http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Dot-Choke-Tube-12-Gauge-Shotgun-Extra-Full-Turkey-Hunting-Mossberg-835-/281281189985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417daa5861#ht_48wt_1105
Again I will state it here for all to see. This is not an original Star Dot .676 choke that was made by Colonial Arms that had the knurled end at the top of the choke tube. Any straight grooved Star Dot choke is not an original Star Dot choke and is in fact fake. Please know this so you don't end up like this bidder buying a fake or be mislead by a seller who tries to sell you one like this guy.
Brad
And I'll also state that choke has changed packages or at least cardboard inserts. That back of package on the cardboard if it were in fact labeled correctly for it being a fake should have PTC TEchnologies under where you see Highlander Sports. The original Star Dot knurled at the top Colonial Arms chokes did not have PTC Technologies on the package. So don't be mislead by the packaging. Just look at the top of the choke to see whether knurled and real, or grooved and fake.
What is the difference in the pattern between the two?
Quote from: davisd9 on March 11, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
What is the difference in the pattern between the two?
David,
I have been told that the fake one I gave a guy I worked with using one of my 300325 #7's did 290 in a 9" circle at 40yds. Now that's all I know. That is pure speculation going off of what he told me. But I would say the guy is very smart and pretty dang acccurate at what he said.
My point in posting this here is false advertising. When somebody pays good money and thinks they are getting an oringal, that is what they should in fact get.
I agree with that if it says original then it should be original. When it all comes down to it numbers are what matters to most people, not original or 2nd run. If it is false advertisement then I would not buy it on principle. Was just curious what the difference was in patterning.
Mine must not be original either cause it looks just like that. I got it new in package and was purchased from Walmart. Will have to look at the packaging to see what it shows at the bottom and back. I know for certain that the packaging or cardboard that mine came with is from the store and not changed. Will post it this evening.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That could very well be. But you can bet the folks at Highlander Sports put these fake Straight groove Star Dots into the original cardboard packge if it don't say PTC Technologies on the back and it is in fact a straight grooved PTC choke.
10 4. Whether it is "original" or not I paid $20-25 for mine new and she shoots like a dream! Will post the pictures after 4 pm. Thanks!
Well I sent the guy several messages on ebay telling him the true facts about his choke. He still tries to tell me he got it from Walmart which I know is another lie. It clearly states Shep's Sports World on the sticker. Walmart sold the original Star Dot Colonial Arms chokes as new at $19.97 nationwide at the time. They never sold these fakes either.
Wal-Mart did in fact sell the straight groove chokes in the 90s. That is where I bought my first one. Its a fake as you call it and it shoots great. Fake as it was it was still sold under the Star Dot name and marketed nationally.
The one on ebay you showed is a Preston Pittman it has writing on the choke itself.
Quote from: FloppinTom on March 11, 2014, 09:02:02 PM
Wal-Mart did in fact sell the straight groove chokes in the 90s. That is where I bought my first one. Its a fake as you call it and it shoots great. Fake as it was it was still sold under the Star Dot name and marketed nationally.
The one on ebay you showed is a Preston Pittman it has writing on the choke itself.
Tom,
They didn't start making the fakes until about 2000 or so. Highlander Sports went out of business in 2003 I believe. I'm pretty sure Walmart had pretty much quit selling Star Dots by 2000. All the ones that I have ever seen here had knurling. But a few may of hit some Walmarts.
I really dont think you should classify them as "fakes" they were both sold under the Star Dot heading and from the packaging registered under trademark. I have the both and and front and back photos of packaging. Heck even the packaging bar code is the same. You say they are fake because Colonial Arms didnt make them. They were never labeled or sold under any Colonial Arms branding. I just dont see how legally you could sell a trademark choke, with retail packaging and in a national market and be selling so called fakes. One was sold by PCT and one was sold by Highlander Sports both under the Star Dot trade mark so who is the fake?
LOL The real fakes have knurled ends and the authentic PTC Walmart sold Star Dots have straight grooves and pattern great.
I guess fake is in the eye of the beholder. :popcorn:
Should we call 60 minutes? This is an outrage. I am glad Hevi is on it. I am going to check CNN in the morning to see what the latest is.
I bought a Star Dot choke for my Mossberg 835 about 2001 from Wal-Mart and it looked just like the one pictured. It had the straight grooves not knurling. I think it was about $20 at the time. I have since sold the gun and the choke. At the time I had no idea these chokes would have such a cult following.
Dag um, I forgot about this. Will try to do it this evening when I get home. My Star Dot was purchased in either 98 or 99, I believe, from Walmart.
what is done to the original that makes it shoot better... naked eye its the same rather than the knurling...?
I also purchased two star dots from Walmart in the late 90's, one for a 835 and the other was a regular Invector choke. I purchased these brand new in the box myself and both had the straight grooves on the end.
ILIKEHEVI-13,
I think you owe the gentleman selling the Star Dot chokes an apology. The Star Dot choke tubes which is is selling are not "fakes" as you claim. I've got several of the old Highlander Sports, Inc, catalogs. Star Dot was a licensed trademark and one of the Highlander Sports catalogs, which was intended for the wholesale trade, shows the packaging and tubes w/ the parallel grooves which you claim are "fakes". The Colonial Mfg. tubes are shown in a retail catalog initially as Preston Pittman Shotgun Choke Tubes and it wasn't called a Star Dot Choke tube until a subsequent retail catalog after a sucessful tie-in with the Star Dot sights sold by Highland Sports. I've shot both the Preston Pittman Knurled end tube and the Star Dot tube w/ the parallel end grooves and could discern no difference in the patterning ability of either great tube. I assume that the internal construction/constriction were the same, but perhaps, made by different companies.
My packaging:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/13/te4y7edu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/13/ede6e7u7.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: FloppinTom on March 11, 2014, 10:34:08 PM
I really dont think you should classify them as "fakes" they were both sold under the Star Dot heading and from the packaging registered under trademark. I have the both and and front and back photos of packaging. Heck even the packaging bar code is the same. You say they are fake because Colonial Arms didnt make them. They were never labeled or sold under any Colonial Arms branding. I just dont see how legally you could sell a trademark choke, with retail packaging and in a national market and be selling so called fakes. One was sold by PCT and one was sold by Highlander Sports both under the Star Dot trade mark so who is the fake?
LOL The real fakes have knurled ends and the authentic PTC Walmart sold Star Dots have straight grooves and pattern great.
I guess fake is in the eye of the beholder. :popcorn:
Tom,
What do you call something that you yourself made and it worked better than great and someone else copies your design and markets it without your permission?
Quote from: decoykrvr on March 12, 2014, 09:31:14 PM
ILIKEHEVI-13,
I think you owe the gentleman selling the Star Dot chokes an apology. The Star Dot choke tubes which is is selling are not "fakes" as you claim. I've got several of the old Highlander Sports, Inc, catalogs. Star Dot was a licensed trademark and one of the Highlander Sports catalogs, which was intended for the wholesale trade, shows the packaging and tubes w/ the parallel grooves which you claim are "fakes". The Colonial Mfg. tubes are shown in a retail catalog initially as Preston Pittman Shotgun Choke Tubes and it wasn't called a Star Dot Choke tube until a subsequent retail catalog after a sucessful tie-in with the Star Dot sights sold by Highland Sports. I've shot both the Preston Pittman Knurled end tube and the Star Dot tube w/ the parallel end grooves and could discern no difference in the patterning ability of either great tube. I assume that the internal construction/constriction were the same, but perhaps, made by different companies.
Nope.
I suggest you call and talk to Betty McDonald, the owner of Colonial Arms and see how she feels about all of this stealing of their choke tube design. That's the exact word she used to. Highlander stole their choke design.
Ok guys some of the PTC Star Dots may have hit some of the Walmart stores. But the majority of the chokes that Walmart sold were in fact knurled. All of the ones I seen here at the local Walmarts in my area were all knurled.
To prove my point, why do you think sheltonsclothing on ebay has so dang many of the fake ones. Walmart done pretty much closed them out before most of the PTC chokes were in fact made.
I have a question, these chokes shoot great no doubt about that, and I understand colonial arms say their new chokes are the same as the old star dot, why aren't they shooting as well? It seems if they were actually the same and performed the same they would be selling them faster than they could produce them.
Quote from: Dirt nap on March 12, 2014, 07:28:03 AM
what is done to the original that makes it shoot better... naked eye its the same rather than the knurling...?
can someone answer this...im starting to think there is no shooting difference between the two some people are just making this choke to be gold to drive price up I have both and neither one shoot as good as my pure gold or ic I cant figure this out
Quote from: Deputy 14 on March 13, 2014, 12:15:57 AM
I have a question, these chokes shoot great no doubt about that, and I understand colonial arms say their new chokes are the same as the old star dot, why aren't they shooting as well? It seems if they were actually the same and performed the same they would be selling them faster than they could produce them.
It is very interesting that no one has really posted results of it. It keeps being said that it is the "orginial" Star Dot but why has it not been shot and reported on. If it has then I must have missed it, but one would think that it would create the same hype that the Star Dot created.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Dot-Choke-Tube-12-Gauge-Shotgun-Extra-Full-Browning-Invector-Plus-SD913XF-/231162937539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d26280c3
How bout this one?
Based on who has it listed........my guess would be fake
Craftsman wrenches are not made by Sears. If a new company wins the next contract bid, will the Craftsman wrenches they produce be fakes? Just playing devil's advocate here.
Both were labeled, marketed, and sold as Star Dot choke tubes. So far, no proof has surfaced that there is any difference, other than the knurling vs straight grooves on the exterior. Someone with the proper tools needs to analyze both types in great detail and prove this out.
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 13, 2014, 08:09:05 PM
Craftsman wrenches are not made by Sears. If a new company wins the next contract bid, will the Craftsman wrenches they produce be fakes? Just playing devil's advocate here.
Both were labeled, marketed, and sold as Star Dot choke tubes. So far, no proof has surfaced that there is any difference, other than the knurling vs straight grooves on the exterior. Someone with the proper tools needs to analyze both types in great detail and prove this out.
Your missing the point I am trying to make. I'm saying you have a choke that you made yourself. One of your clients you make these chokes for that they are selling under a different name stops paying you. Then you stop making chokes for them which you have no choice to do unless you are in fact not all there. Then they take it upon themself to have another company copy your chokes you made for them and then continue to sell your chokes like nothing bothers them to the least and they could care less if it was your choke tube design or not. Now you tell me how you would like that? I guess your client has the right to do so is what some of these folks are trying to say. You guys that don't get that, I feel for ya.
In their contract they should have clearly stated that they owned the rights to the design. If they didn't, then their customer entered into a contract with another machining company, without fear of retribution. The new company probably beat the old company's price, without a significant change in the design. the switch to the straight lines was just an attempt to not build an exact copy, though it was only a cosmetic change.
Where is the praise for the patterns from the new models? They should have been proven good by now.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 13, 2014, 10:48:49 PM
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 13, 2014, 08:09:05 PM
Craftsman wrenches are not made by Sears. If a new company wins the next contract bid, will the Craftsman wrenches they produce be fakes? Just playing devil's advocate here.
Both were labeled, marketed, and sold as Star Dot choke tubes. So far, no proof has surfaced that there is any difference, other than the knurling vs straight grooves on the exterior. Someone with the proper tools needs to analyze both types in great detail and prove this out.
Your missing the point I am trying to make. I'm saying you have a choke that you made yourself. One of your clients you make these chokes for that they are selling under a different name stops paying you. Then you stop making chokes for them which you have no choice to do unless you are in fact not all there. Then they take it upon themself to have another company copy your chokes you made for them and then continue to sell your chokes like nothing bothers them to the least and they could care less if it was your choke tube design or not. Now you tell me how you would like that? I guess your client has the right to do so is what some of these folks are trying to say. You guys that don't get that, I feel for ya.
What I think a bunch of people are saying is, what does it matter? Both chokes are the same except for the straight or knurled end. I've seen one of the straight grooved ones go in the 320's with 3.5" #7 Hevi. Both choke designs were made around the same time and have not been in production in over 10 years. Most people just want one of those Star Dots that are the holy grail of 835's wether there straight or knurled as long as they shoot the same, and to my knowledge they do. I don't think most folks care about a dispute between two companies. Both choke designs were marketed as Star Dots have long been discontinued and pattern the same. I think that's all that matters to most.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 13, 2014, 10:48:49 PM
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on March 13, 2014, 08:09:05 PM
Craftsman wrenches are not made by Sears. If a new company wins the next contract bid, will the Craftsman wrenches they produce be fakes? Just playing devil's advocate here.
Both were labeled, marketed, and sold as Star Dot choke tubes. So far, no proof has surfaced that there is any difference, other than the knurling vs straight grooves on the exterior. Someone with the proper tools needs to analyze both types in great detail and prove this out.
Your missing the point I am trying to make. I'm saying you have a choke that you made yourself. One of your clients you make these chokes for that they are selling under a different name stops paying you. Then you stop making chokes for them which you have no choice to do unless you are in fact not all there. Then they take it upon themself to have another company copy your chokes you made for them and then continue to sell your chokes like nothing bothers them to the least and they could care less if it was your choke tube design or not. Now you tell me how you would like that? I guess your client has the right to do so is what some of these folks are trying to say. You guys that don't get that, I feel for ya.
what im saying is you are making people with the straight knurled choke feel like they don't have a stardot...they do they already bought it and its workin for them. every year you bring up the original star dot stuff and care what people on ebay is selling them for. if you care then why search for them. I think some people wanna sit in the lead chair thinkin you don't have this choke and you cant get one...kinda childish...I have both star dots and they are both sitting in a choke case...I don't care what choke is in my gun if its the best for that load I shoot it I don't walk around tellin everyone to look at my hard to find choke I show turkeys to be honest instead of you showing that same pattern every time the choke is brought up why don't you post a video on how well you can call or some turkey kills...lol go hunt turkeys
I see you guys points. And your probably exactly right. That's probably why Colonial Arms can't do nothing.
I, too want to know about these new Colonial Arms chokes that Betty McDonald told me should be pretty much identical to the internals on the old Star Dot chokes. Myles on here has one but has switched to shooting 20GA only. I talked to him not long ago about shooting this choke with one of his 300325 Hevi-13 3.5" load so we could learn the truth if this choke was for real. He told me he is shooting 20GA now so he just doesn't want to go shoot it since he made the switch. I myself don't want to have to just go buy one to see when I have done that a lot in the past on here. But guys, the truth is I am getting older and my job don't allow me the time I once had to do so. So I'm gonna have to pass the buck to someone else.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 13, 2014, 10:48:49 PMYour missing the point I am trying to make. I'm saying you have a choke that you made yourself. One of your clients you make these chokes for that they are selling under a different name stops paying you. Then you stop making chokes for them which you have no choice to do unless you are in fact not all there. Then they take it upon themself to have another company copy your chokes you made for them and then continue to sell your chokes like nothing bothers them to the least and they could care less if it was your choke tube design or not. Now you tell me how you would like that? I guess your client has the right to do so is what some of these folks are trying to say. You guys that don't get that, I feel for ya.
I have perused the thread, and I am confused
Who owned/owns the Star Dot name?
Did Colonial have a patent on its choke design?
Did Highland own the Star Dot name, have Colonial make the choke to which it applied its name, drop Colonial as a vendor, and then have someone else make the chokes on a contract and use its name on the subsequent choke?
Did Colonial sue them? If not, then why?
Colonial's website states that Star Dot choke tubes are available and one has to call.
Star Dot is used with a "TM," which ordinarily indicates a common law trade mark rather than a federally registered trademark. But if Colonial used it first and owns it, there can be infringement and a suit under the Lanham Act even if not federally registered.
I have a Preston Pittman Bossbuster on my 835 which I'm told is a close relative of the original Star Dot. She shoots Hevi 3.5 " 6 & 7's great as well as 3.5" Win HV 5's. I understand the point about false advertisement, which is criminal, especially when you are claiming it is an item that is trademarked. On the flip side, if the choke shoots a great pattern and kills turkeys I wouldn't complain.
Let me address the Trademark questions:
The Registered US Trademark for "Star Dot" is dead...canceled May 26 , 2007. It was filed for on April 6, 1999.
The owner of the mark was Highlander Sports of Alabama.
The Star Dot Trademark was for the "non-telescopic" firearm sight which employed colored light tubes...NOT THE CHOKE TUBE. Many of you may remember these were packaged with the Star Dot chokes in a combination pack. I believe this is why the chokes eventually became known as the "Star Dot".
In my opinion Colonial has the right to use the TM symbol which indicates they intend to register the trademark...many companies do this and never pursue the registration but it does give them some protection.
Respectfully submitted,
Mike Honcho
"TM" indicates a claim a of common law trademark, it is not about intent to register federally and no federal registration is required if used.
If one attempts to register for a certain use category knowing that another has priority for the same category, that is one of the factors for a cancellation.
When I get time, I am going to look at the USPTO file.
I bought 2 star-dot chokes from Wal-mart in the late 90's on the same day, 1 for an 835, and the other for a Browning invector. The one for the Invector was straight grooves on the end and the one for the 835 was knurled.
Bought from our local Wal-mart in NC
Both had same packaging, both 20$, and both shoot awesome.
Well I think I should put my Star Dot on ebay since this one is going for US $127.50 +$4.99 shipping with 12 min left. I am going to have to think on it at that price.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 14, 2014, 08:14:13 PM
Well I think I should put my Star Dot on ebay since this one is going for US $127.50 +$4.99 shipping with 12 min left. I am going to have to think on it at that price.
I'll go get mine outta my dads 835 and the invector outta the filing cabinet and give them a 2 for 1 deal at that kinda price!
But I never have any luck with selling on ebay, I need a young model to hold the choke for me so everyone will look at it. lol
The best way to get good money off ebay is to have the choke in the original package.
I'll show you mine.
It would bring top dollar if I show my pattern I shot with it.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/547/medium/100_0914_Medium_.JPG)
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 15, 2014, 01:11:42 AM
The best way to get good money off ebay is to have the choke in the original package.
I'll show you mine.
It would bring top dollar if I show my pattern I shot with it.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/547/medium/100_0914_Medium_.JPG)
Thats a thought. To be honest, I think my dad don't need as tight of a pattern as he shoots in that 835. Back before I got on this forum years ago setting his 835 up, I set him up with win 3.5 2.25 #6 supremes and put an 8" circle traced from a duct take-off on a piece of cardboard and got an average of around 170 in the 8" circle @ 40yds. He missed a turkey a few years after that with me @ 15yds, we went home and set up a target at the same distance and it looked like you shot it nearly point blank, like the size of a golf ball tight.
He is getting older and every year his diabetes has taken a huge toll on his eyesight. I know it's tough for him because up until he was in his 50's he could practically count the toes on a gnat and now he has to bi focal everthing.
Thanks for the suggestion, I may indeed take some pictures of our pattern board, put his choke in the package, and list it on Ebay.
BTW, are people as crazy about the invector star dot? I would make someones head spin with a deal on it, just sitting in my cabinet.
I know the Invector Star Dot chokes will shoot. I have seen the patterns. But you can buy them off ebay for $20 shipped.
:deadhorse: :TrainWreck1:
Yeah, but those ones on ebay for 20 bucks are fakes, they have straight knurling. :icon_thumright:
Quote from: Borden811 on March 16, 2014, 09:25:16 AM
Yeah, but those ones on ebay for 20 bucks are fakes, they have straight knurling. :icon_thumright:
Guess I bought me a fake one in the original package from Wal'mart then. I bought the invector and the 835 on the same day in the late 90's and the invector has straight grooves, and the 835 has checkered knurling.
Like the guys have said the main point that a buyer is wanting is that they shoot. And both do from what I and others have said.