I picked up a Kick's Gobblin' Thunder .650 in RemChoke.
I know that .655 is the tightest anyone recommends for heavy Lead turkey loads in RemChoke, but I'm a little curious about card shooting with #7.5's, and I also like to squirrel hunt with a setup that can reach out 35-40 yards with cheap shells.
I might not would have gone with Kick's if I had ordered one, but I was in a store today that had the Kick's choke, and once I had it in my hand I just went ahead and bought it. I had been looking online at a couple of custom builders, as well as Pure Gold, Comp-n-Choke, and Kick's.....all in .650 RemChoke for #7.5's
Anyone have any experience with a Kick's .650? Am I pretty much limited to 1 Oz., 1.125 Oz., and 1.25 Oz. loads? I know #7.5's are fine, but what about #6's?
Any and all information appreciated.
I bet a .650 will snipe some crows!!! :you_rock:
For squirrel using that tight of a choke I would consider field load #4s to REDUCE the number of shot hitting the squirrel but delivering knock down power at longer distances.
Truglo SSX goes down to 643 in Rem I think.
I bought one and it worked great with winchester 3.5" hv 6's and XRHD 6's with 21" and 26" bbls. 870 SM.
QuoteI bought one and it worked great with winchester 3.5" hv 6's and XRHD 6's with 21" and 26" bbls. 870 SM.
Interesting. :z-winnersmiley:
QuoteTruglo SSX goes down to 643 in Rem I think.
I think the internal design of the SSX gives it some stress relief from the extreme amount of constriction. There is some straight rifling of sorts inside the SSX.
Most other choke makers recommend .640 to .650 for card shooting with light lead loads only. Although I believe SumToy makes a .650 Turkey choke.
FWIW, the Kick's card shooting chokes still come in the same Gobblin' Thunder packaging. I also have a Kick's .665, which doesn't shoot as tight as an Indian Creek .665 in my gun. A Kick's .655 or .660 is probably better than .665 for Turkeys in RemChoke.
I bet a .650 will snipe some crows!!! :you_rock:
I have a Kicks .660 I bought for card shooting in my 835 but I found it does not shoot light field loads as tight as my IC .675 that I use for turkey hunting.
QuoteI have a Kicks .660 I bought for card shooting in my 835 but I found it does not shoot light field loads as tight as my IC .675 that I use for turkey hunting.
From what I've read over the years, it appears that most of the guys who are getting good numbers with Turkey loads using Kicks chokes in a Remington, are using .655 or .660, with a few using .665
In my own past experience, owning a Kicks .665, as well as an Indian Creek .665 and .675; an Indian Creek choke will throw a tighter pattern in the same constriction. The Kicks .665 is huntable with HTL, but not too impressive with Lead. I thought about getting a Kicks .655 to try with Lead Turkey loads, but I really wanted to try out a .650 with squirrel/crow/target loads, so the .650 won out.
I want 3 chokes; one to play with, one that is good out to 40, and one that is lights out at 40. I'm just trying to nail those 3 down.
I have an old Hastings .640 and shot some of the 1.75 oz winn hv shells through it and it shot a pattern about the size of a tennis ball close, but opened up to a nice pattern at 40 yards. I've always shot 1oz high brass loads of 5 or 6 at sqaks and bunnies. Might see how they do through that choke.
I tried some light loads through the Kick's .650 today.
Win and Rem 1 oz 6's
Rem 1 oz 7.5's
Win and Rem 1.125 oz 7.5's
Win 1 oz 8's
All the patterns were pretty dense at 60 Feet, Muzzle to Target.
Patterns were 11 5/8" to 14 1/4" across, measuring the outside flyers.
Those 1 ounce #6's make a neat little pattern. At close range, you could single out a bird in the middle of a flock and snipe it. Not very many flyers to contend with.
Now I need to move out to 75 Feet, and 90 Feet and see what I've got.
As always, I would recommend high quality target loads, especially with a choke that tight. The extra hard shot will hold up better with that super tight constriction, so you will have less fliers. Of course, you can't get them in 6s, but you can get 7.5s in 7/8, 1, or 1 & 1/8 oz versions.
QuoteI would recommend high quality target loads
I tried the Remington Nitro Sporting Clays 1.125 ounce 1300fps #7.5, and Winchester AA Super Sport Sporting Clays 1.125 ounce 1300fps #7.5 loads.
They both patterned nicely through this choke at 60 Feet, and have patterned well at 90 Feet through other chokes in the past.
Quote from: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on August 15, 2012, 08:34:27 AM
QuoteI would recommend high quality target loads
I tried the Remington Nitro Sporting Clays 1.125 ounce 1300fps #7.5, and Winchester AA Super Sport Sporting Clays 1.125 ounce 1300fps #7.5 loads.
They both patterned nicely through this choke at 60 Feet, and have patterned well at 90 Feet through other chokes in the past.
Few things to keep in back of your head. Them loads will work different from different guns. Ports,auto loader,big bore, forcing cone, and so on. Them shells are HOT. Now bigger choke works best out of the small bore guns and guns that dont let off gas. AA will blow the pattern bad if you choke it small because it build back pressure. It will look like a donut pattern. You run small choke got to get wild on the lay out of the choke and put the brakes on it hard.
QuoteThem shells are HOT. Now bigger choke works best out of the small bore guns and guns that dont let off gas. AA will blow the pattern bad if you choke it small because it build back pressure. It will look like a donut pattern.
I will keep that in mind. The 1.125oz 1300fps Sporting Clays #7.5 loads by Win and Rem are awesome shells, and I assume that the #8's are too. I wish they also made them in a #6.
I have a .650, .655, .665, .665 with 5 catchers, .675, .690, and .700 that pattern pretty well in my 870, even with the cheap 1 oz #6, #7.5, & #8 target and game loads I've tried. I'm not blowing holes, but I'm surrounding the x. Sometimes I'm on the x. I "hope" that with #9's the hits would spray the card fairly well.
You just playing or you have a shoot to get ready for. What yards you shoot the nines at. What nine is it. I have seen the Fed TG and Estate 11/8 blow holes from 60ft in. Now that not no big hole but around a dime. Most the time with the rem guns you want to go small on the choke unless you have one of the older target barrels or one of the VERY few ported ones.
Browning Plus will blow hole with 675 to 678 at 60 with them shells in WARM air.
Now the Win AA Gray shell I shoot clay with if I cant find the Noble Sports.
Also the AA has a smaller wad and a harder wad then most shells.
Hope this helps.
QuoteYou just playing or you have a shoot to get ready for
At this point I'm just playing, because I'm not aware of any shoots in Mississippi. Please advise if you know of any. This is something that I want to do, but so far I'm just playing in the back yard. I will probably go below .650 next time I buy a choke, but I'd like to know what any local shoots might allow, that is if any local shoots even exist.
One observation is that 1.125 ounces of #7.5 looks a lot like 1 ounce of #8 through a .650 on paper at 60 Feet. If anything, the #7.5 is a little tighter.
I think the turkey hunting world, and the card shooting world share a lot of common ground. Cardshooting would fit in here bigtime.
It seems that if I want to be competitive with a stock gun and a screw-in choke, I will have to compete in events that only allow Stock, or Stock-Appearing guns?
So far, the only shoots I've found out about in Mississippi are "Anything Goes at 90 Feet with 1.125 Ounce shells".
"You can't win Rock!" (Rocky III reference) :newmascot:
Stock barrel should do fine at 90. May need to find you one and do some chamber work to it. Big barrel not any better at 90 other then not heat up and heavy. One thing if you have not did to your gun is lengthen the cone. That not hurt hunting side. Chamber work it goes to a target gun then.
Now you DON'T want target shooters around. That why I had two web sites. 50/50 deal with them. They about 1/2 keep some kind of bull $#!+ started all the time.
QuoteNow you DON'T want target shooters around. That why I had two web sites. 50/50 deal with them. They about 1/2 keep some kind of bull $#!+ started all the time.
Oh crap...........yet another group of people to stress me out. :character0029:
So they talk a lot of smack?
I got out and fired a few today to just see. Now this was a plain 28 inch 870 barrels that has NOT been anything other then brush and alcohol down it.
My table is set with a trigger line. All target shoot go from the trigger. So it runs 50 to 90 in one foot marks. I set the target at 63 so that should be about your 60.
Fed 3-11/8-8 from walmart.
This was a 660
The squares are 33/4x4 inch.
this is 643
this was 638
I would take some of them targets. That 80 and 90 feet stuff is alot of luck.
This is the number after I counted them.
643 4x4 card 173
660 4x4 card 169
638 4x4 card 157 but had alot small holes that I did not count. I only count what I know is pellet even on tk targets.
That one is strong for that shell. :icon_thumright:
I just picked up some Federal Top Gun 1.125 Ounce #8's.
I couldn't find ANY #9's.
I'll try these Top Gun 8's at 60 Feet, 75 Feet, and 90 Feet.
The .650 choke is what I want to use as a reference. Maybe one of my other chokes will end up beating it, but I wanted a few patterns and some numbers to start with. I guess I can always buy yet another choke if I have to.
The ones I shot was the 100 pack from walmart. That is what we see the most of at the shoots all over. The win universal is next.
PitJeep and Muddy off this forum shoots alot of it. I did pitjeep gun and I think they around 85 to 90 in a 5x5 at 90. Could be more with that shell and that with the Win. I think if you get up around 75 to 80 you be in running at most shoots you will find. :icon_thumright: The gun Pit got and Muddy (WBBB gun) get run off from most shoots.
Ok this is some more for you to kick around. New H&R that we did chamber work and put choke. This show you how it changes. Now this is 50 ft with the 8's. All stock guns with choke should do this but chamber clean hole up at times.
This was it at 63 ft from trigger line. It same numbers as stock gun in other post but pattern almost got a hole in it. 1/2 the size as other pattern.
When I have time, (it might be a while), I'll shoot some patterns with a .655, .665, .675, and .690 to see how they compare to my .650 patterns with the #8 Top Guns. If opening the choke doesn't help much, I'll need to try something tighter than .650, maybe .645 or .642
It is wild how it will work. Our 650 not like 8's. 660 likes it short not much difference in it and small chokes. Now this was a 642. Long stuff I run 638 to 645. Now with one of the layouts we have it works best around a 648. We have found a 870 likes to be around 642. Win/Moss likes 645/647 rang. :icon_thumright:
Hope this help you win a few rounds.
My progress with the stock 28" 870. I've added the number of hits in 5" x 5" at 60 Feet. Either of these 3 combos ought to dust a crow at a fair distance.
1.125 Oz. #8 Top Gun and Indian Creek .665, 305 in 5" x 5" at 60 Feet
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m560/mallardmachete007/1125Oz8IndianCreek665at60Feet.jpg)
1.125 Oz. #8 Top Gun and Kick's .650, 245 in 5" x 5" at 60 Feet
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m560/mallardmachete007/1125Oz8Kicks650at60Feet.jpg)
1.125 Oz. #8 Top Gun and Ventilator .655, 230 in 5" x 5" at 60 Feet
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m560/mallardmachete007/1125Oz8Ventilator655at60Feet.jpg)
OK, the outcome of all this was:
I tried a Kick's .650, Ventilator .655, Indian Creek .665 with ports and wad catchers, and an Indian Creek .675 without ports or wad catchers.
I used 1 ounce #6, #7.5, #8 loads, and 1 1/8 ounce #7.5, #8 loads.
Indian Creek .665 with ports and wad catchers gave the best "card target" patterns.
Indian Creek .675 without ports or wad catchers gave the next best "card target" patterns. Dense core in the pattern, etc.
That left the Kick's .650 and the Ventilator .655, both of which gave nice hunting patterns. The .650 seemed to do well with all of the 1 ounce loads, giving nice tight even patterns. The .655 seemed to like #7.5 and #8 loads.
Still, even 305 in 5" x 5" at 60 Feet using a 1 1/8 ounce load of #8 Lead was met by criticism on the card shooting forums, insisting that you need to be blowing a large hole in the target at 60 Feet. If that's so, then my idea of competing with a true stock gun using a screw-in choke seems doomed.
Are you wanting to shoot a stock gun in the open or wildcat class of targets????? The shoots I have been to in the open class they don't messure the number of shoot, they see how big is the hole.
QuoteAre you wanting to shoot a stock gun in the open or wildcat class of targets?
No. I was hoping that such a thing as a stock shoot existed. But evidently, everyone either tries to cheat at stock shoots, or else shoots in the open class with pro stock guns.
I'm not bitter about it. It is what it is.
3" 870 Stock is a funny word in my world. I will tell you I only of 2 shoots that are stock. Then most of the time we can find that gray area in the rule.
Now the site you was on is the one I think some of them will feed you a line to sale you something. Some will feed you line to try to get in your head to. Now like I said before at 60 ft with 9's we can blow a hole with alot of stock barrels with just a choke. Now they shoot 60 ft from trigger line. That was why I shot the targets at 63 ft. You shot from end of barrel.
The targets you had I would take to a shoot. Now can you have better yes you can but if you only shoot a few times a year take what you have. It will stand up fine. Take this from a target shooter it is ALOT of luck when you shoot to the X after you get 60 ft and out. I would take a target like yours with alot of shot then a target with a hole in it. Hard to keep that hole in the center with rifle sights and leaning on a board.
QuoteThe targets you had I would take to a shoot.
I couldn't find any #9's in the county I live in, but perhaps they would have been the key to blowing holes consistently at 60 Feet and out?
Still, I know the 1 1/8 Ounce Top Gun #8's are used at some shoots, so I was working with a relevant shell. I also tried some #7.5's and even #6's, because I might actually hunt with those.
The Indian Creek .665 was blowing some small holes at 63 Feet, and it gave the most center dense patterns, of the chokes I had on hand. One thing I saw was that a choke with wad catchers is an advantage. I don't think my success with that particular choke was all due to the .665 exit diameter. 5 wad catchers, and possibly even 30 parallel ports probably had more to do with it. Although, the Indian Creek .675 which didn't have catchers or ports was my second best performing choke. (An Indian Creek choke between .660 and .650 with catchers and ports would probably smoke some 60 Foot targets.)
However, I also realize that SumToy Customs builds chokes, and I appreciate all of your input on this thread. I'm sending you a pm about something else.
3 inch it will not let me send you a message. I will email it to you if you get me a link.