product drops in performance, doesn't meet expectations, and cost the same people are gonna be ticked.
:z-winnersmiley: :agreed: :agreed: :agreed: :z-winnersmiley:
Quote from: el diablo on March 17, 2011, 12:07:07 PM
I think most understand that 160-180 is plenty good for hunting. That being said I still would say that the shells that were shooting 300+ patterns were the higher performing shells. I doubt EM was getting lots of calls and emails last year complaining about the patterns being too tight. I imagine some how money is a factor and they wanted to make more so they changed something in order to do so. I am also upset because I sang the praises for these shells for being so good and recommended them to everyone who would listen. It was easy for any hunter to take his plain Jane shotgun and turn it into a 50 yard killer without testing 10 chokes and shooting a case of shells to do so. Bottom line is anytime a product drops in performance, doesn't meet expectations, and cost the same people are gonna be ticked.
you have a point and are 100% correct - Years ago I used to get rid of guns that would not shoot Winchester #4's well, now you can go buy a box of HTL, shoot to check POI and for all intents and purposes you are ready to hunt.
Like I posted last night---I think they initiated the $5 a box up to a $20 total rebate this year because they knew they messed up and tinkered with the #7 loads. They figured this would help compensate for their error instead of just admitting it. :whip2:
Quote from: SKFOOTER on March 17, 2011, 01:30:40 PM
Like I posted last night---I think they initiated the $5 a box up to a $20 total rebate this year because they knew they messed up and tinkered with the #7 loads. They figured this would help compensate for their error instead of just admitting it. :whip2:
they offered the rabate last year as well. Hopefully I will have pattern results Saturday or Sunday comparing the new shells vs last years
Sounds like to me that a bunch of ya need your turkey season to begin. A little cabin fever is starting to get to some of ya.
Quote from: bird on March 17, 2011, 01:54:28 PM
Sounds like to me that a bunch of ya need your turkey season to begin. A little cabin fever is starting to get to some of ya.
Al, you have no idea. I see dead turkeys!
I got a new box of 3 1/2 - 2 1/4 - 7s from cabelas and a new choke from I.C. 284. I'm a happy camper. Maybe if I did that last year I'd be in the 300 club. Too much other crap to worry about.
all i know is that i have several box's of H13 #6's that throw a mean pattern. a vest full of some sweet sounding calls. some of the best private land to hunt and everyday of the season to hunt it. so i'm ready to bust some heads
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 18, 2011, 07:37:09 AM
all i know is that i have several box's of H13 #6's that throw a mean pattern. a vest full of some sweet sounding calls. some of the best private land to hunt and everyday of the season to hunt it. so i'm ready to bust some heads
:lol: cruel :happy0064:
Quote from: S.C.C on March 18, 2011, 08:05:02 AM
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 18, 2011, 07:37:09 AM
all i know is that i have several box's of H13 #6's that throw a mean pattern. a vest full of some sweet sounding calls. some of the best private land to hunt and everyday of the season to hunt it. so i'm ready to bust some heads
:lol: cruel :happy0064:
:TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 18, 2011, 07:37:09 AM
all i know is that i have several box's of H13 #6's that throw a mean pattern. a vest full of some sweet sounding calls. some of the best private land to hunt and everyday of the season to hunt it. so i'm ready to bust some heads
you are a terrible man :lol: just kidding i wish all the best in busting some heads brother, im right there with ya im ready to kill something with my hevi 13's :you_rock:
Quote from: longspur on March 18, 2011, 03:02:15 AM
I got a new box of 3 1/2 - 2 1/4 - 7s from cabelas and a new choke from I.C. 284. I'm a happy camper. Maybe if I did that last year I'd be in the 300 club. Too much other crap to worry about.
What's the lot # on the shell box??
300488 - I only shot two and there was about a 20 count difference which is normal for my gun after cleaning. I know thats not enough to confirm consistancy. I may shoot another before season opens. If I do get a consistant # it still won't tell me what last years shells would do. I don't think its gona make any difference, they already told somebody they were full of crap (so to speak)
Those are the newer shells that most of us are having patterning problems with. What gun and choke are you shooting them thru?
835 - IC .675 I need to shoot some more I guess but dang $5 a pop.
i shoot a ic choke. with my mossy 835 i shot hevi 3" 6 shot got 165 hits at 40 yds. shot 3" hevi 7 shot got 179 hits at 40yds. enough to kill a turkey .nice an even patterns from both . i shot the winchester also. they do great patterns at 25 yds but after that they fall apart. had horrible patterns at 40 yds with them. now they were the ones from walmart though. i didnt get the winchester xtnd ones yet. i also have my barrel deep cleaned an polished. i never shot any 3 1/2 " shells as of yet.