Now I would like to start off saying that I do not know a lot about shells and guns, but I do know how to kill a turkey... And very well... hahahahaha anyways I was always taught that the lower the number (#4s) would have more knock down power than say a higher number load like (#7's) however the higher load would have more pellets... I have noticed that many people are switching to the hevi 7's Im just wondering the logic that is behind the decision. This year for me I made one of the worst decisions ive ever made, i switched from shooting WIN XR to Mag blends.. I patterned my gun and it did alright. Well anyways lets just say I had some birds get away that shouldnt have... Moved back to the XR and havent had any problems... If you could answer my question about the #7's I would appreciate it!
Thanks
I love the heavy 7's killed several birds a hair over 40 yards ... no problem .. nothing wrong with the magblends either... enough energy in both to kill beyond if your pattern is there..... everybody misses a time or two...
Pattern Density
You had birds "get away" from Mag Blends? Hmmm...
More shot in the kill zone .
Pattern density mainly but with that being said I had a box of Mag Blends from two years ago and decided to use them this year with great results....... as usual. I have had great results with 7's and will be using them too as I have 5 boxes. You said the Mag Blends patterned OK which to me indicates either you either missed or the birds were too far away to shoot. Maybe you can explain how the birds "got away".
They pattern great on paper but I also believe more people are actually starting to move away from them and toward other shells such as the Win XRHD #6's.
To answer your question, what you were told is old school logic when we all shot lead, and I am not too sure it was totally valid then. But the heaver than lead (HTL) shot retains downrange energy better than lead. A #7 HTL shot is going to have the downrange energy of about a #5 lead, #6 HTL about the energy of a #4 lead. So with the energy that HTL shot retains, it only makes sense to increase the number of pellets in the shell by going to a smaller shot size. More shot with equilivent energy equals more hits and cleaner kills.
I am in full agreement with you about the Winchester XR Shells, I shoot XR #6 myself. Small shot, high numbers, higher velocity, and higher retained energy makes them some highly effective shells and I would not trade them for H13 #7. Now if Winchester were to come out with XR #7's... I would be interested.
Quote from: turkeykiller22 on April 30, 2012, 08:15:12 PM
First bird that I did not end up with this year, was standing 59 yds when I shot at him. I have killed plenty of birds at distance before. Neck was fully extended when i shot too. Second bird was 28 yds. I had to shoot through a blown down dead tree, when I shot the bird flew straight up in the air about 7-8 feet, then slammed straight into the ground. He slowly got up and ran towards a clear cut when he got to the clear cut he proceeded to fly off...
59 yards is too far to consistently kill birds with any commercially loaded shell and shooting through a blown down tree isn't such a great idea either. Maybe you should wait for better shots.
As for the #7 Hevi loads, they will flat out kill birds.
I got to witness Sunday what #7 hevishot will do to a bird at 30 yards. Talk about a jelly head........
You may notice that there a few post missing.
Thats because, Nothing Over 40 means Nothing Over 40!
Not the shells. Pure coincidence that the other birds fell. Maybe you are flinching from the MB? They do pack some punch.
??? ??? ???
Quote from: Old Gobbler on April 18, 2012, 08:01:45 PM
This is in response to a select few{no names} ---- I don't have the time and patience to PM you all with things I have gone over several times politely --- over and over , the talk of taking ridiculous shots publicly on this site has gone on too long - Today talk of 91 yard shots in the reloading section
lets try this again ...... Ill leave out names , and keep this as professional as possible - if you want a more in depth look at what we are talking about look at the thou shall /image control post sticky
1) What you do on your own time is your business...when you post { long shots} on this forum it causes me issues
2) If you shoot longs shots , talk about , hint about, skirt around it ....keep it to your self - DO NOT POST IT HERE IT CREATES ISSUES FOR ME AND THE SITE - again do what you want we don't want to hear about it if it is beyond 40 yards
3) Long shots and the talk of it encourages other folks to do the same MONKEY SEE .....MONKEY DO -Me and the mods have lost count of how many ugly eye crippled gobbler long shot posts on this site -- then here is the kicker ....they are mad not at themselves but at the equipment ---where did they get the idea to shoot at a gobbler at 55+ yards ???? right here on OG
4) We got allot of cooperation from 99.9% of the forum members on this issue to clean up the site and help preserve the image of the site and most importantly stop influencing clueless newbies to take and feel entitled to take long shots ......thank you :icon_thumright:
5) However we got some folks {very small amount }(no names)that just don't get what we are trying to do , trying to skirt around it and just keep up at without regard to the problems it is causing the image of turkey hunting , this site and so on -
again what you do is your own business , including selling the components to reloading --we are not asking or telling anyone to do anything on their own time -what we are insisting do not post about plus 40 yards on the site publicly for the before mentioned credible reasons , it is the right and morally responsible thing to do for the wild turkey an the image of wild turkey hunting
its a free site .....people visit & post here on their own free will every day - its safe to say that the nearly 4,000 members{ plus guests} feel the way we do about turkey hunting or they wouldn't visit here ------ if you however feel you can not comply with this very reasonable and responsible thing publicly than we have reached a irreconcilable difference , and I have no other suggestion{ we are not backing down ....} for you to rethink your outlook on the activity of turkey hunting if its even right for you , or take a break from OG altogether
Best regards--Shannon
I'll tell you why. Because they work and kill with exceptional shot density out to 40yds with a fudge factor to boot. Anyone on here who does their howmework and shoots Hevi-13 7's in either 2oz or 2.25oz loads and patterns their gun with the right choke so it centers your pattern with your point of aim with whether it be 200 shot or up to 350 shot in a 10" at 40yds and you shoot a gobbler at that same distance and do your part in centering that pattern over the head and neck that bird is going to die each and everytime with no ands, ifs or buts. And if it don't you simply missed. I hear all these internet stories of 7's not cutting the mustard. Well the truth be told is the shooter simply missed and wants a way out to explain his poor shooting skill. So he blames the shot size.
Sounds to me that you took shots at birds that you never should have in the first place.
Thats not a problem with the shells you were using. Truth hurts sometimes.
You show me the bird that can get up and walk away from a pattern like this at 40yds and I'll personally shake its foot and I'll quit shooting Hevi-13 #7's. But it ain't going to happen. Not when you can put around 120 shot in the head and neck alone. That bird will die before it even hits the ground. Regardless if he does flop.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/brad541thb/DSCF2946Medium.jpg)
Yea. I'm not so sure that mag blends are the problem. The two birds I have shot with them didn't stand a chance. Shots were 36 and 39 yds and it mangled them.
Quote from: AngryBird on April 30, 2012, 09:12:59 PM
You may notice that there a few post missing.
Thats because, Nothing Over 40 means Nothing Over 40!
Sorry AngryBird had not read what you posted. Thank you for sharing this with me. I am sorry I caused this, and it will not happen again.
Yer gonna and are getting hammered right now because you took unethical shots pure and simple. That and I think a combination of user error and its no wonder you crippled birds. That's exactly what you did btw...crippled and likely doomed those birds to a slow and painfull death. Darn good at killing turkeys? Not from reading your posts you aren't. I shot my best PA bird in 28 years today with heavyweight 7s...out of my 20 gauge! Almost 22 1/2 pounds and thick! He twitched a couple times and every single pellet in the bottom of the pattern that entered the left side at the top of the breast/ back went all the way through him to his right side! THAT is why I shoot 7s...and don't need to make excuses for wounding birds. Learn to get em closer and you won't "need" to take those kinds of shots...
There is a chart on this forum that lists the shot count per ounce by chemical make up and density, mass, etc.
The 20 gauge Federal HW 3" 1 1/2 ounce load of #7 shot contains 246 shot. That is more than a LEAD 2oz. load of 12 gauge #4(198), nearly as many as the #5 (251), and only 39 pellets less than a 1 3/4 oz. of #6s.
The recoil is much lighter in the 20, the gun is lighter to tote, and the #7 HW hits with the authority of the #5 in lead.
A hevi13 , whether it is 12 g/cc or the old 13 g/cc, is still denser than lead at 10.6 g/cc and these loads do hold tighter patterns at longer distances.
Does this mean that lead is no good any more? No. But for the reasons listed above it is why so many have gone to #7 HW or H-13 . I also believe that the movement toward the 20 gauge for turkey hunting has pushed the #7 use and there are several states that now allow shot smaller than #6 to be used. Many hunters have no idea of the state regulations on legal shot size for certain game animals.
Know your shot limitations before hunting any game. This includes your capability as well.
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on May 01, 2012, 12:10:59 AM
Yer gonna and are getting hammered right now because you took unethical shots pure and simple. That and I think a combination of user error and its no wonder you crippled birds. That's exactly what you did btw...crippled and likely doomed those birds to a slow and painfull death. Darn good at killing turkeys? Not from reading your posts you aren't. I shot my best PA bird in 28 years today with heavyweight 7s...out of my 20 gauge! Almost 22 1/2 pounds and thick! He twitched a couple times and every single pellet in the bottom of the pattern that entered the left side at the top of the breast/ back went all the way through him to his right side! THAT is why I shoot 7s...and don't need to make excuses for wounding birds. Learn to get em closer and you won't "need" to take those kinds of shots...
THIS^^^^^^^^^
advertising and energy claims about Hevi-Shot has given hunter too much range confidence, You hear guys brag more about how far they killed rather than how close they called them in... I know I've been guilty of this mind set so I'm not pointing fingers
I've been using the Fed HW #7 in 3 1/2 for two years now and the knockdown power is just flat out amazing!!
First off I do not condone the distance that he shot at but back off the judging. The rule here is to stick to 40 yards. That is great advice but I would be lying to say that through misjudging distance I have not shot farther, never intentionally.
You should have never shot at a bird that far. I have done it in the past when I was dumb and before I know what harm I was causing. I will not be judgemental cause I have myself made poor choices.
I do not know whether you shot this far from ignorance or arrogance, but it was one of the two. When I did it, it was from ignorance but the one time I did it I learned why you should not do it and is why I learned the proper way to pattern and ethical distances to shoot.
I hope you shot this far in ignorance for that can be fixed with you understanding why it is a bad decision to shoot this far, especially with lead number 4s, but with any shot! 40 yards should be your limit but I think we all would be lying if we said that we did not set up or guns for ethical kills when we misjudge distance, but understand that misjudging distance is normally just 5 -10 yards and not 25-30.
I know you are a good person and a good hunter, I have seen that. I hope you learn the proper and ethical way to shoot a turkeys and all other game. Good Luck and I offer my little bit of knowledge if I can help. If I cannot then I will find someone that can.
I like them, in hevi 13 and Fed fcw. kills all of them.
I shot a bird with Hevi 13 7's this year...I too was skeptical but even with a gun/choke/sight set up that wasn't really shooting directly at point of aim and no adjustment possible I went with it and dusted that bird at 33 yards, could only see head and a little neck through some grass in a creek but he never took a step. Plenty of pellets in the head/neck (27 with a quick count) I definitely believe the 7's have the juice and they have patterned well, better than 5's and 6's which I also tried. Killed another one at similar range with Hevi 13 5's and while he was just as dead he was not shot up as much which was concerning...Still looking for a final combination to choose a long term load but I was not unhappy with the 7's...does sound like your shot selection was partially to blame, any load, lead, HTL, Steel etc will kill a turkey at extreme range if you get lucky and put a pellet in the right spot but I wouldn't call it ethical. I know this, I will shoot 6's and 7's going forward, no more room in my vest for 4's or 5's after seeing the patterns and hunting results...at 40 yards it really shouldn't matter, any of them will post a killing pattern at that range if you pick the right shot