All the info that I see is that this new load from winchester is pretty unique and shoots very tight , I have seen more people say they are scared to shoot such a tight pattern that
they might not even want to hunt with it, so I was wondering if anyone has shoot it thru a regular full choke ? Just to see maybe if the load is sensitive to chokes and maybe
patttern might not be so scarey tight and maybe very enhanced pattern density with few or no
holes.
I would do it myself but I cant seem to find anybody who has some for sale.
I will watch your thread closely because I won't hunt with Longbeards due to how tight the pattern is. I have a bunch of boxes of supreme HV #5, have been hunting with them for many years, I hold my range to about 40 yards, If I ever run out of supreme, I am planning on getting a larger size choke for the longbeards. I shoot .665, If I had a larger choke I would have given it a try, but I didn't want to buy another choke right now. I couldn't begin to guess as to how much larger I would have to go.
This is the same situation I am having.I was using a .655 so you can imagine how tight that was.I have a .670 for a MP-153 Baikal that i've never used for turkeys(always used the 870s).Would be interesting to see how the LBs do in more open chokes.
when I tested them in my 835 as I went more open with choke so did pattern shooting #5's
As tight as mine shot using a .665 I would think a .670 or .675 maybe even more, would be a little better choice, If I were to flinch at 40 yards the way my .665 shot, I would miss the turkey.
When I have time I'm planning to shoot mine with my factory choke for my 835. It was too tight to hunt with when I took a few shots at 35 yards to see what it did. I shot it through my IC .675 3" 5s..
to tight to hunt with :TooFunny: you boys need a scope or nerve medicine :funnyturkey:
have a scope and still will not hunt with them !
Quote from: knightrider on March 19, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
to tight to hunt with :TooFunny: you boys need a scope or nerve medicine :funnyturkey:
If the nerve machine existed, I'd be the first to order.
My thirteen year old smooth missed one at 20 steps Saturday yea they shoot tight.. :OGturkeyhead:
The way the shot is protected, it seems like a real breakthru in design. This could take
out a lot of the variability in shot dispersment within a pattern. One could virtually dial in
how tight or open they wanted the pattern by using different chokes.
Some people , however do not fret over how tight a pattern is and they have confidence to shoot close in. I am not one of those people and I would rather have a more open pattern shooting inside 40 yrds. Turkeys move around alot .
I am not one of those people and I would rather have a more open pattern shooting inside 40 yrds. Turkeys move around alot .
This is why I opted not to use the LB's this year.If they come out with a 20 gauge load next year and they shoot tight,i'm gonna go thru chokes until i can find one that gives me what I want.The shells do shoot/pattern well,but i'll stick with the thugs and win hv in my 12 for now.
I've got two boxes of longbeards #6 shot. Sounds like the ventalator choke is two tight and the .665 super full rem. also. I've got a extra full rem. I think they measure about .687. Does anybody think the extra full rem. in a 28" 870 with #6 longbeard might be a good choice for 40 and 20 yds? Many thanks, cluck
Only one sure way to find out................. :z-guntootsmiley:
I shot them at 20yds I didn't think they were much tighter than anything else at that range
I shoot an 870 with a Remington Ventilator choke and was going to try out this load, but after seeing this I think I will stick with the Winchester Supreme or Remington Nitro loads.
I saw a shot from a 3" #5 in a Stoeger with a factory full and the pattern was noticeably wider at 37 yards but still very suitable for hunting.
In my BPS using a 655 at 37 yds it was doing 242 in the 10, about three times more than needed so I am probably going to go with an extra full or 575 at least for woods hunting.
QuoteI have a bunch of boxes of supreme HV #5
I like those too, for what it's worth. I believe in that load.
I normally use a .665 choke for Lead and HTL.
I would try a .675 choke with the Longbeards and see how it does.
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd519/darn2ten/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/darn2ten/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd519/darn2ten/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-03/734F654B-642E-4F8F-92C9-10932F4FA730.jpg) (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/darn2ten/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-03/734F654B-642E-4F8F-92C9-10932F4FA730.jpg.html) This is the same 26" barreled gun. First pattern is with a IC .665 and is very tight. I have shot this combo at the pattern board twice, got 203 the first shot and 188 the second time. The second pic is a Kick's .680 and shot a 118. Both with LB 3-1 3/4-5 out of the same box. I also shot it with this gun through a SSX and got 163 in the 10". All you got to do is experiment a little and I think you can get what your after with this load.
What kind of patterns did you get up close?(20 yards)
there a second choice shell for me i personaly shot better patterns with the winchester high velocities but with that bieng said these shells are selling like wildfire here one of the local gun shops is actually selling higher dollar shells cheaper to make room for more long beards
Quote from: jakesdad on March 24, 2014, 07:09:21 PM
What kind of patterns did you get up close?(20 yards)
I've posted a pick at 20 with the IC, It was about 7-8" wide with a very dense core. The SSX wasn't really noticeably different than the IC at 20. I didn't shoot the kick's at 20, I imagine it would probably open up a little to a full 8 to 10" pattern.
I thought I would try the longbeards this year and they are now my shell of choice. An excellent pattern at 40 with my 665 jellyhead, as far as being too tight up close to me they aren't all that much tighter than any of the others I shot when patterning. I shot a bird at 15 yds. the other day as he was walking so I had enough spread to hit him shooting open sights. IMO they are a great shell for the money, well worth trying.
They shoot 1"-2" tighter for me at 20 yards and in than the HV, but that is nothing. If you want a wider pattern, then you will be sacrificing your distance past 40. If all you are doing is shooting to 40 and want a more open pattern, save some money by buying turkey thugs, winchester super x and HV(xx), and Remington Nitro Turkey. Heck, any turkey shell can usually give you an acceptable pattern to 40. Winchester Super X is only more expensive than the Remington and it will thump them all day to 40. In all honesty, it is probably a better choice than the HV up to 40. Out of most guns, super x is as good to kill up to possibly 45, thugs and HV up to possibly 47-50, and Longbeard holding the tightest out past this. Not saying you should shoot that, but that has been my experience and many others on paper. No need whatsoever to buy a box of shells over $12.00 when you aren't shooting past 40 yards (even out to 45).
I have been shooting the LB's out of .655,.660 kicks. The patterns are super tight from 20-40. I have experimenting shooting off a rest at 20-30 yds and it is very easy to get off target. Not to mention shooting free hand after sitting dead still for 2 hours. I am re thinking my patterns with them after missing a turkey at 30yds the other day. It was a gimme shot and I snatched on the trigger sitting in an akward position. Gonna try the LB's out of my Browning Citori factory full/mod and see what the do. Where I have been hunting allot of the shots are 15-25 yds. My Win HV 5's are looking really good right now.
It seems strange to hear people not wanting to shoot LB because it shoots too tight. For years everyone has been chasing the magic turkey choke that tightens up patterns!
I'm shooting LB through a Stoeger 3500 and Carlson Coyote choke. There is no doubt the pattern is much better than my old load/choke combo. It also does really well in my SBE and Briley choke.
Switched my Rem870 from Kicks .655 to Hastings .665( non ported)
Kicks .655 214 in a 10 @ 40 yds
Hastings .665 184 in a 10 @ 40yds
-I now have a larger pattern @ 30yds which most of the turkeys I kill are 30-35yds. I noticed with the kicks that my patterns were about 8" at 20-25 yds and not much more open at 30yds. Shooting off of a rest it was easy to be off on a turkey target at 30 yds. Free hand you can imagine how easy it is to miss. I missed a gimme shot at 30 yds the other day with a 214 @ 40 pattern. Looks great on paper but in the woods I need a little more wiggle room. Turkey walking fast at 30 going down in a creek is not as easy a shot as one would think with an 8" pattern free handed. Looking forward to hunting with the pattern I have now. Great pattern in close and certainly more shot in the 10 @ 40 than any other previous lead load I have shot.
:turkey2:
Posted some 3x4 patterns thru a Wrights .670 / Old School 11-87 yesterday. Gonna hunt with fours for the first time in a LONG TIME this year...
While I understand wanted a more open pattern then some guns shoot longbeards why not just shoot cheaper ammo?
Quote from: MuddyRiver on April 11, 2014, 01:12:29 PM
It seems strange to hear people not wanting to shoot LB because it shoots too tight. For years everyone has been chasing the magic turkey choke that tightens up patterns!
I'm shooting LB through a Stoeger 3500 and Carlson Coyote choke. There is no doubt the pattern is much better than my old load/choke combo. It also does really well in my SBE and Briley choke.
It's all about what you want but the info is great...most all of us are looking for both. I want max pellets in 10" without giving up coverage out to 15. I agree that the LongBeards I've shot, especially the #4 are too tight for me to hunt with. It puts nearly 170 in 10" with #4's and leaves almost nothing outside 10"...it's more about pellet count. The #5's put 170-200 but also has enough to get good coverage out to 12-15", that load I would hunt with. I could care less about how tight the 10 yard pattern is...cause at that range I can aim accurately. If a turkey was only 5 steps away, no matter what load/choke, you gotta be perfect to kill em or just shoot em through the wings it would be like a rifle. If our average turkey kill was really 15 yards this forum wouldn't exist cause we could shoot em with Skeet chokes and 2 3/4 1oz loads of #8 shot :-) :z-guntootsmiley:
I patterned my 935 with ssx choke with the 3.5in #6's from 20-50 yards and yes it was tight but I added the truglo magnum gobble dot rifled sights and she shoots straight. Straight enough I filled both tags. My 2nd being at 8 steps and it wasn't too tight for him :newmascot:
I shot them at 20 out of my Rem 887 with a ssx. They were 3 1/2 in #6's. The wad blew right through the target and my pattern was the size of a golf ball!! St 30 the wad bounced off the target and the pattern was the the size of a baseball. At 40 I got 261 pellets in the 10 in. circle. I am going to try and get out and pattern them out of my win. sxp with the invector+ full this week and I will let you know the results.
Quote from: BigAL64 on April 14, 2014, 10:22:04 AM
I shot them at 20 out of my Rem 887 with a ssx. They were 3 1/2 in #6's. The wad blew right through the target and my pattern was the size of a golf ball!! St 30 the wad bounced off the target and the pattern was the the size of a baseball. At 40 I got 261 pellets in the 10 in. circle. I am going to try and get out and pattern them out of my win. sxp with the invector+ full this week and I will let you know the results.
BigAL64, curious to hear your results with the Win SXP; I shot 'em thru mine w/a Primos Tight Wad choke tube, and they shot high & to the right -- barely on the target. Let me know what you find; I didn't go back out & shoot 'em thru the factory choke tube.
Most every shell will have different point if impacts from other shells. With today's technology and these tight chokes you really need some aftermarket sighting system. I see way too many people on here judge a shell poorly because it don't hit where they aim. Buy tight shooting shells and chokes and your gonna have these problems. I'd like to know how many turkeys are killed with a 1/4 of the pattern even hitting close because the hunters don't even know!
I shot the LB 3.5" #5 out of a Invector Plus Sumtoy .675 today it was only 43 degrees but still put up 164 in the 10" and another 106 in the 10-20" ring. That's what I've wanted with the LB's was not more 10" numbers but better 20" numbers. Shooting them out of a Truglo .643 SSX and my Rob Roberts .660 it was so tight there was really no wiggle room at 40 yards...outside the 10" there was literally nothing but single pellets here or there...which I suppose would be great if you were trying to really reach out there but not good for hunting in the woods or on birds that like to not stand perfectly still. Those tighter chokes shot as good as 197 #5's in 10" but as I said really missing any coverage 10-20"
Sat. I shot LB 3" 6's out of a 28" BPS with a Patternmaster code black goose. It shot 105 in the 10 at 40yds. The Winchester 1 7/8 red shells also shot about 105 but had better coverage outside the 10". A .668 star dot gave 150's with the LB's and 120's with the reds in that gun. I like the pattern of the red shells with the Patternmaster as I don't shoot 40 yds..
sounds like the StarDot likes the LongBeards 150's in 10 is good was there still decent 20" coverage?
Yes, good coverage outside the ten, but like many others reported, impact was way high.
Something I notice with LB's when I try to open the patterns up is the pattern has tight areas with quite a few gaps. These shells are just made to run tight. Best bet seems to be run a scope or red dot with the tight patterns. Another concern I have is I have shot several LB's that the pattern looked like the top half of it was cut off, all the shot in the bottom half. Don't know the explanation for this but I have read that someone else had these results as well. I'm shooting my HV 3" 5's/ 110 @ 40. (Old school) 20-35yd patterns with this set up are best for the terrain I am hunting. 4 of the gobblers I have killed in the last couple of years have been inside 20yds. Shot a couple at 35-38 with Pb 6's.
Well, I just returned from a trip to Western Oklahoma a few hours ago. Filled my tags with longbeards. One of the three birds dropped dead. I got to chase down the other two after emptying my gun on them. I'm more athletic that I thought. I killed one this morning at about 10 yards, but missed the first, hit the second...wounded and then I had to run him down.
The one I had to chase down a few days ago...I don't know what happened. Had him at about 35 yards and missed the first shot. Wounded the second. I've been hunting turkeys for several years now and I can't say I've ever had it happen, let alone two times in three days. It was WILD!
Needless to say, my confidence in the longbeards (and/or myself) is shaken. I have until next April to figure out what my problem is! They patterned pretty well for me, so I must have pulled the shot. The one this morning was just too close, but I had no place to get where I could see him coming. Oh well, I'll definitely remember this weekend.
I was shooting 3" # 5's.
Thinking maybe I should go back to the old school HV 5's or Thug 5's. Having a load that's great for 40 yards doesn't make sense to me after this weekend when I couldn't hit them closer than that.
akp - first of all, congrats!! I agree with your comments about a) confidence shaken and b) going back to old school HV 5's & retaining a good 40 yds & in pattern. That's exactly why I'm not going to be a LB user; the pattern is simply too tight (w/out a scope on your gun) and it's easy to miss/wound when they're up close. My brother shot my remaining LB's -- after he missed a bird @ 52 steps -- and took them off my hands. I told him, "Good luck, bud!" :)
Interesting enough, I picked up some Nitro's very cheap, and I'm loving the patterns I'm getting w/them, as well as penetration (it was blowing holes thru heavy gauge tin @ 40 yards), so I'm going to do a blended shell 1st, and back that up with a Nitro next season.
I use a remington superfull lead only thats .665
I patterned 3" #4 yester day and at 40yrds had 105 and at 20 more then I wanted to count. But what I liked was the nice even pattern I got at 40 and at 20yrds nice pattern that fills a 15" circle.
It was not the dreaded slug hole I was concerned about.
With the 6's I got tighter patterns overall at both distances and the 20yrd pattern had most the pattern filling in the 10" circle.
I am going to be using the 4's. I like the bigger shot and the patterns to 40 is exactly what I am looking for.
Wouldnt happen to have any pics would ya? Id like to see those.Be definetely worth considering going to the 4's in the LB if I could get patterns like you describe.Best of both worlds there;lots of punch and good pattern density without being golfball tight at closer ranges.
Quote from: akp on April 27, 2014, 04:06:59 PM
Well, I just returned from a trip to Western Oklahoma a few hours ago. Filled my tags with longbeards. One of the three birds dropped dead. I got to chase down the other two after emptying my gun on them. I'm more athletic that I thought. I killed one this morning at about 10 yards, but missed the first, hit the second...wounded and then I had to run him down.
The one I had to chase down a few days ago...I don't know what happened. Had him at about 35 yards and missed the first shot. Wounded the second. I've been hunting turkeys for several years now and I can't say I've ever had it happen, let alone two times in three days. It was WILD!
Needless to say, my confidence in the longbeards (and/or myself) is shaken. I have until next April to figure out what my problem is! They patterned pretty well for me, so I must have pulled the shot. The one this morning was just too close, but I had no place to get where I could see him coming. Oh well, I'll definitely remember this weekend.
I was shooting 3" # 5's.
Thinking maybe I should go back to the old school HV 5's or Thug 5's. Having a load that's great for 40 yards doesn't make sense to me after this weekend when I couldn't hit them closer than that.
Those were my exact words after missing a turkey at 30 yds this year with the LB 5's..I don't know what happened..gimme shot with tru glo sights.. Went back to HV 5's and 6's that I have total confidence in and room for error when the turkey gets in close and Is moving. Hammered a turkey at 30 yds Friday with my old set up. Gonna test the LB's through a PG .670 and Kicks .670 and my Beretta Urika and see what it looks like. Not sold on LB's yet for hunting. Super tight patterns but have seen some strange results.
That was my problem this morning. I spotted that bird across and down a fence line early. Of course, I called to see if he was interested. He was and I had to scramble to find a spot. Typical Western Oklahoma. I had no tree. I had to kneel about 5 yards from the fence and had one shot straight in front of me as he passed. I couldn't see him coming and wasn't sure. Sure enough, there was the blue head at 10 yards. Too close, but all I had. I shot a couple of birds with my old Win HV 5's very close. Those longbeards are great at 40. Now I think I'll stress worrying about whether or not I'm on him enough if he's inside that. I've only killed a bird or two in my life that was that far out so I'm not sure why I got all caught up in this extended range stuff...
I'm using a Sumtoy .665. I also tried the Longbeard 5's in a Remington Super Full and Extra Full. It did open up with the Extra Full (.687-I think). Of course, if you're wanting it to open up, why not just use another lead load?
I will post them up tonight around 9pm central time. I forgot to do it last night.
I was surprised of the different between the shot size.
The splatter targets are the 4shot.
The paper bulls eye are 6's
20 and 40yrds measured. I feel the pattern is large enough for me at both 20 and out to 40 for me. Better then past lead loads I have shot.
18yd 3in/6s Mossberg 835 24in ported pipe with ported .695 truglo gobble stopper extreme choke..
Swyped while swerving via mobile device
Quote from: MuddyRiver on April 11, 2014, 01:12:29 PM
It seems strange to hear people not wanting to shoot LB because it shoots too tight. For years everyone has been chasing the magic turkey choke that tightens up patterns!
That's what I was thinking. :icon_thumright:
While I agree tight can be overly tight, I also have a hard time blaming this load and shot pattern for a miss.
If a bird closes with in 30yrds I have no excuse but myself, even if its a 4" pattern. :z-twocents:
To me LB #4 are the ticket, the pattern is tight enough out to 40yrds using a hefty #4 in 3". I can use a stock 870 with a "cheap" remington extended choke. To me this is a great value compared to small shot HTL and the high $ chokes.
No I did not, I mentioned if I cannot kill a bird at that range with a 4" projectile from a sighted in gun then its me not the gun/choke/load. And its not the combo I am shooting but how I am shooting, if I need a 20-25" pattern at any reasonable turkey range then its not poor equipment it poor marksmanship.
Bow to gun is not much of a comparison ???
I don't shoot flying turkeys so I don't follow your skeet analogy either. To me turkey hunting is like large game and I pick my spot, aim small, wait for an angle and follow through. I believe I would be just as successful at 40yrds and under using a .22
And Pb loads 40yrd + and wounded birds go hand in hand. I will take an unscathed close miss over wounded and rotten game.
If you want 40's your going to have tight 20's. Its a shooting cone from a 3/4" barrel.
We all need to pick a combo that suits are ability and conditions. From my pics above the LB work great at a huge cost savings. I have a nice 20yrd pattern I can kill all day with that gives a nice margin of error and dense enough at 40 to get the job done with confidence.
I will be trying 3" 4's and 5's in an Invector+ and Remchoke set up with regular full chokes in each. 90% of my turkey hunting is done in the timber so a full choke is plenty tight even for a 40 yard shot. No need for anything tighter at those ranges.
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on May 13, 2014, 12:27:45 PM
While I agree tight can be overly tight, I also have a hard time blaming this load and shot pattern for a miss.
If a bird closes with in 30yrds I have no excuse but myself, even if its a 4" pattern. :z-twocents:
To me LB #4 are the ticket, the pattern is tight enough out to 40yrds using a hefty #4 in 3". I can use a stock 870 with a "cheap" remington extended choke. To me this is a great value compared to small shot HTL and the high $ chokes.
Great post, I agree totally. I've been super impressed with the 3" #4 LBs in my BPS this season through a Hastings choke.