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General Discussion => General Forum => Topic started by: Cutt on March 15, 2012, 12:45:44 PM

Title: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Cutt on March 15, 2012, 12:45:44 PM
Is there any rhyme or reason with State to State start dates? Our State of PA has always claimed it's start date coincides after the majority of hens have been breed?

So my thinking is other States would do the same? But if so, I always couldn't figure out why some Southern States start now, but PA does not start till April 28th? We are talking 43 days later here, which there is no way our birds are 43 days behind Southern birds, maybe a couple weeks max.?

Just never understood why so many States start way early as compared to a way too late start here? If all States started there seasons to coincide with basically the same breeding phase, something is way off? Or do other States just start their season when ever? Just think there has to be some logic with start dates, but hard to figure with such a big spread?
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Scottyb on March 15, 2012, 12:58:11 PM
In the deep south, spring does come way earlier than it does in PA.
The reason is, those states are closer to the Equator therefore daylight begins to lengthen earlier the further you go south. Therefore, while it is still basically winter in PA, it is full on spring in the south. So yes, there  more than likely is a 48 day difference in the timing of spring.

Just look at the difference in the spring between here on the lower eastern shore of Md and PA, and multiply that by many times.

For example, birds here really are not starting to gobble a lot yet, but in FL they are.

Plus , look how cold it still is in PA in the middle of April, and how hot it is down south. 
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Cutt on March 15, 2012, 01:53:50 PM
I know what your saying, but still have a hard time believing our birds are 43 days behind,  MS for example.

I believe MS started today?, and ours starts 43 days later. I can see a 2 week difference of 14 days to even maybe 3 weeks 21 days, but 43 days? I just don't see it?
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Tail Feathers on March 15, 2012, 01:57:25 PM
I'm about as far south as south MS and our season starts April 15 this year.
It lasts a month but will be well up in the 90's before season ends.
Gobbling stops about the end of April around here and gobblers are back in bachelor groups by the first week of May. :help:

But our population is declining and they want to save some birds.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Cutt on March 15, 2012, 02:06:58 PM
Quote from: Tail Feathers on March 15, 2012, 01:57:25 PM
I'm about as far south as south MS and our season starts April 15 this year.
It lasts a month but will be well up in the 90's before season ends.
Gobbling stops about the end of April around here and gobblers are back in bachelor groups by the first week of May. :help:

But our population is declining and they want to save some birds.

What State are you from?

From what you are saying States must set start dates on inticipated harvest? and not neccessarily the phase of breeding? Your State is starting late and wants to save numbers? That makes more sense, just as our State starts late and might want to limit the kill with our vast number of hunters? As they tell us it starts after the vast majority of hens have breed? So I'd have to believe some Southern States with early start dates are hitting the front end of breeding rather than the end like here?
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: redarrow on March 15, 2012, 02:07:45 PM
Keep in mind the fact that some states (usually Southern) have far more turkeys than the northern states. Therefore they can afford to kill more turkeys, bred or not to keep the population goals in check. Which is another reason some states allow multiple tags where as Michigan has always been one bearded  bird per season. We also have a lottery draw to control the number of birds taken.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: mnturkey on March 15, 2012, 02:28:35 PM
Each state sets it own rules about the Turkey season.  In MN like MI you only get one bearded bird a season, but in WI between MI and MN you can get two, three and sometimes four tags.
The state sets the rules for what their DNR thinks the population can handle.
If you are relly curious I would talk with the Turkey bioliogist at your state DNR and ask him/her why the difference.
Turkeys like deer are non-migratory so the states set the law, ducks and geese are migratory and the seasons are set by the fedral guidelines.
For hunters different starting times are a good thing, can you imagine what it would be like if they all started on the same date and ended on the same date, your out of state hunting would be a big mad rush.
Now if a person wants to hunt for 2 1/2 months he can start down south now and work your way up North for the last seasons in late May.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Cutt on March 15, 2012, 04:32:21 PM
I guess I was always curious as to why our season started so late as compared to others? From what I'm reading it must be to keep kills down here probably due to so many hunters here?

I always felt our seaon started too late, as with many past seasons, the last two weeks have very little to no activity. I realize one can kill silent gobblers too, but sure would be nice to hunt them a 2-3 weeks earlier here too.

I can say this with past expierence calling birds 2-3 weeks before the Season. First I'm not one who calls pre season in huntable areas, but have before on areas that are closed for Spring Turkey, but is open for all other types of hunting. As this is a State Park which is closed for Spring Turkey only. And the activity 2-3 weeks before our opener here is like night and day as comapred to the last 2 weeks of our regular Season.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: budtripp on March 15, 2012, 04:41:34 PM
Here in Missouri the season always starts the 3rd monday in April, and I read somewhere that the Conservation dept's reasoning was to make sure most of the hens were bred before the season opened. It doesn't really make much sense to me, considering our neighbors Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa have much earlier opening seasons and have just as many or more birds. Plus they can hunt all day, but thats a sore subject for another time lol.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Cutt on March 15, 2012, 04:53:45 PM
Quote from: budtripp on March 15, 2012, 04:41:34 PM
Here in Missouri the season always starts the 3rd monday in April, and I read somewhere that the Conservation dept's reasoning was to make sure most of the hens were bred before the season opened. It doesn't really make much sense to me, considering our neighbors Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa have much earlier opening seasons and have just as many or more birds. Plus they can hunt all day, but thats a sore subject for another time lol.

I here ya, it does not make much sense? as my original post was thinking all States kind of had the same reasoning with most hens being breed before the start? But there's just no way with the big spread of start dates, and partically with States like you stated that neighbor your State? Conservationist have their phases way off with one another, or as stated bird totals and hunting numbers factor into it more than the breeding phase, which they don't tell you? As I'd have to believe, the earlier a State starts hunting the more birds you will kill, the later the start, less birds?
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: stinkpickle on March 15, 2012, 05:02:51 PM
Quote from: budtripp on March 15, 2012, 04:41:34 PM
Here in Missouri the season always starts the 3rd monday in April, and I read somewhere that the Conservation dept's reasoning was to make sure most of the hens were bred before the season opened. It doesn't really make much sense to me, considering our neighbors Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa have much earlier opening seasons and have just as many or more birds. Plus they can hunt all day, but thats a sore subject for another time lol.

Kansas and Iowa aren't much different than Missouri.  For instance, Kansas starts on 4/11 and Iowa's first season starts 4/16, the same as Missouri's start date.  The 1PM stop time really sucks, though.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: budtripp on March 15, 2012, 05:33:57 PM
Hmm, some reason i was thinking they were earlier. Probably thinking about their early archery seasons.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: zach06 on March 15, 2012, 08:25:54 PM
Tn starts march31st and goes to mid may.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: mrlongbeard on March 15, 2012, 09:39:35 PM
new york starts May 1 and you can only hunt till noon. thats sucks
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: DirtNap647 on March 16, 2012, 06:45:54 AM
lovin were cin more turkeys in pa but waiting so long for season is a drag
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: Tail Feathers on March 16, 2012, 07:30:06 AM
I'm from East Texas, 100 miles north of Houston.  I live in the Piney Woods and timber production is big here.  The timber management practices don't agree with turkeys around here evidently.


Quote from: Cutt on March 15, 2012, 02:06:58 PM
Quote from: Tail Feathers on March 15, 2012, 01:57:25 PM
I'm about as far south as south MS and our season starts April 15 this year.
It lasts a month but will be well up in the 90's before season ends.
Gobbling stops about the end of April around here and gobblers are back in bachelor groups by the first week of May. :help:

But our population is declining and they want to save some birds.

What State are you from?

From what you are saying States must set start dates on inticipated harvest? and not neccessarily the phase of breeding? Your State is starting late and wants to save numbers? That makes more sense, just as our State starts late and might want to limit the kill with our vast number of hunters? As they tell us it starts after the vast majority of hens have breed? So I'd have to believe some Southern States with early start dates are hitting the front end of breeding rather than the end like here?
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: jakebird on March 16, 2012, 08:10:33 AM
Well, I'm a PA boy too. All I can tell ya is I've learned to trust the biologists. They've made this theire area of expertise and they know their stuff. Add to this that the majority of them are hunters like you and me. They would never intentionally steer us wrong. Scientific study of breeding and hatch timings, as well as gobbling peaks substantiate that our season is biologically sound, allowing for the majority of hens to be incubating when we open, which is desirable from a hunting standpoint. We would all love an earlier season, but who can argue with success? Our turkey pops are at or near all time highs, while several states ( missouri comes to mind) with liberal seasons and bag limits are seeing declining pops. We have a great thing going here in Pa. Could we have increased opps? Perhaps. But i would expect it in small, slow increments. I wouldnt want to sacrifice our excellent hunting if a longer or earlier season ended up having a negative impact on populations.
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: jakebird on March 16, 2012, 08:14:10 AM
Also, keep in mind that neighboring states have seasons that run very closely with ours...new york, ohio, new jersey, wv and va just a tad earlier...If PA is wrong, i guess everyone else in our region is wrong, too!
Title: Re: Reason for start dates?
Post by: MAKEemQUIVER on March 16, 2012, 10:25:54 PM
Im from Ky and our season is setup so that majority of the breeding is done before season opens also, and personally I love it. I think that it is great that we have very good chances at dealing with lone gobblers and not longbeards that are following 12 hens.

My favorite week of hunting is usually the first week of May, I have seen birds strutting and gobbling in late June before. It dont take much hunting pressure to make birds tight lipped, Gobblers dont stop doin their thing just because they havent been with a hen in a day or two.

It also allows time for the landscape to green up so that you have some foliage to help hide you.