O.K. Where'd the Handloading section go this time?
Lawyer says no ..., I was told that to keep operating it , I might as well crash my car into a bus full of trial lawyers - its a invitation for me to get sued if they blow them selves up - I was also told a jury of 12 could convict a Ham sandwich of gross negligence - Ive seen some real crazy stuff that some folks have tried plus been informed of a few thing sby some members between my attorney , and people selling homemade shells , its just not worth it - My families future is more important
the forum will revert back to its original form , minus no load formulas or particulars ---
not pointed at you , but it would be proper to mention publicly that....
I am also somewhat disgusted at some immature people who have been utilizing the area to promote 80-110 yard shots and bragging about it - we put our foot down on it , and they have dug their heels in on it , resorting to playing games , running smack talk about me and my staff and this site - that game is over too , we are nice helpful people and we do not deserve to be annoyed in this manner and be able to visit our own site without being distracted by it -
Thats too bad but seems to be the way this site is going. :TrainWreck1:
Quote from: timbrhuntr on July 09, 2012, 09:56:21 PM
Thats too bad but seems to be the way this site is going. :TrainWreck1:
I am not sure what you mean by that but if you dont care about me putting my family above you , just let me know .....
let me inform you that in some states you can loose the the roof over your head , cause your home owners policy doenst cover being sued for something like this -
Im not being placed at risk cause some people are infatuated with shooting a gobbler at 100 yards - end of story --SK
Worst part about this is that you could be sued because someone on this site tried something that they read. Common sense should play in to the equasion. Otherwise it is just thinning the herd. Sorry it had to be this way, but I understand and would do the same thing.
Quote from: coyotetrpr on July 09, 2012, 11:03:59 PM
Sorry it had to be this way, but I understand and would do the same thing.
I have to agree.....and with your sig line as well!!
"Jakes are like scotch. They are not worth a darn until they age"HC
I for one, support Shannon and the Mods for the fine work they do here. It is a tough job, and they do it well.
Shannon says it's gone, and that's the way it is, and I for one, don't blame him. It only takes one knucklehead for him to loose everything. Nothing is worth that.
Use a call, call them into acceptable killing range, and enjoy the sport for what it is. A close range game between you and a very worthy adversary! If he stays out of range, figure out a way to get him in range.
Thank you Shannon for having a great site for all of us turkey fanatics to enjoy, and for the mods for keeping it friendly!
Mike
I did enjoy reading in this portion of the site, but do understand removing it. It would be hard to keep it simple and safe.
:smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an
Sorry to see it have to go, but I understand.
I never had looked at it from the legal side. I just look at the safety side of it. I know you working with a bomb and some of the folks change or load them wrong it could go bad. I have seen it. Some one call they shoot ________ load I think ok need this. It not work then you find they have changed something in the load.
I don't blame Shannon at all in getting rid of the section and the members who absolutely "refused" to abide by his wishes of keeping the talk of long range turkey shooting off of the site. One thing these people have to remember is that this site is a privately owned site and when someone wants to run their own agenda bucking the site rules and ignoring multiple requests by the admin to stop well then they will just end up on the outside looking in. It also amuses me how they then run to other sites claiming how they were done wrong by the site admin when in reality it wasn't the site admin that done them wrong but their own actions of ignorance and stupidity that placed them where they now are.
This is a turkey hunting site where we encourage the use of age old hunting techniques to obtain everyone's goal of not only tagging a Tom but also to help everyone enjoy an exciting, safe and memorable experinace with mother nature and the great outdoors. Scouting techniques along with how to use a turkey call is what it's all about. Of course there has been advancements in technology such as hunting blinds and turkey decoys which some people use and some choose not to use but the whole goal of these two is to draw the bird in for an up close experinace with such a beautiful bird. But to develop a firearm and a ammunition load to take long distance shots of 75, 90 and even 100+ yards is not just lazy, stupid even unethical but it is just plain dangerous for a variety of reasons let alone the fact that these idiots are wounding birds that deserve much respect. I don't care who you are or what type of load you have. The odds of wounding a bird drastically increases with distance. So if these individuals want to load up their questionable and possibly toxic pixey dust (questionable radiation levels) so they can take risky and unethical long distance shots at a bird that deserves much more respect than that, well then they can go ahead and talk about it somewhere else because that kind of talk and behavior is not welcomed here on OG.
There have been so many issues in that former area that I could write book about - I wold just about jump out of my skin when I was informed people were cutting open shells and poring in another material and sealing it up - The were way to many people loading up shells on the wrong manner scores of clueless folks with next to zero reloading experence just slapping shells together like this - therevare so many accounts of this - it was scarry -I don't know how there hasn't been a incident
We are sick and tired of few nut jobs trying to ram down a 100 shot aggenda on the rest of us - they dug thier heels on this , they are expert at the game of turning any questions into the matter and diverting to any other issue , the fact remains they like shooting gobblers at 100 yards and they want the rest of the world( peer group) to accept them as being a bonafide turkey hunter- I can report to that when any person admits to engaging in the activity of shooting a gobbler or taking up for such aperson .... at these ranges, they have robbed them selves of any credibility what so ever - they can keep blabbing their stupid lips it all sounds like this blah blah 100 blah blah I'm a idiot blah blah blah
bring in to the issue that if someone gets hurt while doing this on my site OG I can be held liable you can see why the plug got pulled
I have washed my hands of the issue
Thanks for once having the section... I now have safe loads that will far outperform anything you can buy off the shelf. It was never about stupid distances, it was about shooting the best I can at a turkeys face... BTW, my longest shot (since hanloading) has been 32 yards.
Do what you gotta do, it's your site and your rules. I will miss it though.
I made that comment because thats how I feel about this site. I lurked here when it first started and then finally joined when it seemed like a good site to learn about turkeys. I originally joined because I was looking to find a custom call. I found a good group of knowledgeable people here. Sure there was debate but it always seemed civil and you learned from it. Then there was this slow turn to where certain bullies began to run the site. If you had a different opinion or view and posted it you got shot down now you are openly called an idiot. I believe you when you say you are dead against long shots on turkeys okay I get it. I however don't think you are dropping the handloading section because of being sued. You had very knowledgeable people on here and when a bad load or practice was suggested they were all over it. However these same people seemed to have strong opinions on other things and one of those was developing loads that can shoot and kill at a long range. So they got banned now you have lost the experts in that forum. (I must admit I think you are making a wise choice in dropping that section for that reason alone.) I am one of the TURKEY hunters on this forum that developed a great load from these guys and love it. Sure I can shoot at long distance but that isn't why I did it. I make up my own arrows, decoys, and even am know making my own mounts and hope to also make some of my own calls next. But is seems that the only thing that I am learning from this site now is that I am not a turkey hunter but an idiot that can't use a call. I have basically stopped posting here now so if you decide to ban me for this expession of my opinion on this matter well what can I say its just too hard to just sit back and silently watch it anymore.
I personally don't feel that the handload section is single-handedly responsible for the decline of the sport of turkey hunting. I also don't feel that they are the reason people feel like they can successfully kill a turkey over 40 yards either.
Keep in mind....one of the main companies worshiped on this site has had more influence on actually shooting at a turkey over 40 yards than any of us ever dreamed of having. 75+ yards...If Hevi says I can with a load of STORE PURCHASED ammo than I guess I can. I think you get my point.
(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/Gophert/MagBlend-Chart.jpg)
Quote from: gophert on July 10, 2012, 03:23:08 PM
I personally don't feel that the handload section is single-handedly responsible for the decline of the sport of turkey hunting. I also don't feel that they are the reason people feel like they can successfully kill a turkey over 40 yards either.
Keep in mind....one of the main companies worshiped on this site has had more influence on actually shooting at a turkey over 40 yards than any of us ever dreamed of having. 75+ yards...If Hevi says I can with a load of STORE PURCHASED ammo than I guess I can. I think you get my point.
(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/Gophert/MagBlend-Chart.jpg)
We also disapprove of this type of advertising as it sends the "WRONG" message to the general hunting public as it has been thoroughly discussed here on OG in the past. And as you put it not all members of the site live by Hevi-shot or even Nitros. I personally shoot Winchester loads and stand by them. I'm not a fan of Nitro or even the Hevi-13 hype. Who we support or who you support has nothing to do with any of this. It truly is that we want nothing to do with the Long Range Shooting that is taking place by a handful of people. If they want to play with their pixie dust then they can play with it somewhere else but not here on OG. The Reloaders section was developed for all the members to utilize for loading all types of loads but as time went on it was "abused" by the pixie dust zombies so if you all are going to be upset for the section disappearing then blame those members for not abiding by the wishes of keeping the long distance shooting talk off of the site. That is it in a nutshell......
bird
To answer many posts on the subject , Hey I'm not happy about it either - after all I made the section - Its just going to go back to the way it was before , people can post as they used to {minus load formulas and instructional )
No , kidding I consider myself lucky nothing hasn't happened to someone already - make no joke about it , there are many attorneys that will take up a pro bono case for chits and giggles if they are lucky enough to get some body walk in their office missing fingertips or worse - and with the level of carless bliss I witnessed - It was just a matter of time ..... these aren't dove loads they are cooking up , we are talking some very heavy duty loads, and people were mod'ing the loads or altering original factory loads - seen it - its all been reviewed - and flagged -
I don't appreciate people making threats of violence towards anyone here , I was made aware that someone made a public threat against one of my staff members .....that pretty much speaks volumes right there for the level of maturity , this is how someone bans themselves . The rest of the people we asked too many times to tone it down , they just could not resist like a sales pitch , we lost count of how many times they blatantly plugged shooting at gobblers at 88 , 93 and even 110 yards - Listen , this is nothing new , we know all the tactics - the hard core promoters of that shot material will do anything but address the 110 yard elephant in the room , they divert , they dodge , they point fingers at other people and try and trample their business , seen that too many times - this has been going on for years and years people -- all they had to do is keep the talk of the way, way , way out shots under control so that people are not influenced to cripple gobblers , that's all ... was that too much to ask for ?
The shot material , got nothing against it , just what some people are trying to do with it - the company that sold it state side went belly up , so it has to be imported at great cost , and looks to be greater because the price has shot up high and may go much higher ,the vast majority of all Tungsten comes out of China and is basically price rigged by them - some comes out of other parts of the world , recently people are claiming there are some issues with it -
Ammo companies are like politicians , they about make any ridiculous claims to get you to come over - the above mentioned add is about as realistic and irresponsible as Obama saying he is going to fix the economy and everyone is going to have free health care, a free hair cut , and a ice cream cone - not the first time I have seen adds like this ,probably wont be the last I don't approve of it and about as irresponsible as shooting a gobbler at 93 yards with a shotgun and bragging about it publicly -But like all salespersons they make tall claims , I cant control those claims cause I do not work for them or have any affiliation , I'm not the complaint hot line, or media relations -These people got to figure out their situations on their own - The 100 yard drones will continue to dodge the issues like a politician on the stage at a debate with clever words, diversions - same old tricks I have ZERO respect for any such person - {notice I didn't say turkey hunter} Anyone who partakes or takes up for a person in shooting at a gobbler with a shotgun at 80 ,100 yards , whatever ,or the like range is a total slob , and and a disgrace to the sport of turkey hunting --
Back when I first witnessed the push to silence all discussion of long-range turkey shots on OG, I found it a bit odd, considering the fact that all of the other ongoing discussions concerning our experimentation with different shells, chokes, reloading components, etc. were seeking to maximize lethality at 40 yards, which in turn would also increase everyones' maximum effective range.
I didn't think it would ever be possible to get everyone to scale back all of the "look at my 50 Yard Nitro Pattern" posts. So much water had already gone under that bridge. From Lead to Nitros, to Hevishot, to Heviweight, to TSS.
I understand the potential liability issues concerning the posting of load recipes which push the envelope.
OG is one of my favorite websites on the internet. So much helpful information has been posted here. I for one have benefited from this website. I hope OG lives on for many years to come.
There was no over 40 issue until some folks started in with forcing the 100 yard BS on the masses like it was sales pitch - things were more or less fine before they started in with it - all those issues with the 40 , that was because of them - they like to have people make their little 40.5 yard jokes , and divert { there is that word again} away from the real issue and that is a long going and strategic campaign to ram that 100 yard agenda on the forum members here -
you can see why the plug got pulled
I have washed my hands of the issue
[/quote]
:icon_thumright:
Just curious...What have your attorneys told you about your liability protection as it pertains to Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996?
Hey that's good info right there. Thanks for sharing but still doesn't excuse the inappropriate behavior of those that caused the reloaders section to be removed in the first place. Wrong or right and backed up by such section still doesn't protect a site owner from the expense of having to defend themselves of any knowledge of wrong doing in a court of law.
I've debated with myself about posting this, but finally decided to. This needs to be said.
I can't say that I ever saw a member here promote a 100yd shot on a turkey. Maybe that happened before I became a member or it happened after and the post got pulled before I saw it.
I know where the 110yd reference came from. And that person wasn't promoting that shot from what I can remember. As I recall, he shot @ a gobbler much closer to him that was on or near a rise in a field. After walking up to the bird, he noticed another turkey flopping much further away.....one that he couldn't see due to the terrain. He didn't even know that turkey was there. He was providing an example as to the lethality of TSS shot and nothing more. I find it disingenuous to claim that he was promoting a 110yd shot.
And what about all of the name calling going on? Zombies?? Idiots?? Drones?? Where is the level of maturity there??
Let me be clear on this as I don't want anyone thinking differently.......I am NOT promoting long range shooting at a gobbler. As timbrhuntr said........ " I am one of the TURKEY hunters on this forum that developed a great load from these guys and love it. Sure I can shoot at long distance but that isn't why I did it." Am I any less of a turkey hunter because I might take a shot from time to time that is over 40yds? Do you really think I don't know how to use a call? I may not be the best caller ever or maybe even a good one, but I know how to use one and have called in (in most cases) every single gobbler I've ever shot. Never had another guy call a bird in for me, so just maybe I know how to use one.
Are we getting to the point where will bash on deer hunters that take rifle shots over 100, 200, 300 yds? What if a guys equipment and developed load will shoot with high accuracy @ 1000yds? Would you be shocked to know a fellow member here on OG has in the last few years taken one shot kills on deer @ over 800yds? Would you bash him for it? I'll even take that argument to bow hunters.........Traditional guys are notorious for bashing the guys that use modern compounds and take shots over 20-30yds. They like to say "you should be a better hunter and get closer". Do you know that the bowhunters out west routinely practice their shots @ 60, 70 and even 80 yards? Are they any less of a bowhunter than those eastern hunters who never take shots over 30?
I understand the 40yd rule here and have followed it and I too understand the liability concerns with posting load data, but it just seems to me that this whole situation could have been handled in a completely different manner. Certain members were banned and others left. Lots of knowledge and experience went out the door. It's disappointing really........as OG has been one of my favorite hunting websites as well. I have learned alot while being here and hopefully, I don't get the boot after posting this. I only wrote it to put perspective on the whole thing.
Lets just move on....................
The plain and simple fact is that anyone that takes a 100+ yard shot at a turkey truly is an idiot. This subject has been beaten like an old horse and is no longer up for discussion as we have moved on. End of discussion.. Move on and get over it.