What are some advantages of Hevi-shot over lead shot?
Pattern much better. You can use smaller shot (6s and 7s), while not sacrificing energy and knock down power. Most HTL will kill at 40 yards easily, where lead is questionable some times. It all depends on your pattern and if you are willing to spend the extra few bucks.
To me it's a no brainer. Hevi 6s or 7s over any lead shells, every day of the week.
They are heavier than lead, have more retained energy, hold a tighter pattern and over a greater distance. They take more weight out of your pocketbook so it's easier to get up after setting up and deciding to move. ??? ::)
Quote from: RAJ on March 09, 2012, 04:48:58 PM
They are heavier than lead, have more retained energy, hold a tighter pattern and over a greater distance. They take more weight out of your pocketbook so it's easier to get up after setting up and deciding to move. ??? ::)
:TooFunny: So true!
used lead for 30 year,killed a bird or 2 with them
as long as you don't try to shoot the birds at rifle range,lead will work
I have a same stash of HTL,but when it's gone it's gone,been doing so studying on this very subject
I won't shoot at a bird unless he is 45yds or closer,so why in the #@#$%$%$ am I paying 4.00 to 6.00 a shell to shoot at a bird that lead will kill just as dead
Dead is dead but Hevi kills them like 13 times deader !!!
In addition to the above, my main experience is less flopping after the shot.
They shoot farther than lead.
But I can't tell you how far.
It's against the board code of conduct. 8)
Quote from: RAJ on March 09, 2012, 04:48:58 PM
They take more weight out of your pocketbook so it's easier to get up after setting up and deciding to move. ??? ::)
Now, dat's funny, right there.
Quote from: mike103 on March 11, 2012, 10:34:55 PM
They shoot farther than lead.
But I can't tell you how far.
It's against the board code of conduct. 8)
A friend came over today to pattern his Benelli at my range. He had some inexpensive, Kent 3", 2oz, #6s as part of his collection to try. They yielded 115 in the 10" ring at 40yd. If that's the magic good guy vs bad guy distance, there's really no reason for Hevi-13 is there? If 40yd is all one's after, I haven't found a case yet where I couldn't get more than adequate pattern density with a little fudge factor to spare with lead given a good choke.
Given that, I wonder why the NWTF allows Hevi-13 in its contests if the organization perceives shots beyond 40yd to be unethical? I'm not trying to bash them either. I'm a member and even have my state's NWTF license plate. Maybe it's not something the leadership has fully considered.
Environmetal, Inc. clearly endorses the use of its Hevi-13 beyond 40yd in its marketing material. In fact, they have promotional graphics showing that their Hevi-13 #5 is good to 70+yd. Again, why is the NWTF allowing the shot to be used in its contests, if they don't want to endorse shots longer than 40yd? The mods here have said that someone expressing an ability to take long shots with 18 g/cc tungsten would be shunned by NWTF members at the national gig at Opryland. I agree that would be the case. I guess I wonder why Environmetal, Inc. and other HTL manufacturers get a pass.
Heck, the first lead 3", 2oz, #5 I tried through my Benelli Vinci and a Rhino .660" put an average of 104 for 5 shots in the 10" ring at 40yd. That's all you need to kill toms out to 40yd. Big numbers in the 10" ring at 40yd make us all feel good, but they don't do anyting except burn cash unless you intend to be able to kill well beyond 40yd.
Quote from: runngun on March 09, 2012, 09:42:14 PM
Dead is dead but Hevi kills them like 13 times deader !!!
This is true, but H15 kills them 15 times deader and Tss will kill them 18 times beader !!!
You can pull a shot at any range under a multitude of circumstances. To say that picture justifies
"no long shots" is illogical. Patterns become increasingly tight at close range and a miss or crippling shot is probably more likely at such because they haven't had a chance to exhibit any sizable diameter at those ranges.
I just don't clearly see your point.
Actually Joker H13 kills thems 30% more dead: H15 50% more dead and TSS 80% more dead. These calculations are based on #5 shot. :toothy12:
Quote from: JohnDoe on March 12, 2012, 09:08:28 AM
One advantage no one has mentioned is hardness. They are "much harder", so they penetrate and break bone better.
John
John, yes, this is certainly true. Even so, lead #6s will penetrate adequately inside of 40yd. Lead even has the extra fudge factor often discussed here as well. In short, the fundamental reason to use HTL shot out of a 12ga is to extend a rig's ability to produce effective patterns from 40yd to 50-55yd. The pink elephant in the corner is that Hevi-Shot has no meaningful advantages versus lead out of a 12ga out to 40yd. It's only beyond that range that its superior penetrating ability and superior patterning characteristics become relevant.
The 20ga is a different deal altogether. I have yet to find a 20ga lead load that will take me to 40yd with confidence. With the 20ga, Hevi-Shot #6s and #7s make a lot of sense. The 20ga needs the help of Hevi-Shot's superior penetration and patterning characteristics. I've found the 20ga runs about 10yd behind the 12ga. Essentially, I can get 20ga Hevi-Shot patterns at 40yd that look like 12ga lead patterns. If you want a lighter, easy to carry shotgun that doesn't kick a ton, then Hevi-Shot and the 20ga complement each other nicely.
Quote from: HuntSource on March 12, 2012, 11:28:13 AM
Quote from: JohnDoe on March 12, 2012, 09:08:28 AM
One advantage no one has mentioned is hardness. They are "much harder", so they penetrate and break bone better.
John
John, yes, this is certainly true. Even so, lead #6s will penetrate adequately inside of 40yd. Lead even has the extra fudge factor often discussed here as well. In short, the fundamental reason to use HTL shot out of a 12ga is to extend a rig's ability to produce effective patterns from 40yd to 50-55yd. The pink elephant in the corner is that Hevi-Shot has no meaningful advantages versus lead out of a 12ga out to 40yd. It's only beyond that range that its superior penetrating ability and superior patterning characteristics become relevant.
The 20ga is a different deal altogether. I have yet to find a 20ga lead load that will take me to 40yd with confidence. With the 20ga, Hevi-Shot #6s and #7s make a lot of sense. The 20ga needs the help of Hevi-Shot's superior penetration and patterning characteristics. I've found the 20ga runs about 10yd behind the 12ga. Essentially, I can get 20ga Hevi-Shot patterns at 40yd that look like 12ga lead patterns. If you want a lighter, easy to carry shotgun that doesn't kick a ton, then Hevi-Shot and the 20ga complement each other nicely.
Don't look now, but there is a pink elephant in the other corner. What is the deference between extending the range of a 12ga from 40 to 50yds by using the benefits of htl and doing the same thing with a 20ga from 30 to 40yds? Your making smaller and tighter patterns with the available shot to shoot further. Am I missing something here?
Quote from: joker on March 12, 2012, 02:10:43 PM
Quote from: HuntSource on March 12, 2012, 11:28:13 AM
Quote from: JohnDoe on March 12, 2012, 09:08:28 AM
One advantage no one has mentioned is hardness. They are "much harder", so they penetrate and break bone better.
John
John, yes, this is certainly true. Even so, lead #6s will penetrate adequately inside of 40yd. Lead even has the extra fudge factor often discussed here as well. In short, the fundamental reason to use HTL shot out of a 12ga is to extend a rig's ability to produce effective patterns from 40yd to 50-55yd. The pink elephant in the corner is that Hevi-Shot has no meaningful advantages versus lead out of a 12ga out to 40yd. It's only beyond that range that its superior penetrating ability and superior patterning characteristics become relevant.
The 20ga is a different deal altogether. I have yet to find a 20ga lead load that will take me to 40yd with confidence. With the 20ga, Hevi-Shot #6s and #7s make a lot of sense. The 20ga needs the help of Hevi-Shot's superior penetration and patterning characteristics. I've found the 20ga runs about 10yd behind the 12ga. Essentially, I can get 20ga Hevi-Shot patterns at 40yd that look like 12ga lead patterns. If you want a lighter, easy to carry shotgun that doesn't kick a ton, then Hevi-Shot and the 20ga complement each other nicely.
Don't look now, but there is a pink elephant in the other corner. What is the deference between extending the range of a 12ga from 40 to 50yds by using the benefits of htl and doing the same thing with a 20ga from 30 to 40yds? Your making smaller and tighter patterns with the available shot to shoot further. Am I missing something here?
It's not about 50 yards but rather people posting less than flatering things and acting like either they are Gods gift to turkey hunters or in general chalenging the rules. We all know that fuge factor guns are a reality but but being beligerant about it is something else.
I for one would rather show Shanon some respect, and when the time comes to discuss 50 yard rigs comes around be able to do it, and do it right.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 12, 2012, 08:37:34 AM
You can pull a shot at any range under a multitude of circumstances. To say that picture justifies
"no long shots" is illogical. Patterns become increasingly tight at close range and a miss or crippling shot is probably more likely at such because they haven't had a chance to exhibit any sizable diameter at those ranges.
I just don't clearly see your point.
I definitely typed this to the wrong thread...
I'm sure some of y'all were wondering if I had become delusional.......... Probably on my way but not quite. Sorry about any confusion I may have caused.
I'm not going to put down the HTL because I have an 870 that I shoot the old remington premier hevi-shot 5's out of and I know for a fact that it will kill turkeys at distances far beyond ethical. When the five boxes of these are gone I'll find a lead load it likes and be done with the HTL altogether. The HTL is great for patterns, but is there any reason to have a volleyball sized pattern at 40 yards if you aren't trying to kill turkeys at 50 yards plus? I find myself shooting my 870 SM with lead more than my 870 shortie with the hevi-shot because I won't be tempted with the longer shots with the lead loads. Plus the lead is easier on the checkbook! I can buy two boxes of lead shells and still spend less money than one box of HTL. That's a no brainer for me. Turkeys can't tell difference between a $1.25 broken neck and a $4.00 one. Just my two cents, not trying to get a argument going, just stating what works out best for me.
Ok while I hope I didn't offend anyone with my above post I don't see a need to apologize either. I shoot htl and fact is I have an 870 that after some barel work will kill at 40 yards plus 25% fudge factor (you do the math) and do it all day , every day. Anyway htl is the real deal but you need to decide if it's worth the price.