I have a H&K Benelli Super Black Eagle and with truglo pro series rifle sights I can not change the POI. I have moved the sights all the way up and down with no change. It has the "D" shim which is the lowest drop and I have ordered an A and B shim...do you think this could correct the problem?
Also, could I shoot it safely without any shims? Would it hurt the gun?
Thank you for your time and consideration
From my experiance changing shims will without a doubt change your POI. I shoot an SBEII and use the B shim. It shoots a little high using the front bead but I recently put a Burris Speed Beed on it and it is the best sight I have tryed on this gun. Just wish the little red dot was a bit smaller.
Thank you for your reply...I am hoping the shims will solve the problem...will shooting without a shim at all hurt the gun?
Quote from: ahaga09 on April 11, 2012, 07:40:17 AM
I have a H&K Benelli Super Black Eagle and with truglo pro series rifle sights I can not change the POI. I have moved the sights all the way up and down with no change. It has the "D" shim which is the lowest drop and I have ordered an A and B shim...do you think this could correct the problem?
Also, could I shoot it safely without any shims? Would it hurt the gun?
Thank you for your time and consideration
I have a 1991 model H&K SBE. The original barrel, a 26", shoots low at 40 yards but is right on as far as windage.
I currently have a set of Truglo Pro Series open sights on that barrel and it shoots right to POA.
How much is your gun off and in what directions(s)?
Moving the sights should more your POI, some at least.
Thanks,
Clark
The gun is dead on left/right....but it is shooting 6" low consistently...moving the sights didn't change the POI....I am not sure why but I am hoping the shims will help
Quote from: ahaga09 on April 11, 2012, 02:33:38 PM
The gun is dead on left/right....but it is shooting 6" low consistently...moving the sights didn't change the POI....I am not sure why but I am hoping the shims will help
Most of the early H&K Benelli SBEs shot low. You can correct the elevation pretty easily. The shims can help or you could just add some height to the comb of your gun. It does not take much, a neoprene sleeve could easily do it for you if it's 6" or so at 40 yards.
I am a bit puzzled however by the POI not changing when you move the sights.
Thanks,
Clark
P.S. You may find this article to be of help to you with your shims http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/do-shotgun-stock-shims-matter
I have the same problem with my H&K SBE. Peolpe always change the shims but I do not get it. Will some one please tell me how changing a shim will change the POI with the gun in a vise looking down the rib. I can see how it will affect the way the gun is shouldered and pointed wingshooting, but not when you are locked in on a vise sighting down the rib.
Thanks for that article...it truly is amazing what "that little plastic wafer" will do....my A and B shims should be in friday so I am hoping they will solve the problem....I will post results when I test it out
I am still looking for an answer to my question above about the shims. I admit my ignorance in this matter so I would really like someone to help me see the light before I spend any money on new shims for my low shooting H&K SBE. Allaboutshooting, you are certainly very knowledgeable on these types of matters.
Quote from: ncquackersmacker on April 12, 2012, 05:53:59 PM
I am still looking for an answer to my question above about the shims. I admit my ignorance in this matter so I would really like someone to help me see the light before I spend any money on new shims for my low shooting H&K SBE. Allaboutshooting, you are certainly very knowledgeable on these types of matters.
The shims change the angles of the stock, drop, cast, etc. When you shoulder the gun the position of your cheek on the comb of the stock and its relationship to the bore of the gun will effect the point of impact of the shot.
You may want to read the article that I referenced earlier http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/do-shotgun-stock-shims-matter
It illustrates pretty clearly how changing the shims can effect the pattern.
When we discuss point of impact, we must always remember that the point of impact is always relative to the point of aim. In order for a change in the POI to take place, there must be a change in the position of your cheek, relative to the bore.
If you had the receiver of a gun locked into a vise you could change the angle(s) of the stock without any effect on the POI, unless at the same time you were "behind the gun" with the butt in the normal position and your cheek on the comb of the stock. Then you would have changed your POA.
As you change the angle(s) your POI relative to POA would change because you've changed the position of your cheek to the bore.
Make sense?
Thanks,
Clark
Thanks Clark. So with my gun in a lead sled on a bench as long as I am looking down the rib with my middle bead lined up with my front bead shims and stock angle have nothing to do with it. The way I see it shim and stock angle are only an issue with how the gun points and how it fits you. As an example, a gun with rifle sights is going to shoot to the same POI no matter how it is shimed if the sights are lined up. For that matter you could take the stock off the gun and it will shoot where it is aimed. Thank you for your patients and input but this is something I would really like to get to the bottom of.
NC,
Have you fired the gun shouldered? if so, is it doing the same thing? Maybe you can correct the problem with it shouldered since you won't be taking the vice with you when you go turkey hunting. I am not saying that to be funny. I am just saying it is all in how you fire the weapon. Someone may hand me a gun that is "sighted in" but unless I can fire it accurately it really doesn't mean anything.
I certainly understand what you are saying and you are correct about everyone shooting a gun differently. However, I do not see it unlike a rifle which you zero of with rest. Without that point of refernece and knowing where it shoots with no human element you have no foundation to work off of. Again, to me the shims address the human element not the mechanical element. I am thankful for the input I look forward to more opinions.
Well guys I have hit a road block...I tried the A and B shims after switching out the D shim and the POI has not changed...I have adjusted to rifle sights to the max up and down and still the gun shoots 6" low every time...I have no clue what to do...anyone have any suggestions before it goes on the market?
Quote from: ahaga09 on April 19, 2012, 09:23:24 AM
Well guys I have hit a road block...I tried the A and B shims after switching out the D shim and the POI has not changed...I have adjusted to rifle sights to the max up and down and still the gun shoots 6" low every time...I have no clue what to do...anyone have any suggestions before it goes on the market?
Contact Benelli??
Not to be rude but that is why I said what I did about the shims. The way I see it they have nothing to do with where the gun shoots just where it points. As for being six inches low, I could live with that just cover his head. It is a shame that almost everyone with a HK SBE has the same problem. I really love my gun and do not want to have to switch for turkey hunting.
Quote from: ahaga09 on April 19, 2012, 09:23:24 AM
Well guys I have hit a road block...I tried the A and B shims after switching out the D shim and the POI has not changed...I have adjusted to rifle sights to the max up and down and still the gun shoots 6" low every time...I have no clue what to do...anyone have any suggestions before it goes on the market?
I just want to make sure I understand how you're shooting that gun. You do not have it clamped into a vise, correct?
You are shooting the gun with it mounted to your shoulder with your cheek on the comb of the stock?
If you add height to your comb, you can try just about anything, it will change your point of impact. (You could use a towel and some duct tape just so you'll see what happens.)
When you change the angles, the POI changes, since your cheek is tight against the comb of the stock and you are looking down the rib of the barrel or in your case through the sights.
You can demonstrate this most easily at a short distance like 25-30 yards with a full choke or turkey choke, by shooting at "big paper" at least 3 feet x 3 feet with a dot in the center of the paper.
I'd recommend that you just sit on the ground, like you would when you're turkey hunting, no rest, and aim at the dot on the paper.
Something has to change when you change the angles.
Thanks,
Clark
Allaboutshooting,
Thank you for continuing in trying to help me figure this out...here is what I am doing...I am sitting just like you said at about 20 yds no rest with the gun shouldered just as if I was hunting...I am using a really tight turkey choke (in the 640s) and using tru glo pro series sights...the left and right POI is perfect...but I have adjusted to sights up and down all the way trying to get the POI to move...not only can I not bring it up but I cant lower it either (I just wanted to see if it would change at all)....every shot is about 6" low...i have never had this happen nor ever heard of it happening...the part that really puzzles me is the fact that the sights are not moving the POI....sorry for the long post
You may want to take those sights off. They might not have the adjustment needed to change it. Maybe even try a different load. I have had a problem like that with a 535 shooting an IC choke and Win extended using the Williams fire sights. I change loads and bingo. I have also seen where the choke doesn't tighten up square. A freind of mine had to put a thin brass shim in between the choke and barrel on his Extrema to move his POI because the choke didn't tighten up square with the bore.
Hey guys, Well I can attest for ahaga's problem here. I'm his brother and if not for his patience i would have thrown this gun over a brush pile by now. I got a different choke to try this evening and some different loads to play with. We'll keep ya posted. I can't for the life of me figure out how a gun shoots the same POI from shooting it with just the vent rib and bead, to putting on a set of TruGlo pro series sights adjusted max both ways and tring 3 differnet shims no change what so ever.
Quote from: ahaga09 on April 19, 2012, 08:55:29 PM
Allaboutshooting,
Thank you for continuing in trying to help me figure this out...here is what I am doing...I am sitting just like you said at about 20 yds no rest with the gun shouldered just as if I was hunting...I am using a really tight turkey choke (in the 640s) and using tru glo pro series sights...the left and right POI is perfect...but I have adjusted to sights up and down all the way trying to get the POI to move...not only can I not bring it up but I cant lower it either (I just wanted to see if it would change at all)....every shot is about 6" low...i have never had this happen nor ever heard of it happening...the part that really puzzles me is the fact that the sights are not moving the POI....sorry for the long post
You're welcome. I know how frustrating it can be when a gun just doesn't want to do what we need it to do.
If you have the rear sight mounted (on the rib) near the receiver, let me suggest that you move it so that the front of the rear sight is 15" from the rear of the front sight. Do everything else just as you've been doing it and see if that will change your point of impact.
Thanks,
Clark
As a follow up to my low shooting SBE (almost a foot), after trying every shim available with no change in POI a finally got drastitc. At my wits end I decided to use the forked tree method. It did not take very much pressure a I really did not feel like I done any thing but the POI changed to dead on. After 5 shots at everything from 10 to 40 yards I was more than pleased with my adjustment. Honestly, I wish I'd bit the bullet a done it two months ago. It would have saved me a good amount on H-13 shells. I would still use this as a last resort but when all else fails it is an option.