I'm going to be patterning my new 935. I have a .675 SumToy on the way. I have seen all the different 40 yard patterns, but very few 20-25 yard patterns. My question is, with these chokes how close is too close to take the shot? I have a scope on my gun, so that will cut down on some of the error. If he's under 30 yards do you raise a finger to get him to run off a bit before shooting? :toothy12:
I know this is an opinion question, just curious on your thoughts.
i'd say if you know your gun and if you pattern your gun for those up close shots and know what it will do plus you have a scope
i'd think your golden
as long as you can find the target in the scope thats the peoblem i had with scopes
I find even 25 yards to be pretty tight on a turkey rig.
Think about when you setup your gun. You fire one round at 12 or so yards to see where it is hitting. The pattern is as tight as a baseball at that distance. You move back to 40 to see where the bulk of your pattern is hitting, then adjust your scope to hit where you aim.
No matter what, when we setup our shotguns to give us good numbers at 40, our closer patterns really pinch down. I missed a gobbler 2 years ago at about 15 yards because I wasn't holding spot on to the bird.
I guess the message I'm trying to convey through my ramblings is when they are close, or sneak in closer than you realize, lock that elbow on your knee, and aim hard for the neck. With these new chokes and loads, there is NO margin for up close and personal shots.
I don't really bother with the 25 yard numbers. If I know if he's below 40, put the crosshairs tight on the neck.
inside 20 its pretty tight
I actually perfer my shots at 30
Depends who you ask on here....there must be an appropriate "range" to shoot one. :character0029:...my avatar pic was frowned upon
Call em in s close as thy will come, hold on em tight and squeeze it off and watch head flop...know
It always helps to shoot 20-25 yards while patterning just to know what you have as well as the 40 patterns.
It's really all a matter of personal choice and knowing your gun, load, choke, etc. I prefer to shoot birds at 20-25 yards and won't knowingly shoot at one over 40 yards. Inside 20 yards has not been a problem as far as patterning but turkeys just tend to see you when they get that close, regardless of camo.
I did some work a couple of years ago and published some pictures of a 20 yard pattern beside a 40 yard pattern. The differences were a tighter center core on the 20 than on the 40 but both had good dense 10" patterns with an outer fringe pattern that would still allow for some shooter error. It really all depends upon the choke tube and shell you shoot. If your choke is shooting a baseball pattern at 20 yards, it's a high risk shot due to the normal excitement that happens when that big bird is out in front of us.
I don't have any experience with the Sumtoy chokes so can't really be of any help to you with that one. If you find it shoots too tight for you at 20-25 yards I'd recommend not taking a shot at that distance but I would not try to get him to run further from you. I'd just wait him out or not take the shot. That becomes a part of our decision making process each time we go out to hunt any game.
Lastly, congratulations on your new 935. It's a great gun that should give you lots of excellent service.
Thanks,
Clark
I shot one at about 6 steps one time in some TiTi bushes...blew a perfect circle through his head. blew him straight backwards and made him do a flip. He busted a wing and then went to flopping. blood was spewing everywhere. I dont normally like to get that close, but I had been after this bird for several weeks, and he wouldnt come out the thicket so I had to go in and settle the score.
Hold tight on them....it will be the size of a golf ball at 10 yards or closer....size of a softball 15 to 20. Everyone would probably agree 30 yards would be a perfect pattern and distance, but I take em how I can get them.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/delspics097.jpg)
As long as he is in front of the barrel and not behind it then I will shoot. I have my gun set up for those closer shots with a pattern of around 185 at 40 in 10. At 15 yards it is pretty tight but I would feel comfortable shooting much closer than that if need be.
This is funny. I just test fired your your choke looks like. I will try it a 25 to just see for how it does. I post both pic up for you before I mail. If it needs to be more open we make a change on it. I know the 835/935 is a bad boy. I have pic of 31/2 y's from last year that almost blow a hole at 30.
Quote from: SumToy on December 08, 2011, 08:36:52 AM
This is funny. I just test fired your your choke looks like. I will try it a 25 to just see for how it does. I post both pic up for you before I mail. If it needs to be more open we make a change on it. I know the 835/935 is a bad boy. I have pic of 31/2 y's from last year that almost blow a hole at 30.
William,
Now that's service, pre shoot and check the pattern, Thanks!
I think tighter would be better for me, it's pretty open in the pines here in the Black Hills so longer shots are the norm. I just posted this out of curiousity as to the thoughts of others. There has only been one time I shot a bird at under 25 and that was on the prairie and I could have let him go as far out as I wanted. I just had a gun at the time that max range was about 35 yards. That instance I had probably 40 birds in front of me and had to wait for them to spread out so I didn't hit multiple birds. Had one tom came within 10 yards of me.
Bh... in all seriousness, set the gun up for you hunting style. For myself I like a tighter pattern out to 40 because I get excited and once they get within 40 as soon as i get an open shot...im shooting. As bad as I wanna let em get close, I just can't seem to do it! Therefore I want the best patterns I can get to 40 with room for error. I hunt open pines too, so that is another reason I set up the way I do.
Setting up the gun for the hunter/hunting style is often overlooked it seems to me...but I look at it as being important
That 675 is nasty at 40 with the 7s and tight 20 and in.
Too close is if the gobbler pins you down with a spinning toe hold and asking you to say uncle. I like em close..If I miss, my fault.
Quote from: gobbler74 on December 08, 2011, 11:42:23 AM
Too close is if the gobbler pins you down with a spinning toe hold and asking you to say uncle. I like em close..If I miss, my fault.
:happy0064:
I like it. We going to some calls built and on the glass it will say call em and blow em up.
To me there is no such thing as to close. Thats the name is the game for me, trying to get him as close as possible. If I could get him to put his beak in the choke I would.
Hmmm. Would it be considered baiting if I were to tie a corncob to the end of my barrel and shoot him when he comes over to peck on it? Maybe start a company called Silver Queen Choke Tube Co.?
Cheers :you_rock:
FullChoke
less than 20 yards
If he sticks his beak in the end of my barrel, I MIGHT let him take 1 full step back. But that depends on if the wind is blowing or not!
I did get to shoot the gun today. I get the targets so I can post it and give the full lay out. I also think with the 835/935 this is not what you will see as season comes in. This was in temps of 40 and wet ground. So that will take away from this gun.
Quote from: SumToy on December 08, 2011, 08:26:25 PM
I did get to shoot the gun today. I get the targets so I can post it and give the full lay out. I also think with the 835/935 this is not what you will see as season comes in. This was in temps of 40 and wet ground. So that will take away from this gun.
Does that condition make the pattern better or worse? That's normal weather for turkey season here in South Dakota.
im sure it can take away some, and im no expert by no means i just wonder how much the temp. effects patterns
it's not like we are sniping turkeys although i'd like to sometimes
I know the big bore guns fall off in the cool temps. On the target world I have seen them go from blowing holes to looking like a plain full choke. Now you can do things to help and get them to put numbers but I don't because folks don't do it in the woods.
Quote from: 2ounce6s on December 08, 2011, 04:23:23 PM
Sure would love to be there when some of you fellas get around to the 10 yard muffed shot and hear the muttering "dammit I should have shot him when I had the chance and he was at 25-30".
I ain't as confident as you boys with all these "crackheads with binos strapped to their heads" turkeys I get to hunt. Of course I don't use blinds much...
It would probly be more colorful than that.
I missed one at 8 steps last spring. 5 shots were fired two different days on two different birds on the first two days of the season, Found out later my scope had give up the ghost and I threw it in the trash. The first shots was @ 25 yards. Clean miss, I couldnt figure out what was up. I had patterned with an open choke for close quarters. Found out later my scope had give up the ghost and I threw it in the trash. I dont blame the scope on the 2nd close bird. I shot behind his neck. I took out feathers. As he tried to get away he weaved when he should have bobbed and didnt make it. That gun was 10-0 in 3 seasons before last spring. When I got home and mounted a new scope he whacked 3 in a row. I needed that miss...good ole piece of humble pie.
Quote from: FullChoke on December 08, 2011, 03:48:26 PM
Hmmm. Would it be considered baiting if I were to tie a corncob to the end of my barrel and shoot him when he comes over to peck on it? Maybe start a company called Silver Queen Choke Tube Co.?
Cheers :you_rock:
FullChoke
Thats funny right there.. :corn:
2 seasons ago, the old man missed...FOUR TIMES in one day...heck in TWO HOURS!! :help: Now this guy is the best shot I know (Marine Corps Gunnery SGT) go figure. We get home and he goes to pull his 835 from the back seat of the truck and the scope...pops off in his hand! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: We locktighted (blue) the scope ring screws and the first shot at 25 yards was dead on. Went back out the next morning...same tree, same group of 2 year olds...dead bird at 42 yards. His second bird?...9 big steps from the muzzle of his shotgun. It was ugly. We both have had some trigger work done to our turkey guns so that they break like glass...reduces the chance of jerking the muzzle off target when they get stupid close.
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on December 10, 2011, 07:01:34 PM
2 seasons ago, the old man missed...FOUR TIMES in one day...heck in TWO HOURS!! :help: Now this guy is the best shot I know (Marine Corps Gunnery SGT) go figure. We get home and he goes to pull his 835 from the back seat of the truck and the scope...pops off in his hand! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: We locktighted (blue) the scope ring screws and the first shot at 25 yards was dead on. Went back out the next morning...same tree, same group of 2 year olds...dead bird at 42 yards. His second bird?...9 big steps from the muzzle of his shotgun. It was ugly. We both have had some trigger work done to our turkey guns so that they break like glass...reduces the chance of jerking the muzzle off target when they get stupid close.
That's a great story. You also mention one of the most neglected subjects when it comes to making your turkey gun shoot well, the trigger pull. We spend a lot of time on shotshells, barrels, chokes, etc. but very little overall on improving our triggers.
There are several things that we all can do to improve the trigger pull on any gun. It all really begins by making sure that the fire control unit (trigger group) is spotlessly clean and that the pivot points (only) are lubricated. Since most guns today can be dry fired without adverse effects, several hundred trigger pulls is recommended. If you're concerned about dry firing an empty chamber, there are several products that can help you there.
If you shoot a Remington 870, 11-87 or 1100, there's also the Timney Trigger Fix that will allow your shotgun to have a trigger like a rifle.
Some gunsmiths will also work on some guns to help polish the critical parts in the fire control unit to smooth out the pull, eliminate creep and reduce the pressure needed on the trigger.
Some gunsmiths will not do this work due to liability issues and we as ethical shooters and hunters must always be careful not to make any gun dangerous for us or for some future owner but a thorough cleaning and strategic oiling is always just fine.
Great post.
Thanks,
Clark
Clark, that's exactly what we had done...just a nice simple trigger clean up. Makes a world of difference imo when it comes to shooting tight patterning shotguns at a fist sized turkey's head, especially when things get up close and personal. :icon_thumright:
I let the shot go at the first solid opportunity I get once the bird is inside 50 yards.
I've shot em at 3 steps and killed em out at 65 but my preferred yardage is 40 yards.
I've killed'em at 10-12yrds before, just hold tight on'em. Helps to know your gun!
In a perfect world they'd all stand very still at 30yds....
I really dont like them to get inside 20.
Shot one at 5 steps but 25 is perfect in my opinion. Both my turkey rigs are scoped and I've never had a problem finding the bird. Most of my kills are inside 40 yards.
I really like to shoot before they get inside 20 yards. 30 to 35 is perfect. I have killed them from 10-12 yards to 45-50 yards.
The Patterning Board shows that 30-35 Yards is Ideal. 20 Yards or Less is a challenging proposition.
Quote from: anthonyjhallen on December 08, 2011, 03:32:32 PM
To me there is no such thing as to close. Thats the name is the game for me, trying to get him as close as possible. If I could get him to put his beak in the choke I would.
x2
As Tom Kelly says, " Once you let them get into the RED ZONE, your chances of killing them go down."
I agree with this statement, once you let them get inside 20yds it's too easy for things to go wrong, and he's not referring to the pattern of your gun.
The perfect range I believe is 20-30yds.
With my Rage 2-blade 5 - 10 yards is perfect, but effective range is further than most shotguns.
Quote from: Gadget on December 18, 2011, 12:57:40 PM
As Tom Kelly says, " Once you let them get into the RED ZONE, your chances of killing them go down."
Truth!
Quote from: allaboutshooting on December 10, 2011, 08:05:07 PM
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on December 10, 2011, 07:01:34 PM
2 seasons ago, the old man missed...FOUR TIMES in one day...heck in TWO HOURS!! :help: Now this guy is the best shot I know (Marine Corps Gunnery SGT) go figure. We get home and he goes to pull his 835 from the back seat of the truck and the scope...pops off in his hand! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: We locktighted (blue) the scope ring screws and the first shot at 25 yards was dead on. Went back out the next morning...same tree, same group of 2 year olds...dead bird at 42 yards. His second bird?...9 big steps from the muzzle of his shotgun. It was ugly. We both have had some trigger work done to our turkey guns so that they break like glass...reduces the chance of jerking the muzzle off target when they get stupid close.
That's a great story. You also mention one of the most neglected subjects when it comes to making your turkey gun shoot well, the trigger pull. We spend a lot of time on shotshells, barrels, chokes, etc. but very little overall on improving our triggers.
There are several things that we all can do to improve the trigger pull on any gun. It all really begins by making sure that the fire control unit (trigger group) is spotlessly clean and that the pivot points (only) are lubricated. Since most guns today can be dry fired without adverse effects, several hundred trigger pulls is recommended. If you're concerned about dry firing an empty chamber, there are several products that can help you there.
If you shoot a Remington 870, 11-87 or 1100, there's also the Timney Trigger Fix that will allow your shotgun to have a trigger like a rifle.
Some gunsmiths will also work on some guns to help polish the critical parts in the fire control unit to smooth out the pull, eliminate creep and reduce the pressure needed on the trigger.
Some gunsmiths will not do this work due to liability issues and we as ethical shooters and hunters must always be careful not to make any gun dangerous for us or for some future owner but a thorough cleaning and strategic oiling is always just fine.
Great post.
Thanks,
Clark
My dad who is in his 70's now has begun to have a problem with jerking a shot while practicing came up to me the other day and said he remembered back when he was in the military they taught that if you were jeerking the shot to use your middle finger to pull the trigger. He said it is much harder to jerk one that way. He started doing that and no problems now. Just a little tip that might help to try out.
Quote from: 2ounce6s on December 08, 2011, 12:59:42 PM
Lots of smoke gets blown in threads here on OG leading up to the season. Ask this question right after the season when there's a little more humility.....
:TooFunny:
This is true. We are all super man until season starts. Watch how many "help me" threads get started in March.
Quote from: Woodsman4God on December 19, 2011, 11:38:59 AM
My dad who is in his 70's now has begun to have a problem with jerking a shot while practicing came up to me the other day and said he remembered back when he was in the military they taught that if you were jeerking the shot to use your middle finger to pull the trigger. He said it is much harder to jerk one that way. He started doing that and no problems now. Just a little tip that might help to try out.
Another tip on combating flinching/jerking the trigger: When I shot handguns competitively, my shooting partner would hand me a .22 and it was either loaded or unloaded, his choice unknown to me. I'd work my way out of the flinch with his help, light loads and then go to the heavier calibers. Many people don't think they flinch until they discover they do when they pull the trigger on a gun they believe is loaded when it isn't. For turkey guns, the same could be accomplished by having a buddy do the same or alternate dove loads with turkey loads at the pattern board.
Best idea is what you do for tactical training. When you load a few rounds in have a buddy load it and mix in some dummy's. You don't know when thy are coming so you can easily know when you are anticipating. Also help you get fast (and I mean FAST) at ejecting a misfire and poping off a live one. good practice drill for several reasons.
I like the bird to come as close as possible. Coaxing a longbeard within 5-10 yards just adds a whole different experience to turkey hunting IMO. That being said, you better be down on the gun and not shoot at the bird while he's moving if you expect to kill him at that range.