I hear and read a lot about hevi shot products, but not much on the winchester extended range. Is the hevi shot product just a better load? Fill me in.
I prefer winchester extended range. they are great shells.
Paper punchers prefer Hevi shot, turkey killers prefer Ext Range.
I sold all my H-13 3 1/2" 2.25oz #7's (old lot number) last year and switched to Winchester Xtended Range.
Been shooting Winnies for quite some time then I went to their ext/range and I ain't looked back since. Might not be able to harvest a turk at 60 yds like some people with their shells. I like my turkeys up close and personel
JME--you will get ~20-30 less holes in paper at 40 yards compared to the H13 loads of the same length. I really wish Winchester would make each load 1/4 oz heavier to compare apples to apples.
I shot 2 birds with the 1 3/4oz #6 load. Both anchored immediatley and did not flop until well after the shot.
Though I am shooting Hevi now I am really contemplating go back to them because they were a consistent shooter for me.
Well, with the recent $10 price hike in hevi, winchester will definitely pick up some business I think. Also, with bps not carrying the hevi I also think they will help winchester out. I just picked up some winnie 3-2-6 lead loads to play with, for $17 tho. Almost at the regular hevi pricing. I did get a box of last years lot # hevi 7s at the convention today for $25. May need yo go back and get more....
Been shooting them since they came out, XR is a great load.
I tried them when I jumped on the hevi band wagon 6 years ago, they shot very comparable to the old white hevi's I ran them up against. I still have 7 or 8 of the 1 3/4 3" 6's left, i've carried them from time to time but have not shot a turkey with them.
I shoot Win Xtended Range 6s in my Xtrema2. Great shell, higher. velocity than Hevi 13 but 1/4 less payload. Wish they woyld make a 2.25 oz. Load! Better yet 7s!
They did not pattern as well for me as Hevi's did....probably due to the lower payload.
I really wish they would offer them in #7 shot, and up the payload. They could at least offer the #6 shot for us 20ga shooters.
Shane
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I'm glad they don't offer them in 7's. I believe 7's are overrated especially in the H-13.
The Winchesters are a faster load than the EM's take that into mind when comparing
I wish they made that load in a 10 gauge #6's I would be all over that
Yea, I wonder why they don't offer 2 1/4 oz loads? I've heard the ext range is easier on your barrel than the he I shot. Any truth to that?
I love them, They shoot great out of both my SBEII and 870. They don't have as high numbers because they have a 1/4 oz less shot in them,but I'd rather have the higher velocities and live with a fewer hits on paper. The other thing is there way more consistent shot to shot.
Quote from: delta hunter on February 11, 2012, 08:44:48 AM
...I've heard the ext range is easier on your barrel than the he I shot. Any truth to that?
I believe it's because XRHD's use a different alloy than Hevi-shot. Something like tungsten-tin-copper, instead of tungsten-iron-nickel...or something like that. Anybody else have the details on that?
Quote from: nyhunter on February 11, 2012, 10:27:30 AM
...but I'd rather have the higher velocities and live with a fewer hits on paper...
I'm the opposite. With the penetration advantage of hard HTL pellets, I'd sacrifice some velocity for higher pellet counts.
I was told today by the product manager at the convention that they are not interested in making a #7 load because they don't have the down range energy to kill. I also asked about upping the payload and he told me that they were in the middle...made the speed and still has s good payload ....like a good middle ground compromise more or less. They basically are not interested in changing anything with that load. He said he may look into 7s if forced to by the market, but doubtful.
Good... No sense in messing with an outstanding overall killing shell.
7's not needed or wanted!
How can you say HTL #7s are not any good and dont kill? The out perform and penetrate lead #6s at an equal velocity!!! Plus one heck of a payload. Remember, we just need to break skulls and neck bones to kill birds.
True, if any lead loads would hold the pattern that the HTL stuff will, i would keep on with lead. Truth is tho, HTL kills with more dense patterns.
Quote from: K9Doc on February 11, 2012, 04:13:15 PM
How can you say HTL #7s are not any good and dont kill? The out perform and penetrate lead #6s at an equal velocity!!! Plus one heck of a payload. Remember, we just need to break skulls and neck bones to kill birds.
True, if any lead loads would hold the pattern that the HTL stuff will, i would keep on with lead. Truth is tho, HTL kills with more dense patterns.
I don't believe that anyone said that 7's don't kill. Just some of people believe that 7's are overrated and definitely do not penetrate better than 6's. I for one am one of those believers that decided that H-13 #7 is pushing the envelop and choose to take a step back and go with 6's and Winchester happens to fit that bill quite nicely!
bird
That's more or less what they said too bird...and im on the fence with the 7s myself...I can't lie. My only reason is that I've killed too many with the nitros that have mostly 7s in em. I am shooting them now, but am definitely looking towards the winchester loads. We will see what they do. Nobody bashing either company here for what they do...just different opinions. They both are very reputable to me
Quote from: bird on February 11, 2012, 03:16:10 PM
Good... No sense in messing with an outstanding overall killing shell.
7's not needed or wanted!
Perhaps not needed, but definitely wanted. ;)
Quote from: fountain2 on February 11, 2012, 02:58:30 PM
I was told today by the product manager at the convention that they are not interested in making a #7 load because they don't have the down range energy to kill...
I'd say that product manager has never tried 'em. If he ever pulled a low-flying #7 pellet (from a pokey 1090fps load) from under skin on the OPPOSITE side of a turkey's breast at 38 yards, he'd probably have a much different opinion about them not having enough down range energy to kill. :D
U prolly right there...bet he's never tried em tho given the circumstances. I hit the hevi 13 rep up about the folded in crimps on the hevi loads and he said send em back. Also asked about the buffer leaking and never git an honest straight answer on that.
I shot XRs for several years until I did some extensive testing. In my 870sm the XR 5s and 6s paled in comparison to Hevi 6s and Magblends. I sold all my XRs and stocked up on Hevi.
I shoot alot of the Winchester EXRange #5's and 6's myself
very even and consistent patterns,you don't have to worry about the lot #'s and possible changes from year to year by the" other guy"
3 Shots in the field
3 turkeys on the ground with the WInchesters
Nuff said for us. Just an opinion, but................................
:funnyturkey:
win xrhd #6's are a very good htl loads. They are great turkey killers for sure. They would be better if they were #7's though. Those babies are smoking at over 1300fps (you know it when you touch one off) and would kill out as far as you could hold a pattern together with the #7's.
I wish H13 would run there #7 @ 1200fps though. I know a lot of people have had good luck with there 1090fps #7's but they make me leery. They run the mag blends @ 1200!
A 7 shot load would be nice in the ext range and so would a 2 1/4 oz load in the 6 & 7 shot
I prefer the h13 #7s. I don't understand saying they are over rated? They have more then enough killing power at 50 yards. There have been plenty of pictures posted to prove that. Sure some have said they shot at birds at 40 yards and come up empty saying "there's no way I missed" but i dont believe it. They won't penetrate as deep as #6s but I will take the better pattern densitys.
Someone on here chronoed some hevi 6 or 7 last year and was getting 1200 fps out of them but I don't remember who it was.
Quote from: Gobble! on February 12, 2012, 05:42:50 PM
I prefer the h13 #7s. I don't understand saying they are over rated? They have more then enough killing power at 50 yards. There have been plenty of pictures posted to prove that. Sure some have said they shot at birds at 40 yards and come up empty saying "there's no way I missed" but i dont believe it. They won't penetrate as deep as #6s but I will take the better pattern densitys.
Preach it bro!
When the rebates stop, pellet counts that can be made on a live turkey head, quality control, and pure performance xtended range will come out on top.....until then others count holes in papers before season while others are scouting and working knowing that the xtended range is ready season is just days away!
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 11, 2012, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: delta hunter on February 11, 2012, 08:44:48 AM
...I've heard the ext range is easier on your barrel than the he I shot. Any truth to that?
I believe it's because XRHD's use a different alloy than Hevi-shot. Something like tungsten-tin-copper, instead of tungsten-iron-nickel...or something like that. Anybody else have the details on that?
All of the tungsten-based shot is very hard. The WXRHD is 110 on the Diamond Pyramid Harness scale and that's about the same as steel shot. It does not "give" or compress upon setback or when funneling through the forcing cone of the barrel or the forcing cone of the choke tube.
The wad and buffering used by all of the manufacturers is what protects the barrel and choke tube from damage.
Unfortunately for all of us, the price of raw tungsten has just about doubled in the last few months. We may find these shells much harder to find, if at all, and definitely more expensive, regardless of brand. We'll also likely see fewer choices in shot sizes.
Thanks,
Clark
Quote from: agturkey on February 14, 2012, 09:33:31 PM
When the rebates stop, pellet counts that can be made on a live turkey head, quality control, and pure performance xtended range will come out on top.....until then others count holes in papers before season while others are scouting and working knowing that the xtended range is ready season is just days away!
Last time I counted holes it only took 5 minutes so I don't expect to lose much time scouting
Quote from: agturkey on February 14, 2012, 09:33:31 PM
When the rebates stop, pellet counts that can be made on a live turkey head, quality control, and pure performance xtended range will come out on top.....until then others count holes in papers before season while others are scouting and working knowing that the xtended range is ready season is just days away!
This gave me a good chuckle. Ridiculous.
I shoot the hevi 13 magnum blend over the win because of the shot weight your getting 1/4oz more with the hevi weight
Quote from: duckaholic25 on February 10, 2012, 09:04:18 PM
Paper punchers prefer Hevi shot, turkey killers prefer Ext Range.
Guess that's why I don't shoot the Ext. Range then... just can't bring myself to go with a load that puts about 70 pellets less in my targets than Hevi-shot.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on February 14, 2012, 10:58:16 PM
Quote from: agturkey on February 14, 2012, 09:33:31 PM
When the rebates stop, pellet counts that can be made on a live turkey head, quality control, and pure performance xtended range will come out on top.....until then others count holes in papers before season while others are scouting and working knowing that the xtended range is ready season is just days away!
This gave me a good chuckle. Ridiculous.
X2...."pure performance xtended range will come out on top". Still laughing at this.
rolled many a turkey head with the extended range. started using them as soon as they came out. i use both brands now. to me its just a matter of what u like
shot them all but have had great success with hevi 13 7s in my A5. They have plenty of energy to do the job and the extra load is simply not worth debating. More paper punched holes should translate to more pellets on target=more chances of death. killed biggest bird to date at 64 steps last year (didnt want to take shot but he was in a field with numerous hens and my sneakiness was about to run out).
That's why I like the Hevi-13 #7 loads. Some say 6's will do better but when you stop and think about it your getting less hits with more penetration. But with the 7's your getting quite a few more hits in the head and neck which from what I have seen the 7's will blow plum through both sides of the head and neck at 45yds plus. I got the picture to prove it too. Now why would 6's kill better? I'm here to tell you they won't. Granted 6's will work very well if you got a gun that will pattern them well. But most guns will shoot the 7's a lot better from what I have seen.
Quote from: agturkey on February 14, 2012, 09:33:31 PM
When the rebates stop, pellet counts that can be made on a live turkey head, quality control, and pure performance xtended range will come out on top.....until then others count holes in papers before season while others are scouting and working knowing that the xtended range is ready season is just days away!
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj204/number6doug/smileys/Kool-AidManjpg.jpg)
Is the winchester extended range different from the supreme high velocity shells?
And I wanted to say that there isn't a thing wrong with using 6's. And anyone who chooses to shoot 6's more power to you. There is no doubt about it they will definately penetrate better than the 7's. But I do think the 7's get a bad rap when people try and say they don't have the power to do the job at farther yardages like past 40yds when they are actually just assuming this and have not seen what the reality of what the 7's will do to a bird at even 45yds. Again I have. And so have a lot of others who choose to shoot them. It's kind of like talking about patterns and offering choke advice based off of hearsay when you have no known experience about that particular gun or choke. Your really doing nothing more than distorting the facts on what the actual truth is. Like I said, don't take my word for it. Go shoot a gobbler with them and see how devastating they really are even out past 40yds. I'm here to tell you the 7's are overkill at 40yds and then some. And that is not pointing the finger at anyone inparticular here. But again at least give them a try before you doubt them. Hell I was the biggest doubter at first, but I thought I would at least give them a try. I liked what I seen on paper, but I wanted to see how they actually worked on the real thing. And I'm here to tell you forget about the hearsay. They are the real McCoy.
Hey Brad.... Not hearsay but from actually one on one experience. I say that H-13 7's Do Not have the knock down power of 6's and I for one am disappointed in their performance in the field.
Quote from: bird on February 15, 2012, 08:07:20 PM
Hey Brad.... Not hearsay but from actually one on one experience. I say that H-13 7's Do Not have the knock down power of 6's and I for one am disappointed in their performance in the field.
x2
Shot three last year with hevi 7s and ended up ringing two of the three necks.
Well Al I was shocked at the killing power that the Hevi-13 3" 2oz #7's had after I performed the autopsy. The autopsy reveals total destruction at 45yds plus. The bird ain't going to knock the killing power of those 7's I don't believe. Like I said I had my doubts at first, but not anymore.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF0039_Medium_.jpg)
And again look at the destruction. This is what I seen with my own eyes. I show this not to argue, but to show the actual proof for others that may doubt the 7's killing power.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0070_Small_2_.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0073_Small_.jpg)
There you can see complete pass thrus at 45yds plus and believe me it was at least that and then some.
Look at all those shot on the top of the breast and the damage it caused in the neck area.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0066_Small_2_.jpg)
And this was the opposite side of the breast as you can clearly see from the other picture above where the shot blew plum through the breast and some exited as you can clearly see here.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0069_Small_.jpg)
And that's not counting the 23 or 24 shot that I dug out of the breast that were deeply embedded.
Now with results like this what more could a guy want? I know another guy that killed 2 last year with the 7's at about the same distance and his autopsy was about like mine.
And that was just a 3" load out of my 870. Just think what it would have done to this bird with my 835 and the Star Dot choke with a 3.5" load that would put a lot more shot in the bird no question.
I started with Winchester lead loads, so the move to extended range just made sense when Winchester came out with them. I never went to Hevi because I never had a choke rated for it. Now that I got a jelly head, I'm willing to try them out.....but will happily shoot Winchester XRHD any day of the week.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on February 15, 2012, 07:27:08 PM
And I wanted to say that there isn't a thing wrong with using 6's. And anyone who chooses to shoot 6's more power to you. There is no doubt about it they will definately penetrate better than the 7's. But I do think the 7's get a bad rap when people try and say they don't have the power to do the job at farther yardages like past 40yds when they are actually just assuming this and have not seen what the reality of what the 7's will do to a bird at even 45yds. Again I have. And so have a lot of others who choose to shoot them. It's kind of like talking about patterns and offering choke advice based off of hearsay when you have no known experience about that particular gun or choke. Your really doing nothing more than distorting the facts on what the actual truth is. Like I said, don't take my word for it. Go shoot a gobbler with them and see how devastating they really are even out past 40yds. I'm here to tell you the 7's are overkill at 40yds and then some. And that is not pointing the finger at anyone inparticular here. But again at least give them a try before you doubt them. Hell I was the biggest doubter at first, but I thought I would at least give them a try. I liked what I seen on paper, but I wanted to see how they actually worked on the real thing. And I'm here to tell you forget about the hearsay. They are the real McCoy.
Please explain me having to choke out a fello hunting club members bird after he shot it at 35 yds...with 7s idk I just won't drink the cool aid after that adventure
Luke95
Quote from: Luke95 on February 15, 2012, 10:49:01 PM
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on February 15, 2012, 07:27:08 PM
And I wanted to say that there isn't a thing wrong with using 6's. And anyone who chooses to shoot 6's more power to you. There is no doubt about it they will definately penetrate better than the 7's. But I do think the 7's get a bad rap when people try and say they don't have the power to do the job at farther yardages like past 40yds when they are actually just assuming this and have not seen what the reality of what the 7's will do to a bird at even 45yds. Again I have. And so have a lot of others who choose to shoot them. It's kind of like talking about patterns and offering choke advice based off of hearsay when you have no known experience about that particular gun or choke. Your really doing nothing more than distorting the facts on what the actual truth is. Like I said, don't take my word for it. Go shoot a gobbler with them and see how devastating they really are even out past 40yds. I'm here to tell you the 7's are overkill at 40yds and then some. And that is not pointing the finger at anyone inparticular here. But again at least give them a try before you doubt them. Hell I was the biggest doubter at first, but I thought I would at least give them a try. I liked what I seen on paper, but I wanted to see how they actually worked on the real thing. And I'm here to tell you forget about the hearsay. They are the real McCoy.
Please explain me having to choke out a fello hunting club members bird after he shot it at 35 yds...with 7s idk I just won't drink the cool aid after that adventure
Luke95
Luke,
If you hit a bird with a well centered good shooting pattern of 7's on the head and neck of a bird at 35yds, there will be no need to choke.
Quote from: bird on February 15, 2012, 08:07:20 PM
Hey Brad.... Not hearsay but from actually one on one experience. I say that H-13 7's Do Not have the knock down power of 6's and I for one am disappointed in their performance in the field.
There have been enough memebers on here that I respect having this problem. That's why I have stayed with the 6's. Especially those Magic Lot#s that put up the big numbers. Anyone who has opened a Hevi shell has seen the difference in shot size. When you are putting up 340+ with hevi 7's, IMO there are most likely alot of 7+ sizes. There has to be, due to the weight of the shot, 2.25 = 2.25oz. I alway joke about the 6's being the original Magnum Blend. There are definately some 5,6,7's in there, probably with a few 4's and 8's. I believe that 12/cc #7's are borderline enough, 8's are not. Cut any hevi shell open and i promise you'll find smaller shot than advertised.
With all that being said. To the original poster, I prefer Hevi 6's over Ext. 6's only for the payload(pattern). I haven't been biiten by any quality issues yet. The ext range have more velocity and are without a doubt more consistent. they will both put approx. 200 in a 10" circle, so there is no escape with either.
One more thing is availability. I have had to order Hevi-shot on single sizes, Ex. 6's. I can pick up Ext. range at BPS.
Quote from: Luke95 on February 15, 2012, 10:49:01 PM
Please explain me having to choke out a fello hunting club members bird after he shot it at 35 yds...with 7s idk I just won't drink the cool aid after that adventure
Luke95
That sounds more like a marginal hit to me. At 35 yards, I have copperplated lead #7.5's that break necks.
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 16, 2012, 10:58:41 AM
Quote from: Luke95 on February 15, 2012, 10:49:01 PM
Please explain me having to choke out a fello hunting club members bird after he shot it at 35 yds...with 7s idk I just won't drink the cool aid after that adventure
Luke95
That sounds more like a marginal hit to me. At 35 yards, I have copperplated lead #7.5's that break necks.
x2
Another bird that was smoked with the Hevi-13 #7's by a guy on here who I enjoy talking to. This one was shot at 47yds. Again look at the autopsy results. Now if that damage don't prove to you that 7's will easily kill a bird at this yardage then I don't know what will. Now this is not trying to promote long shots either, but take it for what it is. Even the coroner would say the bird died from multiple shot devastation.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=612543&highlight=hevi
I think I posted this last year, but this is one I shot at 35 yards with the 3" 2oz Hevi #7's.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn119/redrum_4187/Turkeys/P1020496.jpg)
Have not had that much damage on all of the ones I have taken at that range so I suspect some clumping or something due to the high humidity at the time, but they have always done the job for me.
If Winchester would up their loads to 2.25 oz I might give them another shot. Until then I'm sticking with Hevi. I would rather have the extra pattern density. I used to shoot XR 5's, then switched to Hevi 6's, and then to Hevi 7's last season. The Hevi 7's will kill at 50+ easily with the patterns they're capable of. No neck wringing involved.
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I gotta try some hevi 7s. Got a brand new box of hevi 6 I hope they let me trade in
And choice is a good thing. :agreed: