As promised, here's the post that will mark the journey of my "old school turkey adventures" this year. I figured I would document this whole thing from start to finish, with pics where applicable. Hopefully it will be a neat thread to follow throughout the season, and look back on when it's all done. I decided to try and kill bird number one with two inherited pieces of turkey gear. The two most important pieces that is. My grandpa's Winchester model 12, 16 gauge and his early 50's M.L. Lynch World Champ Turkey Call. Here's the main component(You can see in the pics the butt stock has a chunk missing by the heel. That little bit of character occured when he fell off of a highwall hunting rabbits with his beagle in the 60's). She's been well used, and has lots of character, just the way I like her. Most of the blueing is worn off of the reciever, and it's looks more stainless than blued, not a safe queen by any means! She's a nickel steel model, with a 25 inch full choked barrel(mik'd at .640). 25 inches seemed odd to me, but that's what it measures, a full inch shorter than the 26 inch modified barrel that also came with the gun. The modified barrel has serial numbers that match the reciever, so I can only assume he picked up the full barrel later on in life, after his dad had given him the gun. I polished the barrel last nite, and it looks comparable to my SBEII's chrome lined barrel. The sights will be the plain brass bead(hopefully it hits close to POA).
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/Project16015.jpg)
So, to start off, I rounded up any and all 16 gauge shells I had in the gun cabinet and then ordered some others. Here's the breakdown of what I have so far (the hevi-13 isn't pictured, it should be here tomorrow):
Remington Express (Power Piston) 1 1/8oz #4 (3 1/4Dr)
Remington Express (Long Range) 1 1/8oz #6 (3 1/4Dr)
American Eagle(Federal) Copper Pl. 1 1/8oz #6 (2 3/4Dr)
Federal High Power 1 1/8oz #6 (3 1/4Dr)
Federal Premium Magnum Copper Pl, Buff. 1 1/4oz #6 (3 1/4Dr)
Winchester Super X 1 1/8oz #6 (3 1/4Dr)
Hevi-13 Duck 1 1/4oz #6 (3 1/4Dr)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/Project16014.jpg)
If the weather allows, I plan on patterning Thursday afternoon after work, at both 30 and 40 yards. Ideally, I'd like to use lead, since that's what "Pap" used, but if the Hevi-13 yields significantly better results, I'll use it in fairness to the turkeys. They deserve the most efficient death I can deliver.
I'll post all the pattern pics after I'm done shooting them, and see what you guys think looks best. Maybe we can take a poll on what load I should use, and make it interactive in a roundabout sort of way. Anyway, that's all i can think of for now, I'll update Thursday evening, hopefully with lots of pics of holes in paper!
P.S.
Here's the 16's sidekick, an early model(Pre-1958) 102(so early it doesn't even have the model number on it) M.L. Lynch World Champ Turkey Call, in the 3 Hole Alabama format. Interestingly enough, it might be worth more than the gun, considering the condition both of them are in. Call=Good, Gun=Used, with lots of character ;D
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/Lynchbox009.jpg)
Cool! I bet it will be an awesome adventure. Will follow. :icon_thumright:
Thats cool and the history behind it is awesome! I look forward to reading more of your progress with the gun and its patterns. I hope it shoots good for ya! Keep us posted!
Good Luck, Crappiepro
good luck with all of your testing
I have my money on the Federal premium magnums
Those Model 12's killed alot of turkeys back in the day. Can't wait to see the pics when oyu pattern it. I think it will like the Federal Premium or the Win Super x.
thats cool! :anim_25:
I like those Purple bullets. :funnyturkey:
I'm hoping the turkeys see them and think "Hey, look at that dummy with the purple shells, he can't possibly know what he's doing". I'm betting on the Federal premiums, or the Hevi-13 Duck shells. We will find out soon enough though!
i was having the same thoughts yesterday, but using my grandpa's old browning sweet 16 along with my wifes granfather's lynch jet slate and an old handmade box that belonged to a local also, great minds think alike huh
These destructive little buggars arrived today. They sure look deadly! I'll have patterning results tomorrow.
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/Project16026.jpg)
I tried and tried to get a good pic of how shiny I was able to get the inside of the barrel. This is the best I could do, and it's a crappy pic. I plan on running a bore snake through the barrel a couple of times between every shot, to keep it as clean as I can.(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/Project16022.jpg)
I have every intention of busting one with my Model 12 12 Gauge with a 30" full this year. Those Hevi loads ought to do the trick for you. Winchest XX Mag 1.5 ounce 4's are doing it for me.
Hevi-13? I'd no more shoot Hevi shot out of that gun than I would steel shot. You might get away with it for awhile, but you are asking for trouble with the nickle steel barrel, especially the full choke. Bulging or ringing is a distinct possibility when it passes through the choke. Lead only would be the best choice.
I am not shooting H13 out of mine either.
Quote from: gobblergls on February 22, 2012, 04:37:43 PM
Hevi-13? I'd no more shoot Hevi shot out of that gun than I would steel shot. You might get away with it for awhile, but you are asking for trouble with the nickle steel barrel, especially the full choke. Bulging or ringing is a distinct possibility when it passes through the choke. Lead only would be the best choice.
There will be about 3 shells total shot out of it. One at 40 to check pattern, one at 30 if the 40 yd pattern isn't good, and one at a turkey, if it throws the best pattern out of the 7 kinds of shells I have to try. If I have a lead shell that throws a pattern even close to the hevi-13, then lead it will be. I only plan on shooting one turkey with this gun.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss115/earljeff/KansasTurkeyHuntapril09014.jpg)
I made up this 16ga turkey gun Inc a extra full choke I installed. I shot a bunch of different ammo through it, Rem express 7.5 shot the best.
Well, the shooting is done. It might take me a while to upload all 14 pics, and list all the pellet counts. I will say there were some surprises. If I don't get the patterns posted tonight, I'll have them up tomorrow for sure!
IMO if you want to shoot a gobbler "Old School" than you should use old school ammo also.......Lead. Just my opinion.
Great to read. May you have a great success, and many memories made this year!!
I have a Winchester Model 12 16 ga. and it is finicky on ejecting the spent shells. It seems to like the Remington Game Loads.
Just might want to try shooting 2 quick shots to be sure.
God Bless,
David B.
Now this is truly "a must read book"' can't wait to see what happens this spring; going to be doing the same thing but with a winchester model 37 single 12 but I'll be using lead' we had a ol' timer who killed 24 turkeys with an model 37 but he used nothing but the old time paper shells that he had; he was on his way to killing the 25th bird using these paper shells but was killed in a car wreck while traveling to his turkey hunting camp; he was 80 years old when this happened; absolute true story.........rem
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on February 23, 2012, 10:26:34 PM
IMO if you want to shoot a gobbler "Old School" than you should use old school ammo also.......Lead. Just my opinion.
Maybe you missed this part in my original post.
"If the weather allows, I plan on patterning Thursday afternoon after work, at both 30 and 40 yards. Ideally, I'd like to use lead, since that's what "Pap" used, but if the Hevi-13 yields significantly better results, I'll use it in fairness to the turkeys. They deserve the most efficient death I can deliver."
I'm not going to take lead to the woods just for the purpose of taking lead, if the hevi shells will allow me a better chance of making the cleanest kill possible.(Note: not extending my range, but having a more even/dense pattern). If the hevi 13 has a pattern similar to lead, but not markedly better, then by all means I'm using lead.
Ok, here we go. First off, after patterning this gun, I now realize why the "Old School" guys had a self imposed limit of 30 yards. It's safe to say I won't be taking any 40 yard shots with the 16 gauge. Sure, it could kill a turkey that far with a couple of the loads, but the pattern wasn't dense/consistent enough for me to even want to try it. I was pretty surprised by the results. Then again, I had to remeber the patterns I'm used to seeing have 300 pellets in a ten inch circle at 40 yards, from a 12 gauge with 2 1/4 oz. of shot. These little 16 gauge shells only have 1 1/8, with the exception of two that had 1 1/4. That's a lot les than half the number of pellets I'm used to shooting. I'll post the 40 yard pics first. I took all the pics right after the shot, while the paper was still on the patterning board. I drew circles and counted pellets last night at home. I'll put the numbers up later today, for now I'll just post the pattern pics and see what you guys think. For reference, the white aiming dot was a 3 inch circle. Most all of the patterns(if you could call them that) at 40 made me want to puke.
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2040%20yds/Project16030.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2040%20yds/Project16031.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2040%20yds/Project16034.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2040%20yds/Project16032.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2040%20yds/Project16033.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2040%20yds/Project16035.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2040%20yds/Project16027.jpg)
Here's the 30 yard batch. There were a couple of loads that would be "usable" at 30 yards. I've already made up my mind which one I think is the best. Lets hear it from you guys which you think is the best. 30 yards is for sure my max with this gun, with little room for yardage estimation errors. So, I'll rpobably go with a 25 yard max, which allows me 5 yards for error. Here are the rest of the patterns. I'm missing the Hevi duck pattern at 30 yards. I'll have to uplaod it when I get home. Hevi Duck is added, I must have forgotten to snap a pic of it at the range, so the "after the count" pic will have to suffice.
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2030%20yds/Project16042.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2030%20yds/Project16039.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2030%20yds/Project16038.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2030%20yds/Project16037.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2030%20yds/Project16036.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/Project16.jpg)
(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/borden811/16%20gauge%2030%20yds/Project16041-1.jpg)
Here are the pellt counts in numbers. I tried to put the pics in order from worst to best in both the 40yd and 30 yd posts. All pellet counts are from drawing a 10 inch circle around the densest part of the pattern, regarless if POI was the same as POA.
40 yard results:
Winchester Super X - 18
Remington Express Power Piston - 19
American Eagle - 22
Federal Hi-Power - 24
Remington Express Long Range - 38
Federal Premium - 42
Hevi Duck - 56
None of those were really what I would even call a pattern, and none of them are anyhting I would even consider firing at a turkey at that range.
30 Yard Results:
Winchester Super X - 35
Remington Express Power Piston - 44
American Eagle - 61
Federal Hi-Power - 67
Federal Premium - 68
Hevi Duck - 81
Remington Express Long Range - 101
With the patterns laying on the ground beside each other, it was pretty easy to see what was the best. The Remington Express 6's beat everything pretty handily at 30 yards. That pattern was nice and even, and most of it was within a 20 inch circle at 30 yards. Even though the hevi duck patterned O.K. and was even, it didn't have the density of the express load. So, I plan on taking the Express to the woods this spring. Then I got to thinking. Would it be worth trying the Express loads in 7.5 shot, since my max shot will be 30 yards? At that distance the pellets will still have plenty of energy to get the job done, and the pattern should be even more dense. Yes? No? other suggestions?
Since the range will be limited to 25-30 yards I would try 7.5's. If they pattern well then I would consider using them.