I HAVE FFII ON REM. 11-87 20GA AND REM. 870 SUPER MAG 12GA. JUST WONDERING IF NOT TIGHTENING LOCK SCREWS BEFORE SHOOTING EACH SHOT AFTER ADJ. AFFECT WHERE IT HITS. I DIDN'T READ DIRECTIONS TILL I FINISHED BOTH GUN BUT DIDN'T TIGHTEN SCREWS TILL I FINISHED. HAD HARD TIME ZEROING BOTH. IF HITTING HIGH WOULD ADJ DOWN AND IT STILL HIT HIGH. I WAS USING A LEAD SLED. NEVER GOT THE 12GA ZEROED.
I tighten at least snug the lock screws before every shot. My major complaint with the FF is the terrible adjustment features. One of mine moves at an angle, may move a bit then jump way over. That one has started losing zero and cost me a bunch of $ in the process. Off it goes to Burris and on goes another(had a spare). My other FF actually moved the right directions and sighted in after about 3 shots. They need to lose the BS adjustment design and go back to the drawing bd. I do love the light weight and the ease of the sight, but hate sighting one in. The best way to sight it in is with a vice and close range work with cheap loads. Even fine tuning at 40 works fairly well with the vice.
If you dont have a vice, a good rest can work ok with a friend to help. Hold the rig very steady in the rest and have your buddy adjust carefully while looking through the sight.
Quote from: Reloader on March 08, 2011, 06:12:28 PM
I tighten at least snug the lock screws before every shot. My major complaint with the FF is the terrible adjustment features. One of mine moves at an angle, may move a bit then jump way over. That one has started losing zero and cost me a bunch of $ in the process. Off it goes to Burris and on goes another(had a spare). My other FF actually moved the right directions and sighted in after about 3 shots. They need to lose the BS adjustment design and go back to the drawing bd. I do love the light weight and the ease of the sight, but hate sighting one in. The best way to sight it in is with a vice and close range work with cheap loads. Even fine tuning at 40 works fairly well with the vice.
If you dont have a vice, a good rest can work ok with a friend to help. Hold the rig very steady in the rest and have your buddy adjust carefully while looking through the sight.
i thought it was me. i've patterened a lot of gun over the many years i've been hunting but this was the most trying. i had some light loads in both 12ga and 20 ga. used them up pretty quick and had to shoot the expensive hevi-shot. even thought my 12ga shoots 3 1/2 i was shooting 3" hevi-shot. then i had to go to 3 1/2" hevi-shot. boy does that bugger kick. that's why i quit on 12ga. i was using a lead sled which helped hold gun in place. plus i used a ratchet strap to hold sled to table. that worked all right with 20ga but different story with the 12ga 3 1/2.
mine sighted in easily. I always tighten screws after each adjustment. Those screws are there to hold it where you have adjusted it to. Only takes a second to tighten or loosen them
I sung the lock screws before each shot.
i will tighten them now. didn't read directions that said to do this till i had quit. i'm use to zeroing scopes that say shot high by turning up-down adj screw down. i turned it 1/4 down and it didn't move the hit. turned it 1/2 turn more. same thing. finally turned it 2 turns and it moved down some. this on 20 ga. same on 12ga but i gave up when i only had the 3 1/2" hevi-shells left.
Honestly guys this is a 2 or 3 shot sight in process most of the time.
Using any type of rest or sandbags on your shooting bench fire your first patterning shot aiming at the center of the target.
Mark the center of your pattern on your target.
Set your gun on the rest or sandbags so that the red dot is on the center of the target (not the pattern).
Without touching your gun and with the lock screws loosened turn the elevation and windage screws until the dot is in the middle of your pattern (not the target).
Tighten lock screws.
Fire another shot to check your pattern and you should be done.
If you use the shoot and then turn the screw a little then shoot again and turn a little it's going to take you a while. I'm not sure its absolutely critical that you tighten the lock screws before each shot but it sure wouldn't hurt.
Quote from: BurrisOptics on March 09, 2011, 10:00:11 AM
Honestly guys this is a 2 or 3 shot sight in process most of the time.
Using any type of rest or sandbags on your shooting bench fire your first patterning shot aiming at the center of the target.
Mark the center of your pattern on your target.
Set your gun on the rest or sandbags so that the red dot is on the center of the target (not the pattern).
Without touching your gun and with the lock screws loosened turn the elevation and windage screws until the dot is in the middle of your pattern (not the target).
Tighten lock screws.
Fire another shot to check your pattern and you should be done.
If you use the shoot and then turn the screw a little then shoot again and turn a little it's going to take you a while. I'm not sure its absolutely critical that you tighten the lock screws before each shot but it sure wouldn't hurt.
That's how I did it. It took 3 shots.
Quote from: BurrisOptics on March 09, 2011, 10:00:11 AM
Honestly guys this is a 2 or 3 shot sight in process most of the time.
Using any type of rest or sandbags on your shooting bench fire your first patterning shot aiming at the center of the target.
Mark the center of your pattern on your target.
Set your gun on the rest or sandbags so that the red dot is on the center of the target (not the pattern).
Without touching your gun and with the lock screws loosened turn the elevation and windage screws until the dot is in the middle of your pattern (not the target).
Tighten lock screws.
Fire another shot to check your pattern and you should be done.
If you use the shoot and then turn the screw a little then shoot again and turn a little it's going to take you a while. I'm not sure its absolutely critical that you tighten the lock screws before each shot but it sure wouldn't hurt.
just like a scope. :icon_thumright:
It really should be that simple and has been on some of the FFs I've zeroed, but not always as many here will testify.
Try getting one to zero easily when the dot slightly moves upon locking or sighting one in when the dot moves at angles instead of vert/horiz like it's supposed to. I have one that's a PITA. IE your in the bags and moving the dot left or right because you are there elevavtion wise, but need windage adjusted. You move the dot L or R, lock, and your next shot may be 2-3" high or low. There is enough give while in bags to not notice a small difference with the large dot(shouldn't be happening anyway). It works better in a vice, but not many carry a vice to the range.
I've sighted in two that only took 3-4 shots each and actually moved correctly. Plan to sight in another this weekend and hopefully it will adjust correctly.
The FF is a good sight, but could use many changes. Some of my gripes are the ridiculous adjustments, the fact that you must remove it to change a battery, the dot is not clear on any of the 3 I own, the dot is larger than the stated 4MOA, and one of the 3 I own has paralax issues.
It's a good sight for the price, you have to spend a good deal more for a better reflex.
Reloader
I've seen some that don't travel exactly vertical or horizontal when making adjustments. I know what you are referring to. If using the described method you shouldn't have too many issue getting the dot to travel to the point you need it to be at even with some drifting during your adjustment. That's been my experience anyway.
Any shifting you get while setting the lock screws should be minimal at best. If you are getting more than just a very slight shift then you have something that should be replaced. I'd be happy to have that replaced if that's the case. That holds true for a FF with parallax problems. I'd like to hear more about that by the way.
Every optic on the market right now can be improved. The FF is no different in that respect. Just keep in mind that we are always working on improving our products. You never know what the future holds for product development.
Burris Optics,
I always check for parallax on optics. Some are set for certain ranges of course, so a little is a given at other ranges.
I found this last night and intend to further test at a longer range this eve. I was swaping one of my FFs by locking the gun down, placing a target on the wall centered with the existing sight dot at 8yds and gently swaping the sights to get the new sight close before hitting the range. After I made the swap, adjusted the dot, and tightened everything down, I noticed the dot moving around on the target when I moved my head. My first thought was no big deal, it's only 8 yds. So I go grab two other FFs and check the same way. Neither of the other two moved at all, they stayed dead in the center of the target dot as long as I could see the dot in the screen. I put the one back on the target and it moved over an inch when I moved my eye around. Again, I first thought it was just the close range, but it was dark out, so I couldn't check at longer range. I'm hoping this isn't the case at 15-40+. Parallax could really hurt with today's super tight turkey guns.
I agree that you should still be able to dial it in even if the dot moves on an angle, but only if in a vice IME. I've even tried it on a bench rest with a rabbit ear bag in the rear and it's a challenge to keep the gun perfectly still while moving the dot. After you first start moving, you're screwed if the gun moves at all. With a vice it will keep the gun from moving. I already carry enough junk to the range, so usually just have a tripod rest and rabbit ear bag on hand. This will work with two people just fine(one guy hold the gun firm, the other adjusting the dot to the center of the pattern).
Is the angled movement and slight movement of the dot while locking a valid wtty issue? I only have one that does it, but it's good to go when locked(if it's on :D)
Thanks,
Reloader
Let me know what you find with the parallax issue. I'd be interested in what it will do at 25 yards. That is a warranty issue and I will replace it if you wish. At 8 yards I might be able to accept some parallax but yours sounds excessive.
I use a bulls bag so there's very little movement when adjusting the sight. Having it in something solid is the key but I've had good luck just setting it on my standard bench rest as well.
I'm not sure what you describe is a warranty issue but if it seems excessive then I'd take care of you. If I got it in my hand and found it to be otherwise then I'd probably send it back to you. It all depends. If I can't sight it in using the method described then its a warranty issue without a doubt. If I can get it dead nuts on with 3 shots with a centerfire rifle then its going back to you. Like you said, once its on you are golden.
going to try burrisoptics method. sounds like it will work.
Quote from: Mailman on March 08, 2011, 10:46:13 PM
mine sighted in easily. I always tighten screws after each adjustment. Those screws are there to hold it where you have adjusted it to. Only takes a second to tighten or loosen them
:icon_thumright:
I have three and one is doing the angle thing. up and left at the same time.
I have an extra and may try it tommorrow
Just mounted a 3rd on my 10 ga and for kicks I sighted in without locking down ea time.. after 4 shots I had my pattern shooting 1" off center to the right from 12" lower from the original speed dot setup. I locked it down tried again and same place.. For those that look for even a slight pattern shift on your gun I stress trigger work.. Most factory trigger pulls are nasty.. 1 of the worst is Rem 870's coming in at around 7lbs on average. You have to experience a good trigger job on a rig down to at least 3-4 lb's trigger pull.. Mossberg among a couple others have started the next evolution of turkey guns with adjustable trigger pull without gunsmith work..
Quote from: gobbler74 on March 10, 2011, 11:45:16 AM
Just mounted a 3rd on my 10 ga and for kicks I sighted in without locking down ea time.. after 4 shots I had my pattern shooting 1" off center to the right from 12" lower from the original speed dot setup. I locked it down tried again and same place.. For those that look for even a slight pattern shift on your gun I stress trigger work.. Most factory trigger pulls are nasty.. 1 of the worst is Rem 870's coming in at around 7lbs on average. You have to experience a good trigger job on a rig down to at least 3-4 lb's trigger pull.. Mossberg among a couple others have started the next evolution of turkey guns with adjustable trigger pull without gunsmith work..
Every Rem 870 owner owes it to theirselves to buy the Patriot springs :D
Thanks Burris Optics!
It was 7pm when I made it home last night. I'll check the parallax issue this eve or in the morn and get back with you.
If the angle movement and slight movement when locking is not a wtty issue, I guess I'll just hang on to that one for now. The parallax is my main concern at this point, but if it goes away at 15+ I'm fine with it. It is sort of strange that the other two had none. That is one of the great Pros of the FF, being able to shoot when the dot is on their head regardless of head placement or dot position in the screen. Comes in handy if you need to shoot in an awkward position(or left handed for a righty).
Have a good one,
Reloader
Please do that.
Like I said, if there is parallax at 25 then it's most definitely a warranty issue and I'll get you set up with a new sight.
Quote from: BurrisOptics on March 10, 2011, 03:53:43 PM
Please do that.
Like I said, if there is parallax at 25 then it's most definitely a warranty issue and I'll get you set up with a new sight.
burrisoptics. when you say parallax at 25 yds what are you talking about.
Burris Optics,
I checked the parallax on the FF in question yesterday eve. I think it will be fine. It does have parallax, but I can keep it in a 3" dot at 15-30yds. Close enough for turkey hunting. As I mentioned the other day, it seems to have around an inch of parallax at close range, but 15+ is my main concern with turkey optics. Maybe an ever so slight difference in the glass or angle of the glass on this one? Also, it's not noticeable until you hit near the edges of the screen, 99% of the time I will be shooting with it nearly in the middle.
Thanks for the help and have a great day,
Reloader
schief,
We're talking about movement of the reticle or dot in this case. IE the gun is stable, but you move your eye around. The dot should stay in the exact same spot on the target regardless of eye placement as long as you can see the dot in the screen.
Quote from: Reloader on March 11, 2011, 09:58:19 AM
schief,
We're talking about movement of the reticle or dot in this case. IE the gun is stable, but you move your eye around. The dot should stay in the exact same spot on the target regardless of eye placement as long as you can see the dot in the screen.
got it. thanks
Quote from: Reloader on March 11, 2011, 09:54:23 AM
Burris Optics,
I checked the parallax on the FF in question yesterday eve. I think it will be fine. It does have parallax, but I can keep it in a 3" dot at 15-30yds. Close enough for turkey hunting. As I mentioned the other day, it seems to have around an inch of parallax at close range, but 15+ is my main concern with turkey optics. Maybe an ever so slight difference in the glass or angle of the glass on this one? Also, it's not noticeable until you hit near the edges of the screen, 99% of the time I will be shooting with it nearly in the middle.
Thanks for the help and have a great day,
Reloader
Personally I think that's too much parallax and would replace that in a heart beat. I just checked a FF on my desk and its got about 2" at 100 yards. I'll leave it up to you.
In that case my ff2 has about 8 miles of parralex. That one on you desk should do the trick. ;D :icon_thumright:
Quote from: gobbler74 on March 11, 2011, 04:56:10 PM
In that case my ff2 has about 8 miles of parralex. That one on you desk should do the trick. ;D :icon_thumright:
Go figure. ;D