This morning I was scouting some public land. I found a great spot that looked like perfect turkey habitat. Didnt see much sign, but it had the food plot, creek, roosting trees etc. I tried a locator call and didn't hear a thing. Pulled out my mouth call and BAM a gobble about 100yds away. I waited for about 5 minutes and tried again, BAM he gobbled again. He hadn't closed much distance so I hurried and left the area. I always heard it was taboo to call while scouting. I'm glad I did cause now I know where to concentrate my efforts opening morning. What say you?
I would rather not turkey call while scouting, but since you backed out of the area and did not spook him, you will probably be ok.
What kind of locater were you using? Sometimes a variety of locators is useful to have as well.
Not a good idea imo.
Quote from: jblackburn on March 23, 2012, 04:58:41 PM
I would rather not turkey call while scouting, but since you backed out of the area and did not spook him, you will probably be ok.
What kind of locater were you using? Sometimes a variety of locators is useful to have as well.
I tried a crow and an owl. Maybe I should get a hawk screamer.
What is the concern with doing this? Call shy, bump them, etc?
I was practicing in the woods yesterday and accidentally called up a hen. I wasn't prepared and spooked her. So be careful! But that sounds sweet.
Quote from: okiegobblers on March 23, 2012, 06:32:00 PM
What is the concern with doing this? Call shy, bump them, etc?
I would be most concerned with calling one up and spooking it. You run the risk of condition him to not come to the call.
I don't like doing it. My thinking is that you run the risk of spooking them. Also if a you are calling to a turkey and he comes in he is expecting to find a hen if he doesn't he may become wise to your calls. That being said I usually can't wait for the season to start and call a little bit from the road near my hunting areas to see if any are around.
Quote from: jblackburn on March 23, 2012, 08:28:00 PM
Quote from: okiegobblers on March 23, 2012, 06:32:00 PM
What is the concern with doing this? Call shy, bump them, etc?
I would be most concerned with calling one up and spooking it. You run the risk of condition him to not come to the call.
Yeah I agree with you guys. By the way I was using my Gooserbat Hillbilly. Can't wait to call him in with it on opening day!
Quote from: okiegobblers on March 23, 2012, 11:06:36 PM
Quote from: jblackburn on March 23, 2012, 08:28:00 PM
Quote from: okiegobblers on March 23, 2012, 06:32:00 PM
What is the concern with doing this? Call shy, bump them, etc?
I would be most concerned with calling one up and spooking it. You run the risk of condition him to not come to the call.
Yeah I agree with you guys. By the way I was using my Gooserbat Hillbilly. Can't wait to call him in with it on opening day!
Well, I'm glad to hear he liked the Hillbilly!
I was out this morning on a spot. It was a bit later. I tried the owl, nothing. I tried the crow, nothing. I broke out the K&H ghost cut mouth call. Gobble! Do what it takes, but don't get busted, or let him come in on you to nothing. We boot scooted out of there and they were none the wiser. :anim_25:
Our season isn't for over a month. I see absolutley zero problems with a little calling early in the year to get a bead on where the groups of birds are. I was out with a friend scouting yesterday morning, right at daylight. Nothing to a crow (as usual around these parts), nothing to an owl call. A couple clucks, purrs and a flydown cacle and BOOM 5 different answers from 5 different birds still on the roost at &:00 am. As soon as the hens started talking and belive me they were talkin, we moved out to another area and did the same routine to have 5 more answer a short series of fast yelps and clucks. I made ZERO calls after that and we just sat still as I had the camera with me and wanted to get a few pics if the opportunity arose. About 5 nimutes into our sit, the furthest west bird that answered could be seen comming at a half trot/half strut through the timber, cutting along the bottom edge of the bench we were on, looking for the "hen". He got withing 65 yards of us from over 350 yards out with ONE short call series! Exactly why I DID NOT make another call after I got those answers. He messed around for a couple of minutes poking his head up and then going back into half-strutt occasionally until the other dominant bird chimed in from off to our east about 150 yards out along the same bench we were on. As soon as the first bird heard that second gobbler he lost all interest in looking for that "hen" and made a bee line for the other gobbler, half strutting the whole way. I think some guys on here and other sites give these birds just a little bit too much credit in the "intelligence department" than they should. They have a brain the size of a PEANUT! They are a wary bird yes, but you are simply not going to "condition" a bird or spook a bird permanently by calling to them this early in the season! They aren't a deer, that will give that stand a look every time they go past it because the doofus that was in it 2 weeks ago stunk of cigarrette smoke and coffee and couldn't sit still to save his life. They will come to within TOUCHING distance of you in a blind that was popped up that morning, where litterally ANY other animal will freak out over it. They ARE NOT SMART...at least not the way people think they are. They have a genetically ingrained wariness and incredible eyesight atuned to movement that keeps them alive in a harsh and deadly world. Nothing more. Sometimes I do wonder though if maybe they are smarter than some of the folks that chase after them in the spring. Ever wonder where the term "Bird Brain" comes from???
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on March 24, 2012, 01:11:52 PM
Our season isn't for over a month. I see absolutley zero problems with a little calling early in the year to get a bead on where the groups of birds are. I was out with a friend scouting yesterday morning, right at daylight. Nothing to a crow (as usual around these parts), nothing to an owl call. A couple clucks, purrs and a flydown cacle and BOOM 5 different answers from 5 different birds still on the roost at &:00 am. As soon as the hens started talking and belive me they were talkin, we moved out to another area and did the same routine to have 5 more answer a short series of fast yelps and clucks. I made ZERO calls after that and we just sat still as I had the camera with me and wanted to get a few pics if the opportunity arose. About 5 nimutes into our sit, the furthest west bird that answered could be seen comming at a half trot/half strut through the timber, cutting along the bottom edge of the bench we were on, looking for the "hen". He got withing 65 yards of us from over 350 yards out with ONE short call series! Exactly why I DID NOT make another call after I got those answers. He messed around for a couple of minutes poking his head up and then going back into half-strutt occasionally until the other dominant bird chimed in from off to our east about 150 yards out along the same bench we were on. As soon as the first bird heard that second gobbler he lost all interest in looking for that "hen" and made a bee line for the other gobbler, half strutting the whole way. I think some guys on here and other sites give these birds just a little bit too much credit in the "intelligence department" than they should. They have a brain the size of a PEANUT! They are a wary bird yes, but you are simply not going to "condition" a bird or spook a bird permanently by calling to them this early in the season! They aren't a deer, that will give that stand a look every time they go past it because the doofus that was in it 2 weeks ago stunk of cigarrette smoke and coffee and couldn't sit still to save his life. They will come to within TOUCHING distance of you in a blind that was popped up that morning, where litterally ANY other animal will freak out over it. They ARE NOT SMART...at least not the way people think they are. They have a genetically ingrained wariness and incredible eyesight atuned to movement that keeps them alive in a harsh and deadly world. Nothing more. Sometimes I do wonder though if maybe they are smarter than some of the folks that chase after them in the spring. Ever wonder where the term "Bird Brain" comes from???
Dag-gone, I couldn't agree more!!
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on March 24, 2012, 01:11:52 PM
Our season isn't for over a month. I see absolutley zero problems with a little calling early in the year to get a bead on where the groups of birds are. I was out with a friend scouting yesterday morning, right at daylight. Nothing to a crow (as usual around these parts), nothing to an owl call. A couple clucks, purrs and a flydown cacle and BOOM 5 different answers from 5 different birds still on the roost at &:00 am. As soon as the hens started talking and belive me they were talkin, we moved out to another area and did the same routine to have 5 more answer a short series of fast yelps and clucks. I made ZERO calls after that and we just sat still as I had the camera with me and wanted to get a few pics if the opportunity arose. About 5 nimutes into our sit, the furthest west bird that answered could be seen comming at a half trot/half strut through the timber, cutting along the bottom edge of the bench we were on, looking for the "hen". He got withing 65 yards of us from over 350 yards out with ONE short call series! Exactly why I DID NOT make another call after I got those answers. He messed around for a couple of minutes poking his head up and then going back into half-strutt occasionally until the other dominant bird chimed in from off to our east about 150 yards out along the same bench we were on. As soon as the first bird heard that second gobbler he lost all interest in looking for that "hen" and made a bee line for the other gobbler, half strutting the whole way. I think some guys on here and other sites give these birds just a little bit too much credit in the "intelligence department" than they should. They have a brain the size of a PEANUT! They are a wary bird yes, but you are simply not going to "condition" a bird or spook a bird permanently by calling to them this early in the season! They aren't a deer, that will give that stand a look every time they go past it because the doofus that was in it 2 weeks ago stunk of cigarrette smoke and coffee and couldn't sit still to save his life. They will come to within TOUCHING distance of you in a blind that was popped up that morning, where litterally ANY other animal will freak out over it. They ARE NOT SMART...at least not the way people think they are. They have a genetically ingrained wariness and incredible eyesight atuned to movement that keeps them alive in a harsh and deadly world. Nothing more. Sometimes I do wonder though if maybe they are smarter than some of the folks that chase after them in the spring. Ever wonder where the term "Bird Brain" comes from???
I agree they are not smart, but they can be conditioned to be wary of extra loud mouth hen calling. Just like any animal can be conditioned to do (or not do) something. I.e. pavlov's dog experiment
That isn't conditioning to one volume of call over another though. I hunt some ares that you litterally almost have to out call the hens at flydown or you won't see a bird they call so much and so loud. Other areas I hunt...the one I was at yesterday...the hens are loud and racious on the roost and then you almost need hearing enhancers to hear them on the ground. It is ALL dictated by how the hens respond and call to the gobblers in how I call from one given location to another. I hunted one area a couple springs ago where as soon as the hens hit the ground, they were RUNNING as fast as they could to get to the gobblers. The only way I could get a shot was to roost them the night before and get in between the hens and gobblers while it was pitch black dark out and then call my @$$ off as soon as I heard the first hen sound off in the roost. I might not call the same way in one spot that I might in another. Also, no matter what call you have in your mouth or your hands, you NEED to be practicing with it. You should be able to get quiet on that bat wing cut raspy call just like you should on that double reed. It all comes with practice, which I see too many new "hunters" relying on the cut of the call to give them the sound they think they need. I see so many different calls on the market designed for rasp, or volume or kee kees or what have you. I can get almost as raspy on my split double reed quaker boy screamin green diaphram as a lot of "hunters" can on that new double jagged cut 4 reed and vice versa when it comes to getting quiet. It all comes down to air pressure, presentation and mouth/tounge control. The bird that came in to within 65 yards or so was also a 4 year old bird btw! He had a ROPE the diameter of my wrist that was dragging the ground and hooks you could see with your naked eye at that range. Was I woried about boogering him? Sure, but only if I let him know exactly where I was at when he got within 100 yards or so, which I did not and would not do prior to the season. Birds (hens) can move around long distances very quickly and feed along and lose interest in one thing to another pretty quickly too. To me, that gobbler comming in looking for that "hen" just didn't get there fast enough and the hen had fed/moved on... Guys try to out think these birds when in my mind, they need to dumb it down a little and put themselves in the mindset of a gobbler. They aren't a bright bird. they'll do some seriously stupid stuff like gobbling their fool heads off right after you just DESTROYED their buddy with a healthy load of Hevi Shot and stand around kicking and spurring his twitching body until the hunter gets up and scares them off. I have even seen where dominant birds will decoy to nothing more than the head of a decoy on a stick! Yup, that's one brilliant bird right there! :TooFunny: Read the terrain, how the birds react to each other, your calls and above all FOOD. While the gobblers might not eat much durring the breeding season, the hens sure as heck do. No matter what, find the hens and you'll find the gobblers. That altruism seems to go for virtually every game species we hunt doesn't it? Find the girls and you'll get a shot at their boyfriends. That didn't sound right but you know what I mean. :TooFunny:
"Was I woried about boogering him? Sure, but only if I let him know exactly where I was at when he got within 100 yards or so, which I did not and would not do prior to the season."
This is exactly my point. You CAN condition them to not respond (meaning come in) to calls be calling too much before season (or during the season). The first post was about calling on a WMA, who knows how many other people have or will go out with there calls and try to get a gobble and not know to back out and not bump the bird. I am not arguing that turkeys are smart or that they "learn" but, they are programed to 1) Reporduce and 2) Survive. So we are able to kill gobblers when they are "love drunk". The same tom that is walking around like an idiot in April is a much more difficult bird to kill in the fall, we all know that.
As far as the comment about calls. Yes practice is important, in fact it is the most important thing you can do. And you are right, decent rasp can be achieved with a lot of styles of calls, but rasp really is not that important. The variouse cuts and stretches of calls affect pitch and tone as much as rasp.
In the fall, they aren't looking for er, um...tail? :TooFunny: They're looking for food and can be just as easy to kill in the fall as the spring if you have them patterned. In fact, ime, they can be very easy to find in the fall as they will still roost in the same general areas. They will still feed in the same general areas, all be it on different types of forage. What I think most guys come accross in the spring is that when they say that that bird wouldn't commit or hung up or just looked and then ran is that they are dealing with and seeing the birds' natural breeding responses. We as hunters try to get the toms to do the exact opposite of what they are programed to do...come to the "hen" rather than gobble and wait for the girls to come to them. How it manages to work so well is beyond me but I know one thing. When birds are henned up, I don't even try to call to the toms. I try to call to the hens in hopes of pulling them in and the gobbler just follows along. I have spooked birds by getting antsy or shifting from a sore but or just getting up to move to a new set and heard that PUTT!! Did I eat my hat and give up on that bird? Hecks no! I gave him a couple of days and went right back after him and more often than not put my tag on his leg. Turkeys are wary yes...SUPER WARY for sure, but they have short memories imo. One experience or a couple run ins isn't going to change how they respond. Sure you might not see that bird for a few days but they'll be around eventually. Thing is we have to learn not to do the same stupid midtakes over and over...and over. I here the same complaints from the same hunters too often because they don't seem to wana learn to be quiet, and patient, and learn how and when to call and how to set up, etc... They just keep making the same goofs and sure that bird isn't gonna stick around, but it also doesn't mean that if you give him time and then get after him again and DON'T MAKE THE SAME STUPID MISTAKES, you have a good chance of scoring. Sure, some birds are wired a bit tighter than others and it doesn't help to have every idiot weekend warrior and their brother tromping around the public property, spooking the birds and bumping them over the next ridge, but it certainly doesn't mean they aren't killable. I've done it often, where the guys I just left as they were headed out of the woods shaking their heads because that bird just wouldn't come in and I just get in when they're at work on a wednesday and smoke that bird within 200 yards of where they said they were set up...
When i was a kid i would do this, even call em in to watch em strut. I was always phobic they would "remember my voice" when season came in. I cant say thit this was ever the case, had years i killed and years i didnt. Calling a bird and spooking it wouldnt be something i would intentionally do, but if u pulled it off without him seeing u or busting you, he prob assumed the hen had moved on or found other company. Probably happens often in the woods. Its not a recommended practice, though, but in your case maybe it was th exception to the rule. Best to avoid turkey calls preseason and not take the chances, usually. Good luck in your hunt!
There really isn't a right or wrong answer but personally I don't do it. When scouting I want to get in and get out without drawing any attention to myself. Calling does just that and can end up causing you to spoke birds. Will they remember it, who knows but I had rather not take that chance. I've heard to many stories of guys calling while scouting and having birds sneak in never making a sound and getting busted.
Under no condition should call in the areas your planning on hunting unless you want to bone yourself!! We had a group of young punks a few years back in the 80's that used to drive around calling on areas they didn't hunt and educating them until a couple of conflicts caused them to stop doing it. :drool:
Well I have hunted in 7 different states and killed close to 100 birds with the majority here in PA and in that time I have never once felt like I was "educating" birds by calling to them, all be it sparingly yes in the pre season. Every single one of those birds but 3 or 4 were 2 years old or older and I knew where they were going to be, usually at least 2 weeks prior to the opener. The MONSTER That came in this past Friday I have no doubt I could turn right around and kill the very next morning after calling him in the day before... Every body has their way of doing it and to say one way is wrong over another way is just closed minded and ignorant. The way the birds work in your area could be completely different just a mile or two down the road, let alone in another state or time zone...
I call to them all the time.......seems to do more good than bad in my case. It keeps them nearby and curious. My dad calls them into his backyard and they are there a week before season till it's well over. Doesn't hurt a thing IMHO.
Quote from: FttFttVroom! on March 25, 2012, 04:40:36 PM
I call to them all the time.......seems to do more good than bad in my case. It keeps them nearby and curious. My dad calls them into his backyard and they are there a week before season till it's well over. Doesn't hurt a thing IMHO.
Wow that's good stuff. I like things that go against conventional thought. I think it must boil down to a guys opinion on turkey behavior. Those opinions I'm sure come from encounters with these birds. If a bird does one thing it's going to make a guy think a certain way. So there is no right or wrong on this topic just different experiences.
Quote from: okiegobblers on March 25, 2012, 09:44:50 PM
Quote from: FttFttVroom! on March 25, 2012, 04:40:36 PM
I call to them all the time.......seems to do more good than bad in my case. It keeps them nearby and curious. My dad calls them into his backyard and they are there a week before season till it's well over. Doesn't hurt a thing IMHO.
Wow that's good stuff. I like things that go against conventional thought. I think it must boil down to a guys opinion on turkey behavior. Those opinions I'm sure come from encounters with these birds. If a bird does one thing it's going to make a guy think a certain way. So there is no right or wrong on this topic just different experiences.
You got it! :icon_thumright:
I dont buy the "call shy" theory but I do think increased human presence will spook the birds enough to slow down gobbling activity and make them get a little more spooky than they would have been otherwise.
I also dont buy into the idea that if you call a bird in and he doesnt see a hen, he gets wiser to anything. I would almost guarantee you that this happens lord knows how many times in any given week to a turkey during the spring when he is looking for real hens...he goes to an area he heard a hen, and by the time he gets there, she's moved on and he cant find her. I just dont see turkey ever "putting this all together" and somehow associating this kind of stuff with hunters.
That being said, I usually try not to use hen calls when scouting because I think turkey are better at seeing us in the woods than we are them, in most cases, so when you use that hen call, you are asking them to look for you and if one does it silently and then you bump him (maybe even without knowing you did it) he's a little more on edge that people are in the woods. I still dont know that he realizes you were doing the call but I do think if this happens repeatedly, they will be less relaxed in these area's and start feeling "people shy".
Quote from: jblackburn on March 24, 2012, 02:17:06 PM
I agree they are not smart, but they can be conditioned to be wary of extra loud mouth hen calling. Just like any animal can be conditioned to do (or not do) something. I.e. pavlov's dog experiment
I just have a hard time believing that in the relatively short lifetime of a 2-3 year old turkey, they can learn all this conditioning over a 6 week turkey season...
Ive watched too many turkey walk up and down a 3 strand barb-wire fence, that they've likely crossed lord know's how many times before, because they cant figure out how to go over,under or around it....
I never make any kind of turkey sounds when scouting before the season. I don't even carry a turkey call. I look for sign and I listen ALOT. I do carry a crow call though.
Leave the call at home if it worried you but like someone else said if your season is along ways away I wouldn't worry too much but I deffinatley wouldn't try to call them in