I was thinking of trying the new heavy loads on the market. I have some free time and was about to give it a try until I got to the store :o
Why? Over my entire turkey hunting career I have only gone 1 year without a bird. I now the limits of my gun and feel 35 and under is a dead bird walking.
I can be persuaded so give it your best shot.
But for $5 a shot for a bird? WOW
i shoot a mossberg 835.. shot 2 types of winchester shells, 2 kinds of federal , remington nitro and other shells.all in 5 or 6 shot . the winchester shot very good out to 25 yards . but fell apart( really bad) at 40 . it was not even close to half the pellets in a 10 or 20" circle at 40. i forget the numbers i had at 25 yards but it would kill for sure.. i was just amazed after 25 yards how terrible the shells were. now for the hevi shells. they shot good at 25 ,30 35,and 40 ,was absolutely amazing compared to the other shells. i think i can push it further but i won't!!!! . i shot the ssx , indian creek an another choke when i tested the patterns last year. i went with a sumtoy choke cause the choke threw a better pattern than the others. oh i only shot 3" shells think my numbers were 179 or so in a 10" circle at 40
More pellets per ounce...
Denser than lead...
Tighter patterns...
More hits in 10" & 20"...
Non-toxic...
And for those moments where you grossly misjudge the distance you still have a dead turkey...
Comparing HTL to lead is kinda like comparing a $40 call to a $8 call...they will both get the job done...one just does it better...
This post has been modified by admin.
Nothing Over 40 Means Nothing Over 40.
All I can say is your rght. I still hunt with lead #'4s but am going to play around with the new stuff this year. So I have a box of rounds at my house right now worth better than 200$ and in the end ill probably be back with winchester HV's. I am not looking to jinx myself as my season begins today but I have only missed one bird and that was because of a major mis judge. I rarely get a shot at 40 yds but when I do its lights out and that's with my lead so back to your question I don't know why.
So you feel 35 yards is your max? Will you take that 35 yard shot? If so, then can you judge distance perfectly every time in all light conditions, up hill, down hill, over obstructions, and know every time that that turkey is at or inside your 35 yard limit? If not, then what happens when you believe a bird is at 35 and it happens to be 40 or a bit more? What if you can shoot a shell that will give you that extra safety margin? That is the ethical reason for shooting HTL shot, not stretching reasonable shooting distances. That margin for error is comforting. Yes they are expensive, but most of us don't shoot boxes of turkey shells per year. You pay for that margin for error.
After reading Skeeterbaits simply put reasoning I have to say that that is a good enough answer for me. So after I play around with some new chokes and shells I may not go back to lead. After your gun is figuered out. 20 bucks a box is cheap in comparison to all the other goodies I buy on a year to Chase these birds.
I feel I do yardage estimation very well. Many years of bowhunting has MADE me learn proper yardage estimation. 35 I am very confident and will take it every time if needed. I also have the self control to let out of range birds pass, this again taught by my years of bowhunting.
A dense pattern does not kill anymore effectively at 35 yrds. Dead is dead correct?
If I switch it would be to create a better pattern at longer distance. And if thats the goal yes I will use the added distance or I really am throwing money out the barrel.
Now is it unanimous that the value added for distance is worth the $?
And no the $40 call does not do the job better, just prettier ;D
Maybe thats my problem. $20 a box, where? For a 50% increase I would have no issues trying it. But everything I found is about 150% increase in cost.
Lead $13 for 10
Heavy whatever brand $40 for 10.
Maybe I just need shopping advice?
If your looking to squeeze all the performance you can out of your gun, your going to have to shoot HTL. I started using the HTL a couple years ago just to chase numbers. I still kill the exact same amount of birds as I did with lead. This year I started hunting with a 20 gauge and with the Hevi 7's it's a better performer than my 12 with lead.
The advantages are denser patterns and better penetration than lead of the same size.
If I had to choose between a 12 with lead and a 20 with HTL, I'd choose the 20.
I still pass on the shots that I'd pass on with lead, but I do feel better when my backs agianst the tree with HTL.
Is it worth it to you to pay 400% more money to kill maybe 0.04% more birds? :D
If you're a "dead is dead" guy.. use lead
if you're a "you can never have TOO dead" using Hevi is the way to go
The first two birds I killed with Hevi I just stood over instead of stood on.. those birds were shot at 33 and 29 yds which is lead all day range but the destruction sure wasn't. the shots were both tough shots through some brush and small trees with enough light vegetation to make the window pretty small. Instead of getting a few pellets through the window and knocking the bird down long enough to get to his neck they looked like I had shot them at 10yds and finished them with a 16oz hammer.
I actually thought I might have missed both times because the bird just disappeared at the shot instead of flopping and flapping.
My dad said I was crazy for paying what I did til he was patterning his standard lead at 30yds and I handed him a mag blend and he tripled his nuimbers inside 10".
many years ago the shot com loded shells called duplex 4 5 6 and tes they put holes in papper to your mag blends just use 7 shot not the 4 shot i have personaly killed over 100 birds never lost one all with LEAD so if your thing is keepen up with the joneses that your call Like the decoy thing zink dsd y pay that much just to say i got one im still usen feather flex and yes the toms come to them just like they do to the high end ones and yes dead is dead. I have never been a me to person didnt grow up with a computer i did it all on my own im 43 and i can tell u all you dont need the htl it is a great marketing gimic they want your money and they get it
Hevi shot ranges from $20 to $ 29 per 5 round box, depending where you shop....With the $5 rebate they're offering, mine cost me $15 per box and I have 5 dead turkeys in my freezer. Like skeeter said....you don't shoot turkeys but a few days a year and 1 or 2 boxes of shells should be all you need. I would pay $35 more for the Hevi since I don't need but 1 box per year.....It's worth every penny when you kill the gobbler at a range that lead may not.
When I go hunting my main objective is to kill turkeys. Paying an extra $3 per turkey for the added efficiency HTL shot gives me isn't even an afterthought.
Why do I use Hevi?
Precious vacation time.
Car rental.
Airfare.
Room & board.
The weather in Nebraska.
The weather in Kansas.
My insane love of turkey hunting.
The fact that if I wanted cheap turkey, I'd go to the grocery store.
Getting the only shot in the last hour of the last day.
But, a picture(s) is worth a thousand words:
Last week in Nebraska, the one afternoon without 25-40 mph, bird gobbled once and walked in right behind me. He stayed behind the trees in the middle of the pic. I had one opening. He took a few steps, and the H-13 + Burris FF II did the rest. I'm 95% sure the equipment was the key factor:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/mudhen/2012Turkey266.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/mudhen/2012Turkey275.jpg)
mudhen
One of the replies stated that hevi shot allows for more pellets per oz. That doesnt add up. There should be less pellets per oz in a given shot size with hevi vs lead.
I think maybe its due to using a smaller shot size???
I'm a "How dead is dead" guy. I see no reason for me to shoot hevi shot. I have two 870 super mags that will put 100-110 winchester 3.5/2/5's in 10 at 40 every time. I see no need in trying for any higher numbers than that for the terrain I hunt. I normally can't get a shot at 40 yards anyway, so I'll leave my share of hevi loads on the shelf and keep buying $13 a box winchesters from wal mart. That will leave more for the rest of you boys. Call 'em close and kill 'em dead. :OGturkeyhead:
Quote from: Fastcat on May 01, 2012, 09:46:41 PM
One of the replies stated that hevi shot allows for more pellets per oz. That doesnt add up. There should be less pellets per oz in a given shot size with hevi vs lead.
When comparing shot materials you cannot compare similar shot sizes. THat would be an apples to oranges comparison. A smaller more dense HTL pellet will act similar to a larger less dense shot pellet. While there may be fewer HTL #4's per oz compared to Lead #4, you can drop to HTL #6 or #7 and get equal or better energy transfer and more pellets. That is the benifit of HTL shot. You get the performance of the lead #4 and #5 everyone hypes about, but in a larger number of smaller pellets. Also, when you have a smaller harder more dense material; the penetration is better than a larger softer less dense material.
I shoot HTL because I think it does the best job. I guess I mean it makes them "deader better". If you limit your shots to your stated personal range "lead will make them dead". I've always tried to use what I felt was the best option for the task at hand. To me ammo is always the least expense of a hunt so I never skimp on what might be the deciding factor on whether I fill my tag or not.
IMHO, HTL out of a 12 or a 10 gauge is probably overkill. That is, Pb at reasonable distances will kill a bird "everytime." Where HTL makes the most impact is in the 20 or 28 gauge or in the .410. The ability to drop down in size to 7 or smaller in guns with small payloads and have patterns that match or even beat the big bores makes it more than justified! Do I shoot HTL in 12's? Yes, I did. But that was 10 yrs ago. Before I started packing these light "little killas"
Quote from: DocHolliday on May 02, 2012, 08:34:41 AM
Where HTL makes the most impact is in the 20 or 28 gauge or in the .410. The ability to drop down in size to 7 or smaller in guns with small payloads and have patterns that match or even beat the big bores makes it more than justified!
:icon_thumright:
That's very true. You can use Hevi-13 in a 20GA and get better patterns than you can with the best shooting 12GA lead loads.
Quote from: Fastcat on May 01, 2012, 09:46:41 PM
One of the replies stated that hevi shot allows for more pellets per oz. That doesnt add up. There should be less pellets per oz in a given shot size with hevi vs lead.
You're only halfway there. While hevi has less pellets per ounce of a given shot size when compared to lead, it's more dense and each pellet is heavier than lead. This allows the shooter to select smaller size shot which provides more pellets on target. Those smaller hevi pellets hit as hard as lead shot which is 1-2 sizes larger.
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on May 01, 2012, 11:15:45 AM
I was thinking of trying the new heavy loads on the market. I have some free time and was about to give it a try until I got to the store :o
Why? Over my entire turkey hunting career I have only gone 1 year without a bird. I now the limits of my gun and feel 35 and under is a dead bird walking.
I can be persuaded so give it your best shot.
But for $5 a shot for a bird? WOW
With what I spend on licenses, clothing, calls, gear, gas, and motels, $5 is really immaterial to me. I use the Fed HW #7 in 3 1/2, and they do cost about $5/shell, but I know what the outcome is going to be when I pull the trigger.
My father said it was a waste of money to spend $5 a shell untill he saw the pattern they threw out at 40 yards. It was a crazy difference with the lead shots getting like maybe 20 holes in 10" to 200+ with hevi. The HTL loads can give you a denser pattern because you can use a #6 or#7 and still get the same or even more knock down power. Plus you get a better chance to ethically kill the birds at farther distances..If you get a box of 5 it will last you at least a whole season. Depending on how good of a shot you are ;D
All of the HTL pellets (HeviShot and TSS) have an extra advantage over lead shot. As stated, they are more dense than lead and allow you to step down in size and still deliver the same foot/pounds of down range energy as much larger lead sizes. This translates to a more dense pattern. The HTL pellets also have another advantage, they physically have a smaller diameter which translates into less wind resistance so they don't slow down as fast and less flesh resistance during impact and penetration. The HTL pellets are able to make their way through heavy breast feathers and flesh/bones which can effectively stop lead pellets resulting in wounded birds. Many people shooting HTL shells report having no shot present in the birds due to complete pellet pass-through.
FullChoke
Switch to a 20 ga, get yourself some federal HW. 7s for 14.99 a box then it's only 3 dollars a shell. If you only buy one box you get a 7 dollar rebate so then it's only a 1.25 a shell.
I've always been a #4 lead shooter until recent years, when I switched to HTL. I've taken my share of 35+ yard shots and never crippled a bird, but they had a lot of flopping and several still had open blinking eyes. It's just a matter of time though until one flys off injuried. I've shot probably between 15 to 20 gobblers now with the HTL loads and I have yet to experience the flopping or blinking eyes. They aren't going anywhere.
Yeah, dead is dead....but I like the more dead that HTL brings. Makes me sleep better knowing I didn't feed any coyotes.
It doesn't matter to me if you shoot lead or HTL Personally I don't care if you want to pick up a handful of rocks and throw it at the bird.
But what I can tell you is that I get a tighter More consistant pattern at 40 yards with HTL #6 than I do with the Lead #6. This better pattern will provide more pellets in the head and neck than the lead shot. The more pellets in the head and neck the better chance of a clean ethical kill. To me it is worth $2 or $3 a shell (should only need 1 per bird) to get that Clean kill.
Quote from: Full Flight on May 08, 2012, 12:27:18 PM
It doesn't matter to me if you shoot lead or HTL Personally I don't care if you want to pick up a handful of rocks and throw it at the bird.
But what I can tell you is that I get a tighter More consistant pattern at 40 yards with HTL #6 than I do with the Lead #6. This better pattern will provide more pellets in the head and neck than the lead shot. The more pellets in the head and neck the better chance of a clean ethical kill. To me it is worth $2 or $3 a shell (should only need 1 per bird) to get that Clean kill.
:agreed:
I bought some to try out.
Time to let the pattern do the talk'n ;D
Don't forget to get a choke tube designed for htl loads.
Quote from: archery1 on May 01, 2012, 11:27:55 AM
i shoot a mossberg 835.. shot 2 types of winchester shells, 2 kinds of federal , remington nitro and other shells.all in 5 or 6 shot . the winchester shot very good out to 25 yards . but fell apart( really bad) at 40 . it was not even close to half the pellets in a 10 or 20" circle at 40. i forget the numbers i had at 25 yards but it would kill for sure.. i was just amazed after 25 yards how terrible the shells were. now for the hevi shells. they shot good at 25 ,30 35,and 40 ,was absolutely amazing compared to the other shells. i think i can push it further but i won't!!!! . i shot the ssx , indian creek an another choke when i tested the patterns last year. i went with a sumtoy choke cause the choke threw a better pattern than the others. oh i only shot 3" shells think my numbers were 179 or so in a 10" circle at 40
if you couldn't get a pattern to work past 25-30yds in the 835,then you have/had a choke tube problem
Quote from: bawana on May 08, 2012, 06:26:26 PM
Don't forget to get a choke tube designed for htl loads.
Thinking about giving the magnum blends a try. Does anyone know if my Jellyhead choke will work with these shells out of my SBE?
Jellyhead should give you decent numbers mine does in a 870
Thanks Ohiostrutter. I just ordered hevi13 3" 6's so I will give them a try. Im very interested to see how they compare to the WIN XRHD shells I have been using.
Quote from: lunghit on May 13, 2012, 09:13:39 AM
Thanks Ohiostrutter. I just ordered hevi13 3" 6's so I will give them a try. Im very interested to see how they compare to the WIN XRHD shells I have been using.
I have a SBE II and it's very particular about what it likes. With the old Hevi shot (Remington) 3 1/2" #6 1 3/4 oz.and a Jellyhead...shoots VERY well. Hevi 13 (old white with overwad) 1 3/4 oz.#6 shoots VERY well with Kicks Gooblin' Thunder .655, BUT not designed for Hevi, Wrights turkey #3 with 1 3/4 oz. 3" Hevi 13 (old white shells) nice tight pattern, some fliers low right.
Allaboutshooting.com is a good resource for SBE II performance
Lunghit, how did the Hevi13's work out for you? Did you get a Hevi13 Choke tube as
well? Let me know your thoughts....
[/quote]
wingseeker The Hevi13's worked out very good. I started a thread and posted my results after patterning my gun. I dont know how to post the link but if you search here you will find it. And yes I did buy the Hevi choke and found it to be the best combo. I have bought some 3 1/2" 6 hevi shot and 3" 7 to try also but im just waiting for this heat wave to go away. I will post those results too.
Quote from: goblr77 on May 01, 2012, 02:37:45 PM
When I go hunting my main objective is to kill turkeys. Paying an extra $3 per turkey for the added efficiency HTL shot gives me isn't even an afterthought.
This.
I will pay $7 for a gobbling long beard anyday of the week. Hevi13 absolutely has crushed some birds for me. I definitely feel more confident shooting them.
I feel the best deal in HTL loads are the Win XRHD's, if you can get find a choke that shoots them well through your gun.
My gun shop has them for 45.00 for a box of 10. 4.50 a round isn't too bad for a premium shell, and they hit like a hammer!
The cost of these shells is very small compared to the cost of guns, calls, decoys, etc. etc. so there price is worth it for the added advantages to me. Each shell should be a dead turkey after finding the right combo. Get a buddy or two to share the cost of trying different shells and possible choke tubes.
Quote from: frank1969 on May 01, 2012, 02:00:03 PM
many years ago the shot com loded shells called duplex 4 5 6 and tes they put holes in papper to your mag blends just use 7 shot not the 4 shot i have personaly killed over 100 birds never lost one all with LEAD so if your thing is keepen up with the joneses that your call Like the decoy thing zink dsd y pay that much just to say i got one im still usen feather flex and yes the toms come to them just like they do to the high end ones and yes dead is dead.
Frank,
You may very well be the only person in the history of turkey huntin to kill over 100 birds and have never lost one. I guess I will have to stop saying that if a fella hunts long enough it is going to happen.
At one time, I was one of the "dead is dead fellas". And while I still agree that there is only one degree of dead, I also admit there are several degrees of crippled birds and I am going to do whatever I can to insure a clean kill, and whatever ammunition can get that done for me is what I am going to go with.
The turning point for me was several years ago in the NW corner of Nebraska. I was fulfilling a lifelong dream to finally get to hunt Merriams. I called what would have been my first Merriams longbeard in. The wind was howling and I also misjudged the distance a little in the alfalfa field, but he was still well within range for the shells I now shoot and should have been a dead bird with lead--I believe the wind was the real factor. I shot and the bird went down and came up flying. I shot again and knocked him out of the air and he kept on running. I found enough feathers to make a pillow, but never found the bird. I had spent hundreds of dollars for gas, licenses, food, and lodging, but balked at the idea of spending five or six dollars for something that I have no doubt would have been the difference between walking out with that bird slung over my shoulder and doing the dejected hunter walk back to the truck.
I didn't go the heavy shot route, but I now shoot Nitro shells and when I pull the trigger, I know it's going to be a dead bird--No neck ringing involved.
I do have a 20 gauge that is a bona fide killer that my kids shoot. After reading all of this, it looks like I may be shooting hevi 7's in it.
Quote from: Hooksfan on July 30, 2012, 02:06:26 PM
Frank,
And while I still agree that there is only one degree of dead, I also admit there are several degrees of crippled birds
You nailed it down pretty good with that....
Quote from: wingseeker on August 05, 2012, 10:39:00 AM
Cripples are NO GOOD....that is a major reason the HeviShot family of shells
is so effective....their density greatly improves your chances of making a
bird "dead on arrival."
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Quote from: wingseeker on May 12, 2012, 09:41:17 AM
The HEVISHOT shells (Hevi13 and Magnum Blend) are simply the best turkey
shells that I have ever encountered. THey pattern better than anything that
I have used and are deadly out to extreme distances. The density of the
HeviShot enables them to travel out further with more energy and equates to
the ability to make LONGER KILLING shots.
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