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Turkey Guns & Shooting => Turkey Guns => Topic started by: camp man on February 15, 2011, 04:49:51 PM

Title: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: camp man on February 15, 2011, 04:49:51 PM
I've often wondered what the advantages to a scoped shotgun are for turkeys.... I can't come up with any. I've never owned one.... Just asking? It seems like low light would be a disadvantage, moving target would be a disadvantage, it would fog up.....
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: stinkpickle on February 15, 2011, 04:58:06 PM
A scope would have a big advantage in low light over beads.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: knightrider on February 15, 2011, 04:59:03 PM
BIG ADVANTAGE is eyes that can no longer see sights or focus on sights :hello99:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: hookedspur on February 15, 2011, 05:00:42 PM
Quote from: knightrider on February 15, 2011, 04:59:03 PM
BIG ADVANTAGE is eyes that can no longer see sights or focus on sights :hello99:
:agreed:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Basser69 on February 15, 2011, 05:31:50 PM
Quote from: hookedspur on February 15, 2011, 05:00:42 PM
Quote from: knightrider on February 15, 2011, 04:59:03 PM
BIG ADVANTAGE is eyes that can no longer see sights or focus on sights :hello99:
:agreed:

X 3
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: camp man on February 15, 2011, 05:35:48 PM
See, I knew there was a reason for them.... I disagree with the low light part. With no scope, just look down your rib and squeeze.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Crutch on February 15, 2011, 05:38:33 PM
I asked the same thing before the Crash, what did make sense was to correct a POA/POI problem. I would just hold over or whatever but it would be a useful tool to anyone who wanted it.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: stinkpickle on February 15, 2011, 05:56:05 PM
Quote from: camp man on February 15, 2011, 05:35:48 PM
See, I knew there was a reason for them.... I disagree with the low light part. With no scope, just look down your rib and squeeze.

...if you can line up your beads, maybe.  Just looking down the rib ain't goin' be very accurate.  ;)
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: bencattin on February 15, 2011, 05:58:05 PM
With the chokes we use today our guns shoot more like rifles. Using a scope lets me adjust the POI to my tighest part of the pattern. It also makes you keep your head in the right position. I use a 4 power scope and there is no guessing when the cross hairs are on a gobblers noggin.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: redarrow on February 15, 2011, 05:59:59 PM
I dont have a choice. After numerous surgeries on my eyes I am unable to see a bead at even 23 inches. A scope is an advantage in low light.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Gobble! on February 15, 2011, 06:00:10 PM
I use a .665 Indian Creek and hevi13 #7s
When a bird is inside 20 yards my pattern is super tight and with a scope I feel much more comfortable.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: HogBiologist on February 15, 2011, 06:01:16 PM
It allows me to see the small limbs in the way.  Using the circle reticle I can estimate range.  I can even out shoot my cousins while dove hunting using my scope.  :groupwave:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Stoner on February 15, 2011, 06:05:56 PM
I never understood a scope on a shotgun for turkey either. Your shots are going to be under 40 yards. Look down the barrel and shoot, does not get any easier then that.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: stinkpickle on February 15, 2011, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Stoner on February 15, 2011, 06:05:56 PM
I never understood a scope on a shotgun for turkey either. Your shots are going to be under 40 yards. Look down the barrel and shoot, does not get any easier then that.

Squeeze off a round thru a turkey choke at 10 yards and see.   :D
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: camp man on February 15, 2011, 06:13:30 PM
I have many times..... My first turkey gun didn't even have a bead on the front of it. I knocked it off in a duck boat years ago. It worked fine for me. I probably killed in the neighborhood of twenty gobblers with it before I upgraded.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Hognutz on February 15, 2011, 06:19:14 PM
If your gun shoots 10'' low and 5'' right, a bead is not much help. And some do shoot that far off. I own one. Also, when you put the red dot on a turkeys head, it is all over. Every time, without fail. It takes the too much bead/not enough bead, out of the equation, especially at long ranges, when the barrel and the bead cover the whole bird. Try it, you'll like it..Mike :icon_thumright:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: WVhuntEER on February 15, 2011, 06:38:44 PM
I will never hunt turkeys again without some sort of scope.  I love having a little manification to bring the target in closer.   The only disadvantage might be shooting one getting ready to fly but I really don't like to do that unless I have to anyway.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: guesswho on February 15, 2011, 06:45:32 PM
The only reason I use one is because all I shoot is three year old or older birds and the scope helps me evaluate the spurs before I decide to kill him if he don't gobble first.

Actually my eye's arean't as good as they used to be so the scope helps correct that.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: 3chunter on February 15, 2011, 07:22:07 PM
Unless you are very old and can't see....a scope is. For preference only.  A reddot maybe different but a true scope...I don't see the advantage. 
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Hognutz on February 15, 2011, 08:05:57 PM
Some day you wil..
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: new2turkey on February 15, 2011, 08:24:38 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: knightrider on February 15, 2011, 08:31:08 PM
Quote from: 3chunter on February 15, 2011, 07:22:07 PM
Unless you are very old and can't see....a scope is. For preference only.  A reddot maybe different but a true scope...I don't see the advantage.  
:TooFunny: im 33 and cant see does that make me VERY OLD  :goofball:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: jakesdad on February 15, 2011, 08:40:56 PM
While I dont use a scope I can see where it would help people with poor eyesight.I do think any sight is better than just a bead,and i used just a bead for a long time and killed lots of birds.But I installed a williams rifle type sight on my 20 and it helps greatly,and i dont really even shoot super tight patterns.I think the biggest advantage with any sight on a shotgun,scope or otherwise,at least for me,is helping you keep your head down and eye lined up.i think more guys look over the bead of a shotgun than they realize.just my .02
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: drum817 on February 15, 2011, 08:44:40 PM
I am 42 years old and wear glasses.  I shoot adjustable open sights on both my turkey guns.  I practice a fair amount before the season gets here at 40 yards....so far I've had no problems but if that ever changes I will not hessitate to start using optics.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: pittboss on February 15, 2011, 09:23:16 PM
I shoot a reddot scope for a good reason. I an left eye dominant and right handed so looking down the barrel to shoot with my right eye can be a problem.............. my point of aim is off to the left. The scope keeps me from having to worry about making adjustments in the field. I already have enough to worry about

pittboss
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Hognutz on February 15, 2011, 09:27:15 PM
Just a little heads up. As you get older and your eyesight gets a little ''challenged'', you lose the ability to focus on the rear sight/front sight/target, all at once. You see the rear sight, or the front sight and the target, not all three at once. It becomes difficult. Looking through a scope, (red dot in my case), you see one dot and the target. Very simple, very easy, and very deadly..Mike
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: knightrider on February 15, 2011, 10:27:53 PM
Quote from: Hognutz on February 15, 2011, 09:27:15 PM
Just a little heads up. As you get older and your eyesight gets a little ''challenged'', you lose the ability to focus on the rear sight/front sight/target, all at once. You see the rear sight, or the front sight and the target, not all three at once. It becomes difficult. Looking through a scope, (red dot in my case), you see one dot and the target. Very simple, very easy, and very deadly..Mike
thanks for the wonderfull news i already cant see and now its gonna get worse, geez thanks :character0029:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: WyoHunter on February 16, 2011, 12:07:06 AM
Quote from: bencattin on February 15, 2011, 05:58:05 PM
With the chokes we use today our guns shoot more like rifles. Using a scope lets me adjust the POI to my tighest part of the pattern. It also makes you keep your head in the right position. I use a 4 power scope and there is no guessing when the cross hairs are on a gobblers noggin.
Well Put IMO!
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: hobbes on February 16, 2011, 01:07:59 AM
I get the poor eyesight reasons, I could very likely need one for that reason at some point in the future, but I have got to give someone a hard time about the others.

Lets walk through this slowly.......I know some of you are old.  LOL

First......if I ask about range the overwhelming distance is still 40 yards and in with most saying I like em "close".

Second.......even though you like em close........you need to ratchet that shotgun down until you can kill one at 75 yards comfortably, and darn near shoot a single projectile out to 30 yards.  Although rifles are straight from the hands of Satan. (I may have crossed the line with that comment) ;D

And finally.......when asked why you use a scope..............."I gotta have it or I can't hit up close because I'm shooting such a tight pattern"


So...............I'm still slow enough here aren't I?......You've created a need for a scope at ranges that you prefer to kill birds because you've spent $500 perfecting load and choke combinations to the point that your gun isn't effective at your preferred range........Hmmmm!......I believe your logic is a little flawed.  Maybe that is turkey hunter logic.

I have to add.  The most recent HS video I watched raves about the scopes on their guns.  Yet, the video has the worst bunch of shooting in it I've ever seen.  I don't believe there was a turkey one in that production that had a feather left on its back.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: HogBiologist on February 16, 2011, 08:39:40 AM
Quote from: hobbes on February 16, 2011, 01:07:59 AM
I get the poor eyesight reasons, I could very likely need one for that reason at some point in the future, but I have got to give someone a hard time about the others.

Lets walk through this slowly.......I know some of you are old.  LOL

First......if I ask about range the overwhelming distance is still 40 yards and in with most saying I like em "close".

Second.......even though you like em close........you need to ratchet that shotgun down until you can kill one at 75 yards comfortably, and darn near shoot a single projectile out to 30 yards.  Although rifles are straight from the hands of Satan. (I may have crossed the line with that comment) ;D

And finally.......when asked why you use a scope..............."I gotta have it or I can't hit up close because I'm shooting such a tight pattern"


So...............I'm still slow enough here aren't I?......You've created a need for a scope at ranges that you prefer to kill birds because you've spent $500 perfecting load and choke combinations to the point that your gun isn't effective at your preferred range........Hmmmm!......I believe your logic is a little flawed.  Maybe that is turkey hunter logic.

I have to add.  The most recent HS video I watched raves about the scopes on their guns.  Yet, the video has the worst bunch of shooting in it I've ever seen.  I don't believe there was a turkey one in that production that had a feather left on its back.

Hobbes, here is my take on why "I" have a scope.  I was turkey hunting with my brother.  Gobbler comes in to 30 yards.  I was using rifle style clip on sights that were fiber optic.  At 30 yards I did not see a small limb infront of the bird.  I shot and he went the other way.  When i got down there i saw the small limb (actually it was a tiny beech sprout).  Next year I put a scope on my gun.  Same ridge, had a bird come 30 yards from me.  I saw him step into the open, i thought.  when i looked through my scope I saw a limb in the way.  I waited till he cleared then fired.  Dead turkey.  Had I not had a scope i would not have seen that limb.  I do not have poor sight.  I am 20/20 with great eyes.  I like to have the 2x magnification to see obsticles in the way.  My scope is 1.5x-4x by 32.  My logic is not flawed (not a stab at your comment) it is true.  I have a scope for a reason.  That reason is to help see and I can also use the circle around the + to determine range.  Basically at X range  Y amount of the turkey should fit in my reticle.  For me at 2 X  the turkeys head down to his beard should fit in my O.  if his head/Neck is in the O, he should be dead.  At 40 yards my front bead completely covers the 10" circle on my targets. And yes I draw a circle after to check pattern, but I also have one on there to check POA/POI.  For me a scope is a no brainer even at normal ranges.  I do not have a 45+ yard setup.  I still prefer a scope.  ANd the weight issue is not an issue.  I dont notice it.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Singlebarrel on February 16, 2011, 09:47:43 AM
I never thought I would have a scope on a turkey gun.  I even used to poke a little fun at the guys who used them - "who in the heck would want to lug a shotgun around the woods with a scope on it?!" or "why in the world would you need a scope on a shotgun - it's not like you're shooting a rifle at 100yards?!?". 

Then I got on a missing streak.  Finally figured out that when I shoot in a hurry, I often don't take the time to get my head down on the stock.  So even though my bead is on his head, I shoot over him.  BTW - This is VERY easy to do with a short-barreled turkey gun.

Then I tried a red dot scope.  Doesn't matter how you hold the gun - right hand, left hand, upside down, or side ways - if that little red dot is on his head, he will die - period!  Now I will never have another turkey gun WITHOUT a scope!   :icon_thumright:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: hobbes on February 16, 2011, 10:07:52 AM
 I dont' have a problem with scopes, tight patterns, or shooting past 40 yards.  I've considered a scope before, but never did it.  Also, I have shot a few trees/limbs in two that I probably would have seen with a scope.  Although, I did shoot a 3" diameter tree in two with a scope while deer hunting once.
 
Just getting my jabs in.  ;D
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: WyoHunter on February 20, 2011, 02:42:01 PM
When I first started hunting turkeys I used a double bead on the rib setup and after a couple of years decided I needed a more accurate aiming system which ended up being a Williams adjustable rear sight and front ramped bead setup. I used this system for 10 years until one spring while lining up a gobblers head/neck that things were in focus like they had been before. After a trip to the eye doctor and a needed change in glasses I replaced the open sights with a Bushnell 1 3/4x - 4x scope with a Circle reticle and have never looked back. When you get older most of us find our vision has declined. That being said if I had it to do over again I'd start out with a scope and be glad I did because you can only shoot as good as you see!  :icon_thumright:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: mudhen on February 21, 2011, 08:01:21 PM
Quote from: camp man on February 15, 2011, 04:49:51 PM
I've often wondered what the advantages to a scoped shotgun are for turkeys.... I can't come up with any. I've never owned one.... Just asking? It seems like low light would be a disadvantage, moving target would be a disadvantage, it would fog up.....

When I first cut open EM's Hevi-Shot, I laffed, and said this slag can't work  ???  Well, it do work, it do work just fine  ;D

Same for scopes.  You might think it's a disadvantage, but in the field, it usually ain't.

I equip my traveling gun with a Fast Fire because of all the variables that can occur on a short 3-day hunt.  I might only get one shot in those 3-4 days, and that shot simply must count.  Put the dot on the neck, boom...

Also, I think one of the great things about turkey hunting is how long a person can do it.  If scopes keep guys in the field, then that's just great by me.  I plan to hunt these birds until I drop dead, and if a scope helps me, I'll use it!

If I were a weekend warrior, or hunted one state with a low limit, I might not consider optics.  But I'm not, and I don't, so I do  :D

mudhen
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Fullfan on February 21, 2011, 08:24:37 PM
I have been chasing them since 1976, never thought I would scope a shotgun. Well about 5 years I scoped my feild howitzer ( X-2). I only hunted the gun late in the year when I was chasing field gobblers.  I love the scope, it matters not if I am cheeking the gun just put the crosshairs on his head.

But the one thing that I have trouble with is the scope fogging up. I have tried every brand of anti fog out there and nothing seems to work.

I make it a point to attempt to kill 2 every year with my 11-87 and the standard beads, and then the scoped gun comes out.  There is a time and a place for each gun..
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: surehuntsalot on February 21, 2011, 10:55:32 PM
non scoped

the day I need a scope to turkey hunt is the day I quit  turkey hunting
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Reloader on February 22, 2011, 02:06:31 PM
I have two scoped shotguns and two with reflex sights.

Advantages of a Scope:
Better in low light
Easier to get on target in an intense situation(Gobbler Fever)
Much easier for close in shots with tight turkey loads
No worries of getting down on the stock/rib or trying to line up the two sights on the bird like open sights or a bead
Much faster aim, place x on head and pull trigger :D

Disadantages:
Weight of tube scopes, that's the only disadvantage I can think of


I've shot moving birds with a scope, nothing to it.  I think it helps alot to practice quite a bit.  I grew up hunting whitetails with hounds and shooting moving targets with a scope was part of the game.  I also shoot alot with CFs, so that helps as well.  I hear of folks having trouble finding game with optics and it always puzzles me, I can set a scope on high mag and find a target instantly at close range just as pointing a shotgun comes naturally.  I do like a wide FOV optic set at around 2x for turkey just incase the moving target comes into play. 

The reflex sights are so quick I believe skeet shooting wouldn't be out of the question.

You just have to go with what you are personally most comfortable with.

Reloader
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: goblr77 on February 22, 2011, 03:33:14 PM
I have a scope on an 835 only because the POA/POI was off. If a shotgun shoots where I'm aiming I don't worry about a scope. Haven't had a problem missing birds yet.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: mossybird on February 22, 2011, 06:07:13 PM
Red dot. I have a Tru-Glo 30mm Red Dot scope on my Mossberg 535. Have never had a problem with it yet. Most folks on here dont like Tru-Glo's, but they did work on 2 hens in the fall. A regular rifle scope wont work too well on a shotgun in my opinion because a turkey gun obviously kicks harder than most rifles. I say a red dot, but when I get my 20 Gauge Im gonna use a Burris FFII.  :cowboy:
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: mcgruff1533 on February 22, 2011, 06:20:58 PM
I put a red dot on my Mossy 535 out of necessity.    The factory equipped fiber optic sights were not adequate for my needs.

I installed a Tru Glo red/green dot sight which helps me zero-in the shot pattern exactly where I need it depending on choke/load selection.

It's amazing, but some chokes and loads shoot entirely different places on a 36"x36" piece of paper.

Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: Gobbling Buck on February 23, 2011, 01:42:01 AM
I've killed turkeys with only a bead....then got more serious about actually paterning my shotguns.  After seeing how far off the most dense part of the pattern was off, I went to a red dot sight.  After having the battery die on the red dot....I went to a scope and will never turkey hunt without one again.....unless something happens to it and I can't get it fixed before time to go hunting. :o  I just mounted a scope on my son's Mossberg Bantam 20ga this evening.  My main reason for this is so he will be forced to keep his head down on the stock and not look over the sights....thus shooting high and ending in a miss.  This is just my personal prefference and in now way would I ever tell someone you have to have a scope or red dot to hunt turkeys, but they definitely have some advantages.  Good luck to all this season and safe and happy hunting.-GB
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: RustySap on February 23, 2011, 08:48:03 AM
Been using a scope on my mossberg 835 since 1991...
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: mike103 on February 23, 2011, 08:54:40 AM
Quote from: surehuntsalot on February 21, 2011, 10:55:32 PM
non scoped

the day I need a scope to turkey hunt is the day I quit turkey hunting


Must be either young or just have good eye sight.

I would never allow a need to change equipment dictate if I hunt or not.
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: bbcoach on February 23, 2011, 11:24:42 AM
Gentlemen,
When it comes to turkey hunting, what we need to realize is even though we have a Scatter Gun in our hands, we should be shooting it like a rifle.  We all know at close range, your pattern is the size of a baseball and you will miss if you don't have your head down and Excellent Cheek Weld.  At longer distances, we need to put as many pellets as we can in the Walnut size brain and neck of that Ole Gobbler, to dispatch him Quickly!

With that being said, I opted for a Bushnell Red Dot on my 835, to go along with a Pure Gold .670 choke and shoot 3 1/2", 2 1/4 oz. #7 Hevi's. 
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: redleg06 on February 23, 2011, 11:42:31 PM
Ive been effective both ways.

My reason for moving to a reddot is that I have a couple of guns that POA and POI didnt match up....

Evidently  I'm just not as good as some of you cowboys cause I havent tried looking down my barrel rib and guesstimating where the shot is headed.

Some of you guys seem to feel like you have some kind of "badge of honor" because you dont use a scope....   
Title: Re: non-scoped shotgun vs. scoped shotgun
Post by: S.C.C on February 24, 2011, 05:26:31 AM
Quote from: redleg06 on February 23, 2011, 11:42:31 PM
Ive been effective both ways.

My reason for moving to a reddot is that I have a couple of guns that POA and POI didnt match up....

Evidently  I'm just not as good as some of you cowboys cause I havent tried looking down my barrel rib and guesstimating where the shot is headed.

Some of you guys seem to feel like you have some kind of "badge of honor" because you dont use a scope....   
Red Dot, yes good point!!I'd rather use the beads on a shotgun any time,but that won't workout with the tight loads and extended choke most of the time.I've never received a "badge of honor" from the use of beads,but have received several "black cut eye's" from using scopes on shotguns!! :D