It is just now warm enough in PA to go outside and shoot, and this past weekend I went out to pattern my gun. I have the rem. 870 predator/turkey with shurshot grip, truglo red dot sight, the hevi-13 hevi shot choke tube, and I shot federal turkey thugs and Winchester supremes, both 3 1/2" #6 shot.
First, I shot at 20 yards with a small game load....dead on
Next, shot at 20 with the turkey thugs.....dead on
Moved out to 40 yards with turkey thugs.....20 hits in 10" ring, densest part of pattern was 6 inches low and 3 inches right.
Adjusted the red dot and shot again at 40......increased to about 60 hits in 10" circle.
Shot the Winchester supremes at 40.....approximately same amount of hits, but the densest part of pattern was off a little.
This was only a preliminary trip to knock the rust off and waste some ammo, but I don't like that I only got 60 hits at 40 yards.
Where do I even begin to start getting a better pattern?
Is it hurting me that my choke tube is for hevi shot and I'm not using that ammo?
At this point, I don't think that buying expensive ammo will help. I think I have a more fundamental problem, but I don't really know.
I need help, I hope I'm doing something wrong that's easy to fix, because I feel like I'm miles away from most of the guys and their patterns on here.
Appreciate any/all help fellas!
It sounds like the choke may be blowing your pattern, find something a little less tight.
Buy some Hevi-Shot #7's. Your choke is made by the makers of Hevi-Shot.
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Give the choke that came with the gun a try. It works great for me.
No that choke is fine to shoot lead through. how big of a target are you shooting at? I use 30"X30" paper. I would also try the choke that came with the gun and see how the pattern looks. If all else fails try some H-13. My 870 like a tighter choke with lead, .655 kicks or even better the Rem. Ventilator choke.
Quote from: 01Foreman400 on March 24, 2013, 08:19:34 PM
Buy some Hevi-Shot #7's. Your choke is made by the makers of Hevi-Shot.
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:agreed:
Remington Ventilators work well in yer rig for LEAD...
From what I have read the 3" turkey thugs are patterning better than the 3.5" overall. Good luck!
You are shooting and then drawing your 10" circle around the densest part aren't you?
Nobody is drawing a circle and shooting at its center to come up with these 200+ counts.
Using lead on any of these loads at 40 yards 110 + is pretty good, 140s or so is exceptional .
I always assume you draw the 10in FIRST and then shoot. That is way I always do it.. got 216 last week.
Quote from: RAJ on March 25, 2013, 10:47:23 AM
You are shooting and then drawing your 10" circle around the densest part aren't you?
Nobody is drawing a circle and shooting at its center to come up with these 200+ counts.
Using lead on any of these loads at 40 yards 110 + is pretty good, 140s or so is exceptional .
I draw a small 3" circle that I shoot at, and like I said I had to move my sight to get the densest part of the pattern to move up and right. To be honest though, I was only counting the hits in a 10" circle around my point of aim, and there were about 50-60 hits. Even so, I think the densest part of the pattern only had 70-80 hits in it, which is better but still not what it should be.
I'm going to give the gun a thorough cleaning this week. Unfortunately, we just got 5 inches of snow last night/this morning here in PA, so I don't know when I'll be able to go out and shoot again.
If I can get to 100 hits, I'll be more than satisfied, I just figured there might be something easy I'm not doing since my counts were so low.
I'm definitely trying the choke that came with it too, but I'll be a little pissed if I bought that hevi-shot choke for 50 bucks and it doesn't produce any better results. I guess that's life though.
Quote from: cntrlPAlngbrds on March 25, 2013, 11:10:39 AM
I'm definitely trying the choke that came with it too, but I'll be a little pissed if I bought that hevi-shot choke for 50 bucks and it doesn't produce any better results. I guess that's life though.
I'll help you if you will listen. If you don't, then you'll be back where you were.
We'll do this the cheapest way possible.
First I would recommend you to order some Hevi-13 #7's from either Rogers Sporting Goods, Midway USA, or Midsouth Shooters Supply. I think they all had them in stock last time I checked a few days ago. If your gun is chambered for 3.5", I would go that route and get them. From what I have seen, the heavier payload will only mean denser patterns. I would buy at least 2 boxes. You'll probably end up shooting a couple to test. Don't forget you'll get $20 back on rebates if you use them from Hevi-Shot.
Then I would buy the Rem Vetnilator .655 turkey choke. Pay no mind to the lead only on the side of th choke. It will cost you right at $24 to your door.
Here's where you can get the choke.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/956890.htm
You can thank me later.
Now once you do this, I want you to get some big sheets of cardboard and I do mean big like at least 30" long and wide and bigger would only be better. You'll need about say 4 of these just to be on the safe side. Then tape measure off 40yds from tip of your choke to cardboard. Now either put a sticker in the middle or tape a turkey taget to the cardboard. After you shoot your shot, then draw a 10" circle around the densest part of your pattern. Hopefully it will hit about dead center, but if way off then either use adjustable sights or dot sight or scope to move so your point of impact is centered over your point of aim. With that choke and the 2..25oz #7's, I wouldn't doubt one bit that you will see patterns in around the 300 mark or so. But after you find your densest pattern part of the pattern then draw a 20" circle and count those numbers as well. 500 or more shot from that load inside the 20" is what you are looking for in the 2.25oz load if your gun will shoot 3.5" shells. I'm gonna say 520 would be about right.
Quote from: FL-Boss on March 25, 2013, 10:51:34 AM
I always assume you draw the 10in FIRST and then shoot. That is way I always do it.. got 216 last week.
The only problem with that if you are playing the "numbers game" is that the densest part of your pattern might not be 100% in the pre-drawn 10 inch circle. If you just want to make sure your gun is hitting, shooting at pre-drawn circles is fine. Your gun might be hitting just about perfect, but chances are if you tried to draw another 10" circle on that pattern now, after the shot, you could probably find an area that had more hits than that 216. I'm not guaranteeing it, but it might be worth a shot if you were curious. I know myself, I have drawn 3 different 10" circles on one pattern before trying to find the absolute densest part of the pattern.
I see... yes I'm sure I could redraw that circle after the shot and get some more. But I'm not to concerned about the numbers game (as long as they stay above 200) more the overall pattern and POA being correct....since it does change with every choke / load.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. The first link I'll let you click it. It was shot with my 870 3" chambered gun using Hevi-13 3" 2oz #7's with the .655 Ventilator choke. That's the backside of the target so you can better see the pattern. There was 282 shot in the 10". That was the very first shot fired out of that brand new choke. I'm almost certain on it. The 20" numbers could of been a little better, but that 10" is your killing part of your pattern. Not bad at all for $24 shipped to your door choke.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF0087_Large_.jpg
Here's another so you can see from the same load and a MAD Super Max .675 choke from the front side. And for a 3" shell, you won't get much better than this. At least I have't seen it. That's a killer 10" and 20" pattern.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF00185.jpg)
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 25, 2013, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: cntrlPAlngbrds on March 25, 2013, 11:10:39 AM
I'm definitely trying the choke that came with it too, but I'll be a little pissed if I bought that hevi-shot choke for 50 bucks and it doesn't produce any better results. I guess that's life though.
I'll help you if you will listen. If you don't, then you'll be back where you were.
We'll do this the cheapest way possible.
First I would recommend you to order some Hevi-13 #7's from either Rogers Sporting Goods, Midway USA, or Midsouth Shooters Supply. I think they all had them in stock last time I checked a few days ago. If your gun is chambered for 3.5", I would go that route and get them. From what I have seen, the heavier payload will only mean denser patterns. I would buy at least 2 boxes. You'll probably end up shooting a couple to test. Don't forget you'll get $20 back on rebates if you use them from Hevi-Shot.
Then I would buy the Rem Vetnilator .655 turkey choke. Pay no mind to the lead only on the side of th choke. It will cost you right at $24 to your door.
Here's where you can get the choke.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/956890.htm
You can thank me later.
I feel like I should be able to get up to 100 hits though without switching to the heav-13 #7.
I do agree with your advice that using hevi-shot 7's should certainly get my count up substantially, but I think I need to get a good/decent pattern (approx. 100 hits) with cheaper turkey loads and then switch to hevi-shot to get to a really good pattern (150+ hits)
I think my plan of attack will be the following:
-Clean the crap out of my barrel
-Try the hevi-shot choke again
-Try the choke that came with the gun
-If I'm still not getting what I want, buy/try the ventilator choke
-If all else fails, go straight to the hevi-shot #7's
Sound reasonable?
Clean the barrel , then shoot #7 HEVI and watch your problems disappear. You can chase the issue, or just shoot the #7's and be done with it..
Quote from: cntrlPAlngbrds on March 25, 2013, 01:03:29 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 25, 2013, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: cntrlPAlngbrds on March 25, 2013, 11:10:39 AM
I'm definitely trying the choke that came with it too, but I'll be a little pissed if I bought that hevi-shot choke for 50 bucks and it doesn't produce any better results. I guess that's life though.
I'll help you if you will listen. If you don't, then you'll be back where you were.
We'll do this the cheapest way possible.
First I would recommend you to order some Hevi-13 #7's from either Rogers Sporting Goods, Midway USA, or Midsouth Shooters Supply. I think they all had them in stock last time I checked a few days ago. If your gun is chambered for 3.5", I would go that route and get them. From what I have seen, the heavier payload will only mean denser patterns. I would buy at least 2 boxes. You'll probably end up shooting a couple to test. Don't forget you'll get $20 back on rebates if you use them from Hevi-Shot.
Then I would buy the Rem Vetnilator .655 turkey choke. Pay no mind to the lead only on the side of th choke. It will cost you right at $24 to your door.
Here's where you can get the choke.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/956890.htm
You can thank me later.
I feel like I should be able to get up to 100 hits though without switching to the heav-13 #7.
I do agree with your advice that using hevi-shot 7's should certainly get my count up substantially, but I think I need to get a good/decent pattern (approx. 100 hits) with cheaper turkey loads and then switch to hevi-shot to get to a really good pattern (150+ hits)
I think my plan of attack will be the following:
-Clean the crap out of my barrel
-Try the hevi-shot choke again
-Try the choke that came with the gun
-If I'm still not getting what I want, buy/try the ventilator choke
-If all else fails, go straight to the hevi-shot #7's
Sound reasonable?
No offense, but your already trying to offer your own advise rather than take it from others who are trying to help you. So you do what you want.
Why not have your cake and eat it too?
7's will work, but a better shooting choke will make about as much difference as probably switching to the 7's.
So do the math, and make the wise choice.
Why settle for let's say 200 hits when you can have 300 instead?
The rest is up to you. I done all I could. And I hope I didn't waste my effort.
I think I may not have made my goal very clear at the beginning. So, what I really want is to get a pattern that I feel ethical/confident with (100-150 hits) without spending $4-$6 per shotshell. It is a little out of my means to spend $60-$80 on shells and go blow them away at the range in 30 mins.
My current pattern (50-70 hits) makes me feel a little uncomfortable, and I want to get up to a comfortable middle of the road (100-150 hits) pattern. At this time, it is not my goal to get 200-300 hits out of my gun, I wish I could do that, but it's not a realistic for me right now.
If, however, I try a few things and still cannot get an acceptable pattern, I will try the Hevi-13 #7's, because I will not go back out in the woods without confidence in a good pattern. No matter the cost.
Sorry if I am ignoring your guys' advice a little bit, I'm not trying to be ignorant, and I know you guys are right, but I just have slightly different goals right now.
Thanks.
Now I see, and I didn't mean to be rude. But so many want advice but never take it or buy what wasn't even given in the advice only to ask more advice later on. Oh the circle of life I call it. LOL! It does get a little aggravating trying to help someone that doesn't want to help themself by listening.
I have shot the Undertaker chokes. They are pretty good with lead typically. I don't shoot lead anymore. So you might want to go with what guys are saying about the Federal Turkey Thugs. Try the #6 loads in 3" or 3.5 if your gun will shoot them. And do what I told you above. You might want to try polishing your barrel, but that is up to you. There is a sticky here on how to do it and what you will need.
I don't know your money situation, but I will say this from what I have learned by throwing tons of money away over the years in shooting and buying chokes and shotgun shells. Buying the good stuff now and paying a little more will put you money ahead instead of having to tinker buying here and there to get where you could of been all along. Food for thought. Now this was sort of a hobby for me, so I had fun blowing money doing what I have done over the years. But I can personally tell you that Hevi-13 #7's will in fact give you the most densest patterns from any current factory made store bought ammo other than NITROS regardless of who tells you different. Good chokes will only make it shoot that much tighter as well. And not every good choke has to cost a lot of money. That Ventilator choke for the money will perform as well if not better than a lot of your higher dollar chokes in Rem barrels from what I have seen.
Good luck on your quest.
The reason for shooting at a large piece of cardboard at a small target on it is to find the densest part of the pattern. If you don't care about #s, then don't count em. Draw a 10 inch circle around the densest part and move your sights to make the densest part of the pattern hit what you are aiming at. I know this kind of stuff can get pricey, but you can use some cheap low brass to get your point of aim and your point of impact on. Once that's done shoot a couple with the shells you're going to hunt with. I LIKE HEVI knows his stuff and is giving you some good advice. I would definetly try the choke that came with the gun though. But you are with out a doubt going to get better patterns out of the hevi shot. You don't need to use hevi shot to kill turkeys, but all the money we spend on decoys, calls , camo, guns, boots, blinds etc.... A couple extra Ching for a great patterning shell is worth it to me. Let us know how it all pans out. Also where in PA are you located ? I'm in westmoreland.
Quote from: captin_hook on March 25, 2013, 02:13:41 PM
The reason for shooting at a large piece of cardboard at a small target on it is to find the densest part of the pattern. If you don't care about #s, then don't count em. Draw a 10 inch circle around the densest part and move your sights to make the densest part of the pattern hit what you are aiming at. I know this kind of stuff can get pricey, but you can use some cheap low brass to get your point of aim and your point of impact on. Once that's done shoot a couple with the shells you're going to hunt with. I LIKE HEVI knows his stuff and is giving you some good advice. I would definetly try the choke that came with the gun though. But you are with out a doubt going to get better patterns out of the hevi shot. You don't need to use hevi shot to kill turkeys, but all the money we spend on decoys, calls , camo, guns, boots, blinds etc.... A couple extra Ching for a great patterning shell is worth it to me. Let us know how it all pans out. Also where in PA are you located ? I'm in westmoreland.
Hey and thanks for giving him the tip on the lighter loads first. I kind of forgot that, and plus I din't want to have to make him go buy a box if he didn't already have them which could make the guy even more frustrated.
And again I was'nt trying to frustrate you buy getting you to buy more stuff. But sometimes buying what you need the first time and paying more will actually end up saving some people money who are like me or like I was I should say and always seem to have the curiosity of a cat and want maybe better. Heck I always wanted better. But now I have just topped out my patterns to the point unless something really significant comes along in chokes or turkey loads I'm not going to see much of any advantage whatsoever in blowing money for probably lesser results than what I currently have. And I have learned to stop chasing blowing money just to say I have tried that choke or load.