Hello fellow hunters,
Im new to the turkey game, but im hooked already. My first ever season was last year. I saw a few birds, but no kills. Last year I lugged around a super long barreled model 12 2 3/4 12 ga. I didnt want to run out and buy something unless I was sure I was going to make this stick. I love it and Im addicted.
Ok, on to my actual question. Im looking into buying a gun for turkey season. I really like this one:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-shurshot-synthetic-turkey.aspx
or
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-sps-synthetic-turkey.aspx
Now, I do know some about guns, but im no expert by any means. Those guns seem like they would be sufficient, and im really intrigued by the thumb hole stocks for manuevering the gun around. What do yall think about this? Also, 21" seems awfully short, will I lose maximum kill distance with a barrel that short?
All info and opinions are welcome, and thanks in advance.
Stick a .665 JellyHead choke on either of those and you will be in business. Bonafied turkey killer.
First of all, welcome to OG. There are lots of folks here who will give you the best information they have to try to be of help to you. It's a good place.
The 870 is just a hard gun to beat. I own and shoot several both for hunting and in still target shooting competition.
The SureShot stock has become very popular and many hunters really like it. The LOP is a little short for me. I bought a couple and gave them a try but I prefer the traditional stocks. It's really all a matter of preference and what feels best to you. I do however like the raised comb and the Super Cell recoil pad is excellent.
My experience tells me that barrels of 26" (or longer) pattern better, have an edge in retained energy due to some increase in velocity over shorter barrels and produce less muzzle whip. Having said that, the shorter barrels will produce killing patterns and are much more popular currently. Again, it's largely a matter of what feels best and appeals to you.
Turkey hunting is really all about confidence in your abilities and in your equipment. You gain that by spending some time at the range. It's important to know just what your chosen combination can do and not trying to exceed that.
A good even pattern in 10" with a good fringe pattern out to 20" at 40 yards will do the job. Especially with the shorter barrels, I would not get too hung up on numbers. If whatever you choose will deliver a good even pattern at 40 yards in the temperatures that you intend to hunt, you have a winner.
Lastly, I really recommend that you "deep clean" the bore of your gun, new or old, so that you can see just how well it can shoot.
Have fun and good luck this spring.
Thanks,
Clark
:welcomeOG:
This is what you need to do. Go out and buy any Mossberg shotgun and pm a picture of it to bird. He'll really appreciate it. He is the BIGGEST Mossberg fan EVER!
I have an 870 21" barrel with sureshot stock and a burris fast fire red dot.. currently running a jellyhead .665 chock
its light, really manueverable with that stock and short barrel combo, and produces every bit if a killer pattern needed. I love the gun
sureshot comes in pretty handy too when I slap the slug barrel and Nikon BDC on it for deer season
Quote from: TauntoHawk on January 12, 2012, 01:30:29 PM
I have an 870 21" barrel with sureshot stock and a burris fast fire red dot.. currently running a jellyhead .665 chock
its light, really manueverable with that stock and short barrel combo, and produces every bit if a killer pattern needed. I love the gun
sureshot comes in pretty handy too when I slap the slug barrel and Nikon BDC on it for deer season
So TauntoHawk, if I buy the top mentioned gun, would I definitely have to buy another choke? Also, I would have to buy sights as well i think. How far would you be confident in taking a shot with your current set up?
The first shotgun would indeed need some sights if your point of aim is different than point of impact. Usually they are different with different load and choke combinations. The second gun already has adjustable sights on it so it would not need any sights unless you wanted to mount a red dot or scope, in which it is tapped for already.
There is nothing wrong with patterning the choke that comes with it. Use a few different loads and see what it does. If you use Hevi-Shot then make sure the choke is rated for it. If that choke does not produce a pattern in which you are happy with then there are good chokes to try, such as Primos JellyHead and a Pure Gold.
Becareful not to get caught up in numbers in a pattern. It is easy to do. The most important thing about a pattern is how even it is in a 10" circle. If you have 150 hits in a 10" cirlce that is even at 40 yards then that gun is a killer at 40 and in the right circumstances I would try 45 yards with it. Good Luck and let keep us up to date!
So TauntoHawk, if I buy the top mentioned gun, would I definitely have to buy another choke? Also, I would have to buy sights as well i think. How far would you be confident in taking a shot with your current set up?
[/quote]
When I first started turkey hunting about 5 years ago I got the Remington without the sureshot or any of that extra stuff.. hunted with the stock x-full choke, used the bead on the barrel and shot lead #6's..
Killed my first 7 Toms with the first 7 shot between 25-46yds, now I know that for that choke and ammo set up I probably got pretty lucky on dropping that 46yd bird and should have kept under 40 which is the preferred range of any turkey hunter regardless. But the point is the stock Remington got the job done fine.
As I went I added the extras that are all nice but not necessities.
The sureshot stock is awesome and I Would recommend buy the gun that has it, the knoxx stock is good too. They offer much better control and comfort when maneuvering the gun. Makes those long holds on that slow strutting tom that much easier and less fatiguing. I have extremely short arms so the extended fore stock is almost as important because I have to almost fully extend my arm to properly hold a standard Remington on the 26" guns. The gun also holds a lot better for my wife who I got into turkey hunting last year.
The red dot is really nice too but not needed by any means. I wear contacts and when I would close one eye and stare down the barrel at the little bead it tended to blur out my vision making it very hard to find a birds head and see obstructions. The sight allows me to line up more like a scope and keep both eyes open giving me a much clear and wider field of vision. Gives me a big confidence boost but wasn't cheap even at the great deal I found it for. $155
Choke. This is one of the cheaper and best upgrades you can make, after a good bit of research I decided that the primos jellyhead gets great results with 870's. I got a size .665 for under $40. I also switched to Hevi-13 shot and got both 3-2-7's and 3-2-MB. If I bought another choke it would be a custom one from Sumtoy or maybe an Indian Creek in a .660.
The general rule of thumb for maximum range is you want 100 pellets or more evenly inside a 10" circle.
Inside 10" circles I got
At 50yds with my stock choke and lead 6's I got 26 hits. (shows how lucky I got on some of those 40+ shots I never should have taken with this set up)
Mag blends and jellyhead I got 81 hits at 50yds
Hevi #7's and jellyhead I got 110 hits at 50yds.
So according to that I can feel pretty confident at about 50yds with the Hevi13 loads But with that said I feel best keeping to 40 and about 45 max in an open field. And yes last year I pass on an opportunity on a bird at 51-52 with the Mag Blends loaded in because I just didn't want to stretch the limits and risk injuring a really mature bird. I killed at 29 and 33, the birds didn't move or even flop.
Sorry for the overly Long winded response but im getting way too excited for spring, can you tell? To sum up the Remington will make an awesome turkey gun, get the sureshot if you can. Buy some good turkey loads, add an after market choke if you have the cash. Get out and Pattern, make sure the POI is the same as POA if it is the beads should work fine for aiming and find a comfortable range and call the birds inside of that.
Just like Archery.. Brag about how close you got them, not how far you had to shoot!!!
Quote from: CASH on January 12, 2012, 01:03:01 PM
:welcomeOG:
This is what you need to do. Go out and buy any Mossberg shotgun and pm a picture of it to bird. He'll really appreciate it. He is the BIGGEST Mossberg fan EVER!
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
:welcomeOG:
Ok I think you have got alot to read so I add to it. LOL Just get you a 870,535 or 835 and you will smile.
Quote from: CASH on January 12, 2012, 01:03:01 PM
:welcomeOG:
This is what you need to do. Go out and buy any Mossberg shotgun and pm a picture of it to bird. He'll really appreciate it. He is the BIGGEST Mossberg fan EVER!
WOW!! Talk about helpin out the new guy!! :TooFunny:
Oh yeah! Welcome to the forum!!
That Rem special purpose with the jelly head choke.665 is awesome. My buddy just put one on his and it shoots a really nice pattern.
I ve heared the shurshot stock will hammer your jaw when shooting a hevi recoil load. Also, my brand new 870 wont eject a 2 3/4" shell after shooting it.
Quote from: CASH on January 12, 2012, 01:03:01 PM
:welcomeOG:
This is what you need to do. Go out and buy any Mossberg shotgun and pm a picture of it to bird. He'll really appreciate it. He is the BIGGEST Mossberg fan EVER!
Ha Ha Very Funny Bobby Boy
Friends Don't Let Friends Shoot Mossbergs!
Get a Rem870SM 23" VR barrel and a Pure Gold .670 choke, Burris FastFire III and add a Knoxx recoil reducing stock and your all set.
Quote from: bird on January 12, 2012, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: CASH on January 12, 2012, 01:03:01 PM
:welcomeOG:
This is what you need to do. Go out and buy any Mossberg shotgun and pm a picture of it to bird. He'll really appreciate it. He is the BIGGEST Mossberg fan EVER!
Ha Ha Very Funny Bobby Boy
Friends Don't Let Friends Shoot Mossbergs!
Get a Rem870SM 23" VR barrel and a Pure Gold .670 choke, Burris FastFire III and add a Knoxx recoil reducing stock and your all set.
:TooFunny: :TooFunny:
I have the 870 sps turkey shurshot in realtree ap and i love it. I have a jellyhead .660 in it and i shoot H-13 3.5" 2.25oz #6. when my son use's it he shoots H-13 3" #6s both work very well. This will make you a great gun that will last a long time.
Either of those will kill turkeys just fine.
Just make sure you build into your budget enough for one or two after market chokes. That will make more difference than any difference remington built into those two guns.
Adjustable sights or a mounted optic are really a must. Your turkey shotgun is more like a rifle and needs to be set up and shot like one. That is what I would keep in mind.
Even Bird would rather have a Mossberg with good sights and the right choke than a remington with all the bells and whistles that scattered a bad pattern to somewhere other than where he's aiming.
Quote from: Canyonhunter on January 12, 2012, 08:16:01 PM
I ve heared the shurshot stock will hammer your jaw when shooting a hevi recoil load. Also, my brand new 870 wont eject a 2 3/4" shell after shooting it.
I would say alot of stocks will hammer your jaw with a heavy turkey load. I know my 870 did with the factory and knoxx stock. I now have the sureshot stock and like it better than any I've tried. As far as the new 870 not ejecting the shells I would say polish the chamber or put some rounds through it. Mine was like that when new, and I know others with the same complaint. It just needs broke in. I love my 870 for turkeys.
Either one a Turkey Gun Deluxe!!
Well guys I went with this one
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-shurshot-synthetic-turkey.aspx
Picked it up locally for 415 out the door. I also picked up some sights that I plan on installing this weekend.
Now, its time to pattern the gun and find out what kinda shot it will throw the best. I have also never done this before. I made up some targets tho, and planned on using the printable targets off this site I saw somewhere. Does anyone have some tips, tricks, starting point in doing this? I know there are prolly some other people who have asked this before, so if someone could maybe point me in the direction of a good post id sure appreciate it. Thanks for yalls help so far!!!
Get a large sheet of paper, 36" x 36", I use gift wrapping paper because it is cheap. Place a piece of tape in the middle and shoot at it at a lasered 40 yards. After you do this, find the most dense part of the pattern and draw a 10" circle around it and then count your hits. This pattern may not be exactly where you aimed. Some choke/load combinations throw of your point of aim and point of impact, that is why you use the large piece of paper and get adjustable sights. Now when you get a pattern you are satisfied with use cheap loads to start sighting in the gun. When you think you have it dialed in with the cheaper loads, finish with the shells you are going to hunt with. You want to shoot a choke/load combination a few times to get an average. Now if you shoot once and the pattern is horrible then just move on. Clean you gun each time, a bore snake will help greatly.If you get 150+ in the 10" circle then you have a turkey killer at 40 yards. The least amount of hits you want is 100 hits in the circle. This is how I do it, others may give you another way and it could be better than how I do it. I suggest trying a Jellyhead .665 and 3" 2 oz. Hevi Mag Blends.
Quote from: Jgspahn on January 18, 2012, 02:03:19 PM
Well guys I went with this one
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-shurshot-synthetic-turkey.aspx
Picked it up locally for 415 out the door. I also picked up some sights that I plan on installing this weekend.
Now, its time to pattern the gun and find out what kinda shot it will throw the best. I have also never done this before. I made up some targets tho, and planned on using the printable targets off this site I saw somewhere. Does anyone have some tips, tricks, starting point in doing this? I know there are prolly some other people who have asked this before, so if someone could maybe point me in the direction of a good post id sure appreciate it. Thanks for yalls help so far!!!
Here's what I do and what I recommend.
http://allaboutshooting.com/article_info.php?articles_id=302
I hope it helps.
Thanks,
Clark
mossberg 835 and a pure gold!
Rem. 870 is always a good choice. ;D
I'd stay with the factory choke. That way you won't be tempted to try and shoot too far until you're comfortable. Personally I use the Jellyhead.
Just remember to make sure you don't shoot anything other than lead through that factory choke. I had the same one in my 870 Supermag and it's not rated for hevi-shot.
Just got here on this thread and wanted to also add..................................
:welcomeOG:
As far as your choice in guns, you made a great one for sure; have used remington guns for over 45 years now and they have NEVER let me down; the great thing about turkey hunting today is the choice of shells that are out there along with the different chokes as well; it takes some time shooting your gun and shell choice to fine tune it but that's what is so great about this forum; alot of very smart guys here (not me) who really knows the technical side to the puzzle of getting everything one can get out of a gun; NEVER be afraid to ask ANY question that you may have;
Hope you have a very successful season this year and a very safe one as well...........rem
Quote from: bird on January 12, 2012, 09:07:14 PM
Get a Rem870SM 23" VR barrel and a Pure Gold .670 choke, Burris FastFire III and add a Knoxx recoil reducing stock and your all set.
+1
(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/Gophert/Hunting/Gun1.jpg)
Ok, so im going to install my sights and pattern my gun this weekend. I have a large piece of plywood and some paper im going to use. Here is what I need clarification on. Ive been told that some guns shoot #6 better than #5 or #4 better than #6 etc. Is this true? Will the difference cause that much of an advantage/disadvantage. Shells are freaking high for a broke college student like me, and Im just trying to get an idea of where to start.
Quote from: Jgspahn on January 27, 2012, 02:18:11 PM
Ok, so im going to install my sights and pattern my gun this weekend. I have a large piece of plywood and some paper im going to use. Here is what I need clarification on. Ive been told that some guns shoot #6 better than #5 or #4 better than #6 etc. Is this true? Will the difference cause that much of an advantage/disadvantage. Shells are freaking high for a broke college student like me, and Im just trying to get an idea of where to start.
Congratulations on all your choices. I'd recommend that you shoot #6 shot. It flows better and that big swarm of shot will certainly deliver enough energy to cleanly kill a turkey at reasonable ranges.
Lastly, I'd be sure to deep clean the bore of your gun and choke. I'd also clean the fire control unit of any excess oil/grease before taking it to the range.
Best of luck with your new gun and in the turkey woods this spring.
Thanks,
Clark
For your first patterning session, I would buy a box of Hevi 13 6s, H13 Mag Blends, and Winchester XR 6s... I would stay away from 4s or 5s
Take pics of each of your 40 yard patterns and post them on the board here. We should be able to help you out on which pattern looks best, or if you need to change the shell/choke combo.
Good luck and welcome to the addiction.
PS- I also have a few different turkey chokes for an 870 that I don't use, if you don't get desired results. I'd be happy to let you try them.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on January 12, 2012, 05:34:14 PM
So TauntoHawk, if I buy the top mentioned gun, would I definitely have to buy another choke? Also, I would have to buy sights as well i think. How far would you be confident in taking a shot with your current set up?
When I first started turkey hunting about 5 years ago I got the Remington without the sureshot or any of that extra stuff.. hunted with the stock x-full choke, used the bead on the barrel and shot lead #6's..
Killed my first 7 Toms with the first 7 shot between 25-46yds, now I know that for that choke and ammo set up I probably got pretty lucky on dropping that 46yd bird and should have kept under 40 which is the preferred range of any turkey hunter regardless. But the point is the stock Remington got the job done fine.
As I went I added the extras that are all nice but not necessities.
The sureshot stock is awesome and I Would recommend buy the gun that has it, the knoxx stock is good too. They offer much better control and comfort when maneuvering the gun. Makes those long holds on that slow strutting tom that much easier and less fatiguing. I have extremely short arms so the extended fore stock is almost as important because I have to almost fully extend my arm to properly hold a standard Remington on the 26" guns. The gun also holds a lot better for my wife who I got into turkey hunting last year.
The red dot is really nice too but not needed by any means. I wear contacts and when I would close one eye and stare down the barrel at the little bead it tended to blur out my vision making it very hard to find a birds head and see obstructions. The sight allows me to line up more like a scope and keep both eyes open giving me a much clear and wider field of vision. Gives me a big confidence boost but wasn't cheap even at the great deal I found it for. $155
Choke. This is one of the cheaper and best upgrades you can make, after a good bit of research I decided that the primos jellyhead gets great results with 870's. I got a size .665 for under $40. I also switched to Hevi-13 shot and got both 3-2-7's and 3-2-MB. If I bought another choke it would be a custom one from Sumtoy or maybe an Indian Creek in a .660.
The general rule of thumb for maximum range is you want 100 pellets or more evenly inside a 10" circle.
Inside 10" circles I got
At 50yds with my stock choke and lead 6's I got 26 hits. (shows how lucky I got on some of those 40+ shots I never should have taken with this set up)
Mag blends and jellyhead I got 81 hits at 50yds
Hevi #7's and jellyhead I got 110 hits at 50yds.
So according to that I can feel pretty confident at about 50yds with the Hevi13 loads But with that said I feel best keeping to 40 and about 45 max in an open field. And yes last year I pass on an opportunity on a bird at 51-52 with the Mag Blends loaded in because I just didn't want to stretch the limits and risk injuring a really mature bird. I killed at 29 and 33, the birds didn't move or even flop.
Sorry for the overly Long winded response but im getting way too excited for spring, can you tell? To sum up the Remington will make an awesome turkey gun, get the sureshot if you can. Buy some good turkey loads, add an after market choke if you have the cash. Get out and Pattern, make sure the POI is the same as POA if it is the beads should work fine for aiming and find a comfortable range and call the birds inside of that.
Just like Archery.. Brag about how close you got them, not how far you had to shoot!!!
[/quote]
Very very well said.
Ok so I installed my sights and patterned my gun this weekend. I used Winchester Supreme 3in 1.75oz #5's. The following pictures are from 25-30 yards, and the tape is about 3 inches long.
Sorry for the crude duct tape and plywood, but I had to use what was available.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/jgspahn/2012-02-05_13-31-34_526.jpg)
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/jgspahn/2012-02-05_13-31-27_421.jpg)
I was really disappointed with this result. I dont have alot of experience with these tight chokes tho. I was definitely thinking I was gonna get a much much tighter pattern. Im I asking to much?
Looking at maybe ordering this---> http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Firearm-Components/Barrels-Chokes%7C/pc/104792580/c/104717880/sc/104202180/Primos174-Jelly-Head-Choke-Tubes/741471.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-firearm-components-barrels-chokes%2Fprimos%2F_%2FN-1100237%2B1000004349%2B4294771199%2FNe-1000004349%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd741471%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd741471%3Bcat104202180
anyone?
With lead I would go up to Winchester XX Magnum 3-2-6 and try that. That pattern is pretty thin.
Quote from: Jgspahn on February 06, 2012, 01:53:29 PM
Ok so I installed my sights and patterned my gun this weekend. I used Winchester Supreme 3in 1.75oz #5's. The following pictures are from 25-30 yards, and the tape is about 3 inches long.
Sorry for the crude duct tape and plywood, but I had to use what was available.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/jgspahn/2012-02-05_13-31-34_526.jpg)
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/jgspahn/2012-02-05_13-31-27_421.jpg)
I was really disappointed with this result. I dont have alot of experience with these tight chokes tho. I was definitely thinking I was gonna get a much much tighter pattern. Im I asking to much?
Looking at maybe ordering this---> http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Firearm-Components/Barrels-Chokes%7C/pc/104792580/c/104717880/sc/104202180/Primos174-Jelly-Head-Choke-Tubes/741471.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-firearm-components-barrels-chokes%2Fprimos%2F_%2FN-1100237%2B1000004349%2B4294771199%2FNe-1000004349%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd741471%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd741471%3Bcat104202180
That pattern looks awfully thin, especially for only 25-30 yards. If I might make a few suggestions...
#1. Find 10" diameter piece of glass or plexiglass and move it around the pattern paper until you find the greatest number of pellets. Draw a circle around the 10" template and count the number of pellets within said 10" circle. Keep in mind the greatest number of pellets might not be anywhere close to your POA (point of aim).
#2. Adjust your sights or optic to place the greatest concentration of pellets on the POA. Think of your turkey shotgun as a rifle. It needs to be precisely aimed instead of pointed in the conventional sense.
#3. If that fails to put a MINIMUM of 100 pellets within a 10" circle at whatever distance you're patterning, it's time to move on to a different load/ choke combination.
#4. Keep in mind the larger the pellet, the fewer pellets available per ounce. For example, lead #5's are around 170 pellets per ounce. Lead #6's are around 225 pellets per ounce. #5's hit harder than #6's, but an average #5 pattern will thin out below the 100/ 10" threshold long before they lose enough kinetic energy to kill a bird. Try switching to lead #6's and give the pattern test another go round.
#5. If lead #6's fail to tickle your fancy, now we're getting into a new choke rated for heavier than lead loads such as Hevi 13 and/or Winchester XRHD and a box of the expensive stuff.
I bought the choke in the link I posted.. And a box of Hevi13's.. Tax money is burning a hole in my pocket.