My buddy and I have an ongoing debate with some local turkey hunters around our area in their choice of weapons for spring gobbler season. They choose to use a rifle to hunt them, while we prefer shotguns. I was raised and trained by an uncle who flat out refused to entertain the idea of using a rifle for spring gobblers, and told me the turkey hunters use shotguns, and the turkey killers use rifles. The guys we had our little debate with was telling us how they killed their turkeys last year, and the closest one was around 80 yards, and the rest were further. Their reasoning is a rifle enables them to shoot further, thus eliminating "hung" up gobblers, they kick less, and you have to be a better marksman to hit a turkey with one bullet rather than a swarm of pellets, as they called it.
It is perfectly legal in WV to use a rifle, so they aren't breaking any laws, but how is this forum's view on rifles in the spring woods? And I'm not advocating any kind of gun control, just wondering what everyone else is using and why??
I'll start it and say I use a scoped 12 gauge, it is just how I was taught and my belief, and I couldn't imagine using a rifle to harvest my birds. Any other views are welcome and I look forward to reading the views of others on this subject. Thanks
I don't agree with it. I think it's too dangerous.
But, if its legal it's legal.
Quote from: CASH on March 25, 2013, 02:33:42 PM
I don't agree with it. I think it's too dangerous.
But, if its legal it's legal.
X2.
I don't like it .. but I try not to judge others.. just not my cup of tea.. the name of the game for me is getting them close and to put them down in the most efficient way possible.. that is a shotgun in my mind.. I grew up in WV and I have seen and heard of a lot of birds shot with a rifle and never found .. you miss by a small margin at any distance over 50 yds and you have a wounded turkey on your hands
I don't understand why that is legal. I have turkey hunted WV several times and often wondered who would want to kill one with a rifle.
It's unsafe.
And a turkey should never suffer the disgrace of being killed by a rifle, IMHO.
Ok I've never knocked one over with a rifle, but in all reality how much more "unsafe" can it be than deer hunting. I know there is the Blaze factor, but other than that I don't get that argument. I personally have never felt the need to use a rifle but I'm not say'n I never will either.
I guess it's kinda like sushi, calamari, or caviar, don't knock it till you've tried it.
No condemnation on my part,but,I don't care for it.I use a scoped shotgun and sometimes a pop up blind. There are those that are against that ,but we don't beat up on each other over it either.Tradition sometimes plays a big role in how folks hunt.
Dont like it and deff dont think it should be legal due to the majority most people use decoys now. Is va and west va the only 2 states that allow it? I ran across a old man last year that had a 12 over 222. Said the rifle was for when they wouldnt come close enough. The terrain here is rugged and until the leaves come out you can be on one ridge and scan the ridge across from you. I hate to be trying to manuever on a gobbling bird to get in position when someone on the next ridge hears the gobbling then catches me moving.
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 03:12:06 PM
Ok I've never knocked one over with a rifle, but in all reality how much more "unsafe" can it be than deer hunting. I know there is the Blaze factor, but other than that I don't get that argument. I personally have never felt the need to use a rifle but I'm not say'n I never will either.
I guess it's kinda like sushi, calamari, or caviar, don't knock it till you've tried it.
I think the safety factor comes into play because of the camo we wear.
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/redleg06_photo/sad-bill-cosby-o_zps786596be.gif)
To me, that takes most of the challenge and skill out of turkey hunting.....and I wouldnt turkey hunt if it wasnt challenging. I like having to get them close enough to kill them with a shotgun or a bow(if that's your thing) but a rifle is not for me.
Its legal in Texas also and it was REAL frustrating to see the "rifle guys" go out and kill birds 300yds across a wheat field while I was out hunting them with a shotgun. It just doesnt take much skill to kill them with a rifle IMO.
If you want to talk about "marksmanship" go to the shooting range. If you say you do it for the meat - the grocery store sells it cheaper than you can pay for gas to the hunting spots and the cost of rifle shells...
Lets be real...It's just easier to kill one if you dont have to get close.
Quote from: wvboy on March 25, 2013, 02:51:06 PM
I don't like it .. but I try not to judge others.. just not my cup of tea.. the name of the game for me is getting them close and to put them down in the most efficient way possible.. that is a shotgun in my mind.. I grew up in WV and I have seen and heard of a lot of birds shot with a rifle and never found .. you miss by a small margin at any distance over 50 yds and you have a wounded turkey on your hands
I know of a lot of turkeys being shot with a rifle in the fall to never be found. Even if they do get it they hardly have any meat unless shot in the head or neck.
It is legal where I hunt....But if I got a vote it would not be!
Quote from: redarrow on March 25, 2013, 03:14:17 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 03:12:06 PM
Ok I've never knocked one over with a rifle, but in all reality how much more "unsafe" can it be than deer hunting. I know there is the Blaze factor, but other than that I don't get that argument. I personally have never felt the need to use a rifle but I'm not say'n I never will either.
I guess it's kinda like sushi, calamari, or caviar, don't knock it till you've tried it.
I think the safety factor comes into play because of the camo we wear.
Yeah that's the only con I can find. Otherwise I just don't see it as that big of a deal. I think tradition is rooted deep enough that by and large most people are going to accept a full choked shotgun as a traditional "turkey gun". That said if I were to take up poking them with a rifle, a 22K Hornet would be awesome.
I know I'll probaly get grilled over this so let the BBQ begin.
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 03:12:06 PM
Ok I've never knocked one over with a rifle, but in all reality how much more "unsafe" can it be than deer hunting. I know there is the Blaze factor, but other than that I don't get that argument.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
There's a reason hunters wear blaze during deer season. Since they don't during turkey season, there's a big safety issue.
It might be OK if you were hunting in an area open enough to be able to see your backstop, but the idea doesn't appeal to me very much.
Unethical? no, not if it's a well-placed shot, just like killing anything else... why is it unfair to the animal to kill a turkey with a rifle but not a deer?
I don't think it would be safe though, too many hunters in full camo and a bullet will go a lot farther than bird shot.... I hunt public land and would not like rifle rounds flying through the woods especially with people who shoot at movement that they think is a turkey.
If it's legal then
My jaw just hit the floor, I had no idea you could use rifles in any state for spring hunting. In the fall yes I've heard of it but then I don't fall hunt unless its with my bow.
To be honest it would suck, my season would last for about an hour the first two days regardless of weather and most of my meat would be ruined. I honestly think its extremely dangerous when people are hunting on the ground and not firing into the ground from a treestand as well as wearing camo and having the woods green makes it hard to see through the leaves.
If it is legal I'm not going to argue over it. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.
Personally, I do not buy the unsafe argument though. Since deer hunters have been required to wear hunters orange there has been no decrease of hunting related shootings, it is obviously not working but hey it makes people feel safer.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 03:05:27 PM
It's unsafe.
And a turkey should never suffer the disgrace of being killed by a rifle, IMHO.
This. If you have a jake decoy out, I wouldn't want a guy over 100 yards away with a rifle not knowing I am sitting there. The hunter may or may not realize it's a deke. I wouldn't want to take that chance.
The second part of the statement is just as accurate. When you hunt these majestic birds with a rifle, you are completely missing the point of turkey hunting. It's about getting them close, hearing them drum, and feeling like your heart is gonna explode.
Try getting that feeling from shooting them 100 yards away with a rifle.
If they are hunting legal then they are legal. It is what it is.
I for one think that rifles have no place in turkey hunting.
I would say that if rifles are used, blaze orange should be required to be worn by all hunters. If the hunters of those states or counties don't like wearing orange to turkey hunt, then change the law to shotguns only.
Wild and Wonderful WV is the only state I get to hunt, and I too deal with turkey killers and rifles. I know its legal but to me, it just ain't right!!! Bushwackin a gobbler at 30 yds vs 100 yds is completely different, let alone calling one in tight! I accept the fact that some of it is tradition.....was it tradition for dove or duck guns to only hold three rounds, Or shot to be steel? If you want to shoot something at longer range....talk to a farmer they would love some help getting rid of groundhogs and if you want turkey that bad...walmart and kroger sell them every day!!!! I'm not judging anyone...I have to convince dad to leave his .222 at home every spring, but thats my two cents!! I however would rather see folks hunting turkeys with a rifle than a bow, again just my opinion....but you know what they say about opinions!!!
Quote from: chatterbox on March 25, 2013, 04:21:37 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 03:05:27 PM
It's unsafe.
And a turkey should never suffer the disgrace of being killed by a rifle, IMHO.
This. If you have a jake decoy out, I wouldn't want a guy over 100 yards away with a rifle not knowing I am sitting there. The hunter may or may not realize it's a deke. I wouldn't want to take that chance.
The second part of the statement is just as accurate. When you hunt these majestic birds with a rifle, you are completely missing the point of turkey hunting. It's about getting them close, hearing them drum, and feeling like your heart is gonna explode.
Try getting that feeling from shooting them 100 yards away with a rifle.
First I agree 100%! :agreed: But now I'm going to play devil's advocate and ask a single question. Then if it's "wrong" to stretch the distance with a rifle, why do we (and I use the term "we" as a general referance to the majority of turkey hunters) strive so hard to extend our range with special chokes, HTL loads that cost out the wazoo, rifle sights, and/or scopes, shooting sticks...
Just something to think about.
For me, the farther away the bird is, the less fun it is. To some folks, turkeys are just like any other animal to plink at long distance. To each his own, I guess. It's his tag to fill.
Quote from: 30_06 on March 25, 2013, 04:03:41 PM
If it is legal I'm not going to argue over it. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.
Personally, I do not buy the unsafe argument though. Since deer hunters have been required to wear hunters orange there has been no decrease of hunting related shootings, it is obviously not working but hey it makes people feel safer.
Not many people carry a 130" buck decoy in the fall unlike prob a big % of the turkey hunters in the spring that have a fluffed up gobbler and there sitting within close range of it on the ground and not a treestand. Big difference
Personally, I don't approve of rifles for hunting turkeys. That takes absolutely no skill whatsoever. No woodsmanship, no calling, no fooling the bird, nothing that makes this sport so great. Instead all it requires is spotting and shooting skills. I live for the experience of calling them up close and personal, being on the ground, in their house, and making them do what you want them to do. I've killed the vast majority of my birds at 20 yards or less. No rifles for me. I'll save that for deer hunting.
With that said, I always support that if it is legal, and it makes you happy, go for it.
I use to think rifles were only used by road hunters until I started hunting out of state and reading the rules and regs book. I just don't see any fun or challenge in killing a turkey out pass 40 yards. I've done it twice but prefer not to. I don't use a scope but I do have a "turkey choke" to ensure that I'm not going to hit as much meat as I would with a broader pattern. I'm not a meat hunter, as somebody has pointed out they are much cheaper at the store but I do love eating wild game. I don't knock anybody that uses any scopes or anything like that. Most of it has to do with how we were raised hunting. I would have to agree that it is dangerous to hunt them with a rifle. The use of decoys and camoflauge makes it dangerous. I don't deer hunt with a rifle, not only because I can't, but I don't shoot deer with a shotgun either. I much prefer a bow.
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on March 25, 2013, 06:15:57 PM
Personally, I don't approve of rifles for hunting turkeys. That takes absolutely no skill whatsoever. No woodsmanship, no calling, no fooling the bird, nothing that makes this sport so great. Instead all it requires is spotting and shooting skills. I live for the experience of calling them up close and personal, being on the ground, in their house, and making them do what you want them to do. I've killed the vast majority of my birds at 20 yards or less. No rifles for me. I'll save that for deer hunting.
With that said, I always support that if it is legal, and it makes you happy, go for it.
This is a great quote, good job.
I'm totally against any rifle for turkeys, spring or fall. Here in Pa. it is legal to use a rifle in the fall season. Have I done it? Yes. Will I do it again? Probably not. When I was was younger, I have shot the fall bird with a rifle. No more. I personally do not think it is safe, nor much of a sport. You might as well "tree trim em"!
I do hunt in WV and I enjoy it. I only hunt on private posted ground, even then I'm always watching my surroundings. Sitting a the base of a big ole' oak tree, all cammoed, calling, hmmmm. You'd never know what hit you.
Don't feel like taking a .233 anytime any place.
But that's just me!
Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.
Have some backbone, people.
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 25, 2013, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: 30_06 on March 25, 2013, 04:03:41 PM
If it is legal I'm not going to argue over it. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.
Personally, I do not buy the unsafe argument though. Since deer hunters have been required to wear hunters orange there has been no decrease of hunting related shootings, it is obviously not working but hey it makes people feel safer.
Not many people carry a 130" buck decoy in the fall unlike prob a big % of the turkey hunters in the spring that have a fluffed up gobbler and there sitting within close range of it on the ground and not a treestand. Big difference
My point is the fact that orange has done nothing for hunter safety since its become a requirement. Bad hunters still do not identify their target and what is beyond regardless of the weapon used or colors worn by hunters.
The unsafe argument in essence only applies to unsafe hunters and you can't regulate that with caliber and color restrictions. A hunter who is safe is going to identify his target, what is beyond, and its surroundings. That does not change regarding the species hunted.
As has been said, legal is legal.
BUT, I know I have had some GREAT hunts that ended with me coming out of the woods without a gobbler. Some hang up, others come in at a bad angle, hens lead them away, you know, the usual stuff. Would I have killed more birds if I hunted with a rifle, my guess would be yes!
But, the hunt is so much more than killing. For some reason I just cannot think about about getting a rush out of a 100 yard shot on a gobbler. I can barely motivate myself do use my rifle for deer hunting anymore. Again, I'm not judging, rifle hunting a turkey just is not for me.
To each his own, I guess.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 06:35:22 PM
Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.
Have some backbone, people.
Exactly what part should I be outraged about?
Why should turkeys not be shot with a rifle, but deer, bear, elk, antelope, etc. can and should be?
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 06:35:22 PM
Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.
Have some backbone, people.
Just hold on there. No one has the say as to whether or not it's right. Now it's nontraditional as far as most of us are concerned and that's where a lot of guys are drawing the line. That's the same as making a villain out of an AR 15 just because it looks like a "Army gun."
I wouldn't do it but I don't bait deer either, but dose that make it wrong to condition deer to a feed station or a food plot only to be waiting on them one day and Bamm! you shot one?
All I'm trying to say is don't make people or their practices, when and where leagal, out to be bad. If it efects you as a hunter and your in the majority then patetion the state to get it changed.
Quote from: chatterbox on March 25, 2013, 04:21:37 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 03:05:27 PM
It's unsafe.
And a turkey should never suffer the disgrace of being killed by a rifle, IMHO.
This. If you have a jake decoy out, I wouldn't want a guy over 100 yards away with a rifle not knowing I am sitting there. The hunter may or may not realize it's a deke. I wouldn't want to take that chance.
The second part of the statement is just as accurate. When you hunt these majestic birds with a rifle, you are completely missing the point of turkey hunting. It's about getting them close, hearing them drum, and feeling like your heart is gonna explode.
Try getting that feeling from shooting them 100 yards away with a rifle.
:agreed: 100%........
Legal is legal
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 05:07:09 PM
First I agree 100%! :agreed: But now I'm going to play devil's advocate and ask a single question. Then if it's "wrong" to stretch the distance with a rifle, why do we (and I use the term "we" as a general referance to the majority of turkey hunters) strive so hard to extend our range with special chokes, HTL loads that cost out the wazoo, rifle sights, and/or scopes, shooting sticks...
Just something to think about.
40 yards today is the same as 40 yards 50 years ago. All we've done with today's chokes, ammo, sights, etc is ensure we put "More" pellets in the head and neck at that distance and closer. Honestly we never even patterned shotguns 30 years ago, and still killed turkeys. Don't know how, as I've patterned a few of those older guns and man, they were bad! But some were sufficient, not as great as today, but any turkey inside 40 yards was dead as long as the hunter did his part. I'm just saying, answering the devil's question sort of speak. It has been the turkey hunter's quest to ensure a "Dead" turkey, not a wounded one once they hit that 40 yard marker. That isn't cheating, that is sound hunting practices. We want to make sure he is Dead! If you really want to play the Devil's advocate, perhaps all of us should use longbows with wooden arrows and flint broadheads. They were here first!! No, the shotguns of today has advanced and they pattern much better, are lighter, better sights than just a bead, etc, but 40 yards is 40 yards. And on this forum you can't talk about any shots over that, so that is the end of that.. We've just taken an old technology and made it perform better, but still within the accepted limits of the past.
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 06:35:22 PM
Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.
Have some backbone, people.
Just hold on there. No one has the say as to whether or not it's right. Now it's nontraditional as far as most of us are concerned and that's where a lot of guys are drawing the line. That's the same as making a villain out of an AR 15 just because it looks like a "Army gun."
I wouldn't do it but I don't bait deer either, but dose that make it wrong to condition deer to a feed station or a food plot only to be waiting on them one day and Bamm! you shot one?
All I'm trying to say is don't make people or their practices, when and where leagal, out to be bad. If it efects you as a hunter and your in the majority then patetion the state to get it changed.
And the answer I got from our regional biologist, who is also a member of the NWTF, is that the NRA would fight it as they consider the banning of rifles for the spring season as a form of "Gun Control" since it has been legal in our state for so many years. I don't want to be viewed as some idiot against gun ownership, because that is untrue. I'm all about the right to bear arms, so I am sort of lost as to what to do.
Now imagine that rifle hunter shooting a turkey at a 100 yards, one that he didn't call in, but ambushed, and it was a Jake!!! Does that make any difference?? It happened last year, and the guy talked like he really laid the smack down on one. Just saying..
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 06:35:22 PM
Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.
Have some backbone, people.
So if they don't agree with you, they have no backbone? Hmm.
Here's me having the back bone to say your comments were ignorant and short-sighted.
I have no problem with people shooting turkeys with a rifle. I shoot deer with a rifle, when I could call them in to bow range and shoot them with a bow. Never heard any back-lash from that. Maybe everyone thinks shooting deer with a rifle is wrong and they just don't have the "backbone" to tell me.
I do think, like I said, that shooting turkeys with a rifle in the spring with no one wearing blaze orange is unsafe.
i can't believe it's legal, anywhere, to shoot turkeys with centerfire rifles. it's very, very unsafe as turkey hunters where no orange, actively call and usually have decoys out in front of them, and hunt on the ground where a bullet can travel for miles. not even getting into the fact that it is not sporting at all to pop one 200 yards across a field without calling to and working a bird. i'll go ahead and judge them, i think they're inexperienced, dangerous hunters for even using and defending turkey hunting with a rifle. west virginia needs to get their game laws with the 21st century and realize just how dangerous it could be.
Quote from: Garrett Trentham on March 25, 2013, 08:04:32 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 06:35:22 PM
Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.
Have some backbone, people.
So if they don't agree with you, they have no backbone? Hmm.
Here's me having the back bone to say your comments were ignorant and short-sighted.
I have no problem with people shooting turkeys with a rifle. I shoot deer with a rifle, when I could call them in to bow range and shoot them with a bow. Never heard any back-lash from that. Maybe everyone thinks shooting deer with a rifle is wrong and they just don't have the "backbone" to tell me.
I do think, like I said, that shooting turkeys with a rifle in the spring with no one wearing blaze orange is unsafe.
and what's the difference between deer and turkey hunting with a rifle? turkey hunters are on the ground where bullets can travel a loooong ways, have decoys (both hen and jakes/gobblers) set up in front of them, and wear no orange. it's unsafe as hell.
So, what is the difference between these two scenerios:
You are in Texas hunting from a stand.
A deer walks out at 200 yards. You shoot him with your 270.
A long beard walks out at the same spot ten minutes later. You shoot him.
Everyone drools over the big buck you shot, you get it mounted.
Everyone gives you crap for shooting the turkey. You are ashamed you shot it.
WHY?
Quote from: 30_06 on March 25, 2013, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 25, 2013, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: 30_06 on March 25, 2013, 04:03:41 PM
If it is legal I'm not going to argue over it. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.
Personally, I do not buy the unsafe argument though. Since deer hunters have been required to wear hunters orange there has been no decrease of hunting related shootings, it is obviously not working but hey it makes people feel safer.
Not many people carry a 130" buck decoy in the fall unlike prob a big % of the turkey hunters in the spring that have a fluffed up gobbler and there sitting within close range of it on the ground and not a treestand. Big difference
My point is the fact that orange has done nothing for hunter safety since its become a requirement. Bad hunters still do not identify their target and what is beyond regardless of the weapon used or colors worn by hunters.
The unsafe argument in essence only applies to unsafe hunters and you can't regulate that with caliber and color restrictions. A hunter who is safe is going to identify his target, what is beyond, and its surroundings. That does not change regarding the species hunted.
True. I agree there's some unresponsible trigger happy people that shouldn't be allowed with a gun period.
I know! Let's talk about shooting a gobbler with a rifle over a pile of corn! :funnyturkey:
We need more turkey seasons to open! :deadhorse:
Rifles are legal in the fall in but I've never killed with one, though im not overly opposed to their use in the fall. Spring hunting is another thing. Number one being that in the fall big longbeards don't typically parade around and strut in open fields . For a guy with a .22-250 and a bipod it wouldnt be any different than blasting groundhogs . Just dont see a shred of sport in it . Of course some of the hillbillies in PA do just that even though it's highly illegal . >:(
Never shot one with a rifle and never will, for me it's all about calling one in and watching him do his dance. I could go up to where I grew up and kill one every year with a rifle in the fields behind my dads house, But he always told me turkeys hunters use shotguns turkey killers use rifle's. Not much to it when they are 150 yards away and don't know your their. if I had to kill one with a rifle to get one , I'd just go to walmart. But to each his own.
Turkey hunting is going sh!+ when the majority of hunters condone shooting them with rifles.
A few years ago, you wouldve logged on here and asked this question and the response would've been overwhelmingly disapproving of the practice.
Why don't we embrace roost shooting (legal in MANY places), shooting them over corn piles, and any other means that increases odds of success. "If it's legal, do it" is one of the most complacent, and ignorant justifications for tolerating it.
Shooting a turkey with a rifle is a disgrace and it's saddening to me that the most regal of game birds could ever be shot by someone in such an undignified manner.
Quote from: lumberjack on March 25, 2013, 05:01:47 PM
Wild and Wonderful WV is the only state I get to hunt, and I too deal with turkey killers and rifles. I know its legal but to me, it just ain't right!!! Bushwackin a gobbler at 30 yds vs 100 yds is completely different, let alone calling one in tight! I accept the fact that some of it is tradition.....was it tradition for dove or duck guns to only hold three rounds, Or shot to be steel? If you want to shoot something at longer range....talk to a farmer they would love some help getting rid of groundhogs and if you want turkey that bad...walmart and kroger sell them every day!!!! I'm not judging anyone...I have to convince dad to leave his .222 at home every spring, but thats my two cents!! I however would rather see folks hunting turkeys with a rifle than a bow, again just my opinion....but you know what they say about opinions!!!
That statement makes about as much sense as tits on a boar hog...care to explain? If your all about getting them in close and all that jazz, why not a bow? I fail to see your "logic"
doesnt seem like it would be as fun to shoot a turkey couple hundred yards :z-dizzy:
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 08:56:36 PM
Shooting a turkey with a rifle is a disgrace and it's saddening to me that the most regal of game birds could ever be shot by someone in such an undignified manner.
So, shooting them in the face with a bunch of little pellets is somehow more "dignified"?????? Really? Learn something new every day. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: By the way I'm not advocating rifles for turkeys but this statement is hilarious to me
Quote from: budtripp on March 25, 2013, 09:01:23 PM
So, shooting them in the face with a bunch of little pellets is somehow more "dignified"?????? Really? Learn something new every day. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: By the way I'm not advocating rifles for turkeys but this statement is hilarious to me
Hey is that a "Shotgun" in your profile picture??
Quote from: jblackburn on March 25, 2013, 08:40:13 PM
I know! Let's talk about shooting a gobbler with a rifle over a pile of corn! :funnyturkey:
We need more turkey seasons to open! :deadhorse:
amen.........
Quote from: budtripp on March 25, 2013, 08:56:53 PM
Quote from: lumberjack on March 25, 2013, 05:01:47 PM
Wild and Wonderful WV is the only state I get to hunt, and I too deal with turkey killers and rifles. I know its legal but to me, it just ain't right!!! Bushwackin a gobbler at 30 yds vs 100 yds is completely different, let alone calling one in tight! I accept the fact that some of it is tradition.....was it tradition for dove or duck guns to only hold three rounds, Or shot to be steel? If you want to shoot something at longer range....talk to a farmer they would love some help getting rid of groundhogs and if you want turkey that bad...walmart and kroger sell them every day!!!! I'm not judging anyone...I have to convince dad to leave his .222 at home every spring, but thats my two cents!! I however would rather see folks hunting turkeys with a rifle than a bow, again just my opinion....but you know what they say about opinions!!!
That statement makes about as much sense as tits on a boar hog...care to explain? If your all about getting them in close and all that jazz, why not a bow? I fail to see your "logic"
Tits on a boar hog do make sense....he is passing genetic info on to the gilts in the next litter he sires and the conformation of his teats may influence the ability of his offspring to raise their next litter!!!! I was only stating my opinion!!!! I was not raised with bow and arrow in hand so maybe its a trust / comfort thing...but its my opinion!!!!! I just have more faith in a rifle. Additionally, I have seen the change in the flight of an arrow after hitting a small twig, and don't like the feathers and feather shafts and wingbones that an arrow has to pass through as well as a the small size of the vitals to hit for a quick kill. The same of which could be said for some rifles! I did not say bows should not be used.....merely that I preferred rifles to them. I will turkey hunt as much as I can this year and not take either one! But again all my opinions!!!! I don't want to hijack this thread and argue about bows vs. guns....not my intent at all, so I apologize to wv curlytop
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 03:12:06 PM
Ok I've never knocked one over with a rifle, but in all reality how much more "unsafe" can it be than deer hunting. I know there is the Blaze factor, but other than that I don't get that argument. I personally have never felt the need to use a rifle but I'm not say'n I never will either.
I guess it's kinda like sushi, calamari, or caviar, don't knock it till you've tried it.
For one, the turkey hunters are on the ground and someone may just be right in the edge of a field or next to a road when someone decides to take a 150 yard shot and kill the hunter who is completely in cammo. A bullet passing through a turkey in the tree shot by a rifle will have a long way to go and could be dangerous a mile or more away. I have never shot a deer in the air and except for when Santa comes down for Christmas do not expect to see one. Ricochet can also happen when shooting over a relatively flat area . Rifles were once legal in Alabama but have been outlawed since the late 60s I believe.
Does anyone have any documentation of any kind where a hunter was shot by someone shooting a rifle at a turkey in a state where it is legal?
I personally know of one young man in WV who lost his life from a rimfire rifle bullet while turkey hunting. He was hunting in the fall, with people he knew. Freak accident, but tragic results none the less.
Quote from: jblackburn on March 25, 2013, 08:40:13 PM
...
We need more turkey seasons to open! :deadhorse:
No kidding! I've noticed the tension around here is unusually high about this time of year! Can't wait to suit up and chase some birds!
Here in Vermont, back in the olden days, a 20 caliber rifle was all you could use. Shooting a bird with a shotgun was an embaressment as I've been told. Kind of like shooting a turkey out a a tree. Legal, but frowned upon. An old guy I knew (he has passed) had a prized Win 43 in 25-20, and that was his turkey gun. When I started turkey hunting, he gave me all sorts of crap for the new 870 I bought, even though we can only use shotguns now.
Hunted Kadoka SD last May. Had a few oppertunities to take a bird with my .223. I refuse, because I wanted to call in my first SD bird, which I eventually did, to 35 yards, and then smoked him with my new 870.
Ive seen up close a turkey hunter killed with a Shotgun Slug ... to the head..... we also 3 years ago had a turkey hunter shot with a rimfire rifle in South Florida and left ...abandoned .....and we had a Florida turkey hunter shot dead by another in Florida with buckshot ,,,again dead ....
I am more than willing to drive any non believers personally to a certain cemetery and I will show you some names carved in granite --
Quote from: wvcurlytop on March 25, 2013, 09:07:59 PM
Quote from: budtripp on March 25, 2013, 09:01:23 PM
So, shooting them in the face with a bunch of little pellets is somehow more "dignified"?????? Really? Learn something new every day. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: By the way I'm not advocating rifles for turkeys but this statement is hilarious to me
Hey is that a "Shotgun" in your profile picture??
Why it sure is, did I ever say I hunted turkeys with a rifle? Nope I didn't, because I don't. I just find it really funny that someone thinks its more "dignified" to die by shotgun blast than by bullet or arrow. Like the turkey really cares :TooFunny: :OGturkeyhead:
So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.
I know of two people shot with rifles in Pa, Turkey hunters use shotguns or bows and call them in close to an effective range for thier weapon. The thrill of the hunt is getting them close and having them gobble and do the dance. Sometimes the reward of the hunt is not pulling the trigger, Some people hunt for differant reasons, If getting one is the only reason you hunt, than shooting one at 150 yards that don't even know you are there is ok, The bottom line is I hunt turkeys because I truly love to do It, not just to tell people I got one. The calling, them gobbling and doing the dance is all part of it. Shooting one in a field at long range doesn't do it for me. You are right shootng a deer at long range is know differant, but the reason I would do that is to put some vension in the freezer. not for the hunt.
I hunted with a riffle when I first started turkey hunting in 1968. There was no safety issue with it because there were not alot of turkey hunters. As I got older and learned how to call and get them in close I went to a shotgun and never looked back. To ME the sport of turkey hunting is calling them in close and killing them close, with a shotgun or bow. Last year my Dad about lost his right eye and had to have surgery on it. The doctor told him for no reason could he shoot a shotgun, that the recoil could make him loose his sight for good in that eye. Dad hunted with a 222 that had very little recoil. For a reason like that or other med. reason I have no problem with a riffle, but if you are healthy enough to shoot a shotgun thin to ME that is what I would use if not a bow. But I could never see why someone would put a scope on a shotgun either, unless they had bad eye sight. I might have to put a scope on my shotgun someday, I am diabetic and my eyes are slowly leaving me. But for ME I don't want one on MY shotgun. I am not saying they are wrong or right. To me if it is legal its not wrong but its not right. It amazes me that so many people will want to hear what you think and when someone makes a statement that other people don't like thin they want to get mad about it. All any of this stuff is what I and other people think and believe. Our beliefs does not make it right or wrong. It is just what one person thinks.
:OGturkeyhead: :OGturkeyhead:
Quote from: 30_06 on March 26, 2013, 12:07:13 AM
So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.
yeah, because this is such a large sample size of all the turkey hunters in the nation. come on now, i know statistics can be used to prove or disprove about anything, but let's be reasonable. this forum is not indicative of how dangerous a shotgun vs rifle is. here's just a little sample of virginia and west virginia. the people getting shot with shotguns are more, because more people carry shotguns.
http://ww2.roanoke.com//roatimes/news/story149124.html (http://ww2.roanoke.com//roatimes/news/story149124.html)
"Of 156 shotgun-related accidents since 1967, 13 were fatal. Of 17 rifle shootings, eight were fatal. That translates to the rifle fatality rate being 5.7 times higher than the shotgun fatality rate."
all this doesn't affect me one way or the other, as i live in sc and we're shotgun only (thank god, i couldn't even imagine some of these yahoos toting a rifle into the turkey woods). the only reason anyone would hunt with a rifle is because they're either too lazy or too unskilled to call one in close.
Quote from: 30_06 on March 26, 2013, 12:07:13 AM
So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.
I'm sure there are far more turkey hunters "accidentally" shot with shotguns, not because they are more dangerous, but because more turkey hunters use shotguns, there are more of them out there. If we are basing truth on this thread, I would infer that rifles are far more dangerous. Very few have said they actually hunt with a rifle, I havent added it up but we will use the number 5 as it should be close. A bunch have stated they use only a shotgun in five pages of posts, I'll guess that number is maybe 40. SO, 2 out of 5 with a rifle 40% or 2 out of 40, 5%. So based on whats presented like you are saying its 8 times more dangerous to hunt with a rifle!!!! Now there is no way this is even remotely accurate!! Basing real life (or death unfortunately) on a few pages of comments on a forum board is as inaccutate as claiming teats on a boar hog are worthless!!
Quote from: budtripp on March 25, 2013, 11:25:16 PM
Quote from: wvcurlytop on March 25, 2013, 09:07:59 PM
Quote from: budtripp on March 25, 2013, 09:01:23 PM
So, shooting them in the face with a bunch of little pellets is somehow more "dignified"?????? Really? Learn something new every day. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: By the way I'm not advocating rifles for turkeys but this statement is hilarious to me
Hey is that a "Shotgun" in your profile picture??
Why it sure is, did I ever say I hunted turkeys with a rifle? Nope I didn't, because I don't. I just find it really funny that someone thinks its more "dignified" to die by shotgun blast than by bullet or arrow. Like the turkey really cares :TooFunny: :OGturkeyhead:
Not saying you used rifles, but you made it sound terrible to use a shotgun, or as you put it to shoot one in the face with a whole bunch of pellets, that is all. I thought that was a little hypocritical when you actually had a pic of one. But let's not argue over it, I meant nothing by it. Thanks for explaining your stance on it. And you're right, a dead turkey is a dead turkey, we're only discussing the methods to get him there and everyone has their own opinions on the method to do it with.
I just personally feel as a sportsman, it is far more ethical, challenging and sporting to shoot one with a shotgun, which means I had to get him close, and not sniping him from a 100 yards or more. To me that is groundhog hunting, but again, that is my opinion. Some people with native American blood may think we're all cheating if we're using anything but a bow and arrow!!!!
As for Mr. Sneed's comment on scoped shotguns, I got started using them as a kid from an uncle who was diabetic and had failing eyesight, and when he took me hunting he insisted I use his gun. It grew on me, and I put one on my own shotgun and I love it. Did I do it in hopes of gaining his approval, perhaps to hear him say "That's my boy" or did I do it because the scope ensures you keep your head down and cheek on the stock and helping to eliminate shooting over his head when turkey fever hits you? How about BOTH!! Try a scope sometime, you may like it!
I think my point has been lost. Merely trying to show that the perceived danger of hunting turkeys with rifles is just that. Perceived, I have not seen any data either here or using google that shows it to actually be any more dangerous than hunting with a shotgun.
To sum up my feelings on this issue I would say if its legal then I don't really care. I'm still going to hunt with either a shotgun or a bow, not because of any perceived safety issues or because a turkey is so noble it shouldn't be killed with anything else. Merely because I enjoy the hunt better with one of those two weapons.
Quote from: wvcurlytop on March 25, 2013, 07:59:22 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 05:07:09 PM
First I agree 100%! :agreed: But now I'm going to play devil's advocate and ask a single question. Then if it's "wrong" to stretch the distance with a rifle, why do we (and I use the term "we" as a general referance to the majority of turkey hunters) strive so hard to extend our range with special chokes, HTL loads that cost out the wazoo, rifle sights, and/or scopes, shooting sticks...
Just something to think about.
40 yards today is the same as 40 yards 50 years ago. All we've done with today's chokes, ammo, sights, etc is ensure we put "More" pellets in the head and neck at that distance and closer. Honestly we never even patterned shotguns 30 years ago, and still killed turkeys. Don't know how, as I've patterned a few of those older guns and man, they were bad! But some were sufficient, not as great as today, but any turkey inside 40 yards was dead as long as the hunter did his part. I'm just saying, answering the devil's question sort of speak. It has been the turkey hunter's quest to ensure a "Dead" turkey, not a wounded one once they hit that 40 yard marker. That isn't cheating, that is sound hunting practices. We want to make sure he is Dead! If you really want to play the Devil's advocate, perhaps all of us should use longbows with wooden arrows and flint broadheads. They were here first!! No, the shotguns of today has advanced and they pattern much better, are lighter, better sights than just a bead, etc, but 40 yards is 40 yards. And on this forum you can't talk about any shots over that, so that is the end of that.. We've just taken an old technology and made it perform better, but still within the accepted limits of the past.
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 25, 2013, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 25, 2013, 06:35:22 PM
Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.
Have some backbone, people.
Just hold on there. No one has the say as to whether or not it's right. Now it's nontraditional as far as most of us are concerned and that's where a lot of guys are drawing the line. That's the same as making a villain out of an AR 15 just because it looks like a "Army gun."
I wouldn't do it but I don't bait deer either, but dose that make it wrong to condition deer to a feed station or a food plot only to be waiting on them one day and Bamm! you shot one?
All I'm trying to say is don't make people or their practices, when and where leagal, out to be bad. If it efects you as a hunter and your in the majority then patetion the state to get it changed.
And the answer I got from our regional biologist, who is also a member of the NWTF, is that the NRA would fight it as they consider the banning of rifles for the spring season as a form of "Gun Control" since it has been legal in our state for so many years. I don't want to be viewed as some idiot against gun ownership, because that is untrue. I'm all about the right to bear arms, so I am sort of lost as to what to do.
Now imagine that rifle hunter shooting a turkey at a 100 yards, one that he didn't call in, but ambushed, and it was a Jake!!! Does that make any difference?? It happened last year, and the guy talked like he really laid the smack down on one. Just saying..
OK In response to the first quote I'm not taking issue with the use of rifles. I wouldn't hunt with one, It's not my thing. I do build turkey calls...I want to call them...it's my kicks and giggles...I want them close and then I want to feed them lead to the head!
Another thing is I will never believe that anyone goes to the trouble of setting up a turkey gun especially a 3.5 12 gauge, just to ensure a 40 yard pattern. Just because we don't discuss it around here doesn't change the fact...Remember "fudge factor"
As far as the NWTF and NRA are concerned, you need to start educating folks instead of attacking their way of hunting ie their traditions.
Safety? You bet I don't for one second disagree that it has a genuine safety issue but at the same time that's an individual disicion that we shouldn't try to mandate our beliefs on others.
And the fella that poped the jake...Was it legal? Was he proud of it? Then yes he did do something and far be it from me to belittle another hunter over his chose to harvest a legal game animal.
To me it seems to be very prevalent in your post that it's your opinion is the right and only way, and there are no other ways. I myself believe that some things are written in stone but most things aren't. I think outside the box, because a box is a trap and a trap is a dangerous place.
btw we're still friends.
Quote from: 30_06 on March 26, 2013, 10:38:12 AM
I think my point has been lost. Merely trying to show that the perceived danger of hunting turkeys with rifles is just that. Perceived, I have not seen any data either here or using google that shows it to actually be any more dangerous than hunting with a shotgun.
To sum up my feelings on this issue I would say if its legal then I don't really care. I'm still going to hunt with either a shotgun or a bow, not because of any perceived safety issues or because a turkey is so noble it shouldn't be killed with anything else. Merely because I enjoy the hunt better with one of those two weapons.
did you not read my post? rifle fatalities in va and wv are 5.7 times higher then shotgun. i posted a link and everything.
If they allowed rifles in the state I hunt I wouldn't ever hunt public, and i would never use any kind of decoys. In my mind its wayyy more dangerous and completely unnecessary
In the past, the general opinion on this forum has been that it is unsafe and unethical.
I don't care about general opinions. I miss using my 22 magnum since they outlawed rifles on public land in Fla. I killed a few with it and most where within easy shotgun range. I never was worried about getting shot any more than if I was squirle hunting. I think the unsafe arguement was used to outlaw them, because folks thought it was unethical. Both my kids killed there first turkeys with a rifle at close range, because of recoil.
Quote from: wvcurlytop on March 25, 2013, 02:18:21 PM
the turkey hunters use shotguns, and the turkey killers use rifles.
I unfortunately live in a state where they are legal. Put the whole safety factor aside Anyone can shoot them with a rifle there is absolutely NO sport in shooting them and that is all you are doing with a rifle is shooting them you are not hunting them.
:agreed:
Quote from: 30_06 on March 26, 2013, 12:07:13 AM
So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.
let me elaborate more clearly -- In Florida , we have had about 4 fatal turkey hunting incidents -- none of them were perpetuated with the use of a shot gun with bird shot , none
All of them had two things in common , a idiot was behind the trigger, and they were not using bird shot-- that statement can't be twisted in any other tangent IMO
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 26, 2013, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: 30_06 on March 26, 2013, 12:07:13 AM
So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.
let me elaborate more clearly -- In Florida , we have had about 4 fatal turkey hunting incidents -- none of them were perpetuated with the use of a shot gun with bird shot , none
All of them had two things in common , a idiot was behind the trigger, and they were not using bird shot-- that statement can't be twisted in any other tangent IMO
That sums it all up right there.
In every state there is all kinds of differing regulations , they all have purposes but the safety related ones are designed as hurdles for where a idiot can't pass beyond or won't bother - hunter safety , weapons restrictions and so on
As a group we are better off isolating and removing these types from the group for personal safety , the rules the better IMO
I'm in disbelief that it's actually legal to hunt spring turkey with a rifle. I'm with vaturkstomper on this - how can you be proud of your turkey that you killed from 150 yds while he's munchin on some grasshoppers? I'm from Indiana so we can't even hunt deer with rifle here but I understand there's thicker/more woods and hills but it seems extremely unsafe and unsportsmanlike to me. I personally wouldn't want to be sitting 30 yds behind a decoy in complete camo!!
Vaturkstomper is right - just bc it's legal don't make it right. It's legal for me to walk under a roosted turkey and blast him outa the tree too but I'm not going to do it.
I'm not afraid to hurt someones feelings. Hunting turkeys with a rifle aint turkey hunting.
Quote from: Shaw24 on March 26, 2013, 12:23:07 PM
I'm in disbelief that it's actually legal to hunt spring turkey with a rifle. I'm with vaturkstomper on this - how can you be proud of your turkey that you killed from 150 yds while he's munchin on some grasshoppers? I'm from Indiana so we can't even hunt deer with rifle here but I understand there's thicker/more woods and hills but it seems extremely unsafe and unsportsmanlike to me. I personally wouldn't want to be sitting 30 yds behind a decoy in complete camo!!
Vaturkstomper is right - just bc it's legal don't make it right. It's legal for me to walk under a roosted turkey and blast him outa the tree too but I'm not going to do it.
:icon_thumright:
Quote from: ziggy on March 26, 2013, 11:03:55 AM
did you not read my post? rifle fatalities in va and wv are 5.7 times higher then shotgun. i posted a link and everything.
Your post said
QuoteOf 156 shotgun-related accidents since 1967, 13 were fatal. Of 17 rifle shootings, eight were fatal
Your post just told me that rifle hunters are safer because only 17 were involved in any kind of shooting with only eight being fatal, while there were 13 fatalities and 156 shotgun related shooting instances. No matter how you cut it more people were shot, and killed by shotguns.
Why are so many people shooting each other with shotguns? Are you saying shotguns are safer because more people are shot with them?
Or is it because more people are shot by them, but a lower percentage that are shot with them die?
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 26, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
To me it seems to be very prevalent in your post that it's your opinion is the right and only way, and there are no other ways. I myself believe that some things are written in stone but most things aren't. I think outside the box, because a box is a trap and a trap is a dangerous place.btw we're still friends.
That's sort of how I read into your post!!! I'm far from right about much of anything, but I have my beliefs, values, and morals just like the next guy.
Okay, you don't hunt with a rifle, and believe in calling in your birds-Great. Here is what happened to me in 1998. My buddy and I was calling in a bird and he was still a little over a 80 or so yards away, but was coming. It was to the point we were all geared up for the shot, just keep coming was what we were thinking, when all of a sudden KABOOM!! Here a guy, who also had permission to hunt the same place shot the bird in front of us. We, of course were furious, and went down there and the guy was on the next ridge when he shot! About 100 or so yards.. It was a nice shot, no doubt, but what the crap.. Is that turkey hunting?? No, he didn't do anything but sneak around until he got to where he could watch that ridge where the bird was gobbling and shot it when he saw it. He said he thought we were hens calling!! He apologized for it, and to this day I tell him he still owes me a turkey!
2009, hunting state ground and had a gobbler coming. He was just a little too far for our shotguns, NO FUDGE FACTOR either, when KABOOM!! Down goes the gobbler and here comes the guy, with his rifle to claim his prize. Again, nice shot, but that isn't turkey hunting. That is turkey shooting!! Now with the decoys they have today, and man they look real, what if we would have had one of them out and had it setting too close to us and some rifle hunter is just sneaking looking for the bird?? Safety is a big issue, but to this day rifle hunters has really left a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to shooting turkeys. I am always waiting for the boom, and let me tell you it is depressing to have it happen to you! I've dealt with it twice, and that is enough in my lifetime.. Perhaps you will get the chance to experience it someday. You'll see then.. You hunt for the thrill and for the hunt, and I love the smell of gunpowder from my shotgun too. Where we hunt you may only get one or two chances a year to kill a bird, and to have one shot out from in front of you really gets to me. If that is attacking other's beliefs or whatever, so be it..
We could have a lot of fun together!! Imagine those conversations!!
Just don't come toting a rifle as that isn't turkey hunting.
I've enjoyed reading ALL of the posts! Even the defensive responses..
I've never hunted turkeys with a rifle. I have a cousin-in-law that will be doing that this spring tho.
He hunts Rios in S. Texas and due to a January shoulder surgery, it's a legal way for him to hunt them this year.
He did say he would keep his shots to the 40 yard range, just like his shotgun, to keep it sporting.
Quote from: wvcurlytop on March 26, 2013, 02:51:15 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 26, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
To me it seems to be very prevalent in your post that it's your opinion is the right and only way, and there are no other ways. I myself believe that some things are written in stone but most things aren't. I think outside the box, because a box is a trap and a trap is a dangerous place.btw we're still friends.
That's sort of how I read into your post!!! I'm far from right about much of anything, but I have my beliefs, values, and morals just like the next guy.
Okay, you don't hunt with a rifle, and believe in calling in your birds-Great. Here is what happened to me in 1998. My buddy and I was calling in a bird and he was still a little over a 80 or so yards away, but was coming. It was to the point we were all geared up for the shot, just keep coming was what we were thinking, when all of a sudden KABOOM!! Here a guy, who also had permission to hunt the same place shot the bird in front of us. We, of course were furious, and went down there and the guy was on the next ridge when he shot! About 100 or so yards.. It was a nice shot, no doubt, but what the crap.. Is that turkey hunting?? No, he didn't do anything but sneak around until he got to where he could watch that ridge where the bird was gobbling and shot it when he saw it. He said he thought we were hens calling!! He apologized for it, and to this day I tell him he still owes me a turkey!
2009, hunting state ground and had a gobbler coming. He was just a little too far for our shotguns, NO FUDGE FACTOR either, when KABOOM!! Down goes the gobbler and here comes the guy, with his rifle to claim his prize. Again, nice shot, but that isn't turkey hunting. That is turkey shooting!! Now with the decoys they have today, and man they look real, what if we would have had one of them out and had it setting too close to us and some rifle hunter is just sneaking looking for the bird?? Safety is a big issue, but to this day rifle hunters has really left a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to shooting turkeys. I am always waiting for the boom, and let me tell you it is depressing to have it happen to you! I've dealt with it twice, and that is enough in my lifetime.. Perhaps you will get the chance to experience it someday. You'll see then.. You hunt for the thrill and for the hunt, and I love the smell of gunpowder from my shotgun too. Where we hunt you may only get one or two chances a year to kill a bird, and to have one shot out from in front of you really gets to me. If that is attacking other's beliefs or whatever, so be it..
We could have a lot of fun together!! Imagine those conversations!!
Just don't come toting a rifle as that isn't turkey hunting.
I've enjoyed reading ALL of the posts! Even the defensive responses..
Hey man I said it before it's not for me. The thing that got me was people saying it's not right because it's not what they do. The safety factor is real. Trust me I hunt a lot of public land here in OK and I wouldn't want these guys running around with rifles while I'm out there. I'll also concede that the aspect of head shooting a turkey with a rifle is just that. It's hitting a highly mobile golf ball sized object with a small bore centerfire rifle. It's not the purest form of turkey hunting but a marriage of hunting and shooting. That said, I don't begrudge anyone who hunts with a rifle.
Who know one day we may share a turkey camp and you could show this Sooner how to duck behind a tree when those West Virgina Mountaineers come along. ;D:lol:
I understand the argument against spring turkey hunting with a rifle for the safety concerns.
What I don't understand is why so many consider anyone ever shooting a turkey with a rifle unethical.
I'm sure many of the same guys that are opposed to shooting turkeys at 100+ yards with a rifle, shoot deer from further than that every fall. What gives?
I have shot deer with rifles at long distances. Now, when I deer hunt, I either use a bow or slug gun, nothing beyond 150 and rarely anything beyond 75-80yds. I will on occasion shoot a doe with a rifle from greater distances if I need meat, same as I would shoot a hen at long distances with a rifle in the fall season if I needed meat. What is it that makes shooting a deer with a rifle at long distances okay, but not turkeys?
I agree, there are much more exciting and sporting ways to harvest longbeards in the spring, and I don't ever see myself shooting a gobbler in the spring with a rifle. But if someone wants to shoot a turkey in the fall with a rifle, I see no problem with that.
Maybe someone can clue me in on what I'm missing.
Quote from: 30_06 on March 26, 2013, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: ziggy on March 26, 2013, 11:03:55 AM
did you not read my post? rifle fatalities in va and wv are 5.7 times higher then shotgun. i posted a link and everything.
Your post said QuoteOf 156 shotgun-related accidents since 1967, 13 were fatal. Of 17 rifle shootings, eight were fatal
Your post just told me that rifle hunters are safer because only 17 were involved in any kind of shooting with only eight being fatal, while there were 13 fatalities and 156 shotgun related shooting instances. No matter how you cut it more people were shot, and killed by shotguns.
Why are so many people shooting each other with shotguns? Are you saying shotguns are safer because more people are shot with them?
Or is it because more people are shot by them, but a lower percentage that are shot with them die?
it's because there are many, many more people using shotguns then rifles.
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Quote from: Garrett Trentham on March 26, 2013, 04:18:07 PM
I understand the argument against spring turkey hunting with a rifle for the safety concerns.
What I don't understand is why so many consider anyone ever shooting a turkey with a rifle unethical.
I'm sure many of the same guys that are opposed to shooting turkeys at 100+ yards with a rifle, shoot deer from further than that every fall. What gives?
I have shot deer with rifles at long distances. Now, when I deer hunt, I either use a bow or slug gun, nothing beyond 150 and rarely anything beyond 75-80yds. I will on occasion shoot a doe with a rifle from greater distances if I need meat, same as I would shoot a hen at long distances with a rifle in the fall season if I needed meat. What is it that makes shooting a deer with a rifle at long distances okay, but not turkeys?
I agree, there are much more exciting and sporting ways to harvest longbeards in the spring, and I don't ever see myself shooting a gobbler in the spring with a rifle. But if someone wants to shoot a turkey in the fall with a rifle, I see no problem with that.
Maybe someone can clue me in on what I'm missing.
I can't for the life of me think of an argument for you.. Haha, first time I'm sort of speechless. I am a bowhunter at heart when it comes to deer hunting. I love the peace and solitude bowhunting offers me, and you just see deer act normal. I do rifle hunt, but I tend to enjoy the fellowship and the family get togethers and all the lies being told more so than the hunt itself. I rifle hunted first in my life, thus it is sort of tradition to rifle hunt for deer. I either kill a nice buck with a rifle, or none at all. I do shoot some of those pesky does, and have never thought about the difference between deer and turkeys when it comes to shooting them with a rifle. Perhaps you've opened up my mind just a little..
I don't consider it "Unethical" shooting them with a rifle, not like I would consider those that bait turkeys, but I do somewhat see if as an unfair advantage, and not near as challenging as it is with a shotgun. You've asked a very good question, and one I have no answer for.. Maybe someone can offer some insight on it, or perhaps I will think of one later. Maybe I just think a gobbler deserves to die a closer death, if that makes sense.. And I know Budtripp, dead is dead..
I saw one post from some lumberjack who opposed bows for turkeys.. All I can say is that those that bowhunt them are really after a challenge, at least here in WV.. On TV it looks easy, but bring those popup blinds to these allegheny mountains and lug it around some, and you'll find a reason to leave it home the next day, at least I would. Of course I prefer to run and gun, and blinds don't fit my style, so that probably has some bearing on my decision with blinds. I've killed one turkey with my bow, and I can honestly say I got shook up and was lucky to hit it. If you bowhunt turkeys and kill them consistently, :theman:!!!
And Cash, go whip your dead horse else where if we bother you, Just saying...
Quote from: Gooserbat on March 26, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
Who know one day we may share a turkey camp and you could show this Sooner how to duck behind a tree when those West Virgina Mountaineers come along. ;D:lol:
Sounds like fun, if you ever get up this way drop me a line.. We'll hopefully avoid the tree ducking and spend more time doing the head stomp!!
[quote
And Cash, go whip your dead horse else where if we bother you, Just saying...
[/quote]
I'd be happy to whip the (http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab192/strutzone18/B86E8DC9-CBBC-4735-A35F-9075474BA8C5-6853-000002FDF1B80F4B.jpg) if you'd like.
Ive been an advocate for any legal hunting means that follows the rules and regs set forth by each state. A fight against hunting, no matter what the means, is exactly that, a fight against hunting. With that being said, I choose to hunt birds with shotgun or bow only, just my particular choice.
Uh oh..the BAN button.......thats like breaking out the .22-250 for one 300 yds away that doesn't like your calling!!!! :lol: JUST KIDDING!!!!!!! To each their own!!!! I have enjoyed this thread....everyone is entitled to their opinions!!! I know some are tired of hearing the arguements BUT some were unaware this is even an issue in some states, so it has been an educational thread for those who took it with an open mind! I appreciate the moderators letting it go this long!!! :thanks:
Quote from: ziggy on March 26, 2013, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: 30_06 on March 26, 2013, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: ziggy on March 26, 2013, 11:03:55 AM
did you not read my post? rifle fatalities in va and wv are 5.7 times higher then shotgun. i posted a link and everything.
Your post said QuoteOf 156 shotgun-related accidents since 1967, 13 were fatal. Of 17 rifle shootings, eight were fatal
Your post just told me that rifle hunters are safer because only 17 were involved in any kind of shooting with only eight being fatal, while there were 13 fatalities and 156 shotgun related shooting instances. No matter how you cut it more people were shot, and killed by shotguns.
Why are so many people shooting each other with shotguns? Are you saying shotguns are safer because more people are shot with them?
Or is it because more people are shot by them, but a lower percentage that are shot with them die?
it's because there are many, many more people using shotguns then rifles.
It is an assumption that more people use a shotgun, maybe even a valid one, but either way more people died from shotguns than from rifles.
I was about to comment that rifle shooting gobblers seems incredibly unsporting but then I recalled the English tower pheasant shoot I participated in. One of the most unsporting but incredibly fun things I've ever done with a shotgun.
Quote from: heathwesley on March 26, 2013, 01:07:32 PM
I'm not afraid to hurt someones feelings. Hunting turkeys with a rifle aint turkey hunting.
x2