I just have a question if anyone wants to share I figure this group knows the most from anywhere I've looked.
I hunt public land in Utah and Colorado and so far I've been fairly successful I'm just wondering if there is any advice anyone could give that would set me a part in terms of calls and calling (I know we are all looking for that). It seems every one in the neighborhood has a primos call (no offense to them) that they picked up at cabelas or something. I'm a guy who likes off the wall calls that haven't been heard around here since I'm sure the birds have heard everything the big companies have to offer or see. I've purchased a few different calls from down south and back east I just didn't know what people thoughts were. I'm particularly looking for unique mouth calls and owl hooters. I'm not sure if I'm making much sense but I love to share info and knew this was the spot. Let me know if anyone has any advice or is in the same boat.
UG aka Bob
I've hunted a fair amount of public land (Ft. Hood in Texas, Talledega Nat'l Forests in Alabama) and would say that your strategies of hunting would matter more than your calling. Meaning, if you can hunt during the week, then you're going to have a MAJOR leg-up on the weekend warrior crowd. Not to cast aspersions here ('cause I'm sure there are some very successful people on here that employ this strategy), but most of my success has come later on in the morning & during mid-day (9am-1pm) vs. first thing in the morning. By mid-morning, the early morning crowd has gotten fed-up with "CALL SHY BIRDS" (have you heard that around there? ;) and have gone home. This is great 'cause you can sleep in! :) hehehe...
Some of the more successful turkey hunters I know around here (Alabama) hunt more when everybody else is out of the public land woods - no matter what calls they're using. They find all the high points, use locator calls & cutts/yelps to find the gobbling birds, and then get down to business with success regularly.
If you want to break outside of the Primos box, then I'd say check out Woodhaven's mouth calls & perhaps the new Spur Collector call; here are a few videos I made on YouTube recently:
Red Wasp: http://youtu.be/LimisYr-RP4
Black Wasp: http://youtu.be/NviuE-dMCo0
Spur Collector: http://youtu.be/2FWiNvYjldA
You can order this stuff online. That Spur Collector might be really good for Rio's & Marriam's - just a hunch since it's a brand new call, but it's got a higher pitch/note to it when you call on it.
Just my $0.02; good luck man!
BGD
Trumpet, Wingbone ,and or Tube is worth the time investment to learn to use. But not many take the time.
Thanks for the info. I just bought a black wasp so we'll see how it goes. Agreed a little pricey so who knows. I bought a red reactor also and will give them a try. I have the benefit of going mid-week so that helps a ton. I'll look into the spur collector also. Thanks for the info and I just subscribed to your channel on YouTube so I look forward to more videos!
Thanks
UG
Quote from: guesswho on February 23, 2014, 08:26:03 PM
Trumpet, Wingbone ,and or Tube is worth the time investment to learn to use. But not many take the time.
Guesswho just gave you the keys to the kingdom.
The thing about turkey calls is that each call type has a rather specific sound. If you pick up 10 box calls they may all sound slightly different, but they will still all sound like box calls. The best (and for that matter the worst) sounding box calls on the planet still have a box call sound. Same goes for every other call type.
There probably isn't a two year old gobbler out there that isn't already very familiar with diaphragm, pot, and box call sounds. The "secret" to suction yelpers, and to some extent tube calls, is that you are dealing with an entirely different type of sound that most turkeys have never heard before.
I hunt public land here and there. Early in the season ill drive around some early on in the morning and try to find a bird gobbling on his own. Normally there's people everywhere so i take note where people are parked and then head to town for breakfast. I'll return around 9am and check some places i know the birds will be and areas overlooked that morning. Hardly ever do i jump out and start calling or hitting locator calls. A lot of times ill roll down the windows and just listen for fifteen minutes or so. I carry lots of calls and try different ones off and on. I like to call soft and move around a bit like a hen feeding. when things are quiet and tough to get things going ill use a tube call 90% of the time and all day. I've used tube calls the whole season and tagged out when nothing seemed to be around or answer other calls. Some times they gobble a few times and shut up until i try a different sound and call sometimes on the third or fourth call or sequence. They all seem to be different and want different talk or hardly any at all. I let them tell me what i should do next!!
All I hear around here is terrible sounding mouth callers so I just try not to sound like them. I can usually tell if it's a person before they call by the 100th owl hoot
Definetly learn a "odd" type of calling(trumpet,tube,etc)I do this at home hunting on private.While I still use pot and box calls,its not hard to tell where the neighbors are when they are hunting.Same sound,same cadence,same amount of time between calls.I dont know how many birds ive called in past or away from them because I sounded different than the same ol' routine.
Quote from: alloutdoors on February 24, 2014, 07:51:03 AM
Quote from: guesswho on February 23, 2014, 08:26:03 PM
Trumpet, Wingbone ,and or Tube is worth the time investment to learn to use. But not many take the time.
Guesswho just gave you the keys to the kingdom.
The thing about turkey calls is that each call type has a rather specific sound. If you pick up 10 box calls they may all sound slightly different, but they will still all sound like box calls. The best (and for that matter the worst) sounding box calls on the planet still have a box call sound. Same goes for every other call type.
There probably isn't a two year old gobbler out there that isn't already very familiar with diaphragm, pot, and box call sounds. The "secret" to suction yelpers, and to some extent tube calls, is that you are dealing with an entirely different type of sound that most turkeys have never heard before.
I agree with everything I've heard and I'm looking forward on trying my skills at a wingbone this season. Every bird I seem to kill the last few years have been with a different sounding call that most guys don't use (hence back to the primos reference)whether it be a diaphragm or pot. Thanks fior all the great advice and I knew I came to the right spot. If anyone heads west (the real west..Utah) to hunt (I know it's probably not one of the top choices) let me know I'd be glad to assist.
UG
I agree with Guesswho, also add a Jet Slate type call, a scratch box, and a double frame diaphragm to the list.
Quote from: guesswho on February 23, 2014, 08:26:03 PM
Trumpet, Wingbone ,and or Tube is worth the time investment to learn to use. But not many take the time.
^^^THIS^^^
Best advice is to call less and be more patient scout more to know where the birds are before season starts hunt those areas with little calling and lot of patience and you'll kill them they may not be as vocal as before season started but they are still there
Quote from: jakesdad on February 24, 2014, 05:03:55 PM
Definetly learn a "odd" type of calling(trumpet,tube,etc)I do this at home hunting on private.While I still use pot and box calls,its not hard to tell where the neighbors are when they are hunting. Same sound,same cadence,same amount of time between calls.I dont know how many birds ive called in past or away from them because I sounded different than the same ol' routine.
:z-winnersmiley: IMO, this is the golden nugget right here; no matter what call (weird, custom, commercial, kinky, etc.), you *have* to sound like a real hen... I'm not saying I'm a GNC champ in an NWTF competition or anything, but -- most callers I listen to do *exactly* what jakesdad is saying -- "same sound, same cadence, same amount of time" -- and it just doesn't sound like a real hen, to me or to the gobbler...
Just my opinion here, but ... The guy that really taught me how to call well hunted *MANY* public land properties that were dubbed "Call Shy/Non-Vocal Birds/Can't Kill Any Birds" pieces of land, & I've got a ton of his home-made videos where he's calling them up to him like ordering chicken at your local Chick-Fil-A & blasting them, no problem... Granted, he's a terrific caller, but I learned right then & there to take a long, hard look at my calling & do whatever it took to sound like a real hen... Cadence, pauses, inflections, rasp vs. no rasp, going from low-high-low on my cackles, quiet little purrs, etc. massively improved my call-to-gobble & kill rates...
Definitely experiment with different/odd-ball calls, but if a box call is the only thing you can work, find videos on YouTube of real hens & make *real* sure you're getting really, really close to their calling; I think you'll find the investment in THAT well worth the hard work & effort.
Again, just me $0.02...
Oh ya - one more thing - my buddy that's a great caller - DIE HARD Primos True Double mouth call user! :)
Whether it's public or private land (they both can be hunted to death), I think the best thing a man can do is make the commitment to sound exactly like a hen turkey that wants to be with other turkeys. Anybody can make sounds on any type of call, but few make the honest effort it takes to sound just like a real turkey on each call they decide to carry. Most folks don't really pay attention to how birds talk to each other as they go thru their daily routine.
I hunt alot of public land birds in VA. A tactic that has worked well for me is to work birds from an unlikely direction. Most hunters around here are lazy and take the same path that every other unsuccessful hunter has on a bird. The tom hears owl hoot from the road, 25 min later yelping from the easiest place to set up. If I know where public land turkeys are, then I'm going to be on the opposite side from the typical hunter. I also use a wing bone yelper alot on public and private land.
Do some leaf scratching and tone down your calling both in sound and sequence.
Soft soft soft and very little and sit when you hear one gobble run to him and let know your there one more time and sit and wait and be quiet you do not want to make him gobble anymore or you will have someone else hear him and come in on you. That's the #1 problem on public land. I swear People get death and dumb when they hear one gobble. The newbs!!!!! Oh the newbs.. LoL good luck
Sounds to me like you already got it figured out. You said you've had success. There is no magic recipe no matter what anyone tell you about great calling or great calls. We all want to thing we are great callers. Calling is a very small part of the puzzle...and I'd say woodsmanship, patience and scouting play a much bigger part than any calls. A simple yelp or cluck will seal the deal if everything else is good. Scouting your hunting ground is the most important thing you can do...If I had 5 days to hunt the first 3 days would be scouting..if you know where the birds roost and where they go after flydown...that's half the battle...setup then become the next factor. I hunt Public Lands mostly and have been very successful calling very little...scouting and setup pays bigtime.
Most hens I hear in the woods wouldn't win no NWTF calling contest.
Quote from: ridgerunner on March 14, 2014, 08:58:24 PMCalling is a very small part of the puzzle...and I'd say woodsmanship, patience and scouting play a much bigger part than any calls.
Most hens I hear in the woods wouldn't win no NWTF calling contest.
I disagree a little......
I think calling is a huge part of the equation. Correct calling that is....
While I do think that scouting will better your odds of success better than anything, I don't leave the calls in the truck.
If woodsmanship and patience played such a major role in hunter success there would be no need for a turkey call. Just wait 'em out, you did your scouting, correct ?
I think the point that most guys were trying to make here was that when it comes to actual turkey calling, about 99% of most hunters sound like a broken chicken. They don't have proper cadence and there's no inflection or feeling in their calling. It's the same 'ol mono-tone 6 plain yelps over, and over, and over......
Turkeys are constantly making soft subtle sounds that most guys don't even recognize. When they want to get with other turkeys, they have emotion in their calling.
I believe most guys would be staggered by how much better they could do if proper calling was done in conjunction with scouting knowledge, woodsmanship and patience. I work very hard on my calling and I pay ultra, ultra close attention to the sounds I hear actual birds make in the woods. I let the birds educate me in their language and I replicate exactly what I hear.....and some of that isn't even a vocalization....turkeys make lots of "sounds".......
If you don't think that calling plays a major part in turkey hunting, just leave the calls at home and see how good you do, public or private. Calling plays a huge role in it....IF.....you sound like a real turkey.
Quote from: BowBendr on March 15, 2014, 06:36:52 AM
Quote from: ridgerunner on March 14, 2014, 08:58:24 PMCalling is a very small part of the puzzle...and I'd say woodsmanship, patience and scouting play a much bigger part than any calls.
Most hens I hear in the woods wouldn't win no NWTF calling contest.
I disagree a little......
I think calling is a huge part of the equation. Correct calling that is....
While I do think that scouting will better your odds of success better than anything, I don't leave the calls in the truck.
If woodsmanship and patience played such a major role in hunter success there would be no need for a turkey call. Just wait 'em out, you did your scouting, correct ?
I think the point that most guys were trying to make here was that when it comes to actual turkey calling, about 99% of most hunters sound like a broken chicken. They don't have proper cadence and there's no inflection or feeling in their calling. It's the same 'ol mono-tone 6 plain yelps over, and over, and over......
Turkeys are constantly making soft subtle sounds that most guys don't even recognize. When they want to get with other turkeys, they have emotion in their calling.
I believe most guys would be staggered by how much better they could do if proper calling was done in conjunction with scouting knowledge, woodsmanship and patience. I work very hard on my calling and I pay ultra, ultra close attention to the sounds I hear actual birds make in the woods. I let the birds educate me in their language and I replicate exactly what I hear.....and some of that isn't even a vocalization....turkeys make lots of "sounds".......
If you don't think that calling plays a major part in turkey hunting, just leave the calls at home and see how good you do, public or private. Calling plays a huge role in it....IF.....you sound like a real turkey.
I agree with ya on the language part of calling....but I rarely hear hens calling in the woods like many hunters will do, using that repeated series of yelps .... calling is a part of the game obviously.. I agree with ya there.. but not as big a part as many novice hunters think..that's my point.. spend more time scouting, learning the lay of the land and practice patience will pay bigger dividends IMO.
By the way..(not to be a smart arse), but I have killed more than one gobbler without ever using a call by just scratching the leaves like a feeding hen, wing beats etc., as you said, turkeys make lots of sounds.. many times, in my experience, very little calling is needed , or in many cases no calling.. Every situation is unique so I won't make a blanket statement that it isn't necessary to use a call, but try calling a lot less.
Once I stopped and listened to the turkey and left my calls in my vest, I learned what the turkeys do naturally without my interference....That's when I started learning..try it sometime..leave the calls in the truck and go kill a bird.. I've done it more than once hunting public lands...scouting pays off...find where the toms roost on a ridge, setup on the end of a ridge in the direction you've seen them go by scouting in advance, place one hen decoy out...wait till he flies down and heads your way, reach down and scratch some leaves then get ready...that's one way.
^^ I agree ^^ :icon_thumright:
A couple years ago, I was hunting a snowmobile trail. The only action I had was one little hen that was hanging around.
I learned a lot by sitting there and watching her behavior. She would purr contentedly around my decoy, and scratch in the leaves and purr. Not once did she yelp her head off. She was just content to be in the company of my decoy.
Eventually, she wandered off. I learned that yelping is a call that I use the least, but purring and scratching in the leaves along with a cluck or two, is very effective.
With calling, less is more than enough.
Here's video evidence of a hen yelping her head off, during spring turkey season: http://youtu.be/eGkuGbYfjts
I respectfully but totally disagree with the hunt philosophy of calling less; I'm more of a Billy Yargus/Will Primos "Hottest Hen In The Woods" hunter. I'm not telling anyone on this board to hunt that way; I'm just saying, that's how I choose to hunt.
This past Saturday was a perfect example of why I prefer to hunt w/a more aggressive calling style. Nothing was happening in the woods; we knew there were birds in the area, but -- none of them were gobbling. Around 8am, I "showered down" & we heard 5 birds gobble. Unfortunately, we also heard a boss hen lose her mind, & do exactly like this hen in the video above. Due to BAD SETUP technique (not calling), we weren't able to seal the deal. But, I'm 100% confident that if we hadn't called like crazy, nothing would have happened.
For public land, I totally see merit in the argument of getting a bird to sound off, but then moving in tight & bagging him with little to no calling; I've hunted my fair share of public land, & if there's a lot of hunt pressure, this is probably the tactic I'd take now. Fortunately, I hunt private land now.
I'm more of a just enough to kill him type, which most of the time isn't a whole lot of calling. I'm a firm believer that hammering on the calls will kill birds, but less will kill more in the long run.
Quote from: guesswho on March 17, 2014, 01:21:42 PM
I'm more of a just enough to kill him type, which most of the time isn't a whole lot of calling. I'm a firm believer that hammering on the calls will kill birds, but less will kill more in the long run.
Guesswho, you're probably right. And, that's what is so cool about turkey hunting; different styles/techniques can still bag birds. Again, Billy Yargis & Will Primos endorse this style of calling/hunting, & I subscribe to their model; as far as I can tell, they've both killed a truck trailer load of birds. See this: http://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/turkey/2013/04/12/will-primos-calls-a-lot-and-calls-loud-to-turkeys
I've tried the little/no calling stuff -- and, to amend my statement, that's typically how I always start every hunt in the mornings - minimal, light calling. But, if nothing's happened by around 8am, I'm letting it rip with a box call (or other call) w/loud, aggressive calling; my experience has shown me that this a) doesn't bother anything and b) 9/10 gets one to sound off at least once so I can then setup on him & hopefully knock him in the dirt.
Again, I'm just sharing what works for me (around my neck of the woods & my private land). I've had this work for me on public land, too. And, it would've worked this past Saturday when I had 5 toms gobbling, had my hunting buddy not done what he done. :) But, that's another story...
Quote from: guesswho on March 17, 2014, 01:21:42 PM
I'm more of a just enough to kill him type, which most of the time isn't a whole lot of calling. I'm a firm believer that hammering on the calls will kill birds, but less will kill more in the long run.
Nailed it
A friend of mine that only hunts public land and calls loud & often bagged this bird this morning; said he came in w/out gobbling to his setup.
Quote from: bamagtrdude on March 17, 2014, 09:58:19 AM
Here's video evidence of a hen yelping her head off, during spring turkey season: http://youtu.be/eGkuGbYfjts
Video evidence of a hen coming to bust yer arse...
Quote from: alloutdoors on February 24, 2014, 07:51:03 AM
Guesswho just gave you the keys to the kingdom.
The thing about turkey calls is that each call type has a rather specific sound. If you pick up 10 box calls they may all sound slightly different, but they will still all sound like box calls. The best (and for that matter the worst) sounding box calls on the planet still have a box call sound. Same goes for every other call type.
There probably isn't a two year old gobbler out there that isn't already very familiar with diaphragm, pot, and box call sounds. The "secret" to suction yelpers, and to some extent tube calls, is that you are dealing with an entirely different type of sound that most turkeys have never heard before.
Turkeys come to turkey calls because they sound like a turkey....in the spring turkeys may come to investigate weird sounds but you'll never convince me they have a clue as to if you are playing a box call a diaphragm, trumpet or pot call.
You have got it all wrong a turkey does not know if you are using a primos call or a custom box, pot, tube, diaphragm call. Turkeys respond to Turkey calls.... period. Hunting TV stars are fooling you to think you need to buy this new call... it will make you kill more birds... BS. Learn to make good turkey sounds, scout, and good woodsman ship kills more turkeys than any thing else period, not a magic call
Quote from: jwhunter on March 19, 2014, 05:42:14 PM
You have got it all wrong a turkey does not know if you are using a primos call or a custom box, pot, tube, diaphragm call. Turkeys respond to Turkey calls.... period. Hunting TV stars are fooling you to think you need to buy this new call... it will make you kill more birds... BS. Learn to make good turkey sounds, scout, and good woodsman ship kills more turkeys than any thing else period, not a magic call
Quote from: L.F. Cox on March 18, 2014, 06:34:49 PM
Turkeys come to turkey calls because they sound like a turkey....in the spring turkeys may come to investigate weird sounds but you'll never convince me they have a clue as to if you are playing a box call a diaphragm, trumpet or pot call.
I have to agree with the above. Woodsmanship: knowledge of the landscape and how turkeys use it, and making good strategic decisions during the hunt will always outweigh your calling ability in importance. However, it does help to sound like a turkey and know how to work a bird with a call.
Your primary focus when calling should be realism, sound like a turkey. Certain calls make certain vocalizations better than others. Wingbone calls make great, quiet tree yelps and tube calls can make obnoxiously loud yelps and cuts that will make a turkey gobble when other calls won't. The real ticket is to learn how to make each call sound like a turkey, then learn when each call works best for you. I've heard guys use a mouth call and make it sound just as raspy and sharp as a box call. I've heard guys do kee kees on a slate call that sounded clear and whiny as a latex mouthcall. Having the ability to operate a call to that level, and thus beyond what 95% of hunters can do, is a very deadly trait when hunting public land turkeys.
Choosing a call most days it's a game of guess and check. If they don't respond to one thing, try another. Then again, it may not be your calling at all. The birds may be in a different area or "turned off" by the weather. That's part of the frustration that makes turkey hunting so fun.