I know this has been covered somewhere, but I have not been able to search or find the answer. I was told that the 3" was a better shell, but I never saw research to back up that claim.
I need to order some Hevi-shot #7 to take advantage of the rebate and want to know the best shells to order.
I am shooting a new Benelli Super Black Eagle II with a 26" barrel. I plan on ordering a new Sumtoy choke tomorrow as well.
I have never had the 3" shell put up more numbers than the 3.5" shell, probably due to the sheer volume of pellets in the 3.5" shell.
Having said that I have no complaints with the 3" 2oz #7 load.
I have also read that the 3in shoots better. But I find it very hard to believe considering the added payload of the 3.5in. Personally I use the 3in.. little cheaper and easier on my shoulder. I'm getting over 200 hits in the 10 with 3in #7... good enough for me. Just use #7 regardless and you should will fine.
I don't shoot HTL any more but when I did I shot 3's. My grandad and uncle both have 835's and my uncles prefers 3.5" hevi 6's and Pops's gun prefers the 3's.
I don't know how many times I have to state this on here, but the 3.5" 2.25oz #7's will smoke the 3" 2oz #7 out of my 835. I have posted the patterns on here before. So I'm not going to keep posting them each time this question comes up. But if you want to talk 10" and 20" numbers and place your bets, you better be putting it on the longer and heavier loads for denser patterns.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 24, 2013, 07:32:33 PM
I don't know how many times I have to state this on here, but the 3.5" 2.25oz #7's will smoke the 3" 2oz #7 out of my 835. I have posted the patterns on here before. So I'm not going to keep posting them each time this question comes up. But if you want to talk 10" and 20" numbers and place your bets, you better be putting it on the longer and heavier loads for denser patterns.
Amen brotha!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I guess my question is does the 3 1/2" shell have more powder driving the 2 1/4 ounce load versus the 3" shell with 2 ounce load?
I think what I was told was not the pattern comparison as much as the knockdown power. How you would measure that I do not know without using ballistic gel.
It always does feel like a 3 1/2" shell has more recoil, but does that translate into more killing power?
Killing power will be the same if the shot size (hevi 7) is the same and the velocity of the shot is the same ... in your case a 3" of 7s going 1050 fps will have the same energy as the 3.5" of 7s going 1050 fps. .... Only thing different is amount of shot ( 3.5s have more recoil because of the extra powder it takes to get the extra .25 ounce of shot to the 1050 fps)
Some people are baseing there decision on recoil. The difference in recoil between the 3" and 3 1/2" is barely noticeably. I shoot a mossberg 535 which is by far the worst gun iv ever shot recoil wise. If you have ever shot a 3 " high velocity lead load which are usually 1300 fps, the hevi 13 will feel like a light field load even the 3 1/2".
Quote from: 01Foreman400 on March 24, 2013, 08:21:43 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 24, 2013, 07:32:33 PM
I don't know how many times I have to state this on here, but the 3.5" 2.25oz #7's will smoke the 3" 2oz #7 out of my 835. I have posted the patterns on here before. So I'm not going to keep posting them each time this question comes up. But if you want to talk 10" and 20" numbers and place your bets, you better be putting it on the longer and heavier loads for denser patterns.
Amen brotha!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks.
I'll add and I will be blunt and to the point. If you in fact get a 3" load to out pattern a heavier 3.5" load of the same brand of ammo in the same size shot out of a turkey gun, I will tell you 95% of the time it's due to the fact that your not using the right choke, exit diameter, or both for the 3.5" heavier load. Simply put there is nothing and I do mean nothing wrong with shooting 3" shells. But if you got a gun that is chambered for 3.5" and aren't utilizing the advantage that the 3.5" shells gives you for denser turkey patterns due to the slight recoil difference, well let me just say that is really such a small difference and your reasoning isn't really holding much water. Simply put the heavier loads will throw more shot downrange, and if choked right, you will in fact have denser patterns inside your 10" 20" or 30" circles. Now whether or not you want to take advantage of that pattern density is up to you. But I'll just say there is more myth about 3" lighter loads actually in reality out performing the heavier 3.5" payloads a vast majority of the times.
And I guess to add... how many of us actually think "Man that gun kicks hard" right after shooting a gobbler. It's the last thing you will think about after you shoot a nice bird. Yes, you notice it when you patterning the gun... but not after.
You said it. And really if recoil bothers a person in this sport you really have no businees shooting any turkey load for that matter.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 24, 2013, 10:56:53 PM
You said it. And really if recoil bothers a person in this sport you really have no businees shooting any turkey load for that matter.
:agreed: My brother-in-law who doesn't hunt watched me shoot my Winchester 1300 last summer (using 3in Win Supremes HVTL) and said that shooting a turkey is not worth the pain that the gun must inflict after watching the recoil of each shot. He was even more shocked when I broke out the 3 1/2's for my 1187. I tried to tell him that there was little difference in recoil but he attempted neither. I swear the only thing this man shot is a 22 rifle. He would never make it as a turkey hunter nor would I want him to.
Thanks for sharing Tom. I laughed on that one. And I don't want to say there isn't a difference for there in fact is when your pushing a 1/4oz heavier load the exact same speed as the lighter 2oz load. But your not really going to feel the difference shooting a turkey. Whether it 70lbs or 60lbs of force hitting your shoulder, the point is really moot is all I'm saying. A 30-06 or even a 300 Win Mag are going to be mild in comparison when it comes to recoil. So I hope you can see my point.
A 3.5 inch 2.25 ounce load kicks ridiculously hard - I had a older 835 and simply gave it away , and opted to go back to my 3inch Remington at the time -
Some people have had a hard time getting a 2.25 loads to shoot better than their 3 inch loads to make it worth their while , or they figure the 3 inch is plenty good enough for their needs --
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 24, 2013, 11:43:03 PM
Thanks for sharing Tom. I laughed on that one. And I don't want to say there isn't a difference for there in fact is when your pushing a 1/4oz heavier load the exact same speed as the lighter 2oz load. But your not really going to feel the difference shooting a turkey. Whether it 70lbs or 60lbs of force hitting your shoulder, the point is really moot is all I'm saying. Both ain't gonna be anything close to a 30-06 or even a 300 Win Mag when it comes to recoil.
Actually, Brad a 3.5" Magnum turkey round punches out 66 foot pounds of recoil out of an 8 lb. shotgun.
A .458 Winchester punches out 53 foot pounds of recoil in a 10 lb gun. The .458 was designed to drive a bullet through 7 inches of bone to hit an elephants brain.
I know when I now go to sight in or just shoot my deer rifles, it's a piece of cake. Shooting turkey guns has made me a much better shooter.
Quote from: lvetgas on March 24, 2013, 06:58:38 PM
I know this has been covered somewhere, but I have not been able to search or find the answer. I was told that the 3" was a better shell, but I never saw research to back up that claim.
I need to order some Hevi-shot #7 to take advantage of the rebate and want to know the best shells to order.
I am shooting a new Benelli Super Black Eagle II with a 26" barrel. I plan on ordering a new Sumtoy choke tomorrow as well.
Real simple: talk to Dr William @ SumToy! :z-guntootsmiley:
That's my first phone call this morning. Unless he is turkey hunting and then I am jealous after all the rain we had this weekend.
you may have to do some experimenting :z-guntootsmiley:
Rain, snow, welcome to spring turkey hunt in'! :funnyturkey:
Quote from: chatterbox on March 25, 2013, 05:45:12 AM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 24, 2013, 11:43:03 PM
Thanks for sharing Tom. I laughed on that one. And I don't want to say there isn't a difference for there in fact is when your pushing a 1/4oz heavier load the exact same speed as the lighter 2oz load. But your not really going to feel the difference shooting a turkey. Whether it 70lbs or 60lbs of force hitting your shoulder, the point is really moot is all I'm saying. Both ain't gonna be anything close to a 30-06 or even a 300 Win Mag when it comes to recoil.
Actually, Brad a 3.5" Magnum turkey round punches out 66 foot pounds of recoil out of an 8 lb. shotgun.
A .458 Winchester punches out 53 foot pounds of recoil in a 10 lb gun. The .458 was designed to drive a bullet through 7 inches of bone to hit an elephants brain.
I know when I now go to sight in or just shoot my deer rifles, it's a piece of cake. Shooting turkey guns has made me a much better shooter.
I think you read what I wrote backwards. I was saying that both aren't going to be anything close meaning they would be way more recoil then any of your normal deer rifles. A 30-06 is around 20lbs of force or so. So simply put it's mild in comparison. A 458 Win Mag is right at 60lbs.
Well actually I guess I wrote it backwards from what I meant. But thanks for the correction. I'll go and fix it.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 25, 2013, 11:01:20 AM
Well actually I guess I wrote it backwards from what I meant. But thanks for the correction. I'll go and fix it.
I figured you had it backwards. Just looked funny.
Quote from: FL-Boss on March 24, 2013, 10:25:40 PM
And I guess to add... how many of us actually think "Man that gun kicks hard" right after shooting a gobbler. It's the last thing you will think about after you shoot a nice bird. Yes, you notice it when you patterning the gun... but not after.
I agree, never noticed anything while shooting at a bird. And as far as patterning turkey guns, a homemade lead sled with 50lbs of lead shot takes care of that :you_rock:
I didn't buy a 3.5" gun to shoot 3" shells. I have had a 1300 awhile and with 3" lead 6's or 3-2-7's it is a killer. I bought the 935 and haven't even put a 3" turkey shell in it (now 3" BB's for predators is a different story).
I want to put all the shot I can in the air with whatever gun I am shooting.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 25, 2013, 12:44:57 AM
A 3.5 inch 2.25 ounce load kicks ridiculously hard - I had a older 835 and simply gave it away , and opted to go back to my 3inch Remington at the time -
Some people have had a hard time getting a 2.25 loads to shoot better than their 3 inch loads to make it worth their while , or they figure the 3 inch is plenty good enough for their needs --
I agree with this. Though I occasionally shoot 3.5", I truly see no need in them for turkey hunting. Years ago I shot a 835 with a 3.5" HV win. and decided right then it was ridiculous and didn't need to do it again. My 3" gun throws around 130 in the 10 with #5 lead and over 220 with hevi 7's and will kill a turkey at 40 yards just as grave yard dead as a 3.5" gun throwing 300+ #7's. There are no differing degrees of dead.
Quote from: darn2ten on March 25, 2013, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 25, 2013, 12:44:57 AM
A 3.5 inch 2.25 ounce load kicks ridiculously hard - I had a older 835 and simply gave it away , and opted to go back to my 3inch Remington at the time -
Some people have had a hard time getting a 2.25 loads to shoot better than their 3 inch loads to make it worth their while , or they figure the 3 inch is plenty good enough for their needs --
I agree with this. Though I occasionally shoot 3.5", I truly see no need in them for turkey hunting. Years ago I shot a 835 with a 3.5" HV win. and decided right then it was ridiculous and didn't need to do it again. My 3" gun throws around 130 in the 10 with #5 lead and over 220 with hevi 7's and will kill a turkey at 40 yards just as grave yard dead as a 3.5" gun throwing 300+ #7's. There are no differing degrees of dead.
I see your point. But now see mine. And you are correct if a turkey is truly dead in the first place it won't become any deader. But hear me out. And again nothing wrong with your logic, but more to me is better especially when it is feasible to do so meaning not costing an arm and leg to get the better results. I'll give an example. You say dead is dead and there is no differing degrees of dead. Ok a armed robber breaks into your house at night, and you have your choice between a 9mm pistol or a 22 pistol to protect yourself and shoot him if you need to. Now which one are you going to grab? Both will kill and can kill just as dead as you say. And there is no differing degrees of dead now. Or is there? Any smart person would take the 9mm. Now granted a turkey don't pack a gun, nor can it kill you at least not likely. But think about what I just said. Myself, I will take overkill anytime.
My 2 cents... with the 3.5in there is let's say 75 extra pellets when compared to the 3in. Don't know the exact count.. I know it's posted somewhere... just taking a guess. But my point is those extra pellets could mean the difference in dead or not. Assume you shoot a tad bit high on the bird... all it takes is for one of those stray pellets to hit him in the squash and it's game over. Or at least that will rattle his cage enough so you time to get off another shot. In that situation I want as many pellets as possible.
Now.. the flip side of the argument. Some guys don't want to have 100,000 pellets being slung at a bird. Takes some of the "sport" out of it on their eyes. They prefer smaller...20 gauge, etc. Another example is guys that turkey hunt only with a bow. ... that want more of a challenge. Part of me is like this... I would love to put together a nice 16 or 20 ga some day for turkey.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 25, 2013, 06:14:51 PM
I see your point. But now see mine. And you are correct if a turkey is truly dead in the first place it won't become any deader. But hear me out. And again nothing wrong with your logic, but more to me is better especially when it is feasible to do so meaning not costing an arm and leg to get the better results. I'll give an example. You say dead is dead and there is no differing degrees of dead. Ok a armed robber breaks into your house at night, and you have your choice between a 9mm pistol or a 22 pistol to protect yourself and shoot him if you need to. Now which one are you going to grab? Both will kill and can kill just as dead as you say. And there is no differing degrees of dead now. Or is there? Any smart person would take the 9mm. Now granted a turkey don't pack a gun, nor can it kill you at least not likely. But think about what I just said. Myself, I will take overkill anytime.
Comparing a 22 vs a 9mm isn't quite the same thing, thats like asking would I prefer a .410 or a 20ga to hunt turkeys. Comparing a 3" to a 3.5" turkey load would be more akin to comparing deer hunting with a 30-06 or a 300 win mag. Both will do the job. Both are a bit overkill, one slightly more so. :z-guntootsmiley:
I used it for illustration purposes only. I think it makes a lot of sense to most.
I think both sides of this argument have been well represented, and people are going to have strong opinions on what they feel is the best for killing turkeys.
I just think we need to look back and see that truckloads of birds were killed with 12 ga, full choke, shotguns shooting #4 lead shot. This was perfectly acceptable.
Now, I'm not advocating going back in time, but we all need to still remember that 100 evenly spaced pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards is still the minimally accepted standard.
I myself prefer to have a bit more insurance than that, but that number still stands.
So whether it's a 3.5-2.25-7 with 300 pellets, or it's a 3-2-7 load with 200 pellets, these shells are still way more than our predecesors had to kill turkeys with.
Point is, if you use either shell, dead is dead.
Why not step up to the 10 gauge??? And NITROS, I did and ain't looking back!!! I prefer turkeys be real dead!!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Quote from: runngun on March 25, 2013, 07:38:32 PM
Why not step up to the 10 gauge??? And NITROS, I did and ain't looking back!!! I prefer turkeys be real dead!!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
And I see your point.
If you take that 10" pattern at 40 yards of say 175 to 225 hits out of a 3" or a 3.5" gun that has a gun/choke matched up to do this every shot, and YOU can do this every shot...well you are ready for the turkey woods as far as shooting him and killing him is concerned. I mean there are no 1.5" inch areas on that pattern where you could miss that head entirely...never --every time you pattern that gun there are no spots where that pattern is not covered with enough pellets to kill that bird. Now, this same 3" or 3.5" gun is going to kill that turkey at probably 50 and maby 55 yards. Many on here have done this with 3" and 3.5" guns and probably many have done it most every year. Now,get this...if you have the confidence with your gun..whether 3" or 3.5" gun... and you know you are going to kill him when you pull that trigger..and I mean you KNOW he is going down. ONLY way he don"t go down...you fired and missed. Ever happened...has to me...and I can shoot...and I can miss. Point is, if I missed him with my 10" pattern of above said # of pellets--whether 3" or 3.5" gun it probably dosen't matter if a 3 or 3.5 because the pattern of 10" is there--in both guns--this makes me think that both guns are going to put him down if you can shoot. Think about it, at even a 20 to 30 inch good pattering gun..that bird goes down. Especially with Hevi-13--one bad shell. Expensive--yes--but that's what it is.Good hunting all.
I once had a guy ask me why I shoot a 3 1/2" shell ! My answer was :
Cause I cant get a 4" shell ! :icon_thumright:
Quote from: vaturkey on March 25, 2013, 08:56:43 PM
I once had a guy ask me why I shoot a 3 1/2" shell ! My answer was :
Cause I cant get a 4" shell ! :icon_thumright:
Well said Ricky.
Have you shot any 3.5" 2.25oz #7 loads out of that Benelli and new .670 Haymaker(Indian Creek)choke yet? I was just curious. That was a killer Magblend pattern you posted. Your probably content with that load. That's one of the better Magblend pattern I have seen.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 25, 2013, 07:13:45 PM
I used it for illustration purposes only. I think it makes a lot of sense to most.
Yep, but mine does too :toothy9:
Quote from: budtripp on March 25, 2013, 09:05:16 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 25, 2013, 07:13:45 PM
I used it for illustration purposes only. I think it makes a lot of sense to most.
Yep, but mine does too :toothy9:
That's true. And your example probably was better than mine. I know I had a 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag at one time. Both killed deer. The 7mm Rem Mag seem to kill them deader. But the 30-06 was a great gun.
30/06 is the bestest most goodest, don't be hatin' on my /06's.........
Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 25, 2013, 09:38:42 PM
30/06 is the bestest most goodest, don't be hatin' on my /06's.........
Yessir!